RS 22/23 - Mavs @ Wolves Part II (Wed, 8PM EST)

[daoneandonly]

Green is in my list of 3 best defenders, i counted him.

Probably you are right, he will never be a 3rd best player of a contender but at least he really plays on the both side(not like DFS like you said days ago).
Maybe the only 1 on the team... And he doesn't have a lot of trade value, we can't flip him for a better player. Not happens.

We have to trade some of our duplicate role players but they have value only for Cuban so probably no moves for this year too.

Here's a pretty important factor imo. DFS was not drafted, and worked his butt off to play like someone who should have been a first round draft pick

Grene was drafted #18, ahead of guys like Maxey, Bane, Bey, McDanaiels, and has shown zero desire to put in the work and be better than those guys.

Here's a story to put it into perspective. There was once a boss who made the salaries of all of his direct reports public knowledge to the whole team. His belief was if you think ur better than someone making more than u, prove it, outwork them and ull be compensated accordingly. It worked for several of the employees, productivity improved also.

Desmond Bane called out Josh Green for being a DNP-CD, the next time DAL played Memp, Josh Green did nothing to put him in his place. All he did was continue to put up average 10th man stats, and to this day he continues to do the same.

I don't care about that, became an NBA player despite not be drafted earn respect for sure but not make you a better player of what you put on the floor.

DFS at 22 yo was not even in NBA, Josh at that age is a good rotation player with upside.
Is Bane better? Maxey? Probably yes, but who cares now?
Looking at players drafted before him is useless, now we have him and we HAVE to develop him in the better way possible. (Fu*k Grayson who injuried him)

I see a lot of chance that he will became better than DFS , Who is a good role player and can't dribble, pass or create his own shoot. Nothing more.

You dont need to care about it, others do

I dont care about this upside we keep hearing about for Josh green that he hasnt shown much of in 2+ years. Its all false hope you and the Mavs FO are holding onto because he's young and he was drafted ahead of 2 all star caliber players. This is what hurts teams as well, holding onto guys you drafted hoping they'd become great, he never will. He may be a decent rotation guy, but we need stars.

[UglyBugBall]

Unfortunatley its one game and that team didnt have their best offensive player

But lets not forget the other "best defender" that didnt play. Mavs FO should take notice that Josh Green will never be the 3rd most important piece. Their egos just cant handle the fact that they made a terrible pick, so they'll keep propping him up

Green is in my list of 3 best defenders, i counted him.

Probably you are right, he will never be a 3rd best player of a contender but at least he really plays on the both side(not like DFS like you said days ago).
Maybe the only 1 on the team... And he doesn't have a lot of trade value, we can't flip him for a better player. Not happens.

We have to trade some of our duplicate role players but they have value only for Cuban so probably no moves for this year too.

Here's a pretty important factor imo. DFS was not drafted, and worked his butt off to play like someone who should have been a first round draft pick

Grene was drafted #18, ahead of guys like Maxey, Bane, Bey, McDanaiels, and has shown zero desire to put in the work and be better than those guys.

Here's a story to put it into perspective. There was once a boss who made the salaries of all of his direct reports public knowledge to the whole team. His belief was if you think ur better than someone making more than u, prove it, outwork them and ull be compensated accordingly. It worked for several of the employees, productivity improved also.

Desmond Bane called out Josh Green for being a DNP-CD, the next time DAL played Memp, Josh Green did nothing to put him in his place. All he did was continue to put up average 10th man stats, and to this day he continues to do the same.

What on earth are you talking about? Greens improvement this year was by far the most impressive on the team. Look at the increase in his TS, 3PT, W/48m PER and pretty much everything else.

Code: Select all

                                           
Season    Age  PER   TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48

2020-21    20  8.8  .490 .269 .247  .050
2021-22    21  11.9 .578 .305 .176  .111
2022-23    22  13.6 .717 .524 .437  .152


The went from a below average 3PT shooter, to average last year and elite this year. He's become a decent secondary ball handler capable of generating kick outs for teammates. He's improved as a defender and is probably the best or second best defender on the team now. He plays with insane energy.

