Trade Discussion 22/23

[Maverick41]

I can’t speak for everyone else but I don’t think Ayton sucks. He’s clearly a very physically gifted center. Also he would without a doubt improve the rebounding. I’m just not convinced he’s smart enough. I’ve seen him make some really bad decisions on defense. And when it boils down to it, the points are nice, and the rebounding is nice, but it’s going to all come down to his defense. His defense is questionable. Turner, Poeltl, or one of the Knicks centers would be better fits for what the Mavs need (if they resign Kyrie). If they don’t resign Kyrie I think Ayton becomes a better option. Personally I’d prefer to see if the Pacers are more interested in acquiring Ayton. Send the Mavs Turner and Kyrie and rejoin KD in the desert.

Imo Ayton's problem isn't IQ or defense, it's his motor and that he's soft. I actually like the guy and think he's very talented but it's definitely concerning at 35 mil per season.

I like Turner more but I think it's heavily dependent on what the rest of the roster is. If you can get a PF that fits well to help with rebounding, I like him a lot. I just don't think Turner can be a lone big out there or we can continue to expect to get bullied on the boards.

[Mr B]

I can’t speak for everyone else but I don’t think Ayton sucks. He’s clearly a very physically gifted center. Also he would without a doubt improve the rebounding. I’m just not convinced he’s smart enough. I’ve seen him make some really bad decisions on defense. And when it boils down to it, the points are nice, and the rebounding is nice, but it’s going to all come down to his defense. His defense is questionable. Turner, Poeltl, or one of the Knicks centers would be better fits for what the Mavs need (if they resign Kyrie). If they don’t resign Kyrie I think Ayton becomes a better option. Personally I’d prefer to see if the Pacers are more interested in acquiring Ayton. Send the Mavs Turner and Kyrie and rejoin KD in the desert.

Imo Ayton's problem isn't IQ or defense, it's his motor and that he's soft. I actually like the guy and think he's very talented but it's definitely concerning at 35 mil per season.

I like Turner more but I think it's heavily dependent on what the rest of the roster is. If you can get a PF that fits well to help with rebounding, I like him a lot. I just don't think Turner can be a lone big out there or we can continue to expect to get bullied on the boards.

I’m my scenario I would love for the Mave to be able to draft Hendricks (or BPA) and make the Kyrie trade that nets them Myles Turner.

[Maverick41]

I’m my scenario I would love for the Mave to be able to draft Hendricks (or BPA) and make the Kyrie trade that nets them Myles Turner.

That frontcourt works really well on paper. Jarace Walker could work also as I think he could be a good short roll release valve when Luka gets trapped because of his passing ability. I guess the problem is the timing since the draft is before FA.

Imo a guy to pay attention to if the intention is to SnT Kyrie is a guy like Cason Wallace. 6'4" defensive combo guard with comparisons to Jrue Holiday and Marcus Smart is exactly what we need around Luka. And he's from Kentucky where they seem to mass produce good NBA guards.

[arkuo]

If I were Dallas, I'd focus on teams who went all in this year and traded all their chips on the table but failed. Namely, that's Minny for Gobert and Cleveland for Donovan Mitchell. Those teams have zero cap space and zero picks left but still find it lacking to win anything. They will be the first to make changes.

Agreed. If the lottery gods are favorable and we move up to 4, the best, most realistic transaction among those two teams for us:

DAL ===> T. Hardaway Jr. / J. McGee / 4th Overall Pick / 6MM Cash
CLE ===> J. Allen / '24 2nd via GSW / '26 2nd via LAL

Call up NYK to remove the protections on the '24 1st to free up our '25 2nd to include in a trade. Then we can package our 3 2nds with Bertans and Bullock to BKN for Dodo / Patty Mills / D. Sharpe. Bertans can be bought out and Bullock only has half his contract guaranteed if he's waived before the league year starts. This move lets them shed over 15MM in payroll this year in order to retain Cam Johnson without having to dip into the luxury tax. They pick up 3 2nds in the process and move off of three assets that will only continue to depreciate if left on their roster.

