Mavericks 2017 Off-season

[Mr B]

I personally like the 2-way abilities of Dennis verses the super offense of Kyrie. Plus the fact that you got Dennis tied up for at least 6-7 years verses Kyrie's 1-2 years makes this a no discussion in Dennis for Kyrie for me.

Also let me add, I think I am in Nerlen's camp of being disappointed that Dallas has not extended a professional offer. I don't want to disgruntle him before summer of 2018, even if we can offer him way more than anyone else. Or, is this a can't lose for the Mavs?

Agree with your Kyrie assessment. On top of that, Kyrie makes Dallas much better next year, but nowhere close to being a contender in the next 3-years. We'll lose out on draft position (5-6 spots) and be once against chasing a FA signing. Also, the fact that anyone wants to leave a situation where they shot the most shots to be the "leader" strikes me as a bad sign to make him your alpha.


I think Dallas is in a "can't lose" situation. Even if Noel wanted to stick it to Dallas, it's unlikely he'll make up the 10-million he'd miss out on this season signing a qualifying offer (unless he blows up). And with his injury risk + the lack of cap room next year, there won't be many more suitors. If Dallas was asking him to sign for 10-million, sure, that would be a different story. But if they are offering 15-16 million per year, then that is more than equal to what he has produced (ignoring this whole potential thing).

Noel needs to fire his agent (again) if he ends up walking away from the Mavs (rumored) offer of $18 mil a year/4 years. Then when you look at next year's FA class and who actually has money to spend $15-16 mil per year would be a huge score for Noel. I don't see how the Mavs could lose no matter what happens with Noel. Having Junior helps me feel that way.

[JamesConway]

Orlando's roster situation got even more interesting. They've just signed Afflalo on top of Fournier and Ross already being there at the SG-positions. Hezonja might be a candidate to be moved down even further in their depth chart I'd imagine.

Could be one of those moments where 'being opportunistic' pays off. I'd love to see us take a chance on him. I don't trust ORL at all when it comes to developing young players over the last 4-5 years. He's as much of a blue chipper as e.g. Noel/Dennis. Stud athlete, skilled, great size for a SG, can shoot it. He has always had those moments where he looked overly confident/arrogant but the talent is just too obvious Imo. He has all the tools to be a starter in this league. I think a coach like Rick would be perfect for him and we could use another long versatile offense-first wing off the bench anyway now that Nico is off the team.

[Texas Chuck]

not as high on his potential as you James, but totally agree with him as a potential buy low candidate to get in here to have Rick and the staff work with him.

[Mr B]

Orlando's roster situation got even more interesting. They've just signed Afflalo on top of Fournier and Ross already being there at the SG-positions. Hezonja might be a candidate to be moved down even further in their depth chart I'd imagine.

Could be one of those moments where 'being opportunistic' pays off. I'd love to see us take a chance on him. I don't trust ORL at all when it comes to developing young players over the last 4-5 years. He's as much of a blue chipper as e.g. Noel/Dennis. Stud athlete, skilled, great size for a SG, can shoot it. He has always had those moments where he looked overly confident/arrogant but the talent is just too obvious Imo. He has all the tools to be a starter in this league. I think a coach like Rick would be perfect for him and we could use another long versatile offense-first wing off the bench anyway now that Nico is off the team.

Hezonja kind of reminds me of a slightly more athletic Hedu Turkoglu. I'd have no problem at all with adding a 22 yr old Turkoglu. Realistically though, how willing would Orlando be to trade him? What would they want in return (realistically)?

[SLATER]

Piling on at this point but count me in as a member of the Church of Hezonja reclamation project. I won't disillusion myself into thinking he hasn't gotten a chance tho... something (or nothing) is happening in practices and behind closed doors to cause the coaches to greatly limit his minutes and opportunity.

[Darren]

I think what Dallas needs to weigh here is if they'ee willing to give up Junior for Irving. NYK wont give up Porzingis. Minny wont give up Towns. Miami can only give Dragic. And the Spurs sure wont give up Kawhi Leonard.

Now this puts us in an interesting spot of choosing between a sure deal at 25 years old (roughly the same age as Barnes). Or bet on potential with Junior.

At this point your guesses are as good as mine. But should Cuban go for Irving then I can totally see him go after Demarcus Cousins as well. Brings Dallas back to contention. Irving - Barnes - Cousins

Mark Cuban has ruled out the possibility of the Irving-Smith swap for 2 reasons:
1.Cavs ask for way too much
2.Dallas is not one of the shortlisted team by Irving

So that's the end of story for us. We don't want to pay a deep price for a rental who'd likely leave for nothing.

[JamesConway]

Orlando's roster situation got even more interesting. They've just signed Afflalo on top of Fournier and Ross already being there at the SG-positions. Hezonja might be a candidate to be moved down even further in their depth chart I'd imagine.

Could be one of those moments where 'being opportunistic' pays off. I'd love to see us take a chance on him. I don't trust ORL at all when it comes to developing young players over the last 4-5 years. He's as much of a blue chipper as e.g. Noel/Dennis. Stud athlete, skilled, great size for a SG, can shoot it. He has always had those moments where he looked overly confident/arrogant but the talent is just too obvious Imo. He has all the tools to be a starter in this league. I think a coach like Rick would be perfect for him and we could use another long versatile offense-first wing off the bench anyway now that Nico is off the team.

Hezonja kind of reminds me of a slightly more athletic Hedu Turkoglu. I'd have no problem at all with adding a 22 yr old Turkoglu. Realistically though, how willing would Orlando be to trade him? What would they want in return (realistically)?

No idea, I've opened up a poll on him on the trade board bc I was curious about that question myself. I'd probably value him somewhere between a late 1st or multiple early 2nds in a vacuum. I think the moves ORL made point heavily towards them being willing to move on but we don't know that for sure until something actually goes down. I'd be all over it though if that's what it ultimately comes down to.