His raw numbers are way, way better too:

Code: Select all

                                     
Season    Age  FG%  3P%  2P% eFG%  FT%
2020-21    20 .452 .160 .559 .473 .565
2021-22    21 .508 .359 .573 .563 .689
2022-23    22 .583 .444 .735 .699 .711


Saying he doesn't want it or hasn't improve is insane. He's the definition of want-it. The guy is 22 and making leaps year after year. He is absolutely the best asset (other than Luka) on this team and you don't move him unless you get a really good package for him.

DFS is literally the opposite of this guy now. He's regressed compared to last year. He hasn't changed his game at all. The dude can't dribble, cant create and his 3&D, which is supposed to be his value are both worse than Greens now. He literally does nothing better than Green at this point and is many years older. He's a finished product.

Code: Select all

                                       
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48
2020-21    27 12.0 .609 .648 .088  .110
2021-22    28 12.5 .604 .629 .120  .121
2022-23    29  9.0 .535 .724 .108  .056


This time next year, assuming Green continues to improve like he has, DFS won't even be remotely at his level, if he is at all right now.

DFS is a solid player. Green is just flat out better with a ton of upside still left.

[41Dirk41]

Here's a pretty important factor imo. DFS was not drafted, and worked his butt off to play like someone who should have been a first round draft pick

Grene was drafted #18, ahead of guys like Maxey, Bane, Bey, McDanaiels, and has shown zero desire to put in the work and be better than those guys.

Here's a story to put it into perspective. There was once a boss who made the salaries of all of his direct reports public knowledge to the whole team. His belief was if you think ur better than someone making more than u, prove it, outwork them and ull be compensated accordingly. It worked for several of the employees, productivity improved also.

Desmond Bane called out Josh Green for being a DNP-CD, the next time DAL played Memp, Josh Green did nothing to put him in his place. All he did was continue to put up average 10th man stats, and to this day he continues to do the same.

I don't care about that, became an NBA player despite not be drafted earn respect for sure but not make you a better player of what you put on the floor.

DFS at 22 yo was not even in NBA, Josh at that age is a good rotation player with upside.
Is Bane better? Maxey? Probably yes, but who cares now?
Looking at players drafted before him is useless, now we have him and we HAVE to develop him in the better way possible. (Fu*k Grayson who injuried him)

I see a lot of chance that he will became better than DFS , Who is a good role player and can't dribble, pass or create his own shoot. Nothing more.

You dont need to care about it, others do

I dont care about this upside we keep hearing about for Josh green that he hasnt shown much of in 2+ years. Its all false hope you and the Mavs FO are holding onto because he's young and he was drafted ahead of 2 all star caliber players. This is what hurts teams as well, holding onto guys you drafted hoping they'd become great, he never will. He may be a decent rotation guy, but we need stars.

About the bolded part :
That's excatly the same thing i said to you when all of people here exalted DFS, Kleber, Bullock ecc ecc
They are untouchables for you, we could have had Markkanen and Bogi for cheap instead this bunch of role players.
They are not stars but solid players for sure.

I always read here that Luka doesn't need stars but players who fit the system and here is where this way of thinking has led us.

Trading Green will never give us a star. It's an useless speech. We can only hope he will improves a lot and it's wrong that he hasn't show too much because everytime he plays good things happens.

[daoneandonly]

Green is in my list of 3 best defenders, i counted him.

Probably you are right, he will never be a 3rd best player of a contender but at least he really plays on the both side(not like DFS like you said days ago).
Maybe the only 1 on the team... And he doesn't have a lot of trade value, we can't flip him for a better player. Not happens.

We have to trade some of our duplicate role players but they have value only for Cuban so probably no moves for this year too.

Here's a pretty important factor imo. DFS was not drafted, and worked his butt off to play like someone who should have been a first round draft pick

Grene was drafted #18, ahead of guys like Maxey, Bane, Bey, McDanaiels, and has shown zero desire to put in the work and be better than those guys.

Here's a story to put it into perspective. There was once a boss who made the salaries of all of his direct reports public knowledge to the whole team. His belief was if you think ur better than someone making more than u, prove it, outwork them and ull be compensated accordingly. It worked for several of the employees, productivity improved also.

