Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[Dirk]

My issue was that this person said that I should stop posting just because that person doesnt agree with me. If anyone is getting emotional its that person for saying that. I know my opinion is controversial but I have never said anything personal about Luka and only talk about his game. The problem is that they cant accept that and want to chase away anyone that they disagree with. Its a hysterical reaction and thats why you have a mess on your hands now, its not because of me. I will leave this forum because its unreadable, objective posters only post from time to time because of the reasons I mentioned above. I will only read it for comic relief.

There's no mess. It's not that serious. Everyone needs to relax when we see opinions or even users "we may not like very much". What needs to be is an understanding so that despite the different opinions, people don't resort to remarks that only ignite stupid fights.

When you bring up "are you a girl", "go watch a romantic movie"... "i will only read it for comic relief"... it will make anyone question your intentions and your objective opinions.

You know that. So don't do it.

I have ZERO problem with your opinions on Doncic. Absolutely none. I disagree with your approach --- feels like you're obsessing too much about numbers (for a rookie), but that's fine. I actually think it's good that some do question Doncic and do bring up numbers that support your opinions. It sparks discussion.

I do think that there exists some overhype around Doncic --- like the Mavs are having a great season not because of him 'solely' or with him as being this 'great saviour'. And I dislike when I see it very cheaply thrown around at times that he is the reason for the Mavs winning. That is not really the case - there are many guys playing well, especially the bench. I do "accept" the overhype though. I can see where it comes from. I would prefer it if it didn't exist. But it's alright.

I tend to look at individual plays more and seeing traits that can be worked on and you can build on --- he has shown a lot of those to me. I didn't have unbelievable expectations for him. I didn't come into the year thinking "this is the next franchise player". I just take it step by step... the first was not being a bust or having a really awful rookie year. That hasn't been the case. So that's a good start. To be honest, his numbers could be worse and I'd still be quite happy with his season. I would only panic if his recent shooting slump lasted until the end of the year.

He just had a poor shooting night yesterday, but he was still a lot of fun to watch with the way he manipulated the defenders and threw passes up for Jordan (blew like 3 dunks) or paced himself to get open corner 3s. If the trend of bad shooting lasts... that will be brought up, but this is clearly a guy that can help the team in many ways, so the shooting percentages aren't as alarming.

I am all for freedom and I like reading different opinions. So as I said --- be free to hang around and post your opinions. However, you need to do it being mindful that you are on a Mavs forum --- and just because others may be Mavericks fans or Doncic fans... it doesn't mean they can't make good points - so that shot about "comic relief" is just not cool. Hell, it's just not Mavs fans that hype him. The overwhelming majority of NBA fans are hyping him up --- it's normal... the guy makes flashy plays every single game and just had that signature finish to the game against the Rockets.

Okay, this is my last 'ridiculous patronizing post'. No point in anyone telling others to stop posting or announcing that they will stop posting or whatever. This is an open forum. Everyone can and should participate. No problem with some fighting, as long as there are limits to it.

I quoted you, but I don't want to come off as if I am singling you out, everyone has the responsibility to keep the place clean enough in order to continue to discuss the player. Rookie. 82 game season. There will be many ups and downs. So lots of chances to call each other out. Let's all try to be civil enough and get to the end of the season in one piece.

[realEAST]

Just my two cents pay paled from the other conference team, and accros the ocean - Luka may very well hit a shooting slump soon, that wouldn't be surprising given his sub optimal conditioning at the moment along him being somewhat banged up already (back, knee, ankle, there are few smaller, nagging issues apparently he play through - as he did last year in Real too, until he had two week break to recuperate), and teams have started to gameplan for him specifically. Also, there is a precedent to it already - again, it halpened around this time last year in Real too.

BUT, what came after that slump, and that two week break he had to address his minor injuries, is that he again took reigns and took Real to Euroleague title - true, he was awful for first two games agains Pao, but after that he rightfully tool MVP honors.

Point is, when faced with challenge, he learns and adapts. And what's more, he does it quickly and on the fly. So it wouldn't surprise me if he comes back post All Star break and is crucial in Mavs securing a Playoff spot.

As for his scoring and potential there - I think he excedeed even the most optimistic fan's expectations (he did mine, and I am pretty high on that list), and showed great promise and versatility there, and can grow a lot in that department as he became primary offensive weapon just last season and has been improving rapidly.

As for his physicall prospects, it is obvious he is still not close to his perfect shape and I think he will improve drastically through next two seasons. But still, even in this shape, he is rarely overmatched and has already found the way to produce against many top wing or forward defenders (Aminu, Harkless, Porter jr., J. Grant... from the top off the head)

And remember, he is only starting to lear and adapt.

