Trade Discussion 22/23

[41Dirk41]

Here's the thing that Mavs are facing. 3&D guys are the 2ndd highest paid in the league next to superstars, the data shows this. So if you want guys like DFS, cough up 2 FRPs. If you want a guy like Mikal Bridges, cough up 4 FRPs. The next best thing you can do is try to trade for Simmons and have him play defense instead of playmaking (which he can do). If you are not in the market for sending out FRPs, then you are not getting 3&D guys. Then we're cycling back to just fantasy trades because MAVS DONT HAVE ASSETS to get defenders next year and beyond. If Simmons can be had for THJ, I'd take a chance on him because the team currently constructed needs more defense than shooting, you have to sacrifice somewhere, cant have a team with 15 two way players. If you look at the market, summer of 2023, 2024, what 3&D guy can be had for THJ and Bertans? If you can give those for OG, DFS, MIkal Bridges, I'm all in. But let's see the list and how we can get them here with the assets Mavs have and if any team wants THJ and Bertans in exchange.

So there's no middle ground here. You want 3&D guys, cough up FRPs, or Mavs are getting Justin Holiday types via buy outs. That's just how the market is. Teams are throwing FRPs for guys you want on your team. Other teams wont lower their price just because it's your fantasy to surround Luka and Kyrie with defenders.

This is true for teams with already 2/3 superstars on the roster, the 3&D with superstars are useless.
And we know it very well

Look at Boston/GSW/Bucks/PHO ecc ecc this is the way for building a championship roster.

And i would like to see which team offered 2FRPs for DFS... Looks like a boutade by Nets FO and his sport agent.
Because then the Nets were foolish if they didn't trade him.

[arkuo]

Here's the thing that Mavs are facing. 3&D guys are the 2ndd highest paid in the league next to superstars, the data shows this. So if you want guys like DFS, cough up 2 FRPs. If you want a guy like Mikal Bridges, cough up 4 FRPs. The next best thing you can do is try to trade for Simmons and have him play defense instead of playmaking (which he can do). If you are not in the market for sending out FRPs, then you are not getting 3&D guys. Then we're cycling back to just fantasy trades because MAVS DONT HAVE ASSETS to get defenders next year and beyond. If Simmons can be had for THJ, I'd take a chance on him because the team currently constructed needs more defense than shooting, you have to sacrifice somewhere, cant have a team with 15 two way players. If you look at the market, summer of 2023, 2024, what 3&D guy can be had for THJ and Bertans? If you can give those for OG, DFS, MIkal Bridges, I'm all in. But let's see the list and how we can get them here with the assets Mavs have and if any team wants THJ and Bertans in exchange.

So there's no middle ground here. You want 3&D guys, cough up FRPs, or Mavs are getting Justin Holiday types via buy outs. That's just how the market is. Teams are throwing FRPs for guys you want on your team. Other teams wont lower their price just because it's your fantasy to surround Luka and Kyrie with defenders.

This is true for teams with already 2/3 superstars on the roster, the 3&D with superstars are useless.
And we know it very well

Look at Boston/GSW/Bucks/PHO ecc ecc this is the way for building a championship roster.

And i would like to see which team offered 2FRPs for DFS... Looks like a boutade by Nets FO and his sport agent.
Because then the Nets were foolish if they didn't trade him.

I think it's plausible. Thybulle was traded for 1 FRP. DFS is Thybulle with a 3 point shot. A desperate franchise like the Knicks would give 2 for DFS or 3 for Anunoby.

[arkuo]

Does Cam Johnson play defense? If BKN doesn't want him, he's RFA this summer. Any chance he can be had for THJ?

