Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[XTraderXL]

1. Doncic had, well deserved, time off till mid avgust. It’s kinda unrealistic to expect he will look totally different in 1.5 months. Next year with around 5 months time will be crucial for his body transformation and even then he will be only 20 years old. He should look much better in 3 years time.
2. Do some people here really believe he can come in Nba and take keys from day 1? That would be great way to start on a bad note with some teammates. Even in Real he needed Llull’s injury to become frontman. Luka should be judged as rookie in his first season.

I said in my previous posts that next summer and season will be much more telling than this one because he will have more time to work on his weaknesses. Thats why I keep saying its possible he will become a great player eventually. But for right now I can only go by what evidence we have and nobody can deny that at this moment he looks heavy and slow. Luka just has that kind of body type that will need extra work and good nutrition to be in great shape. We can be hopeful that he will get in shape but its all speculation, you simply cant know that. What we know for certain is that he will improve his skills but his body is another matter.

This season he will see what he needs to work on, until now he never played against NBA level competition on a regular basis. In EL there are players who could play in the NBA but those players would be 9th-12th men and Luka will be playing against starters and superstars which is a whole other level.

[Archx]

I am still not sold he's a franchise player moving forward. Doncic is Doncic. Luka could be a new Magic Johnson or a PF version of Kidd. .

Sry but had to comment on this. Because if Luka becomes PF version of Kidd then he will challenge Duncan for the best PF of all time
Not sure if you forgot or what but Kidd is a HOF and is one of the best floor generals ever. And if Luka becomes all that in a PF body, then no one will be able to stop him.

[Bob8]

I have no doubt that Doncic will be in much better shape in few years time, but imho his shooting is much more important for his chances to be very good Nba player. He will never be athletic freek, but if he becomes 40% 3 point shooter, he will be with his playmaking, vision, handles, IQ and big body, multiple all-star.

[XTraderXL]

I have no doubt that Doncic will be in much better shape in few years time, but imho his shooting is much more important for his chances to be very good Nba player. He will never be athletic freek, but if he becomes 40% 3 point shooter, he will be with his playmaking, vision, handles, IQ and big body, multiple all-star.

Again, thats pure speculation. So far we havent seen any evidence that he will be in a much better shape. He was in better shape at the start of last season than he is now so...

He will only become a good/great 3pt shooter if he gets himself in shape so this is all connected. I have been saying for months that his shot efficiency depends on what physical condition he is in. His fitness is not as one dimensional as just that he will be a better slasher, his shot is very dependent on it. Last season he was shoothing very well until February. After that he started gaining weight, became slower, couldnt jump and the form and lift on his shot changed for the worst. Thats when you can see his % start dropping and his overll game became much worse. Thats why it is so important for him to be at least average athletically and also to be in as good shape as possible.

So basically we all agree on most things. Some people believe that he will definitely improve on those things enough to become a superstar or close to it while others want to wait and see if he has the discipline to get there. I dont doubt its possible, I have seen what good training and disciplined diet can do for a player but we just dont know if Luka has it in him to actually get there. In the NBA nobody pushes you to work out individually. Teams provide the knowledge, staff and equipment but the players need to have it in them to schedule workouts and show up so this is all up to the players.

[Bob8]

I have no doubt that Doncic will be in much better shape in few years time, but imho his shooting is much more important for his chances to be very good Nba player. He will never be athletic freek, but if he becomes 40% 3 point shooter, he will be with his playmaking, vision, handles, IQ and big body, multiple all-star.

Again, thats pure speculation. So far we havent seen any evidence that he will be in a much better shape. He was in better shape at the start of last season than he is now so...

He will only become a good/great 3pt shooter if he gets himself in shape so this is all connected. I have been saying for months that his shot efficiency depends on what physical condition he is in. His fitness is not as one dimensional as just that he will be a better slasher, his shot is very dependent on it. Last season he was shoothing very well until February. After that he started gaining weight, became slower, couldnt jump and the form and lift on his shot changed for the worst. Thats when you can see his % start dropping and his overll game became much worse. Thats why it is so important for him to be at least average athletically and also to be in as good shape as possible.

