Jalen Brunson discussion

daoneandonly · Post #41 » by **daoneandonly** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:26 pm

JamesConway wrote:Can't follow the outrage about posters who question the pick. Prior to the draft pretty much everybody thought (Skin & Karalla on their pod, the locked on-guys) we'd target one of the wings with #33. Our backcourt is extremely crowded already and we've spent a ton of time developing guys like Ferrell and Curry. I get the BPA-angle and am at peace with the pick now, but from a more teambuilding-centric POV this was obviously a selection that's gonna polarize.

I just hope that it all makes sense at the end of the offseason. I REALLY don't want this to end in a situation where we've blown a not-great-but-pretty-solid pick on a fourth string PG bc they've decided to also bring back multiple of ther other guards who are all more experienced and are therefore better win-now options for Carlisle. We all know how he usually handles situations like this.

yeah I'm with you. I would have preferred Bruce brown or Bates-Diop, but I dont hate brunson, just thought there were more sensible options. Though if brunson can play well or already has more trade value than the other 2, and we can flip him in some package for a Center, then I'd be even more okay.

Mr B · Post #42 » by **Mr B** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:07 pm

Pinkyring wrote:
2011Champs wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Khyrie thomas was bpa and filled a major hole and need, size at the 1/2 excellent defender and excellent three point shooter, big isnt our only need, we are still running wes out there at 2 for christ sakes

Obviously Khyrie wasn’t as high on Donnie and the scout’s list as Brunson. I don’t trust Cubans analysis but I do trust Donnie’s.

Why do u trust donnie, what was his last good draft pick? And lets not count dsj who fell is his lap and is still under review

He is the guy that wanted to draft Giannis. They would have had him if Cuban didn’t want to save $900k. So he gets credit for that.

Mr B · Post #43 » by **Mr B** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:10 pm

JamesConway wrote:Can't follow the outrage about posters who question the pick. Prior to the draft pretty much everybody thought (Skin & Karalla on their pod, the locked on-guys) we'd target one of the wings with #33. Our backcourt is extremely crowded already and we've spent a ton of time developing guys like Ferrell and Curry. I get the BPA-angle and am at peace with the pick now, but from a more teambuilding-centric POV this was obviously a selection that's gonna polarize.

I just hope that it all makes sense at the end of the offseason. I REALLY don't want this to end in a situation where we've blown a not-great-but-pretty-solid pick on a fourth string PG bc they've decided to also bring back multiple of ther other guards who are all more experienced and are therefore better win-now options for Carlisle. We all know how he usually handles situations like this.

If the trade for Deandre goes through the backcourt situation will be resolved. Both Wes and JJ would likely be headed to LA in the trade.

Mr B · Post #44 » by **Mr B** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:11 pm

Pinkyring wrote:
2011Champs wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Why do u trust donnie, what was his last good draft pick? And lets not count dsj who fell is his lap and is still under review
HIS last good draft pick was Giannis.
Mark cuban overruled him because he wanted to save a few bucks to make an offer to Dwight Howard.

He didn't pick giannis, despite the stories that he wanted him i fail to believe that if he "stomped on a desk" saying giannis was going to be a top 10 player he wouldn't have got the go ahead to draft him, we could have found other ways to shave that million and frankly if a million was going to make or break dwight from signing here u wouldn't want him anyway

Cuban has the final say so and HE wanted Dwight Howard. No way Donnie would have won that battle when Cuban is the one that signs the checks.

Mr B · Post #45 » by **Mr B** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:13 pm

jpengland wrote:
BlueSan wrote:I disagree

Dončič is not a primary ball handler, at least not at this point and probably never will be, he can be a playmaking player but he is not going to be the one primary bringing the ball over the court and what not. Also Brunson - DSJ - Doncic would actually work well on the court together imo, not for long stretches but on occasions

A second rounder will very, very early result in a starter.

Getting a high character, high floor guy is a great move. And Brunson fits that profile.

I doubt Yogi comes back, and JJ is getting old. Rick likes to play those two (or three!) PG line ups.

Brunson projects will as a backup, steady PG who can run an offense,make plays and keep things ticking well whilst other guys rest. That's a great pick up at that end of the draft, there aren't that many good back up PG about, a lot of gunners but not steady play running types.

