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Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic

Moderators: Dirk, HMFFL, Mavrelous

Would you trade DSJ for

Poll ended at Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:20 am

Yes, Bamba
14
27%
Yes, Isaac
19
37%
Yes, J.Jackson
3
6%
No, I wouldn't trade him for any of these.
16
31%
 
Total votes: 52

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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#81 » by arkuo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:06 pm

jpengland wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Captain_Obvious wrote:Really strange timing with the DJ revelation (unlikely to get multi year extension)

You'd think this can only get leaked from one of Cuban / Donnie / Carlisle.


My best guess is leak is coming from Carlisle who maybe feels his job is in trouble and trying to bring the whole ship down with him. But that is just my guess as Cuban and Donnie are really tight.

Regarding coaching changes, I dont see it happening. However guys like Thibs, Blatt, Ty Lue and SVG are unemployed right now. Anyone else think Coach K would like to move to the NBA?




Why would Rick Carlisle try to bring the ship down?!?

If Carlisle walked, he would have job offers immediately and could pretty much pick his franchise come the offseason. Hes universally regarded as a top 5 coach in the league.

As for replacing him, you think RC is set in his ways but you would advocate Thibs or SVG? Christ...


First, I said it was just a guess. With no factual basis to back it up.

Secondly, nothing in the post suggested me advocating Thibs or SVG. I merely stated names of coaches who are unemployed right now.

Thank you for reading.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#82 » by 2011Champs » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:14 pm

I’d love to see the results of a poll of NBA fans and see what their opinion is of Rick Carlisle is and if they would replace their current coach with him. I don’t think he is viewed as favorably as our local media thinks he is.

That being said, I want no trade to go down and DSJ to remain a Maverick for now. Luka and DSJ just need more time
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#83 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:17 pm

Dirk wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:

Give your scoop on:

- what is the general consensus on the referenced Magic thread/appetite for DSJ
- Isaac
- Bamba
- Fournier
- Vucevic
- do an essay on the history of English literature

Deadline is Friday, 1PM EST. JK.


Would Mavs do a deal DSJ for Isaac straight up? That is the question a good amount of Magic fans want to know.. We all know ya'll really really want AG but I would be shocked to see that happen.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#84 » by 2011Champs » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:29 pm

2011Champs wrote:I’d love to see the results of a poll of NBA fans and see what their opinion is of Rick Carlisle is and if they would replace their current coach with him. I don’t think he is viewed as favorably as our local media thinks he is.

That being said, I want no trade to go down and DSJ to remain a Maverick for now. Luka and DSJ just need more time

I put a poll up on the general board just to try to gauge what fan’s opinions are
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#85 » by DJ_3_Ball » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:36 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Dirk wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:

Give your scoop on:

- what is the general consensus on the referenced Magic thread/appetite for DSJ
- Isaac
- Bamba
- Fournier
- Vucevic
- do an essay on the history of English literature

Deadline is Friday, 1PM EST. JK.


Would Mavs do a deal DSJ for Isaac straight up? That is the question a good amount of Magic fans want to know.. We all know ya'll really really want AG but I would be shocked to see that happen.


Isaac is the only player that I would be happy about seeing DSJ moved for. People are too kind regarding Doncic's defense and too optimistic about his potential to improve defensively, in my opinion. Doncic needs a teammate who can make an impact on the defensive end, a DPOY candidate. Isaac has that potential. I wouldn't hate Mikal Bridges in a DSJ trade, but I wouldn't love it either. I'd be neutral on him or Josh Jackson. I'd be against Ntilikina and Bamba, but I'd understand it.

To answer your question, I think most Mavs fans would be against that trade because they look at Isaac's offense & don't see his upside on that end. They'd worry about his underdeveloped body & worry.

I was made aware of Isaac's star potential by Jake Kemp, a local sports talk show host in the Dallas area & big time Mavs fan who hosts their post game show. Ever since then I've kept an eye on Isaac. I know Jake would say it's a huge win for the Mavs, and I would feel similar, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the fan base.

Conversely, and this seems to often be the case where each side overvalues its own asset, it seems like the Magic fans think Isaac for DSJ is a huge loss for them. I see DSJ having the potential to develop into Westbrook Jr & ORL being a place that doesn't sign FAs well. Having DSJ at the point is probably much better than anything else the Magic will acquire over the next 5 to 10 years. I think DSJ & Gordon seem to be fast friends & might wind up being able to keep each other in ORL.