So basically we all agree on most things. Some people believe that he will definitely improve on those things enough to become a superstar or close to it while others want to wait and see if he has the discipline to get there. I dont doubt its possible, I have seen what good training and disciplined diet can do for a player but we just dont know if Luka has it in him to actually get there. In the NBA nobody pushes you to work out individually. Teams provide the knowledge, staff and equipment but the players need to have it in them to schedule workouts and show up so this is all up to the players.

yes, but for all this you primarily need time. Luka is 19 years old and in many aspects of the game much ahead of the curve. he’s behind only in getting in shape. that basically means, he has a lot of time to work on specific part of his game. but I agree, without full commitment nobody can do anything significant. we will see in 3-5 years time for sure.

[thr3ep01nte4]

I never said he will get shut down, he is too talented and versatile for that to happen. Even if he doesnt improve his body and athelticism, he will be a good player. What I am trying to say is that his ceiling will be limited if he doesnt improve on that significantly. I think it can be done but it will take time and lots of work and I simply dont know if he has the discipline to do it. I am sceptical based on what he did this summer and how his body looks. People would be surprised about how much you can do in this area in 2-3 months of hard work and to me he looks like he just didnt work hard enough. There was nothing I saw in this game that I havent seen from him before in terms of individual skill. People rave about his performance but he has been doing the same thing agains way better competition than the Ducks for years now. Thats why I cant wait to see how he does against Philly. I think the game will be quite competitive.

Chill bro. I'm agreeing with you here, alright?

[Clyde Frazier]

The internet is a **** place. When he pulled off that absurd of balance shot off the glass in the paint, you had people saying "if he has to do that against a Chinese team just to get a shot off, how's he gonna hack against NBA players?"

Like seriously, now i've heard it all... bleh

[XTraderXL]

The internet is a **** place. When he pulled off that absurd of balance shot off the glass in the paint, you had people saying "if he has to do that against a Chinese team just to get a shot off, how's he gonna hack against NBA players?"

Like seriously, now i've heard it all... bleh

The only absurd thing is that he has to shot those shots consistently against bigs because he cant get a step on them. Apparently you havent watched any games of his last season and you only go by highlights. You will be surprised how often he has to shoot those kinds of shots when he should be taking easier ones...

Now go watch his full gams rather then trying to sound smart, then we can have a serious discussion....bleh

[Clyde Frazier]

The internet is a **** place. When he pulled off that absurd of balance shot off the glass in the paint, you had people saying "if he has to do that against a Chinese team just to get a shot off, how's he gonna hack against NBA players?"

Like seriously, now i've heard it all... bleh

The only absurd thing is that he has to shot those shots consistently against bigs because he cant get a step on them. Apparently you havent watched any games of his last season and you only go by highlights. You will be surprised how often he has to shoot those kinds of shots when he should be taking easier ones...

Now go watch his full gams rather then trying to sound smart, then we can have a serious discussion....bleh

I get it. He isn't quick. Wouldn't be the first player to succeed without elite athleticism. I'm not trying to "sound smart". I'm pointing out people making snap judgments about a guy playing 1 game against a chinese pro team need to chill.

He's 19 years old. The jury won't be out on the guy for like 3 seasons unless it's an anthony bennett situation or something.

[XTraderXL]

The internet is a **** place. When he pulled off that absurd of balance shot off the glass in the paint, you had people saying "if he has to do that against a Chinese team just to get a shot off, how's he gonna hack against NBA players?"

Like seriously, now i've heard it all... bleh

The only absurd thing is that he has to shot those shots consistently against bigs because he cant get a step on them. Apparently you havent watched any games of his last season and you only go by highlights. You will be surprised how often he has to shoot those kinds of shots when he should be taking easier ones...

Now go watch his full gams rather then trying to sound smart, then we can have a serious discussion....bleh

I get it. He isn't quick. Wouldn't be the first player to succeed without elite athleticism. I'm not trying to "sound smart". I'm pointing out people making snap judgments about a guy playing 1 game against a chinese pro team need to chill.

He's 19 years old. The jury won't be out on the guy for like 3 seasons unless it's an anthony bennett situation or something.

Its not just one game, he had the same issues in the EL and even in ACB. Most of his shots are contested because he cant create space and it will be even tougher in the NBA. At least in Dallas he will not have to create everything for himself like he had to do in Real but creating your own shot consistently is one of the most important things for a player thats supposed to be a franchise guy.

He will get better for sure, the question is how much and will that be enough for him to become the franchise as advertised.

[J_T]

The only absurd thing is that he has to shot those shots consistently against bigs because he cant get a step on them. Apparently you havent watched any games of his last season and you only go by highlights. You will be surprised how often he has to shoot those kinds of shots when he should be taking easier ones...