It would not surprise me that by the end of Brunson’s rookie contract teams are contacting the Mavs looking to trade for Brunson to be their starting PG.

Pinkyring · Post #46 » by **Pinkyring** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:17 pm

Mr B wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
2011Champs wrote:HIS last good draft pick was Giannis.
Mark cuban overruled him because he wanted to save a few bucks to make an offer to Dwight Howard.

He didn't pick giannis, despite the stories that he wanted him i fail to believe that if he "stomped on a desk" saying giannis was going to be a top 10 player he wouldn't have got the go ahead to draft him, we could have found other ways to shave that million and frankly if a million was going to make or break dwight from signing here u wouldn't want him anyway

Cuban has the final say so and HE wanted Dwight Howard. No way Donnie would have won that battle when Cuban is the one that signs the checks.

Right, ok

Pinkyring · Post #47 » by **Pinkyring** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:18 pm

Mr B wrote:
JamesConway wrote:Can't follow the outrage about posters who question the pick. Prior to the draft pretty much everybody thought (Skin & Karalla on their pod, the locked on-guys) we'd target one of the wings with #33. Our backcourt is extremely crowded already and we've spent a ton of time developing guys like Ferrell and Curry. I get the BPA-angle and am at peace with the pick now, but from a more teambuilding-centric POV this was obviously a selection that's gonna polarize.

I just hope that it all makes sense at the end of the offseason. I REALLY don't want this to end in a situation where we've blown a not-great-but-pretty-solid pick on a fourth string PG bc they've decided to also bring back multiple of ther other guards who are all more experienced and are therefore better win-now options for Carlisle. We all know how he usually handles situations like this.

If the trade for Deandre goes through the backcourt situation will be resolved. Both Wes and JJ would likely be headed to LA in the trade.

They aren't trading barea that's cuban and ricks butt buddy and we don't need a 30 yr old center anyway

Mr B · Post #48 » by **Mr B** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:41 pm

Pinkyring wrote:
Mr B wrote:
JamesConway wrote:Can't follow the outrage about posters who question the pick. Prior to the draft pretty much everybody thought (Skin & Karalla on their pod, the locked on-guys) we'd target one of the wings with #33. Our backcourt is extremely crowded already and we've spent a ton of time developing guys like Ferrell and Curry. I get the BPA-angle and am at peace with the pick now, but from a more teambuilding-centric POV this was obviously a selection that's gonna polarize.

I just hope that it all makes sense at the end of the offseason. I REALLY don't want this to end in a situation where we've blown a not-great-but-pretty-solid pick on a fourth string PG bc they've decided to also bring back multiple of ther other guards who are all more experienced and are therefore better win-now options for Carlisle. We all know how he usually handles situations like this.

If the trade for Deandre goes through the backcourt situation will be resolved. Both Wes and JJ would likely be headed to LA in the trade.

They aren't trading barea that's cuban and ricks butt buddy and we don't need a 30 yr old center anyway

You might as well get it through your head that this team isn’t tanking again and going super young. I would personally prefer Capela or Nurkic but they appear to be committed to trading for Deandre. Might as well get used to it. Regardless of what you think he would help. He has the exact skills this team needs/wants.

arkuo · Post #49 » by **arkuo** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:03 pm

Pinkyring wrote:Khyrie thomas was bpa and filled a major hole and need, size at the 1/2 excellent defender and excellent three point shooter, big isnt our only need, we are still running wes out there at 2 for christ sakes

I think NBA teams have a different opinion on Khryi Thomas as opposed to casual fans who watch YouTube highlights. Khyri has the age of a college senior and is 22 years old. That alone diminishes his value a bit in the eyes of GMs in the league. Of course that is not a knock on Khyri. However when it comes to upside and potential, the younger, the better for the NBA GMs.

On a side note, I think this is also one of the reasons why Mikal Bridges dropped a few slots down. Age plays a factor for these GMs. If Khyri were 5 years younger then sure I could see him getting picked way higher than #38.

Pinkyring · Post #50 » by **Pinkyring** » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:12 pm

arkuo wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Khyrie thomas was bpa and filled a major hole and need, size at the 1/2 excellent defender and excellent three point shooter, big isnt our only need, we are still running wes out there at 2 for christ sakes

I think NBA teams have a different opinion on Khryi Thomas as opposed to casual fans who watch YouTube highlights. Khyri has the age of a college senior and is 22 years old. That alone diminishes his value a bit in the eyes of GMs in the league. Of course that is not a knock on Khyri. However when it comes to upside and potential, the younger, the better for the NBA GMs.

