Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[Archx]

A lot of people on here have been critical of a Dragic trade, but I will take him over DSJ ten times out of ten. He’s just as good on defense, I trust him to make open jumpers and threes at a higher clip, I can’t see him complaining about a lack of touches, and he would be a better locker room guy. Get rid of the egos while you can still get something for them. Thank god this team has a lot of expiring contracts too.

Why would someone be critical of Dragic trade? Luka is like a younger brother to him, these two would do wonders for the Mavs. I would trade DSJ and Wes + 100$ for Dragic.

But seriously, Brunson is much better with Luka than DSJ, thats evident. And since this team will go nowhere with these vets, may as well get some young players who can grow together and just rebuild from scratch. At least it will be fun watching.

[Absinthe]

So this team is made of bunch of players who will be gone next season.
A question for those familiar with the Mavericks: How many young players they developed into great players under Carlisle? Besides Dirk.

Not many. Dwight Powell has done well. They also did a decent job with Brandon Wright and Josh Howard (before he fell off of a cliff). Then they have majors whiffs like Beaubois, Larkin, and Crowder.

[arkuo]

So this team is made of bunch of players who will be gone next season.
A question for those familiar with the Mavericks: How many young players they developed into great players under Carlisle? Besides Dirk.

Carlisle never had young players around Dirk. Cuban always had a plan to have a revolving door of vets or ring chasers every year to keep his damn plan powder dry. Keeping his cap space open to try to sign Dwight Howard etc. Even passing on Giannis in the draft.

The first of the young guys that Carlisle had was probably Dennis and Nerlens. Nerlens didnt work out obviously. Carlisle has a short leash for rookies. Donnie had to tell him to extend his patience with Dennis last year. Carlisle is the type who was on Jason Kidd's ear during his time here. That's 18 year NBA veteran Jason Kidd. Imagine what he'd do to a rookie if they committed a mistake.

[Absinthe]

A lot of people on here have been critical of a Dragic trade, but I will take him over DSJ ten times out of ten. He’s just as good on defense, I trust him to make open jumpers and threes at a higher clip, I can’t see him complaining about a lack of touches, and he would be a better locker room guy. Get rid of the egos while you can still get something for them. Thank god this team has a lot of expiring contracts too.

I don't think anybody doubts Dragic's ability to contribute right now. The question is, how much time of high level play does he have left? I think he is past his prime and his value will only go down, and his ability to produce will drop (is dropping slightly) aswell. Onthe other hand, DSJ can't get any worse if you ask me, he is still a raw prospect with a high cieling.

Even if Dragic loses a step, he’ll still be able to shoot. DSJ will likely never develop into a knock down shooter. Sometimes you win a trade solely on what you’re getting now and the future chemistry. If DSJ ends up being Beaubois 2.0 in five years will the Mavs have been better off with Dragic? I think so.

[J_T]

Dragic trade makes sense only for teams that would become contenders if they get Dragic right now. Nobody is going to trade for Dragic because of his contribution in 2 years time.

[daoneandonly]

A lot of people on here have been critical of a Dragic trade, but I will take him over DSJ ten times out of ten. He’s just as good on defense, I trust him to make open jumpers and threes at a higher clip, I can’t see him complaining about a lack of touches, and he would be a better locker room guy. Get rid of the egos while you can still get something for them. Thank god this team has a lot of expiring contracts too.

Why would someone be critical of Dragic trade? Luka is like a younger brother to him, these two would do wonders for the Mavs. I would trade DSJ and Wes + 100$ for Dragic.

But seriously, Brunson is much better with Luka than DSJ, thats evident. And since this team will go nowhere with these vets, may as well get some young players who can grow together and just rebuild from scratch. At least it will be fun watching.

because he's old and breaking down. Why would we trade a young prospect for an old guy that does not come close to moving the needle?

Curious, what makes you think Brunson is a good fit, or even good player? I live in the DC area so dont see much mavs game,s but the little I did watch he's looked just meh, I mean he's a rookie and a 2nd rounder so hopes arent high, but I dont see the winner all the announcers keep raving about

[Rn5ho]

Dragic trade makes sense only for teams that would become contenders if they get Dragic right now. Nobody is going to trade for Dragic because of his contribution in 2 years time.

Dragic is UFA in 2 years time (2020) tho

I'd obviously love to see Goran on Dallas, but I don't see any way of this happening at all. This would also mean DSJ would be gone and ball would also not be any more in Luka's hands (thought at least chemistry between Luka and Goran is already existing).

[J_T]

Why would Dallas get him? Because the team would've been better with him? I will grant you that, the team would have had more wins with Dragic than with DSJ THIS season. But I think it's irrelevant, if that hurts the team after 2020.

Dragic would make much more sense in Philly than in Dallas.

[agentofatlas]

Dragic? Really?

The one thing this team needs is young talent and you want to trade our only other young player for an old point guard?