Isaac is a fantastic prospect, but it's hard to imagine ever being competitive in today's NBA when your best playmaker is DJ Augustin.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#86 » by Dirk » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:44 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:Would Mavs do a deal DSJ for Isaac straight up? That is the question a good amount of Magic fans want to know.. We all know ya'll really really want AG but I would be shocked to see that happen.


Bizarrely enough, there is a notion that the Mavs are making moves more with a 'win now mentality'. It would still shock me to think that they'd be talking about Fournier or something. But answering your question, on the little fans can know based on the twitter feeds/supposed insiders... the Mavs would do that deal (for Isaac) since the latest development in the soap opera is that DSJ/Coach have issues. Player missed practice directly after all the trade rumours were circling yesterday. You'd think they would like to trade him before his value tanks further. And by the way, it really didn't feel like DSJ was that valued to begin with, so to me it always made more sense for the Mavs to actually invest in his development to see what they had in him and if it didn't work out, then look to trade him for a "better fit".

The Mavs have handled this terribly. And I am embarrassed. As a Magic fan you're well aware of how much it pains you to see losing seasons and then realise the guys you got after all the losing didn't work out, weren't properly developed or were tossed away easily. The Mavs are doing just that. Always deprived of young talent. They finally have a high pick. Invest the 9th pick one year and then the next season they have (or the coach based on "reports") a ridiculous falling out with a player that may not be the best fit looking down the line, but ha never looked like a malcontent and wasn't that bad on the court to be treated like this and have this ridiculous situation of having trade rumours around him for various weeks now, that finally escalated 48 hours ago with the Woj tweet.

Personally, I am just tuning this whole soap opera out and will wait for the finish to then properly assess all that happened because at the moment we're operating based on sources that may or may not be that reliable and that has lead me to be aggravated with the way this has been handled by the Mavs.

P.S: check poll results on this topic. Feels like it's a rotund yes to Isaac (I do wonder if RC would play him)
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#87 » by Archx » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:46 pm

In todays game, defense is overrated. If Bowen, Battier, Tony Allen etc.. played today, they would foul out in 5 mins. Weak side defense is probably more important than anything and Doncic is really good at that.
But Mavs have huge issues on offense, specially now that Barea went down. The only real threats are Luka and Barnes. You need more offensive threats on the floor to really be more effective. Wesley is a black hole on offense and so is DAJ with his butter hands. If trade really happens, AG is the only guy i would trade DSJ for with ORL. Kleber and AG together on the floor, 2 guys that can stretch the floor with Barnes and Luka, that would be fun to watch.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#88 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:52 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Dirk wrote:Give your scoop on:

- what is the general consensus on the referenced Magic thread/appetite for DSJ
- Isaac
- Bamba
- Fournier
- Vucevic
- do an essay on the history of English literature

Deadline is Friday, 1PM EST. JK.


Would Mavs do a deal DSJ for Isaac straight up? That is the question a good amount of Magic fans want to know.. We all know ya'll really really want AG but I would be shocked to see that happen.


Isaac is the only player that I would be happy about seeing DSJ moved for. People are too kind regarding Doncic's defense and too optimistic about his potential to improve defensively, in my opinion. Doncic needs a teammate who can make an impact on the defensive end, a DPOY candidate. Isaac has that potential. I wouldn't hate Mikal Bridges in a DSJ trade, but I wouldn't love it either. I'd be neutral on him or Josh Jackson. I'd be against Ntilikina and Bamba, but I'd understand it.

To answer your question, I think most Mavs fans would be against that trade because they look at Isaac's offense & don't see his upside on that end. They'd worry about his underdeveloped body & worry.

I was made aware of Isaac's star potential by Jake Kemp, a local sports talk show host in the Dallas area & big time Mavs fan who hosts their post game show. Ever since then I've kept an eye on Isaac. I know Jake would say it's a huge win for the Mavs, and I would feel similar, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the fan base.

Conversely, and this seems to often be the case where each side overvalues its own asset, it seems like the Magic fans think Isaac for DSJ is a huge loss for them. I see DSJ having the potential to develop into Westbrook Jr & ORL being a place that doesn't sign FAs well. Having DSJ at the point is probably much better than anything else the Magic will acquire over the next 5 to 10 years. I think DSJ & Gordon seem to be fast friends & might wind up being able to keep each other in ORL.

Isaac is a fantastic prospect, but it's hard to imagine ever being competitive in today's NBA when your best playmaker is DJ Augustin.



ohh man this was beautifully written and couldn't agree more.