[Bob8]

Here's the thing that Mavs are facing. 3&D guys are the 2ndd highest paid in the league next to superstars, the data shows this. So if you want guys like DFS, cough up 2 FRPs. If you want a guy like Mikal Bridges, cough up 4 FRPs. The next best thing you can do is try to trade for Simmons and have him play defense instead of playmaking (which he can do). If you are not in the market for sending out FRPs, then you are not getting 3&D guys. Then we're cycling back to just fantasy trades because MAVS DONT HAVE ASSETS to get defenders next year and beyond. If Simmons can be had for THJ, I'd take a chance on him because the team currently constructed needs more defense than shooting, you have to sacrifice somewhere, cant have a team with 15 two way players. If you look at the market, summer of 2023, 2024, what 3&D guy can be had for THJ and Bertans? If you can give those for OG, DFS, MIkal Bridges, I'm all in. But let's see the list and how we can get them here with the assets Mavs have and if any team wants THJ and Bertans in exchange.

So there's no middle ground here. You want 3&D guys, cough up FRPs, or Mavs are getting Justin Holiday types via buy outs. That's just how the market is. Teams are throwing FRPs for guys you want on your team. Other teams wont lower their price just because it's your fantasy to surround Luka and Kyrie with defenders.

This is true for teams with already 2/3 superstars on the roster, the 3&D with superstars are useless.
And we know it very well

Look at Boston/GSW/Bucks/PHO ecc ecc this is the way for building a championship roster.

And i would like to see which team offered 2FRPs for DFS... Looks like a boutade by Nets FO and his sport agent.
Because then the Nets were foolish if they didn't trade him.

I think it's plausible. Thybulle was traded for 1 FRP. DFS is Thybulle with a 3 point shot. A desperate franchise like the Knicks would give 2 for DFS or 3 for Anunoby.

Difference in scoring between Dorrian and Thybulle are just in minutes played and Mavs system that generated wide open shots for DFS.

[Apz]

If Nets are game for Simmons for THJ/Bertans, then sure, I'm all for it, I think they'll demand at least expiring deals.

Yeah. Nico has a great relationship with Marks and Tsai. Given that they chose to give Kyrie to Nico rather than send him to some flashy city. I hope Nico can convince them for THJ and Bertans too. if that's what it'll take to get Simmons, whose value is basically zero right now, Mavs need to be opportunistic while the iron is hot.

Most people forget that Simmons is 6'10. When he stood beside AD, they're the same size. Powell is 6'10. I'd gamble on SImmons playing center of PF here. No need for his playmaking and non shooting. Kyrie and Luka will attempt 30 each anyway. There wont be a lot of shot attempts to get around, but if he can play serious defense instead, then the Mavs i think can live with that, especially if you do not have 4 FRPs to send out for a quality defender. That's just the market dictating price.

Opportunistic like trading for bertans? For kp?

Thing is, bertans is more playable in the po then simmons. You really cant play a player that got no offense in the po

[Bob8]

If Nets are game for Simmons for THJ/Bertans, then sure, I'm all for it, I think they'll demand at least expiring deals.

Yeah. Nico has a great relationship with Marks and Tsai. Given that they chose to give Kyrie to Nico rather than send him to some flashy city. I hope Nico can convince them for THJ and Bertans too. if that's what it'll take to get Simmons, whose value is basically zero right now, Mavs need to be opportunistic while the iron is hot.

Most people forget that Simmons is 6'10. When he stood beside AD, they're the same size. Powell is 6'10. I'd gamble on SImmons playing center of PF here. No need for his playmaking and non shooting. Kyrie and Luka will attempt 30 each anyway. There wont be a lot of shot attempts to get around, but if he can play serious defense instead, then the Mavs i think can live with that, especially if you do not have 4 FRPs to send out for a quality defender. That's just the market dictating price.

Opportunistic like trading for bertans? For kp?

Thing is, bertans is more playable in the po then simmons. You really cant play a player that got no offense in the po

Mavs desperately need rim protector, someone who would at least make things more difficult in the paint for the opponents and could rebound. Not Simmons of course.

[arkuo]

Collin Cowherd just went on air. And said he's hearing something from a long time NBA executive. Two things : Dallas Mavericks and Anthony Davis in the summer.

If things dont work out with Kyrie here, and AD is still pouting in LA, Lebron will boot him out to S&T Kyrie. is this a downgrade? A lateral move? Thoughts on this?