On a side note, I think this is also one of the reasons why Mikal Bridges dropped a few slots down. Age plays a factor for these GMs. If Khyri were 5 years younger then sure I could see him getting picked way higher than #38.

They're 3 months apart, Brunson will be 22 before the season starts, thomas just turned 22, thats not a factor

Post #51 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:33 am

Read on Twitter

Hmm... Guess it's insurance if Yogi leaves, but yeah seems like overkill. Then again, it's Carlisle. We know how much he likes to play 6 foot PGs at SF :-?

BlueSan · Post #52 » by **BlueSan** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:30 pm

Again I am so sad we are even discussing this. Jalen was picked NCAA player of the year for a reason, plus his personality is absolutely brilliant fit

Pinkyring · Post #53 » by **Pinkyring** » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:59 pm

BlueSan wrote:Again I am so sad we are even discussing this. Jalen was picked NCAA player of the year for a reason, plus his personality is absolutely brilliant fit

Yeah so were tyler hansbrough, jimmer, McDermott and frank Mason over the last 6 years, that doesn't mean crap if you're not a freshman or sophomore.

Pointguard01 · Post #54 » by **Pointguard01** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:47 am

daoneandonly wrote:
JamesConway wrote:Can't follow the outrage about posters who question the pick. Prior to the draft pretty much everybody thought (Skin & Karalla on their pod, the locked on-guys) we'd target one of the wings with #33. Our backcourt is extremely crowded already and we've spent a ton of time developing guys like Ferrell and Curry. I get the BPA-angle and am at peace with the pick now, but from a more teambuilding-centric POV this was obviously a selection that's gonna polarize.

I just hope that it all makes sense at the end of the offseason. I REALLY don't want this to end in a situation where we've blown a not-great-but-pretty-solid pick on a fourth string PG bc they've decided to also bring back multiple of ther other guards who are all more experienced and are therefore better win-now options for Carlisle. We all know how he usually handles situations like this.

yeah I'm with you. I would have preferred Bruce brown or Bates-Diop, but I dont hate brunson, just thought there were more sensible options. Though if brunson can play well or already has more trade value than the other 2, and we can flip him in some package for a Center, then I'd be even more okay.

Agree with both of you.

I also preferred a wing --> Khyri Thomas & Melvin Frazier based on who was left.

Yogi is still an average backup PG that has little impact on the game most nights (part of it bc of the role he plays alongside Barea and DSJ). I assume the idea is that Yogi's ceiling is just that, while the Mavs' believe in Brunson. I said this before, but bc Brunson was such a good PnR player in college...AND we run that so much, the thinking has got to be that he can develop into JJ Barea --> instant offense + playmaking off the bench on offense with better defense alongside it. If he can be that, then it's a good pick.

Don't forget that whoever you get at #33 is lucky to be a rotation backup, much less make a roster past their 1st yr. For instance, if you look back at the 2011 draft, which was a decently deep draft, here's the worthy picks....

So in a deep draft, you have a 20% chance to get a NBA player (6-in-30) and a 10% chance to get a rotation guy (3-in-30).

Point is, you don't draft off "Need". If you believe Brunson will turn into one of the 10% of players that other teams will value/can be in your rotation (no one is trading for Singler or Mack now or then), then you take him. Doesn't mean we got it right, but while I was "hoping" for the same, as many were, it's not the right thinking.

Completely agree we have to play him for Brunson to show his value/skills though.

SOUNDCHASER · Post #55 » by **SOUNDCHASER** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:06 am

Jalen Brunson and Kyrie are both 6'3" or so from what I have read. I see some say J is really 6'2" but one inch is not making a lot of difference to me, at least he is not under 6'. Obviously, someone that leads a college team to the national championship 2 years in a row is a far more capable player and someone who odds are is going to be in the top 10% of 2nd rounders who makes an impact as a rotation guy.

His numbers look good to me. Better than 40% from 3. 18.9 points, 4.6 assists and 3.1 rebounds per game on a team with many other players who got drafted ahead of him. That tells me this was not a case of being a semi-good player on a bad team.