RS 24/25 - Mavs @ Rockets (Jan 1, 8PM EST)

[arkuo]

Let's set aside the ring conversation as that involves the team and how it's built at the time of his entry.

Since +/- rating is an individual stat, then where does he rank then? Luka lost the MVP voting 78 to 4. I repeat, 78 to 4. Then I guess I'm in good company if I don't share the views of those 4 guys.

On the topic of Westbrook, Westbrook has won a league MVP. Let's not bring the conversation to rings then.

Westbrook MVP award - 1 (close to end of career)
Luka MVP award - 0 (as of today)

Like I said, I can certainly change my views and opinions on him when the time comes. But today he's right there. Almost won a ring (if you call 4-1 almost) and almost won an MVP award (if you call 78-4 almost). But hey, he gets good stats.

[joesha1698]

PJ is not a creator nor is he good at initiating offense. He would be an all star if that was true. He's a very good 3&D player. He also often fumbles the ball when he tries to dribble too much.

Also, small sample size of few games where team played good is not a good example on the long run. Averages eventually balance themselves out and lately we've seen that. Giving Webber as an example with Luka is mind boggling to put it nicely lol....

Mavs just went to the finals WITH Doncic and a worse team, i don't know know why is this still even a discussion at this point.

Team simply needs to get healthy and get some reps in. Contrary to what trolls say, this season, Mavs are actually a better defensive unit when Luka plays, so there is that "small" thing fans often miss as well.

Washington could be our X factor on both sides of the ball. His offensive game still needs work but I would keep feeding him confidence. An aggressive Washington with the support of (Luka, Kidd, Kyrie) can be a heck of a player. But yeah, his dribbling and post game still needs some development. I just want him to get way more touches and opportunities to get better...he had what 17-19pts in the first quarter vs the rockets...in games like this, I wish the ball kept going to him..He's still young enough to improve.

Note: PJ if your reading this, work on your post game and go to work. This team needs you more than you think and its gonna set you up for a big pay day if you ball out this year in the playoffs and help us win the chip. THERE I SAID IT. ***fingers crossed***

[41Dirk41]

PJ is not a creator nor is he good at initiating offense. He would be an all star if that was true. He's a very good 3&D player. He also often fumbles the ball when he tries to dribble too much.

Also, small sample size of few games where team played good is not a good example on the long run. Averages eventually balance themselves out and lately we've seen that. Giving Webber as an example with Luka is mind boggling to put it nicely lol....

Mavs just went to the finals WITH Doncic and a worse team, i don't know know why is this still even a discussion at this point.

Team simply needs to get healthy and get some reps in. Contrary to what trolls say, this season, Mavs are actually a better defensive unit when Luka plays, so there is that "small" thing fans often miss as well.

Washington could be our X factor on both sides of the ball. His offensive game still needs work but I would keep feeding him confidence. An aggressive Washington with the support of (Luka, Kidd, Kyrie) can be a heck of a player. But yeah, his dribbling and post game still needs some development. I just want him to get way more touches and opportunities to get better...he had what 17-19pts in the first quarter vs the rockets...in games like this, I wish the ball kept going to him..He's still young enough to improve.

PJ major issue from the start of his NBA career is the continuity on the offensive end.
He can score 40point one game and 3 the next one, i don't think he will ever change honestly... But it's ok, otherwise he will be a perennial all star.

I'm ok if he plays solid defense and averages 8/10 rebounds EVERY games... That's the basic.

[41Dirk41]

Still the same amount of rings as Westbrook, whatever anyone says. You cant change that.

When he wins one, then he gets a seat at the table. I'll hand him his flowers. Simple.

Wait, you called him a regular season star... You took my words, twisted them and present them as different facts now. I called you out on your ridiculous statement which basically everyone knows it's not true. When Harden comes up as a comparison, first thing people say, he's opposite of Luka, great regular season bad playoffs.

That was the point and now you're trying to go sideways with rings and whatever you could come up with to prove that he's not good in playoffs. I honestly don't know if you're trolling or delusional.