My take is this has the same feels as getting Porzingis. Luka will go back to asking everyone to stand outside the 3 point line again and turn AD into a spot up shooter. Because there is no way in hell that AD will get his low post plays over Luka's pick and rolls then kick out pass. So to be honest, I'd probably prefer Irving just because Luka and Kyrie are 1A and 1B. While Luka and AD are clearly 1 and 2 in terms of talent.

[41Dirk41]

Here's the thing that Mavs are facing. 3&D guys are the 2ndd highest paid in the league next to superstars, the data shows this. So if you want guys like DFS, cough up 2 FRPs. If you want a guy like Mikal Bridges, cough up 4 FRPs. The next best thing you can do is try to trade for Simmons and have him play defense instead of playmaking (which he can do). If you are not in the market for sending out FRPs, then you are not getting 3&D guys. Then we're cycling back to just fantasy trades because MAVS DONT HAVE ASSETS to get defenders next year and beyond. If Simmons can be had for THJ, I'd take a chance on him because the team currently constructed needs more defense than shooting, you have to sacrifice somewhere, cant have a team with 15 two way players. If you look at the market, summer of 2023, 2024, what 3&D guy can be had for THJ and Bertans? If you can give those for OG, DFS, MIkal Bridges, I'm all in. But let's see the list and how we can get them here with the assets Mavs have and if any team wants THJ and Bertans in exchange.

So there's no middle ground here. You want 3&D guys, cough up FRPs, or Mavs are getting Justin Holiday types via buy outs. That's just how the market is. Teams are throwing FRPs for guys you want on your team. Other teams wont lower their price just because it's your fantasy to surround Luka and Kyrie with defenders.

This is true for teams with already 2/3 superstars on the roster, the 3&D with superstars are useless.
And we know it very well

Look at Boston/GSW/Bucks/PHO ecc ecc this is the way for building a championship roster.

And i would like to see which team offered 2FRPs for DFS... Looks like a boutade by Nets FO and his sport agent.
Because then the Nets were foolish if they didn't trade him.

I think it's plausible. Thybulle was traded for 1 FRP. DFS is Thybulle with a 3 point shot. A desperate franchise like the Knicks would give 2 for DFS or 3 for Anunoby.

2SRPs

[arkuo]

This is true for teams with already 2/3 superstars on the roster, the 3&D with superstars are useless.
And we know it very well

Look at Boston/GSW/Bucks/PHO ecc ecc this is the way for building a championship roster.

And i would like to see which team offered 2FRPs for DFS... Looks like a boutade by Nets FO and his sport agent.
Because then the Nets were foolish if they didn't trade him.

I think it's plausible. Thybulle was traded for 1 FRP. DFS is Thybulle with a 3 point shot. A desperate franchise like the Knicks would give 2 for DFS or 3 for Anunoby.

2SRPs

Man... if the Raptors are giving OG for SRPs, Cuban better cough up all his SRPs until 2037. I'm in!

[arkuo]

It seems the Mavs have backed themselves to a corner here.

Priority 1 - re-sign Irving.
Priority 2 - trade for a defensive wing and big

Moveable pieces - THJ, Bertans, Powell (S&T), Wood (S&T), Kleber, Mcgee

Assets (Trade if you really have to) - Josh Green, Jaden Hardy, 2027 FRP

[41Dirk41]

I think it's plausible. Thybulle was traded for 1 FRP. DFS is Thybulle with a 3 point shot. A desperate franchise like the Knicks would give 2 for DFS or 3 for Anunoby.

2SRPs

Man... if the Raptors are giving OG for SRPs, Cuban better cough up all his SRPs until 2037. I'm in!

No no

I said Thybulle was traded for 2SRPs not 1FRP like you wrote....

[Archx]

Collin Cowherd just went on air. And said he's hearing something from a long time NBA executive. Two things : Dallas Mavericks and Anthony Davis in the summer.

If things dont work out with Kyrie here, and AD is still pouting in LA, Lebron will boot him out to S&T Kyrie. is this a downgrade? A lateral move? Thoughts on this?

My take is this has the same feels as getting Porzingis. Luka will go back to asking everyone to stand outside the 3 point line again and turn AD into a spot up shooter. Because there is no way in hell that AD will get his low post plays over Luka's pick and rolls then kick out pass. So to be honest, I'd probably prefer Irving just because Luka and Kyrie are 1A and 1B. While Luka and AD are clearly 1 and 2 in terms of talent.

