Game 20 December 4, 2010: Mavericks at Kings

[Nom De Guerre]

The video shows what happened. Dirk got his hand on the pass. That's why Terry said it. I'm not sure what's complicated. Clearly there is a difference between what is actually happening and what you're perceiving in your head. You might want to get that looked in to. I can't imagine what kind of warped life you must live.

That video I posted does not show Dirk touching the ball at all...in fact, Dirk's arms never even went up. Dirk touched the ball before Landry caught the pass from Cousins. And you are the only one perceiving anything in your head.

But it is clear, as I said before, you have no clue what you are talking about and only arguing now because you were proven wrong and your pride must be hurt. Sorry. You want to make blank accusations at me, you better be prepared as I can back my statements up.

Edit: See...this is as high as Dirk's hands got. Barely above his head. The ball is about 3-4 feet above his head. Yet you say video shows he "got his hand on the pass."

I'm the only one? Well, and Jason Terry, apparently...

[JES12]

You are dumber than a box of rocks. Once again, I could say "Terry dunked the ball and Chandler stopped Landry"....that does not mean that Terry dunked the ball had anything to do with Chandler stopping Landry.

You probably should go to bed now before your mom realizes you are on the computer.

[Nom De Guerre]

You are dumber than a box of rocks. Once again, I could say "Terry dunked the ball and Chandler stopped Landry"....that does not mean that Terry dunked the ball had anything to do with Chandler stopping Landry.

You probably should go to bed now before your mom realizes you are on the computer.

Again, I'm not saying anything...I'm talking about a direct quote from Jason Terry...who was actually on the court when it happened. Why do you think he'd say Dirk got a hand on the pass leading to his steal if it didn't happen?

[JES12]

Again, I'm not saying anything...I'm talking about a direct quote from Jason Terry...who was actually on the court when it happened. Why do you think he'd say Dirk got a hand on the pass leading to his steal if it didn't happen?

“Dirk got his hand on the pass, I rotated and was in the right spot at the right time,” Terry said.

Those are not saying the same thing. For the 3rd and final time, I could say "Terry dunked the ball and Chandler stopped Landry"....that does not mean that Terry dunked the ball had anything to do with Chandler stopping Landry no more than Dirk touching the ball before Landry drove into Chandler had anything to do with a turnover.

[dyukcs]

I don't understand what Nom is saying lol, are you claiming that Dirk deflected the pass that Terry got possession of? Because that's false. Dirk deflected the pass aimed at Landry, that Landry still got. I don't think it's inconsequential, that bought Dirk enough time to close on him, and then Landry tried to drive past him but he and Chandler trapped him.

Then Terry intercepted the pass all by himself, none of that is really debatable if you watch a replay.

I didn't watch the 1st quarter though so idk how bad it may have been then.

[Deus]

Jes is right, Dirk didn't touch the ball. Terry was mis-quoted. I think he was talking about the play before when Dirk tipped it to JJ.

[DDansby123]

Whether JES is right or wrong on the Dirk deflection thing is immaterial as far as I'm concerned. He's absolutely right about Dirk's defensive lapses, and that's far more important. We seem to discuss Dirk's defensive improvement a lot on other boards, but the fact is, while improved, his team defense is still mediocre at best. His one-on-one defense is better, if not above average. Right now, his offense is so incredible, and his teammates' defense good enough, that I don't care. If that changes, however, and his defense doesn't improve, Dirk should be called to task on that. Team defense is still critical to this team's success.

[Nom De Guerre]

Whether JES is right or wrong on the Dirk deflection thing is immaterial as far as I'm concerned. He's absolutely right about Dirk's defensive lapses, and that's far more important. We seem to discuss Dirk's defensive improvement a lot on other boards, but the fact is, while improved, his team defense is still mediocre at best. His one-on-one defense is better, if not above average. Right now, his offense is so incredible, and his teammates' defense good enough, that I don't care. If that changes, however, and his defense doesn't improve, Dirk should be called to task on that. Team defense is still critical to this team's success.

Is that the Mavs give up 14 more points per 100 possessions when Dirk is on the bench? This is strictly from a defensive standpoint. Go ahead with your excuses. Dirk's defense has been nothing short of great this year.

[DDansby123]

Is that the Mavs give up 14 more points per 100 possessions when Dirk is on the bench? This is strictly from a defensive standpoint. Go ahead with your excuses. Dirk's defense has been nothing short of great this year.

Dirk's greatest impact on our defense this year has been the fact that he puts the ball in the basket when he's on the court. Here's what that does for our defense (among other things): (1) allows our defense to setup, and (2) prevents easy fast break opportunities.

That has more to do with the number you quoted than Dirk's actual defensive play. I'm sorry, but I've watched Dirk play since he came into the league. While there's no question his defense is better, it's still terrible (team-wise) at times. And let's not get into the excuses about "he spends all his energy on offense" or "he plays defense when he really needs to," because those don't cut it in the playoffs. I think Dirk's great, but he hasn't been great defensively this year or any other.

[Nom De Guerre]

Is that the Mavs give up 14 more points per 100 possessions when Dirk is on the bench? This is strictly from a defensive standpoint. Go ahead with your excuses. Dirk's defense has been nothing short of great this year.

Dirk's greatest impact on our defense this year has been the fact that he puts the ball in the basket when he's on the court. Here's what that does for our defense (among other things): (1) allows our defense to setup, and (2) prevents easy fast break opportunities.

That has more to do with the number you quoted than Dirk's actual defensive play. I'm sorry, but I've watched Dirk play since he came into the league. While there's no question his defense is better, it's still terrible (team-wise) at times. And let's not get into the excuses about "he spends all his energy on offense" or "he plays defense when he really needs to," because those don't cut it in the playoffs. I think Dirk's great, but he hasn't been great defensively this year or any other.

I've seen Dirk since he came into the league as well, and every single defensive stat (in addition to actually watching the games) staunchly disagrees with you. But I guess somehow your anecdotal evidence is more accurate than mine coupled with literally every defensive stat you can think of (Drtg, On/Off, plus/minus, defensive win shares, opponent's PER, etc.)

[DDansby123]

I've seen Dirk since he came into the league as well, and every single defensive stat (in addition to actually watching the games) staunchly disagrees with you. But I guess somehow your anecdotal evidence is more accurate than mine coupled with literally every defensive stat you can think of (Drtg, On/Off, plus/minus, defensive win shares, opponent's PER, etc.)

So you're using an extremely small sample size of stats that don't directly measure a player's defense to argue that Dirk's been great defensively this year? Quite frankly, yes, I think my anecdotal evidence has more weight than that. Look through those stats and how each one is determined, and you'll see for yourself that measuring an individual's defensive impact is extremely difficult when you rely VERY heavily on TEAM statistcs.

Take Dirk's DRtg as an example. This stat suggests Dirk was better defensively his first two years in the league than he has been this year. I can't think of anyone in their right mind who would agree with that. Heck, if your theory is that Dirk is a great defender based on the stats you quoted, you must also believe that Dirk has ALWAYS been a great defender. Hogwash.

Beyond that, 82games has Dirk's OppPER at BELOW the league average, not above it. Of course, I don't think OppPER is an accurate measure of an individual's defensive prowess anyway.

What the stats suggest to me is that the team is very good defensively this year and that Dirk is a part of that. But you're suggesting that because the stats for the team are good (and those stats are what is used to derive most of the individual stats), then Dirk must be good also....coupled with your own anecdotal evidence, naturally.

We'll agree to disagree.