Desmond Bane called out Josh Green for being a DNP-CD, the next time DAL played Memp, Josh Green did nothing to put him in his place. All he did was continue to put up average 10th man stats, and to this day he continues to do the same.

What on earth are you talking about? Greens improvement this year was by far the most impressive on the team. Look at the increase in his TS, 3PT, W/48m PER and pretty much everything else.

Code: Select all

                                           
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48

2020-21    20  8.8 .490 .269 .247  .050
2021-22    21  11.9 .578 .305 .176  .111
2022-23    22  13.6 .717 .524 .437  .152


The went from a below average 3PT shooter, to average last year and elite this year. He's become a decent secondary ball handler capable of generating kick outs for teammates. He's improved as a defender and is probably the best or second best defender on the team now. He plays with insane energy.

His raw numbers are way, way better too:

Code: Select all

                                     
Season    Age  FG%  3P%  2P% eFG%  FT%
2020-21    20 .452 .160 .559 .473 .565
2021-22    21 .508 .359 .573 .563 .689
2022-23    22 .583 .444 .735 .699 .711


Saying he doesn't want it or hasn't improve is insane. He's the definition of want-it. The guy is 22 and making leaps year after year. He is absolutely the best asset (other than Luka) on this team and you don't move him unless you get a really good package for him.

DFS is literally the opposite of this guy now. He's regressed compared to last year. He hasn't changed his game at all. The dude can't dribble, cant create and his 3&D, which is supposed to be his value are both worse than Greens now. He literally does nothing better than Green at this point and is many years older. He's a finished product.

Code: Select all

                                       
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48
2020-21    27 12.0 .609 .648 .088  .110
2021-22    28 12.5 .604 .629 .120  .121
2022-23    29  9.0 .535 .724 .108  .056


This time next year, assuming Green continues to improve like he has, DFS won't even be remotely at his level, if he is at all right now.

DFS is a solid player. Green is just flat out better with a ton of upside still left.

Those # from his first 2 years are stats for G league level players. So him improving from that is not a big feat. I want and expect him to be on the level of Bane or Maxey, he never will. Okay, our loss. At least be betetr than Bey, he's still not even there yet.

[UglyBugBall]

Here's a pretty important factor imo. DFS was not drafted, and worked his butt off to play like someone who should have been a first round draft pick

Grene was drafted #18, ahead of guys like Maxey, Bane, Bey, McDanaiels, and has shown zero desire to put in the work and be better than those guys.

Here's a story to put it into perspective. There was once a boss who made the salaries of all of his direct reports public knowledge to the whole team. His belief was if you think ur better than someone making more than u, prove it, outwork them and ull be compensated accordingly. It worked for several of the employees, productivity improved also.

Desmond Bane called out Josh Green for being a DNP-CD, the next time DAL played Memp, Josh Green did nothing to put him in his place. All he did was continue to put up average 10th man stats, and to this day he continues to do the same.

What on earth are you talking about? Greens improvement this year was by far the most impressive on the team. Look at the increase in his TS, 3PT, W/48m PER and pretty much everything else.

Code: Select all

                                           
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48

2020-21    20  8.8 .490 .269 .247  .050
2021-22    21  11.9 .578 .305 .176  .111
2022-23    22  13.6 .717 .524 .437  .152


The went from a below average 3PT shooter, to average last year and elite this year. He's become a decent secondary ball handler capable of generating kick outs for teammates. He's improved as a defender and is probably the best or second best defender on the team now. He plays with insane energy.

His raw numbers are way, way better too:

Code: Select all

                                     
Season    Age  FG%  3P%  2P% eFG%  FT%
2020-21    20 .452 .160 .559 .473 .565
2021-22    21 .508 .359 .573 .563 .689
2022-23    22 .583 .444 .735 .699 .711


Saying he doesn't want it or hasn't improve is insane. He's the definition of want-it. The guy is 22 and making leaps year after year. He is absolutely the best asset (other than Luka) on this team and you don't move him unless you get a really good package for him.

DFS is literally the opposite of this guy now. He's regressed compared to last year. He hasn't changed his game at all. The dude can't dribble, cant create and his 3&D, which is supposed to be his value are both worse than Greens now. He literally does nothing better than Green at this point and is many years older. He's a finished product.

