Trade Discussion 22/23

[ozwizard8]

I know it's easier to say in retrospect, but our shot at a championship after the Kyrie trade was always a long one. The roster simply has to be reconstructed to adequately evaluate the duo's ceiling.

The hardest job in the sport is to acquire a young franchise superstar. We've done that. The next hardest job is to find him a complimentary co-star. While the jury is still out on that, Kyrie appears to have more than sufficiently matured on and off the court, and the influence he'll have on future recruiting (both tangibly and reputationally) makes his retention a must. With these guys in place, you have to give Nico the chance to build around them.

If they can execute the trade above; a core of Kyrie, Luka, Josh, Maxi, Dorian, & Hardy would be a rim protecter (Myles Turner) away from legitimate contention.

If you keep making bad trades then you can never built around your star player and you'll end up trading him. While K.Love was never at Luka level, he was doing great with Wolves. They **** up with signings and trades and ended up rebuilding. Cavs did better as they got too many ring chasers so Lebron stayed until his extension finishes.

A.Davis could be another example. Pelicans did better job IMO but Davis was kept getting injured Jrue was very unlucky as his wife got cancer. Cousins injured etc. Good thing Pelicans did was trading A.Davis before it was too late. They got Ingram and some assets including Lakers' top pick. Also NBA bribed them with Zion in exchange of sending A.Davis to LA market with Lebron.
Other than Zion's injury luck they did not needed to tank to get back into playoffs. A very quick rebuild.

Right now its a great time to trade Luka. If Gobert and Durant got that many picks as 30+ players, Luka would get even more for Mavs.

* Randle+RJ Barrett+3 first round picks? Kyrie-Green-RJ-Randle-Wood plus assets. No tanking, straight to the competition.
* 6 first round picks + Chet Holmgren? Tank/rebuild 2 years.
* J. Brown + picks?
* Ingram+ CJ + picks for Luka + Bertans

We will see if OKC or the Pelicans will ever win a ring... It's easier build a PO team, the difficult part is the next level. Contender team.

Luka + 10 scrubs was a PO perennial PO team. Easy.
Contender? This the hardest part...

As a franchise I am not sure if those teams win a title. Overall, they did well to salvage their position.
- Pelicans were not going to win a title with AD. They were struggling to make playoffs. They did good with the trade and NBA bribe of Zion.
- Thunder did great with trading PG13 and Westbrook. 1st round exit team. They were going nowhere. WB was about to implode. PG13 was in top 5 in MVP voting. Great time to pull the trigger.

Luka+SGA+young core with some first-round picks is a contender. I am not saying its a dynasty. But they'd have high chance to win the title.

Even Celtics did not win a title with their star players and stacked roster in last 5-6 years. Whole Bucks-Giannis thing only won 1. Nuggest-76ers are yet to make NBA Finals... So no guarantee for winning all.

[ozwizard8]

Does Omer Yurtseven play defense? Could be a viable center candidate this offseason.

If the Mavs miss out on centers, there is always Nikola Vucevic or Bismack Biyombo.

- You shouldn't expect more than 15 mpg for Biyombo and probably not more than 40-50 games per season.

- Vucevic does not solve any defensive problems. At this age I doubt he can play a starter role for a playoff team.

- Yurtseven is young. Defensively he is not that fast, athletic or tall enough to be a rim-protecting big man. Then again he is good at rebounding, he has good hands and finish oops and p&r plays nicely. All those makes him a candidate to be reserve big men in the league. He is still trying to prove himself for that type of role. Zubac-lite?

Vucevic is the only guy Luka can realistically recruit right now. Mavs need to get desperate and send 2 FRPs to Indiana for Myles Turner now. That's the only way Indiana says yes to helping out the Mavs. No way they will do it for free.

I never said anything about Myles Turner on my message. Yes it would take picks to get him.
That is the problem of the Mavs. No assets left, only few picks left. No cap space.
I dont see a realistic way to put a competent team around Luka.

Vucevic at this age does not solve any defensive problems though. It doesn't matter whether Luka can recruit him or not. Problem is he doesn't solve any of our problems. Furthermore, he'd get at least MLE perhaps more from some other teams. So even if Luka recruited, Mavs may not have cap space to sign Vuc without a trade.

[Archx]

So Nico more or less just confirmed that Kidd is staying and role players around Luka and Kyrie are an issue. Now i understand why Kidd was saving that challenge, for the next year.

[41Dirk41]

So Nico more or less just confirmed that Kidd is staying and role players around Luka and Kyrie are an issue. Now i understand why Kidd was saving that challenge, for the next year.

It's a start...

[Mavrelous]

So Nico more or less just confirmed that Kidd is staying and role players around Luka and Kyrie are an issue. Now i understand why Kidd was saving that challenge, for the next year.

Where did you hear this?

[fuller4379]

So Nico more or less just confirmed that Kidd is staying and role players around Luka and Kyrie are an issue. Now i understand why Kidd was saving that challenge, for the next year.

Where did you hear this?

[Mavrelous]

This team isn't serious.

[Bob8]

This team isn't serious.

They need Kidd for Kyrie to sign.

[Mavrelous]

This team isn't serious.

They need Kidd for Kyrie to sign.

I'd give up both if it was a package deal.

[Bob8]

This team isn't serious.

They need Kidd for Kyrie to sign.

I'd give up both if it was a package deal.

They can, if they agree with Luka for 2 years of tanking.

