Mavericks get Brand for 2.1mil

[Texas Chuck]

meh not sure what everyone is so excited about--our guards are still mostly d-league quality and we still dont have a legit pg and we need another professional scorer. Now maybe we get West back and he and Collison can give us marginally acceptable pg play and maybe Roddy B can provide a consistent scoring punch off the bench in the Jet role but Im still underwhelmed. Plus we dont have a legit backup for Matrix (sorry Vince) so if he goes down we are in big trouble. This roster still has major issues to be resolved.

[Zki41]

meh not sure what everyone is so excited about--our guards are still mostly d-league quality and we still dont have a legit pg and we need another professional scorer. Now maybe we get West back and he and Collison can give us marginally acceptable pg play and maybe Roddy B can provide a consistent scoring punch off the bench in the Jet role but Im still underwhelmed. Plus we dont have a legit backup for Matrix (sorry Vince) so if he goes down we are in big trouble. This roster still has major issues to be resolved.

Crowder and Carter will probably play back up minutes for Shawn Marion.

Collison can ball. He might not have Kidd's intangibles, but he is going to be a net positive over Kidd. This guy is actually a versatile player and can score, and is great in pick and roll situations. That's the kind of guard Dirk compliments.

[MavfanAus]

meh not sure what everyone is so excited about--our guards are still mostly d-league quality and we still dont have a legit pg and we need another professional scorer. Now maybe we get West back and he and Collison can give us marginally acceptable pg play and maybe Roddy B can provide a consistent scoring punch off the bench in the Jet role but Im still underwhelmed. Plus we dont have a legit backup for Matrix (sorry Vince) so if he goes down we are in big trouble. This roster still has major issues to be resolved.

Collison is not a future all star but to call him D-League quality is just idiotic.

[Texas Chuck]

Collison,West,Dontae,Roddy,Cunningham,DoJo---thats got to be a bottom 5 backcourt in the NBA. Not a single even average starter in the group. Collison,West, and Dontae are all respectable backups and the other 3 arent even that. We need to add at minimum one more upgrade to that group and Id prefer two.

[DMavs412]

Im sure the mavs front office isnt finishing working on the backcourt. But, if they are, Id be fine letting that backcourt play out the season and hopfully find a star in one of them.

[HMFFL]

Im sure the mavs front office isnt finishing working on the backcourt. But, if they are, Id be fine letting that backcourt play out the season and hopfully find a star in one of them.

We should be able to count on Collins, but it's very unlikely that any of our backcourt players become stars, and right now it's a weakness that needs to be taken care of.

[MavfanAus]

Collison,West,Dontae,Roddy,Cunningham,DoJo---thats got to be a bottom 5 backcourt in the NBA. Not a single even average starter in the group. Collison,West, and Dontae are all respectable backups and the other 3 arent even that. We need to add at minimum one more upgrade to that group and Id prefer two.

Not a "single even average starter in the group". Ahh, Collison started 79 games for the Pacers in the the 10/11 season. He then started for 56 games last season for the same team. Prior to that? He started 37 games for the hornets in 09/10 due to the CP3 injury.

Thus, according to my math, Darren Collison has played a career total 215 games and started 172 of those games for the teams he played for.

Now I'd like to know how he is not an "average" starter?

As a starter in his nba career, Collison has averaged 13ppg, 5.9apg, 3.1rpg, 1.1spg, shot 46% from the field and 85% from the line. How is that "D-League" material?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not high on the kid but to say he's "D-League" quality is grossly misinformed. Obviously you have yet to see much of him in action and like a alot of people on realGM in that situation, you've judged the stats on a player and then decided that the stats from last season alone is enough information to call him D-League material. As I said, idiotic statement. Watch some games outside of our own team.

[Jinra]

Collison,West,Dontae,Roddy,Cunningham,DoJo---thats got to be a bottom 5 backcourt in the NBA. Not a single even average starter in the group. Collison,West, and Dontae are all respectable backups and the other 3 arent even that. We need to add at minimum one more upgrade to that group and Id prefer two.

