Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[Rn5ho]

****, I forgot about the rookie AS game. Even more pointless activity. I hope they claim injury and get him out of there, even if it means paying fine. It's not about the actual game. It's about everything going into it. You have to actually go there, stay at the hotel, be available for media, fans... If I have to travel to another country just for a simple business related meeting, I am exhausted when I get home.

This is a really really poor take on the matter.. playing in AS is pretty much one of the biggest honors players receive lol and knowing Luka, he'd probably even risk/play through injury just to show up there. He's too much of swagger to miss such opportunity. You really seem to have a wrong idea about him..

Tell that to Butler and his DNP-CD this year.

We're talking about Luka though, not Butler.

[DJ_3_Ball]

I've been thinking the Luka's playing at an all star level talk was premature a few weeks ago, but recently he's taken it up another notch even. Then, I started thinking about who is a shoe-in for the Western All Stars.

1) LeBron James
2) Steph Curry (he currently doesn't really deserve missing so much time, but the fans will vote him in regardless)
3) Kevin Durant
4) Anthony Davis
5) James Harden (I wouldn't vote for him because his team is bad, and he's a volume shooter. But, 32.3 ppg is 32.3 ppg)
6) Russell Westbrook (he's averaging a triple double again, even though he's missed some time)
7) Paul George (took his game to another level while Russ was out)
8) Dame Lillard (26.9 ppg on efficient shooting #s and he's top 20-ish in assists)

Those are the only players I would call "locks". But, there are several more strong candidates

9) Nikola Jokic (best player on a Denver team that figures to be top 3 in the West come All Star weekend. Plus, he deserved it last year, but wasn't honored. This year he's averaging more assists, a career high 7.3 apg (from your center! Currently 9th in the NBA in assists, and his assists have risen every year he's been in the league. SCARY... I hope Luka speaks Serbian lol) 17.7 ppg 9.8 rpg 7.3 apg should get you an All Star nod
10) DeMar DeRozan 23.3 ppg career high 6.2 apg career high 5.7 rpg, plus the good guy done dirty by Toronto narrative. I feel like coaches will respect how he's handled the trade like a professional and name him an All Star.
11)...

Now this is where it starts to open up...

You could say Klay Thompson, but he's not clearly better than anyone else I'll mention. Plus he's taking more shots (a career high 18.7 FGA) which makes his 21.0 ppg a bit less impressive. The reb & asst #s are lacking as well. The main feather in his cap is he's an integral part of the reigning NBA champs, who will likely have the best record in the West come the All Star break.

Then there's Karl-Anthony Towns, 20.9 ppg and 11.6 rpg isn't anything to sneeze at, and his shooting #s are efficient.

Mike Conley, could be a sentimental favorite having never been named an All Star before and averaging right at career bests in points and assists. If Memphis is a top 8 team near the All Star break, he'll also have the "he was what was missing" factor working in his favor with Memphis being so bad last year without him.

There are a few other candidates, but I don't think anyone else has the edge over Luka's notoriety that he brings to the table. You would have to consider Tobias Harris and his 21.5 ppg 8.5 rpg for a Clippers team that's been near the top of the West all year, so far. Donovan Mitchell's come on in the last month or so, but still not playing like an All Star imo. Although, he might get the "probably should of made last year's team" nod. I don't see Draymond Green getting selected again with him missing 40% of his team's games so far. Maybe if he has a great January, but I think unlikely. Truthfully, De'Aaron Fox probably deserves it, but I doubt they'll give it to him given his innocuous rookie season last year. Buddy Hield, though, he may deserve some consideration as well. CJ McCollum... meh...

So, really you have Luka at the top of the group just outside the top 12-13 players in the West, and that means there will likely be someone named as an injury replacement. If Luka keeps up this pace, I think there's a very real chance he's an All Star this year. If he were in the East, I'd already have him in that 10-12 range for their All Stars (even though, I know they do a team captains thing now... but still pick the players by conference. Does that make any sense? Lol)

Leggo Luka!!

[Archx]

I am almost 100% that he would be an all star in the eastern conference. But West is insanely stacked. Keep in mind that this is still a popularity contest. So fans can vote in someone who really don't deserve it aka Klay T. or Green. But Mavs are popular in China, Luka is popular in the EU... So maybe he'll get enough votes, but realistically i am not expecting him to play in the main all star game. Also depends how he plays up to that point as well. If he can get this elusive triple double, maybe that will boost his rank even more.

But damn he went from "NBA bust" before the draft to a potential all star in Western conference in just 3 months or so..? The entire Hawks FO should be fired lol...

[arkuo]

Luka at PG seems like a good idea. He started at PG during the Pelicans' game didnt he?

DSJ just needs to play the Jason Terry role at SG. Same as 2011. Ideally that's what I think is supposed to happen. Ideally.

But I think Rick Carlisle is building the team like his Celtics team of 1985 where Bird is Luka at SF. Dennis Smith needs to play like Dennis Johnson. I mean it could work, but that is a TALL order for two teenagers. We'll see in another season or two.

[Archx]

Luka at PG seems like a good idea. He started at PG during the Pelicans' game didnt he?