[Archx]

A lot of people on here have been critical of a Dragic trade, but I will take him over DSJ ten times out of ten. He’s just as good on defense, I trust him to make open jumpers and threes at a higher clip, I can’t see him complaining about a lack of touches, and he would be a better locker room guy. Get rid of the egos while you can still get something for them. Thank god this team has a lot of expiring contracts too.

Why would someone be critical of Dragic trade? Luka is like a younger brother to him, these two would do wonders for the Mavs. I would trade DSJ and Wes + 100$ for Dragic.

But seriously, Brunson is much better with Luka than DSJ, thats evident. And since this team will go nowhere with these vets, may as well get some young players who can grow together and just rebuild from scratch. At least it will be fun watching.

because he's old and breaking down. Why would we trade a young prospect for an old guy that does not come close to moving the needle?

Curious, what makes you think Brunson is a good fit, or even good player? I live in the DC area so dont see much mavs game,s but the little I did watch he's looked just meh, I mean he's a rookie and a 2nd rounder so hopes arent high, but I dont see the winner all the announcers keep raving about

I like Brunson because he is an actual PG who also works hard on D. Plus he is a willing passer and with more confidence, i think he can be a lot better 3pt shooter than DSJ. He and Luka had a really good chemistry when they both started vs Toronto.

[Absinthe]

Dragic? Really?

The one thing this team needs is young talent and you want to trade our only other young player for an old point guard?

Young talent is a waste if they don’t show major improvement. It’s not like DSJ is on the same level as Lillard or Mitchell. He’s not even remotely as good as those two and his ceiling is probably closer to someone like Shroder.

[daoneandonly]

Dragic? Really?

The one thing this team needs is young talent and you want to trade our only other young player for an old point guard?

Young talent is a waste if they don’t show major improvement. It’s not like DSJ is on the same level as Lillard or Mitchell. He’s not even remotely as good as those two and his ceiling is probably closer to someone like Shroder.

Disagree, Mitchell was an outlier with respect to rookie production, and not a PG at that. PGs take time to develop, really no reason to write DSJ off this quickly.

[arkuo]

So I've been watching Philly games lately and noticed Ben Simmons is slotted at SG opposite Markelle Fultz at PG. Although during the game its Simmons who is playing point and Fultz playing off ball. The same setup can be adapted here. I do think Luka can slot in at the SG spot and play point guard for the game. Smith playing off ball and Wesley adding offense off the bench.

C- Deandre Jordan
PF- Dorian Finney Smith
SF- Harrison Barnes
SG- Luka Doncic
PG- Dennis Smith Jr

Maybe that would work? DFS can be effective without the ball. Wesley can't. I think it can.

Maybe next summer we sign a full time PF via free agency.

[XTraderXL]

Dragic? Really?

The one thing this team needs is young talent and you want to trade our only other young player for an old point guard?

Young talent is a waste if they don’t show major improvement. It’s not like DSJ is on the same level as Lillard or Mitchell. He’s not even remotely as good as those two and his ceiling is probably closer to someone like Shroder.

Disagree, Mitchell was an outlier with respect to rookie production, and not a PG at that. PGs take time to develop, really no reason to write DSJ off this quickly.

You cant force a player to be something he is not and DSJ is not an NBA level PG. He just doesnt understands the game well enough to be a good PG on the NBA level. A PG has to be the player who is the best suited for the role and not a player who is put in that position solely because of his size. DSJ is best suited at the 2, he will still get more than enough shots which will most likely be easier than the shots he is taking now. Carlisle should at least experiment with Doncic at the point for a couple of games and DSJ at SG to see how the offense looks. I think DSJs ceiling at SG 2 is much higher than at PG so they should put him there right away. At the very least they DSJ and Doncic should split the time at the position more equally...

[daoneandonly]

Young talent is a waste if they don’t show major improvement. It’s not like DSJ is on the same level as Lillard or Mitchell. He’s not even remotely as good as those two and his ceiling is probably closer to someone like Shroder.

Disagree, Mitchell was an outlier with respect to rookie production, and not a PG at that. PGs take time to develop, really no reason to write DSJ off this quickly.

You cant force a player to be something he is not and DSJ is not an NBA level PG. He just doesnt understands the game well enough to be a good PG on the NBA level. A PG has to be the player who is the best suited for the role and not a player who is put in that position solely because of his size. DSJ is best suited at the 2, he will still get more than enough shots which will most likely be easier than the shots he is taking now. Carlisle should at least experiment with Doncic at the point for a couple of games and DSJ at SG to see how the offense looks. I think DSJs ceiling at SG 2 is much higher than at PG so they should put him there right away. At the very least they DSJ and Doncic should split the time at the position more equally...