Collin Cowherd is a total idiot, he has zero credibility. Probably worse than Skip.

[Mr B]

I still think 76ers Ben Simmons would fit great to Mavs. He was the best Luka defender in the league. He did not seem like that player for 2+ years now...

I think the problem is not just mental. Its more about the back injury but not get talked much. With serious back injury you would not go for that many blocks, you dont go jump for dunking over people, taking charges etc. It kinda look similar to some injury returns of MPJ of Denver and Porzingis. Both guys can actually defend and block shots if they feel good about their knee, leg, back whatever. Both KP-MPJ also dunks, putbacks emphatically when they feel good. After injury, sometimes for months, seasons they stop doing those stuff. And they kept getting injured for so many times so we didn't see them at full capacity for so long. At least those two can shoot 3pt shot, and finish layups without afraiding to get fouled and FT shots. Ben has FT fear which further capitulates his game.

It's funny... People against Irving trade now proposed a trade for Simmons

I can't fully understand Ben. Does he just need a change of scenery like Kyrie to get energized again or needs to change his head?

Dude was such a best and talent not long ago and now he's barely a bench player on a max contract.

He seems totally checked out. He even recently said that he will never be the player he was. I think he’s just playing for the money at this point and has zero love for the game.

[Jg41]

It seems the Mavs have backed themselves to a corner here.

Priority 1 - re-sign Irving.
Priority 2 - trade for a defensive wing and big

Moveable pieces - THJ, Bertans, Powell (S&T), Wood (S&T), Kleber, Mcgee

Assets (Trade if you really have to) - Josh Green, Jaden Hardy, 2027 FRP

Two trades sometime between the draft and the moratorium:

1) D. Bertans / '25 2nd / 6.3M Cash (Via 22-23 Considerations) ===> SAN ===> D. McDermott (Expiring @13.75M)

2) C. Wood (S&T 3yrs 48M) / T. Hardaway Jr. / '25 Unprotected 1st / '27 Unprotected 1st / '30 Unprotected 2nd / (4) 1st Round Swaps in '24,'26,'28,'30 / 6.8M Cash (Via 23-24 Considerations) ===> BKN ===> N. Claxton / D. Finney-Smith / P. Mills

Free Agency:

1) Resign K. Irving (5yrs 220M ... Include 5th year PO and Full No-Trade Clause)
2) Extend J. Green (4yrs 80M)
3) Extend N. Claxton (4 yrs 100M)
4) Resign T. Pinson & D. Powell to Vet Minimum

2023-2024 Payroll:

Luka - 40,064,220
Kyrie - 38,000,000
Dodo - 13,930,820
Doug - 13,750,000
Kleber - 11,000,000
Bullock - 10,489,600
Claxton - 8,750,000
Patty - 6,802,950
McGee - 5,734,280
Green - 4,765,339
Powell - 1,989,698
Pinson - 1,989,698
Hardy - 1,719,864

160,976,167

Rotation:

PG: K. Irving (36) / P. Mills
SG: J. Green (32) / J. Hardy (24) / T. Pinson
SF: L. Doncic (36) / R. Bullock (24) / D. McDermott
PF: D. Finney-Smith (32) / M. Kleber (24)
C: N. Claxton (32) / D. Powell / J. McGee

Dallas swaps Bertans for Doug, signs Kyrie at 38M (w/max 3M raises each year), and elects to roster only 13 players -- all to avoid the luxury tax this year (Projected at 162+M). This will reset the team's repeater clock while also preserving the flexibility to use the full TPMLE in the event a worthy player becomes available midseason-though this would be ill-advised for virtually anyone who becomes available. Regardless, Dallas would be hard-capped at roughly 168M if they elect to move C. Wood via S&T. Because of these parameters, Dallas relies on its two-way players and 10-day contracts to navigate midseason injuries.