[XTraderXL]

Guys,

if you cannot accept Trader's opinions, then you shouldn't also be bringing him up like you did after that Houston game.

He is entitled to his opinion. And I think you should welcome different opinions and someone that has a different perspective.

What you can't do is call him out after the good games and at the same time then get frustrated when he shows up and states his opinions.

At the end of the day... whatever he thinks. Whatever we think... doesn't matter. So there's no point taking anything that anyone says seriously enough to get engaged in stupid fights.



Xtrader,

this type of post is clearly against the rules and a warning everywhere.

I will let it go.

You are WELCOME to visit and post on the Mavs forum. But if you get too emotional, just close the tab and move on. No point posting this sort of stuff "...are you a girl?"; "watch a romantic movie".

You are on a very (small) Mavs forum. It is natural that people will be attached to their players. In this specific case you have a prodigy for a small nation. So you also have several users who are naturally very proud and hopeful about their player. Hell, I am sure many Europeans have also adopted Doncic. This is all normal.

And this is a fact: the excitement about Doncic is everywhere on Mavs nation. And across the NBA really. It is there because he has shown more than enough to make people believe that he can be a star in this league. It does not mean that you are wrong on what you say. It just means that you need to know your your environment.

If you're posting on a Mavs forum, you cannot expect not to receive some strong opinions. If you don't adapt to it, then it makes me question your intentions. So please, do not resort to these types of remarks to reply back to another user. Stick to making your rational points and being analytical. Avoid getting into these types of fights otherwise it will just be a mess.

Everyone: please make it work where you can have different opinions living on this topic. I don't have a problem with some "fighting", but you cannot let it get too personal.

At the end of the day, nothing of what anyone writes or thinks matters. Consider that when someone else writes something that you strongly disagree with. Often times it's just best to ignore.

My issue was that this person said that I should stop posting just because that person doesnt agree with me. If anyone is getting emotional its that person for saying that. I know my opinion is controversial but I have never said anything personal about Luka and only talk about his game. The problem is that they cant accept that and want to chase away anyone that they disagree with. Its a hysterical reaction and thats why you have a mess on your hands now, its not because of me. I will leave this forum because its unreadable, objective posters only post from time to time because of the reasons I mentioned above. I will only read it for comic relief.

You're the one who took it too far by asking someone if he's a girl and that he should go watch a romantic movie, because you couldn't come up with any better arguments to support your opinion. And this passive aggressive 'goodbye note' is even cringier. If you really think this forum is unreadable, then I would suggest looking in the mirror, because you might be one of the reasons why.

One last reply to you since you obviously dont know what I was replying to. The guy got all emotional and told me to get off the thread because he doesnt agree with my opinion. Thats not how someone should react when he doesnt agree with something. Thats how emotional women react so my question was on point. There was no need for me to prove any of my other points, I posted the numbers which are factual and you and your buddies disregard them because they dont fit your theory. Also we are yet to see whos projections are correct, right now we dont know who was correct so there is no way you can say who is right or wrong about Lukas future.

This thread is unreadable because everyone agrees and you chase off anyone who does not. Maybe thats your thing but its certainly not mine. You can keep doing that all you want and ignore all the red flags. We used to have good discussions about Luka before he got to Dallas but now its just his fanboys giving each other high fives even when he stinks it up.

[Rn5ho]

See this is exactly what triggered me.. you just can't let go. I don't mind you having a different opinion and in fact I agree with a lot of what you say - especially about conditioning, but it's really annoying that you keep repeating your own narrative into oblivion - we get it, we understand your opinion and you do have some valid points, but you seem to have a mission to convert everyone to think the same as you - that's how long you will keep repeating it.

There's nothing Luka can do over night to change his conditioning, I'm 100% sure Mavs staff is well aware of how his situation is and they have a plan put in place. Luka is by all metrics and number exceeding even the wildest expectations this season - I personally had him at 14/4/4~ at most, so obviously I'm very happy to see him do better than that. But he's still a rookie - actually more importantly, he's still a teenager and as such no matter what, he will have ups and downs.. other than top of the top players, pretty much everyone has these over the course of the season.

And calling someone a girl over being emotional? And then even defending that? Seriously?

[thr3ep01nte4]

I don't know man. Prime Hedo was really really good. Great playmaker and a deadly shooter. Arguably the 2nd best player on a Finals team. Pity his "prime" only lasted for a couple of seasons. Luka should definitely surpass him, but I'm just not sure if he's there yet. But he's already much better than a rookie Harden or a rookie Durant or a rookie Westbrook

Hedo was good, but he was only good for a couple of years. That's it. Same with Gallo. Luka's probably gonna do what prime Hedo did for the next 10-15 years. That consistency makes him much much better. The breakdown was half-decent before he brought in all the limited upside ****.

