Mavericks 2017 Draft #9

[daoneandonly]

Obviously I would like for DSJ to be our pick, but I'm not going to be upset at all if we end up with Frank.. I think he has the ability to be Rondo (or Rubio... probably a better comparison) with a jump shot, which is as much as you can ask for in a PG.

From the reports I heard, he's more of a 2 than a PG. I for one am tired of the type, at least he has height versus the Ellis, Curry, Terry, Gibsons's we've seen in year's past, but I'd much rather have a true legit PG, and I just don't think Frank is that.

The league is transitioning into one where the 2s play PG (Westbrook/Harden type).

Someone who can defend like he does, find the open man, and can hit the 3 at an acceptable rate is too good to pass up unless Smith or Isaac are still on the board IMO.

yes, but at 18, I don't see Harden or Westbrook averaging 5 points and 1.4 assists against subpar opponents, that's Frank's statline. I think Cuban knows he goofed on the Giannis thing and thinks this is his way of making up for it. The problem is, Nkinnia is far more likely to bust than come anywhere near Giannis, and that's just going to set us back even more.

[Devassa]

From the reports I heard, he's more of a 2 than a PG. I for one am tired of the type, at least he has height versus the Ellis, Curry, Terry, Gibsons's we've seen in year's past, but I'd much rather have a true legit PG, and I just don't think Frank is that.

The league is transitioning into one where the 2s play PG (Westbrook/Harden type).

Someone who can defend like he does, find the open man, and can hit the 3 at an acceptable rate is too good to pass up unless Smith or Isaac are still on the board IMO.

yes, but at 18, I don't see Harden or Westbrook averaging 5 points and 1.4 assists against subpar opponents, that's Frank's statline. I think Cuban knows he goofed on the Giannis thing and thinks this is his way of making up for it. The problem is, Nkinnia is far more likely to bust than come anywhere near Giannis, and that's just going to set us back even more.

Euro ball is played much differently than NBA. Don't read too much into stats, for better comparisons go check out what guys like Rubio, Giannis, and Porzingis averaged overseas. It's why you'll see MVPs in those leagues averaging 14/3/3 or something like that.

[Mr B]

I would absolutely love if DSJ is there at 9. I'm not sure the Mavs would take him over Ntilikina though. I think Donnie is much higher on Frank than he is on DSJ.

If they do draft DSJ though there is another thing they will have to consider. They will need to trade Curry. Having DSJ and Curry on the floor at the same time would give the Mavs a horrible defensive backcourt. Wes would actually be a better fit next to DSJ than Curry. Or they will need to find a younger, big 3/D SG.

If they draft Ntilikina though, Curry would be a better fit.

[daoneandonly]

I would absolutely love if DSJ is there at 9. I'm not sure the Mavs would take him over Ntilikina though. I think Donnie is much higher on Frank than he is on DSJ.

If they do draft DSJ though there is another thing they will have to consider. They will need to trade Curry. Having DSJ and Curry on the floor at the same time would give the Mavs a horrible defensive backcourt. Wes would actually be a better fit next to DSJ than Curry. Or they will need to find a younger, big 3/D SG.

If they draft Ntilikina though, Curry would be a better fit.

I think most are for trading Curry if we can get a first rounder this year for him, it would be a late one, but still worth it. Regardless of who we draft, Wes needs to go. he's way overpaid and with a rookie PG, you need a backcourt mate that can help bring the ball up and facilitate, Wes is utterly useless in both those areas, though he's paid like someone who can.

[dirkforpres]

The league is transitioning into one where the 2s play PG (Westbrook/Harden type).

Someone who can defend like he does, find the open man, and can hit the 3 at an acceptable rate is too good to pass up unless Smith or Isaac are still on the board IMO.

yes, but at 18, I don't see Harden or Westbrook averaging 5 points and 1.4 assists against subpar opponents, that's Frank's statline. I think Cuban knows he goofed on the Giannis thing and thinks this is his way of making up for it. The problem is, Nkinnia is far more likely to bust than come anywhere near Giannis, and that's just going to set us back even more.

Euro ball is played much differently than NBA. Don't read too much into stats, for better comparisons go check out what guys like Rubio, Giannis, and Porzingis averaged overseas. It's why you'll see MVPs in those leagues averaging 14/3/3 or something like that.

Pretty much exactly this. I have him ranked just slightly behind DSJ but I could easily be convinced that he is the more attractive option for our team and for Carlisles system. My BPA rankings are

Fultz
Ball
Fox
Jackson
Isaac
Tatum
Smith
Ntilikina
Monk
Markkanen
Mitchell
Collins

[daoneandonly]

yes, but at 18, I don't see Harden or Westbrook averaging 5 points and 1.4 assists against subpar opponents, that's Frank's statline. I think Cuban knows he goofed on the Giannis thing and thinks this is his way of making up for it. The problem is, Nkinnia is far more likely to bust than come anywhere near Giannis, and that's just going to set us back even more.