I think you are being a tad bit too critical to realize what you have in Collison, West & Dontae. First I think it is important to realize that the face of this team has changed dramatically. You will see this team turn into a low-post beast with Dirk, Brand, Kaman and to a lesser degree Wright. And then they will fast-break and you will see less pick-n-roll and more kick-outs. The guards will be role players that will need to finish fast breaks and hit open 3's in kick-outs from the post. Just my opinion, but I think this group can handle that just fine.

[Texas Chuck]

Collison,West,Dontae,Roddy,Cunningham,DoJo---thats got to be a bottom 5 backcourt in the NBA. Not a single even average starter in the group. Collison,West, and Dontae are all respectable backups and the other 3 arent even that. We need to add at minimum one more upgrade to that group and Id prefer two.

Not a "single even average starter in the group". Ahh, Collison started 79 games for the Pacers in the the 10/11 season. He then started for 56 games last season for the same team. Prior to that? He started 37 games for the hornets in 09/10 due to the CP3 injury.

Thus, according to my math, Darren Collison has played a career total 215 games and started 172 of those games for the teams he played for.

Now I'd like to know how he is not an "average" starter?

As a starter in his nba career, Collison has averaged 13ppg, 5.9apg, 3.1rpg, 1.1spg, shot 46% from the field and 85% from the line. How is that "D-League" material?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not high on the kid but to say he's "D-League" quality is grossly misinformed. Obviously you have yet to see much of him in action and like a alot of people on realGM in that situation, you've judged the stats on a player and then decided that the stats from last season alone is enough information to call him D-League material. As I said, idiotic statement. Watch some games outside of our own team.

Im saying I can think of 20 pgs Id rather have than him--so yeah hes not an average starter and if he was say a top 15 pg in the league making basically nothing on a short term deal that Indy who isnt exactly overflowing with pgs is going to give him to us just to dump Dontae's not-enormous one-year deal? Of course they arent. I hope the kid can play but I think you are the one looking at stats and assuming the guy is good not me looking at them and assuming he cant. I admit I havent seen him play much but judging by all the talk coming out of Indy prior to and post-trade I feel comfortable in thinking we still need an upgrade. I hope to God he proves me wrong obv.

[MavfanAus]

Collison,West,Dontae,Roddy,Cunningham,DoJo---thats got to be a bottom 5 backcourt in the NBA. Not a single even average starter in the group. Collison,West, and Dontae are all respectable backups and the other 3 arent even that. We need to add at minimum one more upgrade to that group and Id prefer two.

Not a "single even average starter in the group". Ahh, Collison started 79 games for the Pacers in the the 10/11 season. He then started for 56 games last season for the same team. Prior to that? He started 37 games for the hornets in 09/10 due to the CP3 injury.

Thus, according to my math, Darren Collison has played a career total 215 games and started 172 of those games for the teams he played for.

Now I'd like to know how he is not an "average" starter?

As a starter in his nba career, Collison has averaged 13ppg, 5.9apg, 3.1rpg, 1.1spg, shot 46% from the field and 85% from the line. How is that "D-League" material?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not high on the kid but to say he's "D-League" quality is grossly misinformed. Obviously you have yet to see much of him in action and like a alot of people on realGM in that situation, you've judged the stats on a player and then decided that the stats from last season alone is enough information to call him D-League material. As I said, idiotic statement. Watch some games outside of our own team.

Im saying I can think of 20 pgs Id rather have than him--so yeah hes not an average starter and if he was say a top 15 pg in the league making basically nothing on a short term deal that Indy who isnt exactly overflowing with pgs is going to give him to us just to dump Dontae's not-enormous one-year deal? Of course they arent. I hope the kid can play but I think you are the one looking at stats and assuming the guy is good not me looking at them and assuming he cant. I admit I havent seen him play much but judging by all the talk coming out of Indy prior to and post-trade I feel comfortable in thinking we still need an upgrade. I hope to God he proves me wrong obv.