Code: Select all

                                       
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48
2020-21    27 12.0 .609 .648 .088  .110
2021-22    28 12.5 .604 .629 .120  .121
2022-23    29  9.0 .535 .724 .108  .056


This time next year, assuming Green continues to improve like he has, DFS won't even be remotely at his level, if he is at all right now.

DFS is a solid player. Green is just flat out better with a ton of upside still left.

Those # from his first 2 years are stats for G league level players. So him improving from that is not a big feat. I want and expect him to be on the level of Bane or Maxey, he never will. Okay, our loss. At least be betetr than Bey, he's still not even there yet.

So what about DSF then? He's a 7th year player, playing worse than Green. I guess your hero should be sent back to the G league to figure it out then.

[daoneandonly]

What on earth are you talking about? Greens improvement this year was by far the most impressive on the team. Look at the increase in his TS, 3PT, W/48m PER and pretty much everything else.

Code: Select all

                                           
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48

2020-21    20  8.8 .490 .269 .247  .050
2021-22    21  11.9 .578 .305 .176  .111
2022-23    22  13.6 .717 .524 .437  .152


The went from a below average 3PT shooter, to average last year and elite this year. He's become a decent secondary ball handler capable of generating kick outs for teammates. He's improved as a defender and is probably the best or second best defender on the team now. He plays with insane energy.

His raw numbers are way, way better too:

Code: Select all

                                     
Season    Age  FG%  3P%  2P% eFG%  FT%
2020-21    20 .452 .160 .559 .473 .565
2021-22    21 .508 .359 .573 .563 .689
2022-23    22 .583 .444 .735 .699 .711


Saying he doesn't want it or hasn't improve is insane. He's the definition of want-it. The guy is 22 and making leaps year after year. He is absolutely the best asset (other than Luka) on this team and you don't move him unless you get a really good package for him.

DFS is literally the opposite of this guy now. He's regressed compared to last year. He hasn't changed his game at all. The dude can't dribble, cant create and his 3&D, which is supposed to be his value are both worse than Greens now. He literally does nothing better than Green at this point and is many years older. He's a finished product.

Code: Select all

                                       
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48
2020-21    27 12.0 .609 .648 .088  .110
2021-22    28 12.5 .604 .629 .120  .121
2022-23    29  9.0 .535 .724 .108  .056


This time next year, assuming Green continues to improve like he has, DFS won't even be remotely at his level, if he is at all right now.

DFS is a solid player. Green is just flat out better with a ton of upside still left.

Those # from his first 2 years are stats for G league level players. So him improving from that is not a big feat. I want and expect him to be on the level of Bane or Maxey, he never will. Okay, our loss. At least be betetr than Bey, he's still not even there yet.

So what about DSF then? He's a 7th year player, playing worse than Green. I guess your hero should be sent back to the G league to figure it out then.

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

[Bob8]

What on earth are you talking about? Greens improvement this year was by far the most impressive on the team. Look at the increase in his TS, 3PT, W/48m PER and pretty much everything else.

Code: Select all

                                           
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48

2020-21    20  8.8 .490 .269 .247  .050
2021-22    21  11.9 .578 .305 .176  .111
2022-23    22  13.6 .717 .524 .437  .152


The went from a below average 3PT shooter, to average last year and elite this year. He's become a decent secondary ball handler capable of generating kick outs for teammates. He's improved as a defender and is probably the best or second best defender on the team now. He plays with insane energy.

His raw numbers are way, way better too:

Code: Select all

                                     
Season    Age  FG%  3P%  2P% eFG%  FT%
2020-21    20 .452 .160 .559 .473 .565
2021-22    21 .508 .359 .573 .563 .689
2022-23    22 .583 .444 .735 .699 .711


Saying he doesn't want it or hasn't improve is insane. He's the definition of want-it. The guy is 22 and making leaps year after year. He is absolutely the best asset (other than Luka) on this team and you don't move him unless you get a really good package for him.

DFS is literally the opposite of this guy now. He's regressed compared to last year. He hasn't changed his game at all. The dude can't dribble, cant create and his 3&D, which is supposed to be his value are both worse than Greens now. He literally does nothing better than Green at this point and is many years older. He's a finished product.