Resign Kyrie / Sign M. Thybulle for a deal slightly above the TPMLE but below the full MLE (i.e. 3yrs 25MM) / Fill out the roster with logical Vet Mins. This payroll keeps us juuuust below the luxury tax (and well below the apron) provided we can convince Kyrie to take a couple million discount from his 47MM max:

PG: L. Doncic (35) / P. Mills
SG: K. Irving (35) / J. Hardy (25) / T. Pinson
SF: J. Green (30) / M. Thybulle (25) / A. Lawson
PF: D. Finney-Smith (35) / M. Kleber (25)
C: J. Allen (30) / D. Powell / D. Sharpe

Agreed. Allen is the type of defensive center this unit needs. Even if Kyrie retires a Mav, he'll still be young enough to play on with Luka.

Also with Draymond becoming a FA and I dont think Golden State would want to tie big money with his age, maybe they look to go younger. If you can convince GSW to get Wood for Draymond, then I'll give it a shot too.

[arkuo]

I can’t speak for everyone else but I don’t think Ayton sucks. He’s clearly a very physically gifted center. Also he would without a doubt improve the rebounding. I’m just not convinced he’s smart enough. I’ve seen him make some really bad decisions on defense. And when it boils down to it, the points are nice, and the rebounding is nice, but it’s going to all come down to his defense. His defense is questionable. Turner, Poeltl, or one of the Knicks centers would be better fits for what the Mavs need (if they resign Kyrie). If they don’t resign Kyrie I think Ayton becomes a better option. Personally I’d prefer to see if the Pacers are more interested in acquiring Ayton. Send the Mavs Turner and Kyrie and rejoin KD in the desert.

Imo Ayton's problem isn't IQ or defense, it's his motor and that he's soft. I actually like the guy and think he's very talented but it's definitely concerning at 35 mil per season.

I like Turner more but I think it's heavily dependent on what the rest of the roster is. If you can get a PF that fits well to help with rebounding, I like him a lot. I just don't think Turner can be a lone big out there or we can continue to expect to get bullied on the boards.

You can only get Ayton if Kyrie decides to walk because he will go to PHX but he wont live in Indiana, that's for sure. So Ayton is just a case of rather get something than nothing.

[Maverick41]

You can only get Ayton if Kyrie decides to walk because he will go to PHX but he wont live in Indiana, that's for sure. So Ayton is just a case of rather get something than nothing.

To be clear, that scenario is a 3 way trade. Kyrie to PHX, Ayton to IND, Turner to DAL. I think we all know Kyrie ain't signing with IND.

[daoneandonly]

You can only get Ayton if Kyrie decides to walk because he will go to PHX but he wont live in Indiana, that's for sure. So Ayton is just a case of rather get something than nothing.

To be clear, that scenario is a 3 way trade. Kyrie to PHX, Ayton to IND, Turner to DAL. I think we all know Kyrie ain't signing with IND.

Don't think it's realistic, but I would do it. Also hope Dallas could squeeze a little more out. But Suns would also need to trade more to match salaries, don't want anything to do with Shamet

[ozwizard8]

Agreed. If the lottery gods are favorable and we move up to 4, the best, most realistic transaction among those two teams for us:

DAL ===> T. Hardaway Jr. / J. McGee / 4th Overall Pick / 6MM Cash
CLE ===> J. Allen / '24 2nd via GSW / '26 2nd via LAL

I like Jafro but I don't think he's worth the #4 pick. For reference, let's compare the guy everyone is down on (Ayton) vs Jafro for this playoffs:

J. Allen - 9 pts, 7 rebs, 1 block, 38 mpg
Ayton - 13 pts, 10 rebs, 1 block, 32 mpg

I think if we get a pick that high and want to speed up the win-now process, we got to find a way to turn it into 2 starting level players rather then 1.

I can’t speak for everyone else but I don’t think Ayton sucks. He’s clearly a very physically gifted center. Also he would without a doubt improve the rebounding. I’m just not convinced he’s smart enough. I’ve seen him make some really bad decisions on defense. And when it boils down to it, the points are nice, and the rebounding is nice, but it’s going to all come down to his defense. His defense is questionable. Turner, Poeltl, or one of the Knicks centers would be better fits for what the Mavs need (if they resign Kyrie). If they don’t resign Kyrie I think Ayton becomes a better option. Personally I’d prefer to see if the Pacers are more interested in acquiring Ayton. Send the Mavs Turner and Kyrie and rejoin KD in the desert.

Ayton did not look impactful in Mavs series, nor against Kawhi-Clippers and not against Denver. He might even be a little overpaid.
Even if its the case, I would trade Kyrie for him in a heart beat.