If I'm Orlando and I'm looking at realistic FA PG targets I'm coming up with Rubio, Lin, Rozier and Cory Joseph. I'm also looking at where I likely will be positioned for Draft (10-20 pick) and Magic will miss out on Morant, Langford and might be able to get Garland. None of those excite me as much as DSJ does.

Isaac is a very special player for sure but we just signed AG who is having another solid season and plays the same position. Placing Isaac round peg PF into a square SF hole does nothing but kill Orlando when AG/Isaac play together. They overlap in so many ways and you're forcing Isaac to the 3 where he has shown right now he's not super comfortable. Now that's not saying he won't get comfortable but I have a hard time believing he will make big enough strides playing off the bench/in lineups with AG and I'm not starting Isaac due to Magic lack of scoring/creating punch. Magic fans still are praying that this Giannis lite figure will show up and Isaac just "needs plays run for him" and he will be fine.

I totally see DSJ being a big positive for Orlando for many of the same reasons you mentioned. DSJ + AG would instantly mesh and likely would be the face of the Magic. DSJ would solve the PG problem and Magic could then use the upcoming 2019 Cap Space to resign one of Vuc/Tross and then find NBA talent to put on the bench which is where the bigger problem is.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#89 » by Bob8 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:12 pm

as unpopular Ntilikina looks at first sight, he might be the best possible fit with Luka, if he can become lockdown defender. we have to understand that Frank cannot do things that Knicks want from him, but he will need to do totally different things in Dallas. It's a gamble, but in theory he should function great with Luka. Luka will do all fancy stuff and Frank all dirty work.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#90 » by thr3ep01nte4 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:35 pm

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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#91 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:32 pm

2011Champs wrote:I’d love to see the results of a poll of NBA fans and see what their opinion is of Rick Carlisle is and if they would replace their current coach with him. I don’t think he is viewed as favorably as our local media thinks he is.

That being said, I want no trade to go down and DSJ to remain a Maverick for now. Luka and DSJ just need more time


Yeah he is. He's widely seen as a top 5 coach. Only here in Dallas where we expect him to work miracles with untalented rosters and where we got spoiled by prime Dirk is he seen in a negative light. Guy can flat coach.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#92 » by LIENT » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:24 am

Dirk wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:Would Mavs do a deal DSJ for Isaac straight up? That is the question a good amount of Magic fans want to know.. We all know ya'll really really want AG but I would be shocked to see that happen.


Bizarrely enough, there is a notion that the Mavs are making moves more with a 'win now mentality'. It would still shock me to think that they'd be talking about Fournier or something. But answering your question, on the little fans can know based on the twitter feeds/supposed insiders... the Mavs would do that deal (for Isaac) since the latest development in the soap opera is that DSJ/Coach have issues. Player missed practice directly after all the trade rumours were circling yesterday. You'd think they would like to trade him before his value tanks further. And by the way, it really didn't feel like DSJ was that valued to begin with, so to me it always made more sense for the Mavs to actually invest in his development to see what they had in him and if it didn't work out, then look to trade him for a "better fit".

The Mavs have handled this terribly. And I am embarrassed. As a Magic fan you're well aware of how much it pains you to see losing seasons and then realise the guys you got after all the losing didn't work out, weren't properly developed or were tossed away easily. The Mavs are doing just that. Always deprived of young talent. They finally have a high pick. Invest the 9th pick one year and then the next season they have (or the coach based on "reports") a ridiculous falling out with a player that may not be the best fit looking down the line, but ha never looked like a malcontent and wasn't that bad on the court to be treated like this and have this ridiculous situation of having trade rumours around him for various weeks now, that finally escalated 48 hours ago with the Woj tweet.

Personally, I am just tuning this whole soap opera out and will wait for the finish to then properly assess all that happened because at the moment we're operating based on sources that may or may not be that reliable and that has lead me to be aggravated with the way this has been handled by the Mavs.

P.S: check poll results on this topic. Feels like it's a rotund yes to Isaac (I do wonder if RC would play him)


Really well written mate. TBH it sounds like a repeat of the clash between Carlisle and Rondo, the rhetoric at the time that the team needed to be managed at the Point by Rick from the sidelines, which totally clashes with the playing style of Rondo. In this instance we probably have Rick trying to instill that same core value in DSJ, as a young player - versus Luka who essentially has the keys to the team from from Game 10 onwards.

I also don't want to speculate cause I'm tired of it already and there is a lot of misinformation out there. I just hope it wraps up soon, and we don't get fleeced if a trade goes out. But I really don't want a trade to go down..unless we are the ones doing the fleecing.