Rationale:
Dallas jettisons literally every legally tradable non-player asset it has in order to retain Josh and Jaden in the deal while forming a 24 and under core of Luka, Nic, and the aforementioned. Timing will be crucial. If Dallas can execute this while Kyrie mulls his decision, the addition of Claxton (on a personal and basketball level) might incline him to stay. It's also a brass balls demonstration by Mark and Nico to Kyrie (and Luka as well): 400M check and every conceivable draft asset. Still, there's not as much downside as some might claim. Claxton has developed into a defensive anchor, and, if not untouchable, he represents the best young defensive center prospect in the league. He fits the timeline and skillset perfectly and is someone you definitely empty the clip for. Dorian is the perfect 3&D PF (contractually and culturally) to take on wings and primary ballhandlers with a bit more size than Josh can handle. And Patty gives us 5 playmakers we're comfortable with. Nevertheless, I hope Dallas at least kicks the tires with the Nets, so many good pieces to be had there.

[Apz]

It seems the Mavs have backed themselves to a corner here.

Priority 1 - re-sign Irving.
Priority 2 - trade for a defensive wing and big

Moveable pieces - THJ, Bertans, Powell (S&T), Wood (S&T), Kleber, Mcgee

Assets (Trade if you really have to) - Josh Green, Jaden Hardy, 2027 FRP

Two trades sometime between the draft and the moratorium:

1) D. Bertans / '25 2nd / 6.3M Cash (Via 22-23 Considerations) ===> SAN ===> D. McDermott (Expiring @13.75M)

2) C. Wood (S&T 3yrs 48M) / T. Hardaway Jr. / '25 Unprotected 1st / '27 Unprotected 1st / '30 Unprotected 2nd / (4) 1st Round Swaps in '24,'26,'28,'30 / 6.8M Cash (Via 23-24 Considerations) ===> BKN ===> N. Claxton / D. Finney-Smith / P. Mills

Free Agency:

1) Resign K. Irving (5yrs 220M ... Include 5th year PO and Full No-Trade Clause)
2) Extend J. Green (4yrs 80M)
3) Extend N. Claxton (4 yrs 100M)
4) Resign T. Pinson & D. Powell to Vet Minimum

2023-2024 Payroll:

Luka - 40,064,220
Kyrie - 38,000,000
Dodo - 13,930,820
Doug - 13,750,000
Kleber - 11,000,000
Bullock - 10,489,600
Claxton - 8,750,000
Patty - 6,802,950
McGee - 5,734,280
Green - 4,765,339
Powell - 1,989,698
Pinson - 1,989,698
Hardy - 1,719,864

160,976,167

Rotation:

PG: K. Irving (36) / P. Mills
SG: J. Green (32) / J. Hardy (24) / T. Pinson
SF: L. Doncic (36) / R. Bullock (24) / D. McDermott
PF: D. Finney-Smith (32) / M. Kleber (24)
C: N. Claxton (32) / D. Powell / J. McGee

Dallas swaps Bertans for Doug, signs Kyrie at 38M (w/max 3M raises each year), and elects to roster only 13 players -- all to avoid the luxury tax this year (Projected at 162+M). This will reset the team's repeater clock while also preserving the flexibility to use the full TPMLE in the event a worthy player becomes available midseason-though this would be ill-advised for virtually anyone who becomes available. Regardless, Dallas would be hard-capped at roughly 168M if they elect to move C. Wood via S&T. Because of these parameters, Dallas relies on its two-way players and 10-day contracts to navigate midseason injuries.

Rationale:
Dallas jettisons literally every legally tradable non-player asset it has in order to retain Josh and Jaden in the deal while forming a 24 and under core of Luka, Nic, and the aforementioned. Timing will be crucial. If Dallas can execute this while Kyrie mulls his decision, the addition of Claxton (on a personal and basketball level) might incline him to stay. It's also a brass balls demonstration by Mark and Nico to Kyrie (and Luka as well): 400M check and every conceivable draft asset. Still, there's not as much downside as some might claim. Claxton has developed into a defensive anchor, and, if not untouchable, he represents the best young defensive center prospect in the league. He fits the timeline and skillset perfectly and is someone you definitely empty the clip for. Dorian is the perfect 3&D PF (contractually and culturally) to take on wings and primary ballhandlers with a bit more size than Josh can handle. And Patty gives us 5 playmakers we're comfortable with. Nevertheless, I hope Dallas at least kicks the tires with the Nets, so many good pieces to be had there.