I said regular season TYPE of star. That doesn't mean he can't be good in the playoffs too. It just means I think he's better in the regular season with games with highlights. It's not black and white. You can be good at both but just better at one side. Again he can prove me wrong by winning and that can certainly change my view of him. But as of this moment, that is where I stand.

Playoff/finals success is measured by wins. You can have a +/- that is off the roof but if you cant win then what good does that mean? Boston doesn't care about any of that. If you fall short then you fall short. I'm not rewarding you with praises for 2nd place. But if you guys want to then hey, free country. I'm not comfortable doing that and that's that.

But it's exactly the opposite, he plays better in the POs than the RS, it's quite obvious and there for all to see.

Ok he is (yet?!?) not a winner because he has no ring, but he is defintely not a RS star type of star... They are Towns, Booker, Westbrook ecc ecc

I can't believe how much hate have this forum for Doncic

[arkuo]

Wait, you called him a regular season star... You took my words, twisted them and present them as different facts now. I called you out on your ridiculous statement which basically everyone knows it's not true. When Harden comes up as a comparison, first thing people say, he's opposite of Luka, great regular season bad playoffs.

That was the point and now you're trying to go sideways with rings and whatever you could come up with to prove that he's not good in playoffs. I honestly don't know if you're trolling or delusional.

I said regular season TYPE of star. That doesn't mean he can't be good in the playoffs too. It just means I think he's better in the regular season with games with highlights. It's not black and white. You can be good at both but just better at one side. Again he can prove me wrong by winning and that can certainly change my view of him. But as of this moment, that is where I stand.

Playoff/finals success is measured by wins. You can have a +/- that is off the roof but if you cant win then what good does that mean? Boston doesn't care about any of that. If you fall short then you fall short. I'm not rewarding you with praises for 2nd place. But if you guys want to then hey, free country. I'm not comfortable doing that and that's that.

But it's exactly the opposite, he plays better in the POs than the RS, it's quite obvious and there for all to see.

Ok he is (yet?!?) not a winner because he has no ring, but he is defintely not a RS star type of star... They are Towns, Booker, Westbrook ecc ecc

I can't believe how much hate have this forum for Doncic

Your views is actually a few that I respect so we can agree to disagree. I just view him differently at this point in his career. Like I said, that opinion of him certainly can change the next few seasons. But as of today, just not enough juice for me.

This year he has the best Mavs roster constructed of all time, to-date. Even better than Dirk's squad, way way better than what Kidd and Mashburn had. So we'll see if he can take it all the way.

[41Dirk41]

I said regular season TYPE of star. That doesn't mean he can't be good in the playoffs too. It just means I think he's better in the regular season with games with highlights. It's not black and white. You can be good at both but just better at one side. Again he can prove me wrong by winning and that can certainly change my view of him. But as of this moment, that is where I stand.

Playoff/finals success is measured by wins. You can have a +/- that is off the roof but if you cant win then what good does that mean? Boston doesn't care about any of that. If you fall short then you fall short. I'm not rewarding you with praises for 2nd place. But if you guys want to then hey, free country. I'm not comfortable doing that and that's that.

But it's exactly the opposite, he plays better in the POs than the RS, it's quite obvious and there for all to see.

Ok he is (yet?!?) not a winner because he has no ring, but he is defintely not a RS star type of star... They are Towns, Booker, Westbrook ecc ecc

I can't believe how much hate have this forum for Doncic

Your views is actually a few that I respect so we can agree to disagree. I just view him differently at this point in his career. Like I said, that opinion of him certainly can change the next few seasons. But as of today, just not enough juice for me.

This year he has the best Mavs roster constructed of all time, to-date. Even better than Dirk's squad, way way better than what Kidd and Mashburn had. So we'll see if he can take it all the way.

Yes, you are right... Like PJ said "it's championship or bust". No excuses. Even with that moron on the bench.

[arkuo]

But it's exactly the opposite, he plays better in the POs than the RS, it's quite obvious and there for all to see.