:(
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#93 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:30 am

hi Mavs board. Chicago resident here ready to call himself a full throated mavs fan. I ordered NBA league pass this year....just to watch mavs games. and yes...i'm almost solely a Doncic fan.

I haven't enjoyed watching a player more since Steph/warriors in 2015 and magic and bird in the 80's.

I just dont like iso basketball. not my cup of tea and its especially beautiful to watch teams/players win off of a combo of BBall IQ and skills over athleticsm and size.


So on with this trade:

1. It is clear that DSJ will bring back the most significant player.
2. it is clear DSJ wants to be the man and doesn't know how to do it off ball.
3. It is clear DSJ might grow into a good PG, perhaps even as good as Lillard type PG.
4. PG's like DSJ are a premium. So The mavs might get something really good in return.

The mavs also have 3 massive expirings(correct me if im wrong) in barnes, mathews and DAJ...only Barnes is playing up to his contract and is also a good fit with Luka.

Let me be clear: Luka Doncic is a once in a lifetime generational type player like Bird, Magic, MJ, Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. He is that good right now...which make him a "win now" type of player.

DSJ is NOT ready to win now. And DAJ and wes are not good enough to win now with. <--all 3 should be on trade market.

because Dallas has quickly entered "win now" phase of rebuilding they should not be afraid to take back player 28-30 years old. Similar to the IGGY trade that launched GSW.

Oddly, Iggy came from Philly. Where Jimmy Butler is now...and chemistry is an issue. Jimmy Butler is the perfect running mate with Luka.

1. Jimmy is an elite defender in spurts and can be all game as well. great motor.
2. unlike DSJ, jimmy is a decent decision maker albeit not very creative.
3. jimmy also draws a ton of fouls. so with Luke as #1 and #2 options the mavs will put teams in foul trouble and have a high team TS%.
4. jimmy can make shots off ball. and is also clutch. not as clutch as luka.
5. The only issue JImmy will have is "touches." he is in a contract year and wants touches. Cuban can easily calm him down and bring jimmy in on some off court deals or mentor jimmy as a millionaire type player in the future.
6. So if Cuban and Luka can get jimmy to "Buy in" to Luka's game as the main play makers and main shot creator and main scoring option...jimmy is as good as a #2 that any team can ask for...again...so long as jimmy slows his roll.
7. Cuban can simply take jimmy off to the side and be like..."come in" "take the 2nd option role" "be nice" and i'll give you 4 year 32 million deal. which is a good deal if jimmy willingly accepts the #2 option.
8. Jimmy and luka are also the perfect pair to stager minutes. like durant and steph.

9. the only player that would be better than Jimmy as a side kick to luka is kawhi (whom you can still get in the offseason if you have jimmy).

So the deal would be DSJ and Wes Mathews for Jimmy butler and TJ mcconnel.

That is the perfect trade. and the mavs can win right now with that trade.

In the offseason the mav would then allow every free agent (barnes, jimmy, Dirk, and DAJ and all the other smaller contracts as well) to become free agents and go after kawhi and Jimmy.

Thats the perfect team and almost any role players will fit around it.

Luka, kawhi, Jimmy.

<--especially if they can get to 3nD to surround them. perhaps resigning Mathews on the cheap. JJ(if if makes it back. mcconnel.

but even if you only get jimmy its still a great trade. Then sign Niko Mirotic in the offseason. resign barnes.

Luka/brunson/mcconnel
Jimmy/brunson/FA
Barnes/ elite defedner FA
Powell/kleber/dirk?
Mirotic/ shot blocking free agent like tyson chandler?

^^55 win team and give GSW all they can handle.

death line up for offense:

Brunson
Luka
Jimmy
Barnes
Mirotic

anyhow...jimmy is the best target right now for DSJ
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#94 » by BlueSan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:51 am