He played couple of games as an actual PG recently. Even if Brunson was in the starting lineup. That's why his assist numbers went way up.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Luka at PG seems like a good idea. He started at PG during the Pelicans' game didnt he?

DSJ just needs to play the Jason Terry role at SG. Same as 2011. Ideally that's what I think is supposed to happen. Ideally.

But I think Rick Carlisle is building the team like his Celtics team of 1985 where Bird is Luka at SF. Dennis Smith needs to play like Dennis Johnson. I mean it could work, but that is a TALL order for two teenagers. We'll see in another season or two.

We're in an age of position-less basketball. I think his assists have gone up with DSJ out of the lineup. Outside of Barea, and to a lesser extent Harris & Brunson, no one else on the Mavs is a reliable ballhandler/playmaker. It really doesn't matter, I don't think, if his "label" is PG or SF or PF or C for that matter, as long as the offense is running through him.

I do like your comparison to Dennis Johnson. Seems like DSJ has a high defensive ceiling, given the way he's played early this season---especially that critical block on Tobias Harris. I don't like trying to model a team in the 2020s after a team from 1986. Basketball is just too different now.

Ideally, DSJ could be Jason Terry to Luka's Dirk, but that was a Stockton-Malone like PnR combo, and Terry was a lights out shooter, which made that work. I don't think Luka can finish at the rim vs Bigs quite like Dirk could and DSJ certainly is not the type of shooter Terry was... maybe they could figure out there own "new-style" play off each other 2 man game, but I don't know. I see DSJ more in the combo-guard, instant offense type... an Eric Bledsoe type, which much better defense. As DSJ's ceiling at least.

[deb]

Don't think Eric Bledsoe is "instant offense", and he is certainly a great defender, if DSJ ever becomes as good a defender as Bledsoe, we've got a winner, even if his offense doesn't improve...

[Dirk]

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

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Leggo Luka!!

Welcome to the forum.

[wolfram]

Holiday really tried to shut him down, but just couldn't. Luka has so many ways to get free it's ridiculous. I mean if you put him in iso he will have problems against some defenders, but basketball is a team sport

[DJ_3_Ball]

Holiday really tried to shut him down, but just couldn't. Luka has so many ways to get free it's ridiculous. I mean if you put him in iso he will have problems against some defenders, but basketball is a team sport

Holiday did an admirable job, but Luka's handles are just next level. The very first time I saw his Youtube highlights, I was just floored at how good his handles were. Not only that but he uses his body exceptionally well to put himself in prime positions vs defenders. For example, he loves to get in front of a defender, then wait, put the defender on his hip, wait for the defender to slow down (as he has to being behind Luka as not to foul) and then Luka accelerates to the basket for a floater or attack the rim. Very deceptive and clever and not enough players do that, nowadays.

[Teffer10]

Holiday really tried to shut him down, but just couldn't. Luka has so many ways to get free it's ridiculous. I mean if you put him in iso he will have problems against some defenders, but basketball is a team sport

Holiday did an admirable job, but Luka's handles are just next level. The very first time I saw his Youtube highlights, I was just floored at how good his handles were. Not only that but he uses his body exceptionally well to put himself in prime positions vs defenders. For example, he loves to get in front of a defender, then wait, put the defender on his hip, wait for the defender to slow down (as he has to being behind Luka as not to foul) and then Luka accelerates to the basket for a floater or attack the rim. Very deceptive and clever and not enough players do that, nowadays.

Defense is all about balance and maintaining a center of gravity at the waistline and remaining as squared up as possible as much as possible. Luka is a master at getting defenders off balance and then attacking...it just comes natural for him and he probably doesn't even realize it. It's an art that is absolutely fun to watch.

It will be amazing if he can ever teach Dennis to do the same because Dennis could become virtually unguardable one-on-one with that ridiculous athleticism.

[thr3ep01nte4]

Holiday really tried to shut him down, but just couldn't. Luka has so many ways to get free it's ridiculous. I mean if you put him in iso he will have problems against some defenders, but basketball is a team sport

Holiday lacks size. You can;t guard Luka with someone that's under 6-7. Similar things happened to Beverley and Bradley. The ideal defender for Luka should someone who's tall and long, but not super quick. Brandon Ingram is the guy to bother him.

[Dirk]

His height advantage.

Coupled with his vision and feel for the game.

It's just hilariously unfair at times.

He sees the whole floor where the smaller defender is right there in the 'proper' defensive stance.

He makes the passes from all angles. He jumps and makes what feel like cross court passes with such precision.

And the things you mention about playing at his own pace and knowing he can shield the defender with his body, always brings the likes of Steve Nash, James Harden to mind...

There are definitely things that are innate/instinctive. He has some hesitation moves that you just can't really see how that was a result of 'training', but it's rather out of your own genius and innate ability.

You may have a guy that is extremely athletic, but you know the moves he'll make. You may be beaten by his speed and agility, but you won't be beaten by his brains. Then you have this guy... who knows what you will do and how you will react to his every flinch. Then he'll use that against you. Every play is played out in his mind already and for every situation he usually has two or three different solutions.