Euro ball is played much differently than NBA. Don't read too much into stats, for better comparisons go check out what guys like Rubio, Giannis, and Porzingis averaged overseas. It's why you'll see MVPs in those leagues averaging 14/3/3 or something like that.

Pretty much exactly this. I have him ranked just slightly behind DSJ but I could easily be convinced that he is the more attractive option for our team and for Carlisles system. My BPA rankings are

Fultz
Ball
Fox
Jackson
Isaac
Tatum
Smith
Ntilikina
Monk
Markkanen
Mitchell
Collins

In my opinion, there's a clear top 7 in this draft:

Fultz
Ball
Fox
Jackson
Isaac
Smith
Tatum

Then there are guys who could be nice, but more so useful role players than anyone to build around: Justin Jackson, Zach Collins, etc. Then you have 3 almost certain busts IMO, Nkinnia, Markkanan, and Monk. Harry Giles is a wildcard who could fall into any of the 3 categories mentioned above depending on his health.

[Suka Bongcic]

I would absolutely love if DSJ is there at 9. I'm not sure the Mavs would take him over Ntilikina though. I think Donnie is much higher on Frank than he is on DSJ.

If they do draft DSJ though there is another thing they will have to consider. They will need to trade Curry. Having DSJ and Curry on the floor at the same time would give the Mavs a horrible defensive backcourt. Wes would actually be a better fit next to DSJ than Curry. Or they will need to find a younger, big 3/D SG.

If they draft Ntilikina though, Curry would be a better fit.

I don't think there's much of a chance that we'd have to make that decision. Smith is likely gone by 9. If smith IS available, I can't see a situation in which ntilikina would also be available. Anything can happen, but I highly doubt both guys are on the board when we pick. At this point I'm just hoping one of them are. I'd be happy with either

[Mr B]

I would absolutely love if DSJ is there at 9. I'm not sure the Mavs would take him over Ntilikina though. I think Donnie is much higher on Frank than he is on DSJ.

If they do draft DSJ though there is another thing they will have to consider. They will need to trade Curry. Having DSJ and Curry on the floor at the same time would give the Mavs a horrible defensive backcourt. Wes would actually be a better fit next to DSJ than Curry. Or they will need to find a younger, big 3/D SG.

If they draft Ntilikina though, Curry would be a better fit.

I don't think there's much of a chance that we'd have to make that decision. Smith is likely gone by 9. If smith IS available, I can't see a situation in which ntilikina would also be available. Anything can happen, but I highly doubt both guys are on the board when we pick. At this point I'm just hoping one of them are. I'd be happy with either

Yea more than likely 1 of them will be gone (possibly both). I said before and I'll say it again, I think they also still sign a PG in free agency even if they do draft a PG. It's starting to look more and more like Harris won't be on the team this year. And if they are able to draft a PG then depending on which one will tell us if Wes or Curry will still be on the team. One of them will be gone in my opinion (because of fit and not so much because of salary).

[Mr B]

I would absolutely love if DSJ is there at 9. I'm not sure the Mavs would take him over Ntilikina though. I think Donnie is much higher on Frank than he is on DSJ.

If they do draft DSJ though there is another thing they will have to consider. They will need to trade Curry. Having DSJ and Curry on the floor at the same time would give the Mavs a horrible defensive backcourt. Wes would actually be a better fit next to DSJ than Curry. Or they will need to find a younger, big 3/D SG.

If they draft Ntilikina though, Curry would be a better fit.

I don't think there's much of a chance that we'd have to make that decision. Smith is likely gone by 9. If smith IS available, I can't see a situation in which ntilikina would also be available. Anything can happen, but I highly doubt both guys are on the board when we pick. At this point I'm just hoping one of them are. I'd be happy with either

Yea more than likely 1 of them will be gone (possibly both). I said before and I'll say it again, I think they also still sign a PG in free agency even if they do draft a PG. It's starting to look more and more like Harris won't be on the team this year. And if they are able to draft a PG then depending on which one will tell us if Wes or Curry will still be on the team. One of them will be gone in my opinion (because of fit and not so much because of salary).

[dirkforpres]

Euro ball is played much differently than NBA. Don't read too much into stats, for better comparisons go check out what guys like Rubio, Giannis, and Porzingis averaged overseas. It's why you'll see MVPs in those leagues averaging 14/3/3 or something like that.