The challenges with Jimmy as you have mentioned are probably

1. The attitude trend he is displaying (First Chicago, then Wolves, now 76s?
2. The "clutch" mamba mentality and amount of touches, which kind of scream he wants to be the guy, but realisitcally cannot be on majority of teams
3. The fit with Doncic. Personally with what I have seen from Luka in his career and what he is showing you as he is progressing, a player like Buttler demanding so much spot light in plays and the ball in his hand as he does is actually not the best pairing to go with Luka. Think more about people like Klay Thompson and alike when talking about ideal pairings and fit for Luka, who literally excells when usage rate goes up, attacks come through him and so on. Same thing was with Real Madrid, where people would just scream for Campazzo to give Luka the ball and you would almost demand it to touch Luka's hand at least once on every single possession and dont forget we were mainly talking about an 18 year old kid, so even pre-current Luka which is definitely an improved player and what we are seeing in this past month is exactly that ... Luka handling the ball, Luka the playmaker and it shows in how the game of the team and game of Luka is improving as a result as more and more players buy into the tactics
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#95 » by Teffer10 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:05 am

stilldropin20 wrote:hi Mavs board. Chicago resident here ready to call himself a full throated mavs fan. I ordered NBA league pass this year....just to watch mavs games. and yes...i'm almost solely a Doncic fan.

I haven't enjoyed watching a player more since Steph/warriors in 2015 and magic and bird in the 80's.

I just dont like iso basketball. not my cup of tea and its especially beautiful to watch teams/players win off of a combo of BBall IQ and skills over athleticsm and size.


So on with this trade:

1. It is clear that DSJ will bring back the most significant player.
2. it is clear DSJ wants to be the man and doesn't know how to do it off ball.
3. It is clear DSJ might grow into a good PG, perhaps even as good as Lillard type PG.
4. PG's like DSJ are a premium. So The mavs might get something really good in return.

The mavs also have 3 massive expirings(correct me if im wrong) in barnes, mathews and DAJ...only Barnes is playing up to his contract and is also a good fit with Luka.

Let me be clear: Luka Doncic is a once in a lifetime generational type player like Bird, Magic, MJ, Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. He is that good right now...which make him a "win now" type of player.

DSJ is NOT ready to win now. And DAJ and wes are not good enough to win now with. <--all 3 should be on trade market.

because Dallas has quickly entered "win now" phase of rebuilding they should not be afraid to take back player 28-30 years old. Similar to the IGGY trade that launched GSW.

Oddly, Iggy came from Philly. Where Jimmy Butler is now...and chemistry is an issue. Jimmy Butler is the perfect running mate with Luka.

1. Jimmy is an elite defender in spurts and can be all game as well. great motor.
2. unlike DSJ, jimmy is a decent decision maker albeit not very creative.
3. jimmy also draws a ton of fouls. so with Luke as #1 and #2 options the mavs will put teams in foul trouble and have a high team TS%.
4. jimmy can make shots off ball. and is also clutch. not as clutch as luka.
5. The only issue JImmy will have is "touches." he is in a contract year and wants touches. Cuban can easily calm him down and bring jimmy in on some off court deals or mentor jimmy as a millionaire type player in the future.
6. So if Cuban and Luka can get jimmy to "Buy in" to Luka's game as the main play makers and main shot creator and main scoring option...jimmy is as good as a #2 that any team can ask for...again...so long as jimmy slows his roll.
7. Cuban can simply take jimmy off to the side and be like..."come in" "take the 2nd option role" "be nice" and i'll give you 4 year 32 million deal. which is a good deal if jimmy willingly accepts the #2 option.
8. Jimmy and luka are also the perfect pair to stager minutes. like durant and steph.

9. the only player that would be better than Jimmy as a side kick to luka is kawhi (whom you can still get in the offseason if you have jimmy).

So the deal would be DSJ and Wes Mathews for Jimmy butler and TJ mcconnel.

That is the perfect trade. and the mavs can win right now with that trade.

In the offseason the mav would then allow every free agent (barnes, jimmy, Dirk, and DAJ and all the other smaller contracts as well) to become free agents and go after kawhi and Jimmy.

Thats the perfect team and almost any role players will fit around it.

Luka, kawhi, Jimmy.

<--especially if they can get to 3nD to surround them. perhaps resigning Mathews on the cheap. JJ(if if makes it back. mcconnel.

but even if you only get jimmy its still a great trade. Then sign Niko Mirotic in the offseason. resign barnes.

Luka/brunson/mcconnel
Jimmy/brunson/FA
Barnes/ elite defedner FA
Powell/kleber/dirk?
Mirotic/ shot blocking free agent like tyson chandler?

^^55 win team and give GSW all they can handle.

death line up for offense:

Brunson
Luka
Jimmy
Barnes
Mirotic

anyhow...jimmy is the best target right now for DSJ

Biggest issue I have with Butler is his age compared with Luka. Butler is 10 years older starting the back side of his career and Luka is just beginning his. I agree with the fit but his age and the possibility of him bolting and also clashing with Rick make me want no part of Butler.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#96 » by Luka_be_Dope » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:23 am

No way would I trade DSJ for a poor mans Blake Griffin (Gordon), wheelchair wannabe (Isaac), or a 2017 Mustang with a 302 from a '67 and no tires (Jackson).