Kyrie 4 year max would be detrimental for this team. Even Celtics-Nets couldn't cope with Kyrie while he was on his prime. Now after age 32, its all downhill road for small guards. Being a lunatic is also another big red flag to avoid Kyrie 4-year deal.

Turner is also fine. But all those trades are not addressing the need of 2 solid starters at SF-PF positions. Wing defenders that offers help defense and rebounding. Basically finding Aaron Gordon, KPJ, DFS J.Green etc. Without solid wing men rotation, centers would not be enough.

[daoneandonly]

I feel like KD may not want to play with Kyrie again though, and their offense is fine with KD and Book. Maybe Miami is an Irving option?

3 way then would be
Miami gets Irving
Paces get Herro
Mavs get Turner, Caleb Martin

Carlisle loves rolling out multiple guards who can handle the ball, so would probably welcome Tyler.

[SOUNDCHASER]

Ayton is way overpaid for what he brings to the table. J Allen is 6'9 and okay but he is still only 6'9" his fit against teams with real centers will see us losing games more often than not when that matchup is not going to work. For what he makes I would rather add NAZ Reid. He is younger can hit a 3 and is just as big and able to defend big centers with

Hendricks at 10 is a no brainer he is a great player waiting to happen and could go as high as 4th in the draft. Gregory Jackson is another option and Lively and Edey as well and with the right moves the Mavs could draft all 3 if they drop down to get 2 players instead of 1 with the 10th pick and then acquire a 2nd rounder to use on Edey. That is what I would lok at doing if they lose out on Hendricks at 10.

NAZ Reid is who I would go after to snag a veteran center with 3 point skills. Wood is also an option if nobody offers him a salary and if that happens the Mavs would probably look at him as a better option because he has a better 3 pointer but NAZ is probably looking to get paid around $10 MM. Not sure but maybe there is a way to keep Wood and sign NAZ.

Watch on YouTube

;t=532s

[Mr B]

You can only get Ayton if Kyrie decides to walk because he will go to PHX but he wont live in Indiana, that's for sure. So Ayton is just a case of rather get something than nothing.

To be clear, that scenario is a 3 way trade. Kyrie to PHX, Ayton to IND, Turner to DAL. I think we all know Kyrie ain't signing with IND.

Don't think it's realistic, but I would do it. Also hope Dallas could squeeze a little more out. But Suns would also need to trade more to match salaries, don't want anything to do with Shamet

Yea the reason I mentioned this 3-way trade is because the Suns want Kyrie to play with Booker and KD. Also Indy signed Ayton to an offer sheet so they clearly have an interest in him. Ayton and Turner are not a great fit together and Turner would be a great fit in Dallas.

Because of Kyrie’s salary the Suns would definitely have to add more to the trade. It sure who else they have or what picks they have left to include in the deal.

[Mr B]

I like Jafro but I don't think he's worth the #4 pick. For reference, let's compare the guy everyone is down on (Ayton) vs Jafro for this playoffs:

J. Allen - 9 pts, 7 rebs, 1 block, 38 mpg
Ayton - 13 pts, 10 rebs, 1 block, 32 mpg

I think if we get a pick that high and want to speed up the win-now process, we got to find a way to turn it into 2 starting level players rather then 1.

I can’t speak for everyone else but I don’t think Ayton sucks. He’s clearly a very physically gifted center. Also he would without a doubt improve the rebounding. I’m just not convinced he’s smart enough. I’ve seen him make some really bad decisions on defense. And when it boils down to it, the points are nice, and the rebounding is nice, but it’s going to all come down to his defense. His defense is questionable. Turner, Poeltl, or one of the Knicks centers would be better fits for what the Mavs need (if they resign Kyrie). If they don’t resign Kyrie I think Ayton becomes a better option. Personally I’d prefer to see if the Pacers are more interested in acquiring Ayton. Send the Mavs Turner and Kyrie and rejoin KD in the desert.

Ayton did not look impactful in Mavs series, nor against Kawhi-Clippers and not against Denver. He might even be a little overpaid.
Even if its the case, I would trade Kyrie for him in a heart beat.

Kyrie 4 year max would be detrimental for this team. Even Celtics-Nets couldn't cope with Kyrie while he was on his prime. Now after age 32, its all downhill road for small guards. Being a lunatic is also another big red flag to avoid Kyrie 4-year deal.

Turner is also fine. But all those trades are not addressing the need of 2 solid starters at SF-PF positions. Wing defenders that offers help defense and rebounding. Basically finding Aaron Gordon, KPJ, DFS J.Green etc. Without solid wing men rotation, centers would not be enough.