Pretty much exactly this. I have him ranked just slightly behind DSJ but I could easily be convinced that he is the more attractive option for our team and for Carlisles system. My BPA rankings are

Fultz
Ball
Fox
Jackson
Isaac
Tatum
Smith
Ntilikina
Monk
Markkanen
Mitchell
Collins

In my opinion, there's a clear top 7 in this draft:

Fultz
Ball
Fox
Jackson
Isaac
Smith
Tatum

Then there are guys who could be nice, but more so useful role players than anyone to build around: Justin Jackson, Zach Collins, etc. Then you have 3 almost certain busts IMO, Nkinnia, Markkanan, and Monk. Harry Giles is a wildcard who could fall into any of the 3 categories mentioned above depending on his health.

There's no such thing as a certain bust, especially amongst lottery picks.. And definitely if you have nothing to base that off of except gut feeling

[daoneandonly]

Pretty much exactly this. I have him ranked just slightly behind DSJ but I could easily be convinced that he is the more attractive option for our team and for Carlisles system. My BPA rankings are

Fultz
Ball
Fox
Jackson
Isaac
Tatum
Smith
Ntilikina
Monk
Markkanen
Mitchell
Collins

In my opinion, there's a clear top 7 in this draft:

Fultz
Ball
Fox
Jackson
Isaac
Smith
Tatum

Then there are guys who could be nice, but more so useful role players than anyone to build around: Justin Jackson, Zach Collins, etc. Then you have 3 almost certain busts IMO, Nkinnia, Markkanan, and Monk. Harry Giles is a wildcard who could fall into any of the 3 categories mentioned above depending on his health.

There's no such thing as a certain bust, especially amongst lottery picks.. And definitely if you have nothing to base that off of except gut feeling

True, but why I said IMO. Let's wait and see, I am fairly confident all 3 would be less than stellar players, I just hope we don't witness it first hand with any of them being on the Mavs. I don't want a Dante Exum, Andrea Bargani, or Jarryd Bayless on this team, to me, that's what Nkinna, Markkanan, and Monk are respectively.

[JamesConway]

Strasbourg is getting their butts kicked right now in a really bad way I'm afraid. Down 26 at halftime. A few things on Frank:

- opened the game with a layup in transition and an offensive board where he kicked out to the open shooter out of traffic (the guy missed though)

- bad TO after he brought the ball over halfcourt due to a stolen pass

- caught ballwatching on a defensive rebound ==> lead to a 2nd chance bucket for his man

- then he went to the bench for quite a long time

- Lacombe (their best player from what I can tell) got injured somewhen in the 2nd half

- the next few possessions after the injury Frank takes a jumper & clanks it, gets blocked in an unpleasant way after an eurostep-layup attempt, blows another layup at the rim really badly (ball hits the bottom side of the rim)

- gambled for a steal, his man gets the ball, beats him, forces Strasbourg's interior defense to collapse ==> open layup

- and then he picked up his third foul just 1-2 minutes before halftime

Yikes

[daoneandonly]

Strasbourg is getting their butts kicked right now in a really bad way I'm afraid. Down 26 at halftime. A few thins on Frank:

- opened the game with a layup in transition and an offensive board where he kicked out to the open shooter out of traffic (the guy missed though)

- bad TO after he brought the ball over halfcourt due to a stolen pass

- caught ballwatching on a defensive rebound ==> lead to a 2nd chance bucket for his man

- then he went to the bench for quite a long time

- Lacombe (their best player from what I can tell) got injured somewhen in the 2nd half

- the next few possessions after the injury Frank takes a jumper & clanks it, gets blocked in an unpleasant way after an eurostep-layup attempt, blows another layup at the rim really badly (ball hits the bottom side of the rim)

- gambled for a steal, his man gets the ball, beats him, forces Strasbourg's interior defense to collapse ==> open layup

- and then he picked up his third foul just 1-2 minutes before halftime

Yikes

Thanks for sharing and suffering through that mess to give us some details.

Sounds like what the future holds for him in the NBA in my opinion.

[JamesConway]

Thanks for sharing and suffering through that mess to give us some details.

Sounds like what the future holds for him in the NBA in my opinion.

You're welcome. Not much from him in the 3rd quarter, he came off the bench to start the 2nd half and didn't get back on the court until the 2 or 3-minute mark in the 3rd. Strasbourg had the lead down to 13 but Chalon is just too good. Up 16 to start the 4th. Frank not doing much, it's mainly this guy Slaughter right now making plays for Strasbourg. Seems like Lacombe is out for good.

He ran some sets to open up the 4th with mixed results. Got his bigs a few midrange jumpers and had a smart pass inside to a wing that had a missmatch. But also a bad TO on a PnR.