[2011Champs]

Rookie year Doncic is already equal to better statistically than prime Hedo.That being said, what is Doncic’s ceiling statistically? Will he become a top scorer in the league at 28ppg or will he remain the similar PPG/AST/REB stats but just more efficient and refined?

[thr3ep01nte4]

Rookie year Doncic is already equal to better statistically than prime Hedo.That being said, what is Doncic’s ceiling statistically? Will he become a top scorer in the league at 28ppg or will he remain the similar PPG/AST/REB stats but just more efficient and refined?

Put some things in perspective:

Larry Bird was 23+10+6 for almost 13 years. He's a all-time top 10 guy.
From age 22 to 36, Dirk was averaging 23+8, with his ~10 peak years averaging 25+9. Dirk's top 10-20 all-time.
Paul Pierce averaged 20+6+4 from age 22 to 35, peak ~7 years averaging 23+6+5. Pierce is probably top 40-60 all-time.
Joe Johnson had ~5 20+5+5 seasons. He has an over 50% chance of making the HOF according to BKREF.
Hedo did 20+5+5 once when he was 28.
Gallo was 19+5 for 3 years.

You're an all-time guy if you do 20+6+5 for over 10 years.

Luka's not gonna be Lebron, but he starts as prime Hedo. If he can keep it up for 10+ years, he's at least gonna be a HOFer and ranks top 50 all-time.

[Jstock12]

Rookie year Doncic is already equal to better statistically than prime Hedo.That being said, what is Doncic’s ceiling statistically? Will he become a top scorer in the league at 28ppg or will he remain the similar PPG/AST/REB stats but just more efficient and refined?

Put some things in perspective:

Larry Bird was 23+10+6 for almost 13 years. He's a all-time top 10 guy.
From age 22 to 36, Dirk was averaging 23+8, with his ~10 peak years averaging 25+9. Dirk's top 10-20 all-time.
Paul Pierce averaged 20+6+4 from age 22 to 35, peak ~7 years averaging 23+6+5. Pierce is probably top 40-60 all-time.
Joe Johnson had ~5 20+5+5 seasons. He has an over 50% chance of making the HOF according to BKREF.
Hedo did 20+5+5 once when he was 28.
Gallo was 19+5 for 3 years.

You're an all-time guy if you do 20+6+5 for over 10 years.

Luka's not gonna be Lebron, but he starts as prime Hedo. If he can keep it up for 10+ years, he's at least gonna be a HOFer and ranks top 50 all-time.

Lillard is doing it for the 7th season now. No way am I putting him in the HOF yet. Needs to actually win something...

[Dirk]

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[thr3ep01nte4]

Rookie year Doncic is already equal to better statistically than prime Hedo.That being said, what is Doncic’s ceiling statistically? Will he become a top scorer in the league at 28ppg or will he remain the similar PPG/AST/REB stats but just more efficient and refined?

Put some things in perspective:

Larry Bird was 23+10+6 for almost 13 years. He's a all-time top 10 guy.
From age 22 to 36, Dirk was averaging 23+8, with his ~10 peak years averaging 25+9. Dirk's top 10-20 all-time.
Paul Pierce averaged 20+6+4 from age 22 to 35, peak ~7 years averaging 23+6+5. Pierce is probably top 40-60 all-time.
Joe Johnson had ~5 20+5+5 seasons. He has an over 50% chance of making the HOF according to BKREF.
Hedo did 20+5+5 once when he was 28.
Gallo was 19+5 for 3 years.

You're an all-time guy if you do 20+6+5 for over 10 years.

Luka's not gonna be Lebron, but he starts as prime Hedo. If he can keep it up for 10+ years, he's at least gonna be a HOFer and ranks top 50 all-time.

Lillard is doing it for the 7th season now. No way am I putting him in the HOF yet. Needs to actually win something...

He's already at 17.3% chance of making the HOF on BKREF. If he keeps this up till he's 33, he'll have at least 50% chance of getting in. Oh, and Mitch Richmond has made HOF with similar numbers.

[Clyde Frazier]

I know I've been pretty much absent since the season started, but yeah... Doncic has surpassed all immediate expectations. I think his conditioning is already starting to improve, so I'm excited to see how he'll look with a full NBA season under his belt. The court vision and ball handling is just off the charts. Looking forward to catching him live against the Knicks and Nets!

Also, Dirk looks done for real He looked like a gazelle last season compared to how he's moving right now. Hopefully he can get a little more acclimated to at least play out the season.

And why is DeAndre literally allergic to defense these days?