Insane. Would have to change mills for bridges to even start to consider giving up all assets

[BliscoSantos]

If the Mavs resign Kyrie is there any way they can get another all star to team up with Luka an Kyrie...we know they are interested in Ayton,bit would the Suns let him go? Or maybe Siakam...there's even rumblings about AD..who Else could fit with Luka and Kyrie

[arkuo]

If the Mavs resign Kyrie is there any way they can get another all star to team up with Luka an Kyrie...we know they are interested in Ayton,bit would the Suns let him go? Or maybe Siakam...there's even rumblings about AD..who Else could fit with Luka and Kyrie

Yes. Earliest is in 2025.

[arkuo]

Dallas might just have to wait for 2024 for that defensive big in Nic Claxton. But for that to happen, they must re-sign Kyrie first then Kyrie gets to convince Claxton to come over.

[ozwizard8]

Ben got 0 upside. He is menthally not suitable to be a professional athlete.

And u cant double snt to the guy above

I still think 76ers Ben Simmons would fit great to Mavs. He was the best Luka defender in the league. He did not seem like that player for 2+ years now...

I think the problem is not just mental. Its more about the back injury but not get talked much. With serious back injury you would not go for that many blocks, you dont go jump for dunking over people, taking charges etc. It kinda look similar to some injury returns of MPJ of Denver and Porzingis. Both guys can actually defend and block shots if they feel good about their knee, leg, back whatever. Both KP-MPJ also dunks, putbacks emphatically when they feel good. After injury, sometimes for months, seasons they stop doing those stuff. And they kept getting injured for so many times so we didn't see them at full capacity for so long. At least those two can shoot 3pt shot, and finish layups without afraiding to get fouled and FT shots. Ben has FT fear which further capitulates his game.

It's funny... People against Irving trade now proposed a trade for Simmons

I am not saying today's Simmons. I am talking about Ben Simmons who made the All NBA defensive team. Simmons selected to all defensive team unanimously just 2-3 years ago.

He is no longer that player. TRY to read all the comment not to take a word out of it.

[ozwizard8]

Ben got 0 upside. He is menthally not suitable to be a professional athlete.

And u cant double snt to the guy above

I still think 76ers Ben Simmons would fit great to Mavs. He was the best Luka defender in the league. He did not seem like that player for 2+ years now...

I think the problem is not just mental. Its more about the back injury but not get talked much. With serious back injury you would not go for that many blocks, you dont go jump for dunking over people, taking charges etc. It kinda look similar to some injury returns of MPJ of Denver and Porzingis. Both guys can actually defend and block shots if they feel good about their knee, leg, back whatever. Both KP-MPJ also dunks, putbacks emphatically when they feel good. After injury, sometimes for months, seasons they stop doing those stuff. And they kept getting injured for so many times so we didn't see them at full capacity for so long. At least those two can shoot 3pt shot, and finish layups without afraiding to get fouled and FT shots. Ben has FT fear which further capitulates his game.

Not really. Luka got by him at will. Issue were never simmons, it was embiid behind that did a good job vs luka in those games

I strongly suggest you to watch those games again. With prime defensive Simmons, 76ers did not need to double Luka as much as other teams. 2019-2021 years. Luka's stats against 76ers is pretty bad with Embiid missing some games but Simmons is playing in all.

Mavs used 3pt shooter players on Embiid, or switching Embiid on a 3pt shooter in those games to take him out like we did to Gobert. The problem was Simmons being able to keep up with Luka. Tall, wingspan, athletic, and strong enough for post plays. That being said Luka is still Luka. Of course Luka scores, but Simmons was able to keep up with him and lower his efficiency significantly. I mean even Kawhi-PG13 could not stop Luka.

Simmons and Gobert were unanimous selection to all defensive team at the time. I think Simmons' back problems add up to mental stuff.