Now go watch his full gams rather then trying to sound smart, then we can have a serious discussion....bleh

I get it. He isn't quick. Wouldn't be the first player to succeed without elite athleticism. I'm not trying to "sound smart". I'm pointing out people making snap judgments about a guy playing 1 game against a chinese pro team need to chill.

He's 19 years old. The jury won't be out on the guy for like 3 seasons unless it's an anthony bennett situation or something.

Its not just one game, he had the same issues in the EL and even in ACB. Most of his shots are contested because he cant create space and it will be even tougher in the NBA. At least in Dallas he will not have to create everything for himself like he had to do in Real but creating your own shot consistently is one of the most important things for a player thats supposed to be a franchise guy.

He will get better for sure, the question is how much and will that be enough for him to become the franchise as advertised.

I am going to present this video, I think it's instructional.

Watch on YouTube

What I am NOT claiming is:

- that Doncic is as explosive/quick as Harden
- that Doncic's playing ability is at Harden's level
- that Doncic is guaranteed to reach Harden's level
- that Doncic's playing style is identical to Harden's playing style
- that Doncic shouldn't lose some fat to be more agile

I think that the disclaimers are not going to help, but hey - I tried.

What I AM claiming is:

- Harden is not extremely athletic
- 90% of Harden's shots are contested
- Harden's a "king of de-acceleration" as the video says and Doncic is close to elite in same element.
- Harden loves his step back and he was shooting 45% from step back 3's before the playoffs began last season. Doncic loves it too. People love saying that it will never work in NBA and yet Harden does with impunity.
- His main weapon are "moves", "fakes", long steps and de-acceleration.
- Not only that almost all of his 2-pointers are contested, they are usually heavily contested, they look almost "ugly", and often he seriously takes the body. If it was Doncic in these clips I somehow think you'd say that he is not able to get past defenders and that this can't work in NBA. A lot of Harden's shots LOOK like they are low % shots but what I have been saying is that they are not actually low % shots.
- Harden loves his floaters and so does Doncic. Again, these are not low % shots, they are high % shots, especially for a 6-8 guy.

A lot of people have been saying that the way Harden plays it just doesn't make sense that he couldn't be stopped. There must be a way to stop him and every armchair GM has a bag of ideas how they would stop him. And yet he is unstoppable.

Doncic will be fine. In fact I have to say that before I watched the video again, I was not expecting to see so many similarities... for most of the plays Harden makes in the video, I could probably find identical play Doncic did, against worse opposition, but nevertheless. Some of the stuff Harden does is a direct consequence of bad matchup after screens and I am sure that Doncic would be able to exploit those same matchups.

[wolfram]

Bottom line is we should not worry about him at all. He will figure it out what works best for him. Or he just won't be the player he wants to be. That's it. He has the tools and skill even if not a great athlete. Combination of size, skill, body control, agility and speed he is an unique player. Man, we should not invest ourselves so much into it...

On a side note, he got way past Justin Hamilton but Luka gathered the ball because smaller defender reached. Only two steps left, jumping with the right leg, hence this shot. That tells me three things. He will have to work on ball handling/footwork in traffic to the rim, work on his body obviously, and that he has elite touch and body control, what I already knew.

[Rn5ho]

The only absurd thing is that he has to shot those shots consistently against bigs because he cant get a step on them. Apparently you havent watched any games of his last season and you only go by highlights. You will be surprised how often he has to shoot those kinds of shots when he should be taking easier ones...

Now go watch his full gams rather then trying to sound smart, then we can have a serious discussion....bleh

I get it. He isn't quick. Wouldn't be the first player to succeed without elite athleticism. I'm not trying to "sound smart". I'm pointing out people making snap judgments about a guy playing 1 game against a chinese pro team need to chill.

He's 19 years old. The jury won't be out on the guy for like 3 seasons unless it's an anthony bennett situation or something.

Its not just one game, he had the same issues in the EL and even in ACB. Most of his shots are contested because he cant create space and it will be even tougher in the NBA. At least in Dallas he will not have to create everything for himself like he had to do in Real but creating your own shot consistently is one of the most important things for a player thats supposed to be a franchise guy.

He will get better for sure, the question is how much and will that be enough for him to become the franchise as advertised.

You're like a broken record now.. we get it, you don't like Luka's physical condition and you think he's too slow and he can't slash past any big. You don't need to repeat the same thing 4-5 times on every page of this topic.