Ok he is (yet?!?) not a winner because he has no ring, but he is defintely not a RS star type of star... They are Towns, Booker, Westbrook ecc ecc

I can't believe how much hate have this forum for Doncic

Your views is actually a few that I respect so we can agree to disagree. I just view him differently at this point in his career. Like I said, that opinion of him certainly can change the next few seasons. But as of today, just not enough juice for me.

This year he has the best Mavs roster constructed of all time, to-date. Even better than Dirk's squad, way way better than what Kidd and Mashburn had. So we'll see if he can take it all the way.

Yes, you are right... Like PJ said "it's championship or bust". No excuses. Even with that moron on the bench.

Agreed. If he is not able to take it all the way, then you'd have to replace Kyrie and Klay with even more all stars. But where does it stop.

[daoneandonly]

I think part of the hate Luka gets is attitude-related. He's always whining at the refs and even talking trash to the other team rather than get back on D. There was the Utah game where he cost us the victory, and we saw him blaming teammates. Add his apathy to staying in shape; its understandable that fans are frustrated.

[Archx]

I can't believe how much hate have this forum for Doncic

Jamal Murray is a proven champion and has a ring. Can't believe Nico is so stupid not to trade for him. I think even salaries would match.

Come on Nico, we need a proven playoff winner bring Jamal to Mavs instead of the scrub who only wants Westbrook's stats!!!

[Mavrelous]

I find arkuos takes about Luka asinine, given he isn't usually asinine, my guess is that he's yanking your chain, your choice if you want to continue arguing with him, within the forum rules of course.

[Bob8]

Still the same amount of rings as Westbrook, whatever anyone says. You cant change that.

When he wins one, then he gets a seat at the table. I'll hand him his flowers. Simple.

Wait, you called him a regular season star... You took my words, twisted them and present them as different facts now. I called you out on your ridiculous statement which basically everyone knows it's not true. When Harden comes up as a comparison, first thing people say, he's opposite of Luka, great regular season bad playoffs.

That was the point and now you're trying to go sideways with rings and whatever you could come up with to prove that he's not good in playoffs. I honestly don't know if you're trolling or delusional.

I said regular season TYPE of star. That doesn't mean he can't be good in the playoffs too. It just means I think he's better in the regular season with games with highlights. It's not black and white. You can be good at both but just better at one side. Again he can prove me wrong by winning and that can certainly change my view of him. But as of this moment, that is where I stand.

Playoff/finals success is measured by wins. You can have a +/- that is off the roof but if you cant win then what good does that mean? Boston doesn't care about any of that. If you fall short then you fall short. I'm not rewarding you with praises for 2nd place. But if you guys want to then hey, free country. I'm not comfortable doing that and that's that.

Please tell me how many rings have MJ and LeBron won being 25 years old? Were they Westbrook type of players before they had first ring? Btw, Luka is second best in points averaged in playoffs behind only MJ in Nba history.

MJ eventually won when they brought Pippen and LeBron had to change the team. I wonder how they couldn't win with bad teams?

[Bob8]

I find arkuos takes about Luka asinine, given he isn't usually asinine, my guess is that he's yanking your chain, your choice if you want to continue arguing with him, within the forum rules of course.

Arkuo and Daoneandondly are bashing/trolling about Luka the whole season, you just don't want to see it.

[Bob8]

I think part of the hate Luka gets is attitude-related. He's always whining at the refs and even talking trash to the other team rather than get back on D. There was the Utah game where he cost us the victory, and we saw him blaming teammates. Add his apathy to staying in shape; its understandable that fans are frustrated.

Finally admitting it. Good for you.

[Mavrelous]

I find arkuos takes about Luka asinine, given he isn't usually asinine, my guess is that he's yanking your chain, your choice if you want to continue arguing with him, within the forum rules of course.

Arkuo and Daoneandondly are bashing/trolling about Luka the whole season, you just don't want to see it.

I can see it perfectly, and you're defending him since the start of his Mavs tenure, we don't shut down discussions, it's your choice whether to engage in futile ones.