When he had tons of turnovers, many of them were easily fixable it felt, because he was trying to do too much, in many cases he just had to recycle the ball and then try again. But you could see right there in many of those turnovers just how elaborate his mind his. There is no limit for what he thinks he can do.

Anyway, I will stop now. Long story short --- I actually just wanted to underline how much I love those long passes where at times he even jumps. Very very few players make, I actually can only think of one or two that come to my mind as players that I've seen them do. And the most interesting thing is that it's a big no, no to jump in the air... but in his case, it's been remarkably reliable and Barnes among others has been cashing in on the corner 3s that way.

[J_T]

I thought this was his best passing game so far. He looks like a seasoned playmaker out there. Some of the passes look surreal and I only realized how they were done after I saw replays from different angle. Before that it looked to me like the passes didn't obey laws of physics. He seems to be passing using unusual and unconventional release points so it gets time to get used to it.

[wolfram]

Holiday really tried to shut him down, but just couldn't. Luka has so many ways to get free it's ridiculous. I mean if you put him in iso he will have problems against some defenders, but basketball is a team sport

Holiday lacks size. You can;t guard Luka with someone that's under 6-7. Similar things happened to Beverley and Bradley. The ideal defender for Luka should someone who's tall and long, but not super quick. Brandon Ingram is the guy to bother him.

I agree. It will not be long before he finds ways to play better against the likes of Ingram. Probably his worst games were against the Lakers and the Suns...

[burek3]

And the most interesting thing is that it's a big no, no to jump in the air... but in his case, it's been remarkably reliable and Barnes among others has been cashing in on the corner 3s that way.

The thing is, he's deliberately jumping to improve passing look. Take example of DSJ, he jumps because he slams into a dead end and he buys himself a panic second to do something.

[burek3]

Holiday really tried to shut him down, but just couldn't. Luka has so many ways to get free it's ridiculous. I mean if you put him in iso he will have problems against some defenders, but basketball is a team sport

Holiday lacks size. You can;t guard Luka with someone that's under 6-7. Similar things happened to Beverley and Bradley. The ideal defender for Luka should someone who's tall and long, but not super quick. Brandon Ingram is the guy to bother him.

I agree. It will not be long before he finds ways to play better against the likes of Ingram. Probably his worst games were against the Lakers and the Suns...

He will learn how to deal with long defender eventually... Bullying to the post is one of the solutions with a nasty fadeaway or up and under.

[thr3ep01nte4]

Holiday lacks size. You can;t guard Luka with someone that's under 6-7. Similar things happened to Beverley and Bradley. The ideal defender for Luka should someone who's tall and long, but not super quick. Brandon Ingram is the guy to bother him.

I agree. It will not be long before he finds ways to play better against the likes of Ingram. Probably his worst games were against the Lakers and the Suns...

He will learn how to deal with long defender eventually... Bullying to the post is one of the solutions with a nasty fadeaway or up and under.

Yeah, a more refined post game can be very helpful. His biggest weakness is when the long and tall defender is giving him some cushion to shoot but can close onto him and contest pretty quick. Those guys are not very fast, so the little fakes Luka does can't make them out of position. It's like you can't really pump fake Marc Gasol that often in the post b/c he's too slow to react... Luka needs to develop a better iso-game in the mid-post / FT-line area. Right now, his only money move is step-back 3, which is a highly volatile shot. He obviously needs more than that. An example is Paul Pierce.

[wolfram]

I agree. It will not be long before he finds ways to play better against the likes of Ingram. Probably his worst games were against the Lakers and the Suns...

He will learn how to deal with long defender eventually... Bullying to the post is one of the solutions with a nasty fadeaway or up and under.

Yeah, a more refined post game can be very helpful. His biggest weakness is when the long and tall defender is giving him some cushion to shoot but can close onto him and contest pretty quick. Those guys are not very fast, so the little fakes Luka does can't make them out of position. It's like you can't really pump fake Marc Gasol that often in the post b/c he's too slow to react... Luka needs to develop a better iso-game in the mid-post / FT-line area. Right now, his only money move is step-back 3, which is a highly volatile shot. He obviously needs more than that. An example is Paul Pierce.

I remember a fadeaway jumpshot (like Dirk) he made against the Lakers. It was perfect. Defender had no chance. Don't know why I remember this... Must be the childish look at the bench after he made it

[thr3ep01nte4]

Yeah, a more refined post game can be very helpful. His biggest weakness is when the long and tall defender is giving him some cushion to shoot but can close onto him and contest pretty quick. Those guys are not very fast, so the little fakes Luka does can't make them out of position. It's like you can't really pump fake Marc Gasol that often in the post b/c he's too slow to react... Luka needs to develop a better iso-game in the mid-post / FT-line area. Right now, his only money move is step-back 3, which is a highly volatile shot. He obviously needs more than that. An example is Paul Pierce.

I remember a fadeaway jumpshot (like Dirk) he made against the Lakers. It was perfect. Defender had no chance. Don't know why I remember this... Must be the childish look at the bench after he made it

It was against Lonzo Ball. Don't know whether he could do that against Ingram.