Code: Select all

                                       
Season    Age  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr WS/48
2020-21    27 12.0 .609 .648 .088  .110
2021-22    28 12.5 .604 .629 .120  .121
2022-23    29  9.0 .535 .724 .108  .056


This time next year, assuming Green continues to improve like he has, DFS won't even be remotely at his level, if he is at all right now.

DFS is a solid player. Green is just flat out better with a ton of upside still left.

Those # from his first 2 years are stats for G league level players. So him improving from that is not a big feat. I want and expect him to be on the level of Bane or Maxey, he never will. Okay, our loss. At least be betetr than Bey, he's still not even there yet.

So what about DSF then? He's a 7th year player, playing worse than Green. I guess your hero should be sent back to the G league to figure it out then.

Not G-league, but he can't be a starter for sure.

[41Dirk41]

But am i the only who saw a decent defensive game by Wood yesterday?

[UglyBugBall]

Those # from his first 2 years are stats for G league level players. So him improving from that is not a big feat. I want and expect him to be on the level of Bane or Maxey, he never will. Okay, our loss. At least be betetr than Bey, he's still not even there yet.

So what about DSF then? He's a 7th year player, playing worse than Green. I guess your hero should be sent back to the G league to figure it out then.

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

I thought your argument was about how Green hasn't ever improved, unlike DFS, so I'm not sure why we're comparing them last year. Kind of proves my point that you have zero argument this year because Green has improved to a point where there's absolutely nothing you can argue DFS is better at now.

[Archx]

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

Well, to be honest, combining all the usual stats that already favour Green, let's look at additional impact stats on a larger sample size.

Green On/Off +9.4 (highest on the team)
DFS On/Off -4 (even though he starts and plays mostly with Doncic who is complete opposite +5.3)

Interesting fact, Dinwiddie and McGee are by far the worst +/- players on the team -61 and -57.

Green total +/- +88, he is even ahead of Luka who is at +86
DFS total +/- -2, he is tied with another scrub Bullock.

When DFS is ON the floor, opposing teams have a 117 ORtg. That's higher even than Doncic's (who is suppose to be a bad defender).
When Green is ON the floor, opposing teams have only a 106 ORtg.

Green by all definitions is already a better player than DFS, better defender, shooter and is actually comfortable with handling the ball, plus Mavs are positive when Green is playing unlike DFS who is negative. Green simply has a bigger impact on games than DFS, there is literally nothing that would say otherwise, not even eye test.

[daoneandonly]

So what about DSF then? He's a 7th year player, playing worse than Green. I guess your hero should be sent back to the G league to figure it out then.

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

I thought your argument was about how Green hasn't ever improved, unlike DFS, so I'm not sure why we're comparing them last year. Kind of proves my point that you have zero argument this year because Green has improved to a point where there's absolutely nothing you can argue DFS is better at now.

He hasnt improved enough wher eit matters. How the hell do you not improve from his awful rookie year and useless 2nd year? WHo are you anyways, a new Mavs fan after they went to the WCF? DFS helped take the Mavs there, so real fans appreciate that and all the work he put in to get to where he is. His current slump is pretty much equal to Green's current career high, so that alone closes any argument.

[daoneandonly]

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

Well, to be honest, combining all the usual stats that already favour Green, let's look at additional impact stats on a larger sample size.

Green On/Off +9.4 (highest on the team)
DFS On/Off -4 (even though he starts and plays mostly with Doncic who is complete opposite +5.3)

Interesting fact, Dinwiddie and McGee are by far the worst +/- players on the team -61 and -57.

Green total +/- +88, he is even ahead of Luka who is at +86
DFS total +/- -2, he is tied with another scrub Bullock.

When DFS is ON the floor, opposing teams have a 117 ORtg. That's higher even than Doncic's (who is suppose to be a bad defender).
When Green is ON the floor, opposing teams have only a 106 ORtg.

Green by all definitions is already a better player than DFS, better defender, shooter and is actually comfortable with handling the ball, plus Mavs are positive when Green is playing unlike DFS who is negative. Green simply has a bigger impact on games than DFS, there is literally nothing that would say otherwise, not even eye test.