[Bob8]

I find arkuos takes about Luka asinine, given he isn't usually asinine, my guess is that he's yanking your chain, your choice if you want to continue arguing with him, within the forum rules of course.

Arkuo and Daoneandondly are bashing/trolling about Luka the whole season, you just don't want to see it.

I can see it perfectly, and you're defending him since the start of his Mavs tenure, we don't shut down discussions, it's your choice whether to engage in futile ones.

I'm defending player, who was 5 years in the row in first All Nba team with only 25 years. How many players achieved that in Nba history? It's hardly the same defending top 5 player in the league or hating/bashing top 5 player in Nba, who is playing in your team. You don't need to shut down discussion, but if someone is evidently trolling, you just can't defend him, if he receives some criticism. Quality of discussion on this board is going down all the time. Westbrook takes and even more laughable takes from other user for sure aren't helping to have normal discussion.

[Mavrelous]

I'm defending player, who was 5 years in the row in first All Nba team with only 25 years. How many players achieved that in Nba history? It's hardly the same defending top 5 player in the league or hating/bashing top 5 player in Nba, who is playing in your team. You don't need to shut down discussion, but if someone is evidently trolling, you just can't defend him, if he receives some criticism. Quality of discussion on this board is going down all the time. Westbrook takes and even more laughable takes from other user for sure aren't helping to have normal discussion.

Mavs built a good team for the 1st time last deadline, and Luka came into season clearly not in shape, it's an injury after injury with him, last season, he wasn't healthy all playoffs, people are frustrated, they voice their frustrations, this doesn't lower the quality of the board, this is what the board is for.
For Westbrook comments, I already said it was asinine, but I'm gonna ban outlandish opinons, but your choice if you want to keep the back and forth discussing a claim that is clearly not shared by anyone else.

[daoneandonly]

I'm defending player, who was 5 years in the row in first All Nba team with only 25 years. How many players achieved that in Nba history? It's hardly the same defending top 5 player in the league or hating/bashing top 5 player in Nba, who is playing in your team. You don't need to shut down discussion, but if someone is evidently trolling, you just can't defend him, if he receives some criticism. Quality of discussion on this board is going down all the time. Westbrook takes and even more laughable takes from other user for sure aren't helping to have normal discussion.

Mavs built a good team for the 1st time last deadline, and Luka came into season clearly not in shape, it's an injury after injury with him, last season, he wasn't healthy all playoffs, people are frustrated, they voice their frustrations, this doesn't lower the quality of the board, this is what the board is for.
For Westbrook comments, I already said it was asinine, but I'm gonna ban outlandish opinons, but your choice if you want to keep the back and forth discussing a claim that is clearly not shared by anyone else.

Thanks Khalil, this is exactly what it is, at least for the "other poster" Bob keeps mentioning. This team could be elite if our superstar were more serious, mature, and disciplined. Of course Mavs fans are annoyed, but fans of the player can't see that side, they have that right, free will God has blessed us all with.

But man, if the Mavs FO gave Dirk a team like this, he'd do wonders and we'd be perennial favorites every year

[Bob8]

I'm defending player, who was 5 years in the row in first All Nba team with only 25 years. How many players achieved that in Nba history? It's hardly the same defending top 5 player in the league or hating/bashing top 5 player in Nba, who is playing in your team. You don't need to shut down discussion, but if someone is evidently trolling, you just can't defend him, if he receives some criticism. Quality of discussion on this board is going down all the time. Westbrook takes and even more laughable takes from other user for sure aren't helping to have normal discussion.

Mavs built a good team for the 1st time last deadline, and Luka came into season clearly not in shape, it's an injury after injury with him, last season, he wasn't healthy all playoffs, people are frustrated, they voice their frustrations, this doesn't lower the quality of the board, this is what the board is for.
For Westbrook comments, I already said it was asinine, but I'm gonna ban outlandish opinons, but your choice if you want to keep the back and forth discussing a claim that is clearly not shared by anyone else.