Someone mentioned Beal, however, which is an intriguing idea, but I doubt Washington would do it unless they're packing it in and taking back Matthew's and using the stretch provision on Wall.

Someone else mentioned Kris Dunn...he is a serviceable PG...but I'd hope for a little more than serviceable in any trade return.

Honestly, if they do trade DSJ, the best value they can hope for is a top 15 pick...which I'd be more okay with than any of the names I've heard mentioned, aside from Beal.

Bottom line, it's stupid to trade DSJ, but the rumors are coming from somewhere and no one is denying it...so I guess it is what it is.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#97 » by stilldropin20 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:23 am

Teffer10 wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:hi Mavs board. Chicago resident here ready to call himself a full throated mavs fan. I ordered NBA league pass this year....just to watch mavs games. and yes...i'm almost solely a Doncic fan.

I haven't enjoyed watching a player more since Steph/warriors in 2015 and magic and bird in the 80's.

I just dont like iso basketball. not my cup of tea and its especially beautiful to watch teams/players win off of a combo of BBall IQ and skills over athleticsm and size.


So on with this trade:

1. It is clear that DSJ will bring back the most significant player.
2. it is clear DSJ wants to be the man and doesn't know how to do it off ball.
3. It is clear DSJ might grow into a good PG, perhaps even as good as Lillard type PG.
4. PG's like DSJ are a premium. So The mavs might get something really good in return.

The mavs also have 3 massive expirings(correct me if im wrong) in barnes, mathews and DAJ...only Barnes is playing up to his contract and is also a good fit with Luka.

Let me be clear: Luka Doncic is a once in a lifetime generational type player like Bird, Magic, MJ, Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. He is that good right now...which make him a "win now" type of player.

DSJ is NOT ready to win now. And DAJ and wes are not good enough to win now with. <--all 3 should be on trade market.

because Dallas has quickly entered "win now" phase of rebuilding they should not be afraid to take back player 28-30 years old. Similar to the IGGY trade that launched GSW.

Oddly, Iggy came from Philly. Where Jimmy Butler is now...and chemistry is an issue. Jimmy Butler is the perfect running mate with Luka.

1. Jimmy is an elite defender in spurts and can be all game as well. great motor.
2. unlike DSJ, jimmy is a decent decision maker albeit not very creative.
3. jimmy also draws a ton of fouls. so with Luke as #1 and #2 options the mavs will put teams in foul trouble and have a high team TS%.
4. jimmy can make shots off ball. and is also clutch. not as clutch as luka.
5. The only issue JImmy will have is "touches." he is in a contract year and wants touches. Cuban can easily calm him down and bring jimmy in on some off court deals or mentor jimmy as a millionaire type player in the future.
6. So if Cuban and Luka can get jimmy to "Buy in" to Luka's game as the main play makers and main shot creator and main scoring option...jimmy is as good as a #2 that any team can ask for...again...so long as jimmy slows his roll.
7. Cuban can simply take jimmy off to the side and be like..."come in" "take the 2nd option role" "be nice" and i'll give you 4 year 32 million deal. which is a good deal if jimmy willingly accepts the #2 option.
8. Jimmy and luka are also the perfect pair to stager minutes. like durant and steph.

9. the only player that would be better than Jimmy as a side kick to luka is kawhi (whom you can still get in the offseason if you have jimmy).

So the deal would be DSJ and Wes Mathews for Jimmy butler and TJ mcconnel.

That is the perfect trade. and the mavs can win right now with that trade.

In the offseason the mav would then allow every free agent (barnes, jimmy, Dirk, and DAJ and all the other smaller contracts as well) to become free agents and go after kawhi and Jimmy.

Thats the perfect team and almost any role players will fit around it.

Luka, kawhi, Jimmy.

<--especially if they can get to 3nD to surround them. perhaps resigning Mathews on the cheap. JJ(if if makes it back. mcconnel.

but even if you only get jimmy its still a great trade. Then sign Niko Mirotic in the offseason. resign barnes.

Luka/brunson/mcconnel
Jimmy/brunson/FA
Barnes/ elite defedner FA
Powell/kleber/dirk?
Mirotic/ shot blocking free agent like tyson chandler?