[Drygon]

Never thought I would say this, but fair play to Mike Korzemba who predicted that Luka Doncic would become NBA's best rookie since LeBron James himself for over a year ago.

https://youtu.be/lRX2HbNgzwE

Read on Twitter

[arkuo]

I'd like for Luka and Dennis to get a ton of touches and shots next season and moving forward. Without Barnes and Matthews requiring a certain number of minutes/touches to keep them happy or to justify the amount they're being paid. With Luka we may see Harden-esque type of numbers. With Dennis as a number two option we may see improvement there too.

Just surround them with shooters and defenders. Signing Aminu and DFS back can work wonders as those two dont require specific plays ran for them unlike Barnes' required number of iso plays per game to justify that $26M price tag.

C- Jordan
PF- Doncic
SF- Aminu
SG- Finney Smith
PG- Smith Jr.

[2011Champs]

I'd like for Luka and Dennis to get a ton of touches and shots next season and moving forward. Without Barnes and Matthews requiring a certain number of minutes/touches to keep them happy or to justify the amount they're being paid. With Luka we may see Harden-esque type of numbers. With Dennis as a number two option we may see improvement there too.

Just surround them with shooters and defenders. Signing Aminu and DFS back can work wonders as those two dont require specific plays ran for them unlike Barnes' required number of iso plays per game to justify that $26M price tag.

C- Jordan
PF- Doncic
SF- Aminu
SG- Finney Smith
PG- Smith Jr.

Pass on that, either Doncic scores like 50 ppg or Dallas has the worst offense in the league with that lineup. Dallas needs players that can make buckets and spread the floor. Finney-Smith is a role player and Aminu is an offensive liability.
Unless Dallas gets really lucky in free agency it is likely both Barnes and Wes will retire as Mavericks.

[deb]

I think it's time we recognize the real MVP of this whole story.

Spoiler:

Luka's mom

She's accepting the award for Best Athlete of Slovenia 2018 in Luka's name

[BlueSan]

When you read ESPN article you truely do get it why Rick C. isnt so fondly talking about Doncic.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25566382/luka-doncic-your-average-nba-rookie-knows-it
lol

I would just wish his work ethic was top notch which means also listening to the coaches a bit more and not visiting McDonalds because the article makes it sound like that he ll one day just let himself go or a coach like Rick C will have enough after he will be playing some bad basketball or epecially when he wont be a kid anymore and the stardome on this shoulders.

Any case hopefully he has a good game today and shoots it well after a long time, I dont expect Dallas to win, but I sure hope Luka will have a good game

[Drygon]

When you read ESPN article you truely do get it why Rick C. isnt so fondly talking about Doncic.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25566382/luka-doncic-your-average-nba-rookie-knows-it
lol

I would just wish his work ethic was top notch which means also listening to the coaches a bit more and not visiting McDonalds because the article makes it sound like that he ll one day just let himself go or a coach like Rick C will have enough after he will be playing some bad basketball or epecially when he wont be a kid anymore and the stardome on this shoulders.

Any case hopefully he has a good game today and shoots it well after a long time, I dont expect Dallas to win, but I sure hope Luka will have a good game

I mean, Doncic is by far the best player in Mavs and it's not even up for debate.

The man has been consistently solid ever since he entered the league and is single-handedly carrying this team.

At this point, one should expect that Doncic will perform.

[Archx]

When you read ESPN article you truely do get it why Rick C. isnt so fondly talking about Doncic.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25566382/luka-doncic-your-average-nba-rookie-knows-it
lol

I would just wish his work ethic was top notch which means also listening to the coaches a bit more and not visiting McDonalds because the article makes it sound like that he ll one day just let himself go or a coach like Rick C will have enough after he will be playing some bad basketball or epecially when he wont be a kid anymore and the stardome on this shoulders.

Any case hopefully he has a good game today and shoots it well after a long time, I dont expect Dallas to win, but I sure hope Luka will have a good game

I mean, Doncic is by far the best player in Mavs and it's not even up for debate.

The man has been consistently solid ever since he entered the league and is single-handedly carrying this team.

At this point, one should expect that Doncic will perform.

Well yes and no. I think BlueSan basically meant that he wants to see him shoot good, which is understandable since his % dipped a bit. On the other hand, you are also correct, last 5 games he's averaging 19/7/7/1... so his all around game improved drastically. Also he is FINALLY getting some love from refs...
But i think LAC will be a rough game, they have multiple players who can defend Luka pretty well. Until he gets his body in shape, he will struggle against stronger and taller players.

[Drygon]

Watch on YouTube

[Archx]

I haven't watched the game yet and i'm just reading comments from all over the internet, something tells me i will be greatly upset when i do see the replay.
Apparently RC had Doncic on the bench for far too long and it costed them the game... But like i said, i haven't watched the game yet, just reading what people are saying.
Makes me wonder though. What does Luka have to do in order for RC realize that he is their most important and best player. Even tanking teams play their rookies more to develop, i really don't understand.