Its easy to throw stats like that and conveiently leave off that DFS is facing starters most of the time and Green si facing fellow bench guys. Which even further shows how sorry he is that he cant even put up big numbers against 2nd units.

[41Dirk41]

Real fans

I remember very well when those real fans called me hater for have critized the FO in the past 2 years of free agency

Anyway DFS is still a better player than Green right now in my opinion but Josh has an upside that DoDo, who has an amazing work ethic, never had.

[UglyBugBall]

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

Well, to be honest, combining all the usual stats that already favour Green, let's look at additional impact stats on a larger sample size.

Green On/Off +9.4 (highest on the team)
DFS On/Off -4 (even though he starts and plays mostly with Doncic who is complete opposite +5.3)

Interesting fact, Dinwiddie and McGee are by far the worst +/- players on the team -61 and -57.

Green total +/- +88, he is even ahead of Luka who is at +86
DFS total +/- -2, he is tied with another scrub Bullock.

When DFS is ON the floor, opposing teams have a 117 ORtg. That's higher even than Doncic's (who is suppose to be a bad defender).
When Green is ON the floor, opposing teams have only a 106 ORtg.

Green by all definitions is already a better player than DFS, better defender, shooter and is actually comfortable with handling the ball, plus Mavs are positive when Green is playing unlike DFS who is negative. Green simply has a bigger impact on games than DFS, there is literally nothing that would say otherwise, not even eye test.

Its easy to throw stats like that and conveiently leave off that DFS is facing starters most of the time and Green si facing fellow bench guys. Which even further shows how sorry he is that he cant even put up big numbers against 2nd units.

DFS is playing alongside Luka and Dinwiddie. Literally the only thing he needs to do is stand in the corner and defend. He's being fed by the most prolific corner shot creator in the game. And he's shooting worse than Green.

Green doesn't have Luka to get him shots. He's tasked with creating shots for others, spotting up, ball handling and defending. And grabbing boards too.

That said Green does play quite a bit with Luka, mainly because of how unplayable Bullock has been. The best two man lineup is Luka and Green, so Green is playing a lot against starters too, and doing a lot better at it than DFS.

The fact that DFS is playing worse than Green despite playing alongside Luka from the jump means that he should probably be moved to the bench so that Green can take his place.

[UglyBugBall]

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

I thought your argument was about how Green hasn't ever improved, unlike DFS, so I'm not sure why we're comparing them last year. Kind of proves my point that you have zero argument this year because Green has improved to a point where there's absolutely nothing you can argue DFS is better at now.

He hasnt improved enough wher eit matters. How the hell do you not improve from his awful rookie year and useless 2nd year? WHo are you anyways, a new Mavs fan after they went to the WCF? DFS helped take the Mavs there, so real fans appreciate that and all the work he put in to get to where he is. His current slump is pretty much equal to Green's current career high, so that alone closes any argument.

No one is saying DFS wasn't good last year. But the guy is 29 and the fact is he's outclassed by a 22 year old who is now a better shooter, passer and handler and about as good on defense. He's also 7 years younger with ton of upside still left.

You're right that Green can't be your third guy on a championship team. Not yet anyway, and probably never. But DFS can't even be your 5th if you want to contend, and he's not getting any better.

[Teffer10]

It's kind of funny that we are arguing between the better of two bench caliber players.
DFS is a starter because the FO views him of such and has never addressed one of the real problems on this team.
Green might or might not become starter material but my guess is not.

The problem imo is that we have way too many of those caliber players on this team.
We have Luka/Wood and a bunch of bench caliber players on this team which makes us a very average team.

[daoneandonly]

It's kind of funny that we are arguing between the better of two bench caliber players.
DFS is a starter because the FO views him of such and has never addressed one of the real problems on this team.
Green might or might not become starter material but my guess is not.

The problem imo is that we have way too many of those caliber players on this team.
We have Luka/Wood and a bunch of bench caliber players on this team which makes us a very average team.