Luka didn't slash past centers consistently in EL because the court is smaller and there's no 3s rule - so the paint is ALWAYS packed up. Luka is big and not the most athletic player around, but he is super crafty and these off-balance shots and floaters are his bread and butter - so maybe you go watch some full games and you will realize that he's been making these kind of shots with very high % all season long and that this against the Ducks was not some lucky coincidence?

Luka is not a 1-2 year project where he has to buckle up and spend 3-4 months 24/7 in fitness just to please some fans - he's a long term project who's about to make one of the biggest changes/transitions in his life - it has to be done slowly, if you try to completely change him and his body/game over a very short period of time, he will simply bust out/won't deliver what people expect of him - he simply won't be comfortable in that role - let him play his game. He was NEVER a slasher, so why should he suddenly over the course of 2-3 months become one?! On what basis?! "If he went to fitness 2 times per day, he would be slashing past centers now with ease" - yeah, sure.

Seriously, cut him some slack. He's 19 years old, he has some of the best staff around him working on his transition, body and conditioning and I'm 100% sure they put down some longer term plan on how they want him to be in season 2, 3 and beyond. They don't care as much about season 1 - this is the transition season, Mavs are not contending anyway.


BTW, this was Harden in the middle of August:

Read on Twitter

[Popovich]

Hey people. I just wanted to congratulate Dallas for bringing and choosing Luka. I was the one of the members of this forum who was defending his high draft pick position and always believed that he really has the bright future. I knew that predictions for him are serious even since Serbian NT tried to persuade him to choose Serbian over Slovenian national team. His mother who is Slovenian, BTW, played a major role then and he decided to thank Slovenia as a country for bringing him up as a player and after short period of evaluation he made, what it turned out to be, a right decision to pick Slovenia. As we know he won the gold medal at last EC but now Slovenia will fail to qualify for WC in China , mainly because he and Dragic were unavailable to play for their NT.

Regarding your little quarrel here.. I think that players physicality , muscle and power were always one of the biggest factors of success in NBA and this is specially in modern times. However, in my mind I would rate it as not the most important part of the game simply because the players who are pure athletesand without good basic basketball fundamental skills tend to be less successful than the players with opposite characteristic. And you can find many examples that prove my argument right.

I mean, as you could saw in his debut game, it is hard to find a weak spot in his game. I think the main challenge for him will be overcoming a pressure of him meeting those high expectations. Dallas fans should be easy on him as he is young and still growing so you should avoid making too much of a buzz around him like LAL fans did with Lonzo. Beside that of course his translation to NBA style is another very important aspect .

However he is not a LAL Ball and I think he will handle it as he already faced so many important games back in Europe and as I remember he was thriving in big pressure games. It is crucial that he keeps his mindset firm even after having a bad game which is inevitable for any player, specially for a rookie.

[Archx]

Meh, i think both sides are right. People defending his body shape and people who are saying he has to go to the gym ASAP. I mean there is a reason why every rookie works out like a horse before start of the 2nd year. He has to go through the whole process and see for himself what it takes to be a star in this league. I am confident that before the next season starts, he will look a lot different and quite a bit more athletic. I mean even during this season there is a high chance he will lose fat % because of constant playing. Just hoping he doesn't run out of air.

[Rn5ho]

The thing is, nobody is defending his shape.. just pointing out that it's not everything and is not a process done over night. That's all. he has a lot more to give and show and better shape will come eventually - he has elite staff for that.

[wolfram]

They are starting to jump on the bandwagon. Pierce had little good to say about Luka before and after the draft. Probably he has never watched him play, just regular european stereotype. Rachel mentioned Luka many times before so thumbs up for her

Watch on YouTube

[Mr B]

After reading most of this thread you would think that Luka is less athletic and has less explosion than Shawn Bradley.

So how is Trae Young doing so far?

[Jstock12]

Comparing Luka (or at least some of the aspects of his game) to Harden makes sense to me. But we shouldn't forget that Harden might be the craftiest player in the history of the game, which is a HUGE part of his success. And while Doncic isn't a slouch in that department either, I'm not sure if he'll ever get even close to Harden's level of craftiness. Let's hope he will though!

[Jstock12]

After reading most of this thread you would think that Luka is less athletic and has less explosion than Shawn Bradley.

So how is Trae Young doing so far?

I think we should stop comparing Doncic to Trae Young. We need to hold Luka to a higher standard