Strasbourg now down 16 in the 4th with 6 minutes to play. And Frank just went back to the bench. I guess that's it for me and french basketball for today

[JamesConway]

Re Frank in general: I think I somewhat got my opinion on him. He can look super-crappy when he's forced to do too much and he's clearly never going to be a 23ppg guard who can bail you out on any possession bc of his shot creation ability -- but you're getting a 6'5 backcourt swiss army knife with him who can run a PnR properly, shoots the ball well, defends and can distribute. Cuban has stated for a while now that he wants a 'pass first'-PG. Frank would be just that as well as a two-way player who should be helpful going forward as a player that can make a ton of odd lineups work with his impact/skillset on both ends.

And I think he'd be a great fit here. Carlisle loves to roll with his PnR-heavy two PG-lineups and he's perfectly suited for that. I think somewhat like Deron was just w/o the late game-iso scoring but with better tools size-wise and defensively.

I don't see him ever filling the Superstar-void that we kinda still have to take care of one day, but I guess that's something we'll delay further into the future.

[Lord Cuban]

13/06/2017 Mock Drafts (Mavericks):

DraftExpress: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, NC State | Freshman
ESPN: Frank Ntilikina, PG, France | 18
Bleacher Report: Lauri Markkanen, PF, Arizona | Freshman
NBADraft.Net: Frank Ntilikina, PG, France | 18
CBS Sports: Frank Ntilikina, PG, France | 18
SB Nation: Lauri Markkanen, PF, Arizona | Freshman
Mynbadraft: Frank Ntilikina, PG, France | 18
Sports Illustrated: Frank Ntilikina, PG, France | 18~

[agentofatlas]

Re Frank in general: I think I somewhat got my opinion on him. He can look super-crappy when he's forced to do too much and he's clearly never going to be a 23ppg guard who can bail you out on any possession bc of his shot creation ability -- but you're getting a 6'5 backcourt swiss army knife with him who can run a PnR properly, shoots the ball well, defends and can distribute. Cuban has stated for a while now that he wants a 'pass first'-PG. Frank would be just that as well as a two-way player who should be helpful going forward as a player that can make a ton of odd lineups work with his impact/skillset on both ends.

And I think he'd be a great fit here. Carlisle loves to roll with his PnR-heavy two PG-lineups and he's perfectly suited for that. I think somewhat like Deron was just w/o the late game-iso scoring but with better tools size-wise and defensively.

I don't see him ever filling the Superstar-void that we kinda still have to take care of one day, but I guess that's something we'll delay further into the future.

That's my impression as well. Frank has too many red flags for me to consider him a lead guard. He's a wing player. Both in strengths and weaknesses.

[agentofatlas]

We should pick Ntilikina. We need to draft a Future-AllStar and not a future 7th Man...

Ntilikina has the physical requirements to be a great player. With the right workethic and metal state he can develop into an all-star.

Players like Mitchell and Markkannen have a pretty low ceiling. At best you get a mediocre Roleplayer. Whats the best case for Markannen? Ryan Anderson?

Ntilikina ceiling is the same with Mitchell actually. Both freakish wings spans with Mitchell being smaller but having more athleticism. I see both players being 3 and D specialists.

Don't really see Frank as a point. Dribbles more like a wing. Burst is a little mediocre. But his floor game is enough to compensate but only as a 2 not a as a 1. If the Mavs draft him, we should still look into getting a point guard.

At this point I kinda agree with bobsquad in not ruling out picking a bigman. Collins would be ideal as he might be the best available player on the board.

I disagree with the comparison. Ntilikina is similar to Kris Dunn, not Mitchell. The latter has a jumper like Westbrook and playing style like Monta Ellis (in 30th indeed). Mitchell has much lower b-ball IQ. I don't think he's anything more than Crawford or JR Smith in PG body. He's also a poor lob passer. This do not fit well into our system.

Meanwhile, for French Frank, there's quite some question marks about his true position. It takes times for him to adjust. He's the least explosive guard in the lottery. But he's elite physical tools to succeed at next level. His ball-handling is not good enough against smaller speedy PG. However, we may be able to pair him up with another combo guard like Seth Curry rather easily.

At 9th pick, he's who he's. He's the least nba-ready PG in the lottery. To be sure, I like Dennis Smith a lot more than him especially because of his explosiveness and ability to finish at the rim. This fits our system tremendously. Not being able to trade up, then he's a reasonable talent despite flawes.

I was comparing ceilings not play styles.

[Pdx4life]

Sounds like the Sixers are willing to trade back to the top of the lottery. I wonder if we should try to trade up to #3 to guarantee we get the PG of the future. It seems like the Lakers are vacillating between Lonzo or Josh Jackson, which means Fox would be there at 3.

[dirkforpres]

Sounds like the Sixers are willing to trade back to the top of the lottery. I wonder if we should try to trade up to #3 to guarantee we get the PG of the future. It seems like the Lakers are vacillating between Lonzo or Josh Jackson, which means Fox would be there at 3.

We don't have nearly enough to talk them into loving 6 spots down unfortunately