Hang on, so first you said that he's D-League material, now you're saying you could think of 20 other PG's in the league you'd rather have? Are you saying that any PG in the NBA not top 20 material on your list is D-League quality?

lol you keep saying he's not an average starter. 172 games started from a career 215 games is more than a majority of games started. He's started more games than he's come off the bench so far in his nba career. What are you smoking?

[Texas Chuck]

are you reading what I actually write? I never said Collison specifically was d-league. I said our guards collectively were--and that we didnt have a single average starter. Just because he has started a bunch of games doesnt mean he is a good starter--Devin Harris has been a starter for a lot longer than Collison and I dont think hes an average starting pg either.

Doesnt matter now because we added Mayo and if we bring back West I will live with it. Our FO has done a really solid job of making incremental upgrades and considering we arent giving out any long term deals its pretty impressive.

We still need one of our young guards to really break out this year but West/Mayo/Dontae is at least a professional rotation if they all bust again.

[MavfanAus]

are you reading what I actually write? I never said Collison specifically was d-league. I said our guards collectively were--and that we didnt have a single average starter. Just because he has started a bunch of games doesnt mean he is a good starter--Devin Harris has been a starter for a lot longer than Collison and I dont think hes an average starting pg either.

Doesnt matter now because we added Mayo and if we bring back West I will live with it. Our FO has done a really solid job of making incremental upgrades and considering we arent giving out any long term deals its pretty impressive.

We still need one of our young guards to really break out this year but West/Mayo/Dontae is at least a professional rotation if they all bust again.

Of course I've read what you've typed up. Personally, it's average quality. You state that our guards were all "collectively d-league quality". Dude, that means you included Darren Collison. He's a guard right?

Either way this entire discussion is mute now. You obviously havent seen much of the kid play and for some reason you continue to go on about Collison not being an "average starter" when the facts show otherwise. For me to continue this, it'd be like banging my head against a brickwall hoping the brickwall can absorb something from the facts I am throwing at it. It's mute, utterly pointless. Topic ended.

[SJSF]

AS a Sixers fan, I was a big Elton Brand fan. There is no one more classy or professional then him. He certainly is a player you will love and respect his hard work and effort. He plays very hard. Its just a shame that he is physically done. He can't get off the ground at all. And certainly doesn't have any explosiveness or quickness. He has a nice 12-15 foot jumper that is the only way he can score. he can't go over anyone. But he is a smart veteran that has diminshed skills but has learned to do the things that will keep in the league the next few years. He is a great post defender. He has the strongest legs/butt that keeps other players from moving him off the block. And he has a long reach and suprisingly for a 6'8 guy that can't jump, he will defend the paint and block a good amount of shots. He plays tough defense and has a nastey streak in him. He isn't a dirty player. But he will use his fouls the way the Knicks back in the day did when if you are going to make a foul count, he makes it count.

[Mac1]

elton is here for D. We dont expect him to be piling on the points.

The guy is built like a brick wall..infact muscle wise he looks more ripped then even in his prime.

[2011Champs]

If Brand is good for 20 minutes and 8ppg/5rpg and good defense I will be thrilled.

[Mac1]

brand is in my opinion having watched him quite a bit last year one of the top 4 post defenders in the league.

[mavfan12]

If Brand is good for 20 minutes and 8ppg/5rpg and good defense I will be thrilled.

You will be beyond thrilled then, he'll get to those marks easily

[2011Champs]

If Brand is good for 20 minutes and 8ppg/5rpg and good defense I will be thrilled.

You will be beyond thrilled then, he'll get to those marks easily

Sounds good. I hope you are correct

[mavfan12]

If Brand is good for 20 minutes and 8ppg/5rpg and good defense I will be thrilled.

You will be beyond thrilled then, he'll get to those marks easily

Sounds good. I hope you are correct

My thinking is he'll get 15 or so backup PF minutes and maybe 10 or so at backup C. One of the better post defenders in the game, and if he gets those minutes 8 and 5 should be easy given his career rates, especially against a lot of second units. Don't think Dirk is going to be a 36+ minute guy this year. Not to say he can't do it, I just don't think RC will want to unless he has to.

[SJSF]

8 and 5 are doable. He is also a great leader. I will watch the Mavs just to watch him.