Thanks Khalil, this is exactly what it is, at least for the "other poster" Bob keeps mentioning. This team could be elite if our superstar were more serious, mature, and disciplined. Of course Mavs fans are annoyed, but fans of the player can't see that side, they have that right, free will God has blessed us all with.

But man, if the Mavs FO gave Dirk a team like this, he'd do wonders and we'd be perennial favorites every year

If I'm not mistaken Dirk had pretty good team, good enough for 67 wins in RS in 2007, and went out in round #1 in playoffs. He was labelled as soft Euro for a big part of his career, but with a ring everything was forgotten, rightly so.

[arkuo]

Mavs built a good team for the 1st time last deadline, and Luka came into season clearly not in shape, it's an injury after injury with him, last season, he wasn't healthy all playoffs, people are frustrated, they voice their frustrations, this doesn't lower the quality of the board, this is what the board is for.
For Westbrook comments, I already said it was asinine, but I'm gonna ban outlandish opinons, but your choice if you want to keep the back and forth discussing a claim that is clearly not shared by anyone else.

Thanks Khalil, this is exactly what it is, at least for the "other poster" Bob keeps mentioning. This team could be elite if our superstar were more serious, mature, and disciplined. Of course Mavs fans are annoyed, but fans of the player can't see that side, they have that right, free will God has blessed us all with.

But man, if the Mavs FO gave Dirk a team like this, he'd do wonders and we'd be perennial favorites every year

If I'm not mistaken Dirk had pretty good team, good enough for 67 wins in RS in 2007, and went out in round #1 in playoffs.

Luka has to be measured in a different way than Dirk. Youngest to ever do this and that, Euroleague MVP hotshot. Could probably sink a stepback jumper as soon as he came out of the womb. 6-time All NBA First team, baby! Chest thump! Let's go! Dirk is a midget of a superstar compared to Luka for sure. Luka's the hottest thing to come out ot Europe. Dirk bombs out of the 1st round, he gets a pass. Luka, with everything his fans say about him, has to be measured in a different way then. Could probably surpass Bill Russell's ring count when all is said and done. Luka could probably walk on water if he wanted to. Dirk is barely that.

Like I said, when the team wins, it cant be Luka this and Luka thr GOAT. But when the team loses, its all on the coach or his teammates. You just have double standards if you measure him like that.

[Bob8]

Thanks Khalil, this is exactly what it is, at least for the "other poster" Bob keeps mentioning. This team could be elite if our superstar were more serious, mature, and disciplined. Of course Mavs fans are annoyed, but fans of the player can't see that side, they have that right, free will God has blessed us all with.

But man, if the Mavs FO gave Dirk a team like this, he'd do wonders and we'd be perennial favorites every year

If I'm not mistaken Dirk had pretty good team, good enough for 67 wins in RS in 2007, and went out in round #1 in playoffs.

Luka has to be measured in a different way than Dirk. Youngest to ever do this and that, Euroleague MVP hotshot. Could probably sink a stepback jumper as soon as he came out of the womb. 6-time All NBA First team, baby! Chest thump! Let's go! Dirk is a midget of a superstar compared to Luka for sure. Luka's the hottest thing to come out ot Europe. Dirk bombs out of the 1st round, he gets a pass. Luka, with everything his fans say about him, has to be measured in a different way then. Could probably surpass Bill Russell's ring count when all is said and done. Dirk is barely that.

Like I said, when the team wins, it cant be Luka this and Luka that. But when the team loses, its all on the coach or his teammates. You just have double standards if you measure him like that.

Every star, the GOAT himself, needed a good team foremost to win something. That's why vast majority of stars needed 5+ years to win something. Saying that Luka should have won something with Powell as staring C or Lively as a rookie is totally unrealistic. End even this year, there are at least 2 teams with clearly better roster.

I would say that Luka had pretty good Nba career till now with some team success too. Winning the ring is the ultimate goal of course. I believe he will eventually win it, not necessarily with Mavs.