I'm all for playing Luka at the 1 offensively and Dennis at the 2, my thing is the calls for trading DSj so quickly is nonsense. Again, he's far from untouchable, but no way would I trade him for a Mikal bridges or Frank Ntkinna as been suggested here. I'd trade him for a guy like Beal (especially if Wes was included to match salary) or jaylen brown however.

[XTraderXL]

Disagree, Mitchell was an outlier with respect to rookie production, and not a PG at that. PGs take time to develop, really no reason to write DSJ off this quickly.

You cant force a player to be something he is not and DSJ is not an NBA level PG. He just doesnt understands the game well enough to be a good PG on the NBA level. A PG has to be the player who is the best suited for the role and not a player who is put in that position solely because of his size. DSJ is best suited at the 2, he will still get more than enough shots which will most likely be easier than the shots he is taking now. Carlisle should at least experiment with Doncic at the point for a couple of games and DSJ at SG to see how the offense looks. I think DSJs ceiling at SG 2 is much higher than at PG so they should put him there right away. At the very least they DSJ and Doncic should split the time at the position more equally...

I'm all for playing Luka at the 1 offensively and Dennis at the 2, my thing is the calls for trading DSj so quickly is nonsense. Again, he's far from untouchable, but no way would I trade him for a Mikal bridges or Frank Ntkinna as been suggested here. I'd trade him for a guy like Beal (especially if Wes was included to match salary) or jaylen brown however.

I agree, trading DSJ this early, before you even experiment with the position he plays and try to find the best way how Luka and DSJ can play togehter is just an overreaction. He is obviously not a PG and I dont understand why they are pushing him to play the positon when they have much better solutions available. This position requres a talent for passing the ball and make quick decisions and DSJ clearly doesnt have enough of it. You cant teach this stuff, players can only get to a certain point as passers if they dont have the talent and guys like DSJ can never become elite at the position. Just make him a scorer, run sets for him at the SG and make him play defense. Forcing him to make plays is not the way to go, he will just frustrate himself and his teammates. He cant even make a simple pass to the post for gods sake...

[daoneandonly]

You cant force a player to be something he is not and DSJ is not an NBA level PG. He just doesnt understands the game well enough to be a good PG on the NBA level. A PG has to be the player who is the best suited for the role and not a player who is put in that position solely because of his size. DSJ is best suited at the 2, he will still get more than enough shots which will most likely be easier than the shots he is taking now. Carlisle should at least experiment with Doncic at the point for a couple of games and DSJ at SG to see how the offense looks. I think DSJs ceiling at SG 2 is much higher than at PG so they should put him there right away. At the very least they DSJ and Doncic should split the time at the position more equally...

I'm all for playing Luka at the 1 offensively and Dennis at the 2, my thing is the calls for trading DSj so quickly is nonsense. Again, he's far from untouchable, but no way would I trade him for a Mikal bridges or Frank Ntkinna as been suggested here. I'd trade him for a guy like Beal (especially if Wes was included to match salary) or jaylen brown however.

I agree, trading DSJ this early, before you even experiment with the position he plays and try to find the best way how Luka and DSJ can play togehter is just an overreaction. He is obviously not a PG and I dont understand why they are pushing him to play the positon when they have much better solutions available. This position requres a talent for passing the ball and make quick decisions and DSJ clearly doesnt have enough of it. You cant teach this stuff, players can only get to a certain point as passers if they dont have the talent and guys like DSJ can never become elite at the position. Just make him a scorer, run sets for him at the SG and make him play defense. Forcing him to make plays is not the way to go, he will just frustrate himself and his teammates. He cant even make a simple pass to the post for gods sake...

You know what's funny, and irritating at once? We had a potentially good PG fit with Luka, Yogi Ferrell. But for some reason, this team decided to blow a high 2nd rounder on Brunson instead of getting someone like Bates-Diop, Trier, or Robinson. We'd then have a cheap PG who hustles and knows his role (really tries on D too), along with another much needed wing or a promising big.

[Nikson]

You are both right!
I also think Brunson for 1, Denis for 2 and Luka for 1 and 2.
Combos are:
Luka, Denis
Brunson, Luka
Brunson, Denis, Luka
They are just inexperienced and young.

[Jstock12]

If Dragic was 7-8 years younger, I'd be all for that. But as of now, it doesn't make much sense. This team is still 2-3 (maybe more) years from contending, better not to waste any assets on 32 year olds. And it's not like Dragic was a world beater when he was DSJ's age. Dennis still has potential.

[J_T]

I found this video interesting, especially the Wes part

Watch on YouTube

I was not aware of some of those stats. Apparently Wes passes by far lowest % out of his drives in the entire league. And even if you add post up % to it, among guards or wings in the league the only players with lower % are Giannis and Leonard, both obviously at the top of the food chain, you want those guys to ... do stuff.

So yeah, definitely the numbers also show, that Wes' style of play is identical to 3-5 best players in the league. It's just that execution is not there.