^^55 win team and give GSW all they can handle.

death line up for offense:

Brunson
Luka
Jimmy
Barnes
Mirotic

anyhow...jimmy is the best target right now for DSJ

Biggest issue I have with Butler is his age compared with Luka. Butler is 10 years older starting the back side of his career and Luka is just beginning his. I agree with the fit but his age and the possibility of him bolting and also clashing with Rick make me want no part of Butler.


well ideally the mavs get back a young win now swing player that hits high volume of 3's at 38% or better that is on a rookie contract or long term value contract for a few more years.

i dont think you(we? :) ) can get a good (win now) young player, though. No one gives them up. No. ONe. So as much as i dislike Jimmy, I'd be happy with Butler as the #2 to Doncic. Thing about Jimmy is he wants 3 things. 1. money. 2. money. 3 money. well the 4. thing is a large role on offense and 5. to win. he will get the most money far and away from whatever his current team is. Jimmy is a decent/good recruiter of vets. Luka and Dirk can recruit Euros.

Jimmy is in great shape. and very low miles for his age. not (major) prone. strong athlete. game is more floor based than athleticsm. so he is good for a solid 5 years. you cant ask for more than that. a young player can leave just as a 29 year old get old. jimmy is win-now.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#98 » by DJ_3_Ball » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:58 am

Heard Tim MacMahon on the pregame show on ESPN 103.3 FM tonight. He said a few interesting things, and two of those were things I wasn't previously aware of.

#1 - He thinks the target is Aaron Gordon, and while he admits it might seem a little far-fetched, he points out the current Magic FO did not draft Gordon, they sort of inherited him, so they might be more willing to move him than we'd think. Granted, they did resign him, but that's almost a foregone conclusion for a small market team with a star player, IF that star player is willing to come to the table. MacMahon said it definitely will take more than DSJ & Matthews to acquire Gordon or as he put it, "Gordon would already be a Maverick"

#2 - He said he thinks the Mavs would pass on a DSJ for Bamba swap. He said if the Mavs had stayed at #5 they would of drafted Wendell Carter Jr. He also talked about how Bamba is a player who can't help a team til the '21-'22 season at the earliest, and he just doesn't think the Mavs are interested in waiting that long for a player to develop.

Actually, Chuck Cooperstein made this point. When asked, "Do you think there's any chance the Mavs can repair this situation with DSJ?" Chuck said, "Didn't Poppovich once try and force Tony Parker out of town for Jason Kidd?" Basically went on to say they worked it out, so why can't Carlisle & DSJ?


The Gordon thing is interesting to me. A) Because the trade rumors with ORL & DAL are still active, and Gordon is who I think the Mavs covet. I personally think it should be Isaac, but I don't think the Mavs look at what's best for 5-8 years from now. I think they look at what's best for 5-8 months from now... Normally, in trade talks like this if ORL wasn't open to moving him at all, then talks would be dead, but they don't appear to be. It seems to be more ORL is playing hardball & forcing the Mavs' hand.

IF, Dallas does acquire Gordon, then I think it's a package that looks like this: DSJ, Kleber, Wes Matthews and one/maybe two 1st round picks for Gordon and whatever bloated contract the Magic want to swap for Wes... How would everyone here feel about that?

I personally would be scared S-less that Kleber turns into a better player than Gordon all by himself. But, I think if I'm the Mavs and ORL makes him part of the deal or they call it off, then I have to include him for a player like Gordon (mainly because of how he'd pair with Luka). I'd hate losing the 1st round picks, but if you have Doncic & Gordon, then I think hitting the FA market hard makes sense. I can't count how many lobs Doncic has thrown DeAndre Jordan that he hasn't either gone up & got or let fumble through his hands. With Gordon, if he doesn't come down with it than nobody was going to. I don't think you could ask for a better lob partner for Luka. He's pretty much 6-10 DSJ.

MacMahon talked about Gordon playing a Shawn Marion-like role (while he was in PHX) if he came to the Mavs. That's an appealing idea as well. Run the floor, catch lobs, board & hit catch & shoot 3s.

The other side of this is Isaac. Imo, Isaac can be Tyson Chandler to Luka's Dirk. Really would like to see Isaac here, but I don't think the Mavs are looking that far ahead.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#99 » by DJ_3_Ball » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:04 am

Luka_be_Dope wrote:No way would I trade DSJ for a poor mans Blake Griffin (Gordon), wheelchair wannabe (Isaac), or a 2017 Mustang with a 302 from a '67 and no tires (Jackson).

Someone mentioned Beal, however, which is an intriguing idea, but I doubt Washington would do it unless they're packing it in and taking back Matthew's and using the stretch provision on Wall.