[Teffer10]

They need Kidd for Kyrie to sign.

I'd give up both if it was a package deal.

They can, if they agree with Luka for 2 years of tanking.

That will happen anyway if they keep Kidd.

[Mavrelous]

I'd give up both if it was a package deal.

They can, if they agree with Luka for 2 years of tanking.

That will happen anyway if they keep Kidd.

Yep.

[arkuo]

Kidd is weak with on court stuff but is strong with off court connections and relationships. That's why he keeps getting paid his millions. That's how it is in other industries anyway. It's who you know that gets you pull.

[Mavrelous]

Kidd is weak with on court stuff but is strong with off court connections and relationships. That's why he keeps getting paid his millions. That's how it is in other industries anyway. It's who you know that gets you pull.

You need results to get paid, Kidd didn't bring result, totally mismanaged 40 millions worth of cap allocation (Bertans, Wood and McGee), that's 25% of his budget, and played to roster weaknesses rather than strengths, it was clear for game 20, the roster will not be able to defend like last year, rather than go all out offense, he maintained the weird lineups.
There aren't enough words to describe the head scratchers Kidd pulled in this season, he should've been fired mid season.
From bird's eye view, Jason Kidd brought this roster to getting booed at home while having Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving on roster, this alone should've given Nico the signal to STFU about praising him to the fanbase.

[Bob8]

They can, if they agree with Luka for 2 years of tanking.

That will happen anyway if they keep Kidd.

Yep.

If they let Wood and Kyrie go, you have the same team as last year - Dinwiddie, Wood and DFS and around 30 mio of cap space. 99% guaranteed much worse roster than this year, and you have thrown 2 FRPs and 1 SRP away for nothing.

Keeping Kyrie is risky too, but you at least can hope to build some kind of good team around those 2.

If they decide for option 1, Nico should go too, because it would be total failure for him.

[Mavrelous]

That will happen anyway if they keep Kidd.

Yep.

If they let Wood and Kyrie go, you have the same team as last year - Dinwiddie, Wood and DFS and around 30 mio of cap space. 99% guaranteed much worse roster than this year, and you have thrown 2 FRPs and 1 SRP away for nothing.

Keeping Kyrie is risky too, but you at least can hope to build some kind of good team around those 2.

If they decide for option 1, Nico should go too, because it would be total failure for him.

Wood will be let go IMO, maybe S&T to get some value back.
I don't think Kyrie puts a condition on retaining Kidd, he doesn't have this kind of leverage, even if he does, they have a great example of sticking to a coach just not to piss off Kyrie and the other star, Nash was an abject failure in Brooklyn, and he was kept until the stars themselves demanded he is fired, the other star left because of the coddling to Kyrie and KD and lack of professionalism.

This isn't how a serious franchise operates.

[daoneandonly]

Nico should go regardless, what has he done that is even decent?

Trade with Washington? Terrible
Trade with Houston? Irrelevant
SIgning McGeee to 3 years? No one could explain it then, no one can explain it now
Trade with BKN? SHort sighted and bombed

[Darren]

I think leadership, lack of muscle and well-documented. Luka can't play off ball until the conditioning is good enough to play defense and became elite outside shooter. Another big issue is Luka can't play too fast. I think it's gonna be tough for Luka to get out of comfort zone. Ironically, there are plenty of PGs but few 3D players. Basically, Gobert, Grant or Stewart are going to be the target in trade market. I think Luka is frustrated about uptempo games where conditioning and working against weaknesses is a must. Sacrificing a lot of beloved food is tough. Taking blame for bad record is also a factor.

[Mavrelous]

Nico should go regardless, what has he done that is even decent?

Trade with Washington? Terrible
Trade with Houston? Irrelevant
SIgning McGeee to 3 years? No one could explain it then, no one can explain it now
Trade with BKN? SHort sighted and bombed

Giving up cap space to re-sign THJ -- bad
Trading KP for bad contracts 4 months after you decided to sign THJ and build on the current core while leaving Brunson unextended -- disastrous

No planning behind any of moves, just going through the motions, resulted on a lottery team deep in luxury tax, with 2 major holes, and 3rd pending FA this is beyond terrible.
His only good moves were Bullock for MLE, lasted one season, he's not good this year, and Jaden Hardy.

[arkuo]

Kidd is weak with on court stuff but is strong with off court connections and relationships. That's why he keeps getting paid his millions. That's how it is in other industries anyway. It's who you know that gets you pull.

You need results to get paid, Kidd didn't bring result, totally mismanaged 40 millions worth of cap allocation (Bertans, Wood and McGee), that's 25% of his budget, and played to roster weaknesses rather than strengths, it was clear for game 20, the roster will not be able to defend like last year, rather than go all out offense, he maintained the weird lineups.
There aren't enough words to describe the head scratchers Kidd pulled in this season, he should've been fired mid season.
From bird's eye view, Jason Kidd brought this roster to getting booed at home while having Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving on roster, this alone should've given Nico the signal to STFU about praising him to the fanbase.

That's what I said. He failed the job description but gets the job because of connections. This is how most rich americans land jobs after college because of daddy's friends and connections. Kidd is underhanded AF. This is a bloke who asked a player to bump into him on purpose so he can spill his drink and get a free timeout. I wouldnt put it past him to be able to pull connections to keep his job. He even has Dirk's vote of confidence. Dirk's jersey should get unretired after voting for Kidd for the coaching job. What a mess.