Unfortunatley Wood is also a bench guy to his utter disregard for defense

The issue is the FO and scouting. If they had the wherewithall to know that Bane and Maxey would be better than Green, most mocks had maxey higher btw, then we wouldnt be having this discussion

[UglyBugBall]

It's kind of funny that we are arguing between the better of two bench caliber players.
DFS is a starter because the FO views him of such and has never addressed one of the real problems on this team.
Green might or might not become starter material but my guess is not.

The problem imo is that we have way too many of those caliber players on this team.
We have Luka/Wood and a bunch of bench caliber players on this team which makes us a very average team.

Unfortunatley Wood is also a bench guy to his utter disregard for defense

The issue is the FO and scouting. If they had the wherewithall to know that Bane and Maxey would be better than Green, most mocks had maxey higher btw, then we wouldnt be having this discussion

Wood is a decent starting PF. He just can't be your starting center.

The problem with this team isn't that they drafted Green. The problem is that gave big contracts to a bunch of guys that can't create anything for themselves or others, and can't protect the paint or rim.

[Archx]

DFS helped win us the Nuggests game this year and similarly games last year. DFS was crucial in this team getting to the WCF last year playing 40+ minutes a game. Those same playoffs where Josh Green was biting his fingernails on the bench watching, probably looking at tweets about how good Bane and maxey were doing in the same playoffs

Well, to be honest, combining all the usual stats that already favour Green, let's look at additional impact stats on a larger sample size.

Green On/Off +9.4 (highest on the team)
DFS On/Off -4 (even though he starts and plays mostly with Doncic who is complete opposite +5.3)

Interesting fact, Dinwiddie and McGee are by far the worst +/- players on the team -61 and -57.

Green total +/- +88, he is even ahead of Luka who is at +86
DFS total +/- -2, he is tied with another scrub Bullock.

When DFS is ON the floor, opposing teams have a 117 ORtg. That's higher even than Doncic's (who is suppose to be a bad defender).
When Green is ON the floor, opposing teams have only a 106 ORtg.

Green by all definitions is already a better player than DFS, better defender, shooter and is actually comfortable with handling the ball, plus Mavs are positive when Green is playing unlike DFS who is negative. Green simply has a bigger impact on games than DFS, there is literally nothing that would say otherwise, not even eye test.

Its easy to throw stats like that and conveiently leave off that DFS is facing starters most of the time and Green si facing fellow bench guys. Which even further shows how sorry he is that he cant even put up big numbers against 2nd units.

Then go check the lineups.

Green is featured in only two negative lineup combinations on this team. He's simply a high impact guy and i'm absolutely puzzled how you can't see that lol. Literally every statistic out there offensive/defensive/advanced/impact and even eye test will show you that. Yet you claim otherwise

[daoneandonly]

Well, to be honest, combining all the usual stats that already favour Green, let's look at additional impact stats on a larger sample size.

Green On/Off +9.4 (highest on the team)
DFS On/Off -4 (even though he starts and plays mostly with Doncic who is complete opposite +5.3)

Interesting fact, Dinwiddie and McGee are by far the worst +/- players on the team -61 and -57.

Green total +/- +88, he is even ahead of Luka who is at +86
DFS total +/- -2, he is tied with another scrub Bullock.

When DFS is ON the floor, opposing teams have a 117 ORtg. That's higher even than Doncic's (who is suppose to be a bad defender).
When Green is ON the floor, opposing teams have only a 106 ORtg.

Green by all definitions is already a better player than DFS, better defender, shooter and is actually comfortable with handling the ball, plus Mavs are positive when Green is playing unlike DFS who is negative. Green simply has a bigger impact on games than DFS, there is literally nothing that would say otherwise, not even eye test.

Its easy to throw stats like that and conveiently leave off that DFS is facing starters most of the time and Green si facing fellow bench guys. Which even further shows how sorry he is that he cant even put up big numbers against 2nd units.

Then go check the lineups.

Green is featured in only two negative lineup combinations on this team. He's simply a high impact guy and i'm absolutely puzzled how you can't see that lol. Literally every statistic out there offensive/defensive/advanced/impact and even eye test will show you that. Yet you claim otherwise

When he plays at 1/4th of the level of Bane or Maxey, I'll concede and we cna revisit