Someone else mentioned Kris Dunn...he is a serviceable PG...but I'd hope for a little more than serviceable in any trade return.

Honestly, if they do trade DSJ, the best value they can hope for is a top 15 pick...which I'd be more okay with than any of the names I've heard mentioned, aside from Beal.

Bottom line, it's stupid to trade DSJ, but the rumors are coming from somewhere and no one is denying it...so I guess it is what it is.


To be fair, what are we calling Blake Griffin if CP3 never shows up in LA? His "rookie year" was classic "Somebody has to score these points & grab these rebounds". I mean, Christ he played 38 mpg that season. Gordon has literally played with G-league quality PGs while he's been in ORL.

To be fair to Isaac, Giannis had some physique concerns his first couple seasons in the league & he's turned out just fine. Granted, Giannis works his ass off in the weight room & conditioning like none other, aside from maybe Kobe & Dirk. That kind of dedication & maybe Isaac doesn't have that because few do, but his physique alone should not disqualify him from consideration.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#100 » by BlueSan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:10 am

DJ_3_Ball wrote:Heard Tim MacMahon on the pregame show on ESPN 103.3 FM tonight. He said a few interesting things, and two of those were things I wasn't previously aware of.

#1 - He thinks the target is Aaron Gordon, and while he admits it might seem a little far-fetched, he points out the current Magic FO did not draft Gordon, they sort of inherited him, so they might be more willing to move him than we'd think. Granted, they did resign him, but that's almost a foregone conclusion for a small market team with a star player, IF that star player is willing to come to the table. MacMahon said it definitely will take more than DSJ & Matthews to acquire Gordon or as he put it, "Gordon would already be a Maverick"

#2 - He said he thinks the Mavs would pass on a DSJ for Bamba swap. He said if the Mavs had stayed at #5 they would of drafted Wendell Carter Jr. He also talked about how Bamba is a player who can't help a team til the '21-'22 season at the earliest, and he just doesn't think the Mavs are interested in waiting that long for a player to develop.

Actually, Chuck Cooperstein made this point. When asked, "Do you think there's any chance the Mavs can repair this situation with DSJ?" Chuck said, "Didn't Poppovich once try and force Tony Parker out of town for Jason Kidd?" Basically went on to say they worked it out, so why can't Carlisle & DSJ?


The Gordon thing is interesting to me. A) Because the trade rumors with ORL & DAL are still active, and Gordon is who I think the Mavs covet. I personally think it should be Isaac, but I don't think the Mavs look at what's best for 5-8 years from now. I think they look at what's best for 5-8 months from now... Normally, in trade talks like this if ORL wasn't open to moving him at all, then talks would be dead, but they don't appear to be. It seems to be more ORL is playing hardball & forcing the Mavs' hand.

IF, Dallas does acquire Gordon, then I think it's a package that looks like this: DSJ, Kleber, Wes Matthews and one/maybe two 1st round picks for Gordon and whatever bloated contract the Magic want to swap for Wes... How would everyone here feel about that?

I personally would be scared S-less that Kleber turns into a better player than Gordon all by himself. But, I think if I'm the Mavs and ORL makes him part of the deal or they call it off, then I have to include him for a player like Gordon (mainly because of how he'd pair with Luka). I'd hate losing the 1st round picks, but if you have Doncic & Gordon, then I think hitting the FA market hard makes sense. I can't count how many lobs Doncic has thrown DeAndre Jordan that he hasn't either gone up & got or let fumble through his hands. With Gordon, if he doesn't come down with it than nobody was going to. I don't think you could ask for a better lob partner for Luka. He's pretty much 6-10 DSJ.

MacMahon talked about Gordon playing a Shawn Marion-like role (while he was in PHX) if he came to the Mavs. That's an appealing idea as well. Run the floor, catch lobs, board & hit catch & shoot 3s.

The other side of this is Isaac. Imo, Isaac can be Tyson Chandler to Luka's Dirk. Really would like to see Isaac here, but I don't think the Mavs are looking that far ahead.



Would feel terrible.

Maxi is an important piece to the Mavs for a number of reasons.

1. One is strategic one, as it leaves the Mavs completely naked on the "center" position after DJ finishes this season and his contract ends, which means Mavs are in a tight position, keeping Kleber leaves them less exposed.

2. Second is the energy Maxi brings to the team

3. Third is the development he is showing and as a big man who can be dangerous from 3 pt that is an extra benefit!

So no I would definitely not do it

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