In my scenario the Mavs would keep their #10 pick and use it on a defensive wing (preferably Taylor Hendricks, Anthony Black, or Jarace Walker).

The 3-trade would also require the Suns to include more to match salaries. Not sure who they have who fits that bill that they could include. Or they could sign Jae Crowder who looks to be out in Milwaukee.

[41Dirk41]

Ayton trade value is negative right now, he is a no factor in PO... I don't know why someone should trade assets for him. Just like KP last year.

[ozwizard8]

Ayton trade value is negative right now, he is a no factor in PO... I don't know why someone should trade assets for him. Just like KP last year.

4-year max contracted Kyrie might be borderline negative as well.
Kyrie at this age, his poor performance in last 6 years and 3 teams, being a mental case. 4-year max would be so risky.

Ayton is still young, 7-ft tall, mobile for his position. He can get better.
Tyson Chandler did not look great in his early years. Ayton may not become him but his next 4 years more promising than Kyrie's. Fits better with Doncic.

[Maverick41]

Continuing to have fun with the trade machine. Once the Knicks inevitably lose, I can see them moving on from Randle and trying to get a bigger name. What do you guys think of the following:

DAL Receives: Mitchell Robinson + Mavs 24 FRP (from Knicks)
NY Receives: KAT + K. Anderson
MIN Receives: Randle + THJ + #10 + 2 future FRPs (I guess MIN picks which)

DAL gets a starting level C. They lose their top 10 pick this season but regain next season's and will finally be done owing the Knicks. They then can use future picks to upgrade further if needed.

NY blows up their frontcourt and most importantly moves on from the Randle experience. They get an elite floor spacing star to make up for their lack of shooting as well as a good all around guy that can playmake in Slo-mo. They still have assets to trade for another guy after (ex. OG, Siakam, Lavine, etc.)

MIN moves on from the Gobert and KAT duo experience. They get an all star caliber player that fits better, a good shooter that they lack, a top 10 pick + 2 future FRPs to continue to build around Ant.

[41Dirk41]

Ayton trade value is negative right now, he is a no factor in PO... I don't know why someone should trade assets for him. Just like KP last year.

4-year max contracted Kyrie might be borderline negative as well.
Kyrie at this age, his poor performance in last 6 years and 3 teams, being a mental case. 4-year max would be so risky.

Ayton is still young, 7-ft tall, mobile for his position. He can get better.
Tyson Chandler did not look great in his early years. Ayton may not become him but his next 4 years more promising than Kyrie's. Fits better with Doncic.

This comment is the result of personal likes and dislikes.

Anyway Ayton and TC are a completely different kind players. You can't compare them.

Irving is a gamble because his off court problems but he is an elite basketball player, Ayton is a bigger gamble because his on court problems.
It's a whole different situation.

Suns dumped Ayton for 2 straight years and nobody wanted give up assets for him.
Irving found a team whenever he wanted.

Bertans+THJ+ protect FRP are enough for take the risk.

But i'd like to see the Suns pay 70M in contracts for him and CP3 the next 2 years too so i hope they will remain with them

[41Dirk41]

Only Embiid and Jokic(maybe KAT) are efficient offensive Cs in the PO, if you haven't one of those 2 then it's better having a defender/rebounder cheap one like Looney/Claxton than a mediocre offensive C who can't make difference.

[Mr B]

Ayton trade value is negative right now, he is a no factor in PO... I don't know why someone should trade assets for him. Just like KP last year.

Saw a funny article today that mentioned a possible return to Dallas for KP. KP has been talking about how the problems he had in Dallas were his fault.

[Maverick41]

Suns dumped Ayton for 2 straight years and nobody wanted give up assets for him.

I'm confused, when did this happen? PHX has never wanted to dump Ayton. Heck, Ayton tried to leave to IND last offseason and PHX matched it to bring him back.

I do agree that his value is at an all time low but I highly doubt PHX is just gonna give him away, especially when they have a short title window with KD.

[Maverick41]

Saw a funny article today that mentioned a possible return to Dallas for KP. KP has been talking about how the problems he had in Dallas were his fault.

It's honestly very mature of KP to take some responsibility for the duo not working. Still think a healthy KP with Luka could have been special. Unfortunate that we only got to really see it for such short stints. Bubble KP was amazing and for some reason tends to be forgotten in NBA circles and even on this board.