[arkuo]

A young Hedo Turkoglu would be nice. Personally I'd prefer if we find a young Doug Christie to replace Wes at the 2. Could defend and shoot 3s and is lengthy. Dont know how easy or hard it is to scout those from the college level.

Someone like Jeremy Lamb from Charlotte comes to mind. I just dont know how they feel about trading the guy.

[2011Champs]

I'm just wondering if Cleveland would consider a S&T Nerlens Noel + others+ pick type package for Kyrie without the inclusion of Dennis SmithJr? I'd love to have Kyrie but not at the price of Jr. I may be greatly overvaluing Noel considering the lack of offers.

[arkuo]

I'm just wondering if Cleveland would consider a S&T Nerlens Noel + others+ pick type package for Kyrie without the inclusion of Dennis SmithJr? I'd love to have Kyrie but not at the price of Jr. I may be greatly overvaluing Noel considering the lack of offers.

Like I said in previous posts, considering what Jimmy Butler and Paul George got in return, and I would think Cuban has a nice relationship with Dan Gilbert (by siding with him during that Lebron fiasco), I think it can be done with Wes + Seth and our 2018 pick. Now if Kyrie walks away with his player option in 2019 we throw the max at Devin Booker, Kristaps Porzingis, or even Klay Thompson if GSW declines to pay him, to build around with Junior, Barnes and Noel. If Noel agrees to something below $20M then maybe we can even afford both.

[2011Champs]

I'm just wondering if Cleveland would consider a S&T Nerlens Noel + others+ pick type package for Kyrie without the inclusion of Dennis SmithJr? I'd love to have Kyrie but not at the price of Jr. I may be greatly overvaluing Noel considering the lack of offers.

I think it can be done with Wes + Seth and our 2018 pick.

I think if that is all it would take it would be done already.

[arkuo]

I'm just wondering if Cleveland would consider a S&T Nerlens Noel + others+ pick type package for Kyrie without the inclusion of Dennis SmithJr? I'd love to have Kyrie but not at the price of Jr. I may be greatly overvaluing Noel considering the lack of offers.

I think it can be done with Wes + Seth and our 2018 pick.

I think if that is all it would take it would be done already.

Maybe they (CLE) are shopping around for more value. But the truth is market dictates price. NYK wont part with Porzingis. MIN wont part with Towns. SAS sure wont give away Kawhi. Well, Miami has Dragic and Pat Riley's suit collection if that counts for something. I think Cleveland is overvaluing what they have and is in denial on what the market can give. Same can be said for Nerlens waiting on that $25M contract of his. Cleveland can let this reality show drama drag on til training camp, Dan Gilbert can be hard headed sometimes.

[SLATER]

2011Champs wrote:
arkuo wrote:
2011Champs wrote:
I'm just wondering if Cleveland would consider a S&T Nerlens Noel + others+ pick type package for Kyrie without the inclusion of Dennis SmithJr? I'd love to have Kyrie but not at the price of Jr. I may be greatly overvaluing Noel considering the lack of offers.


I think it can be done with Wes + Seth and our 2018 pick.
I think if that is all it would take it would be done already.


Maybe they (CLE) are shopping around for more value. But the truth is market dictates price. NYK wont part with Porzingis. MIN wont part with Towns. SAS sure wont give away Kawhi. Well, Miami has Dragic and Pat Riley's suit collection if that counts for something. I think Cleveland is overvaluing what they have and is in denial on what the market can give. Same can be said for Nerlens waiting on that $25M contract of his. Cleveland can let this reality show drama drag on til training camp, Dan Gilbert can be hard headed sometimes.

I think PHX is in position to throw caution to the wind and do something like Bledsoe, Warren and Bender for Kyrie which is better than any of the proposed offers I see. I also wouldn't rule out Minnesota putting Wiggins as the centerpiece of a deal for Kyrie... the Wolves and Cavs are communicating. I actually think Kyrie's value is a little higher than the league is leading on. He has something that few players have, and that is flash/highlights and a marketability which is just intoxicating to owners. Casual NBA fans love watching a player like Kyrie.

[Hadley]

If MIN is offering Wiggins, they got the best chance.

[Darren]

Powell and Barea to Milwaukee for Henson and Gary Payton II, anyone?

Henson can block shot but he's as skinny as Powell. And he's also limited offensively. Powell's some potential as a stretch 4. So the value is closed. J Kidd knows Barea well. Unlike Delly, he can create some offense. I expect the Bucks to be interested. This trade opens up a little rooms for 2018 offseason. And we get an unproven Payton who's supposed to be an above-average defender. If he can replace DH in a year, we've got a steal. Right now, his number sucks in particular shooting-wise.

[Darren]

Interesting thread. I think a lot of us are interested to join the discussion.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1601165&start=20#start_here

[spaceballer]

I personally like the 2-way abilities of Dennis verses the super offense of Kyrie. Plus the fact that you got Dennis tied up for at least 6-7 years verses Kyrie's 1-2 years makes this a no discussion in Dennis for Kyrie for me.

Also let me add, I think I am in Nerlen's camp of being disappointed that Dallas has not extended a professional offer. I don't want to disgruntle him before summer of 2018, even if we can offer him way more than anyone else. Or, is this a can't lose for the Mavs?

Agree with your Kyrie assessment. On top of that, Kyrie makes Dallas much better next year, but nowhere close to being a contender in the next 3-years. We'll lose out on draft position (5-6 spots) and be once against chasing a FA signing. Also, the fact that anyone wants to leave a situation where they shot the most shots to be the "leader" strikes me as a bad sign to make him your alpha.


I think Dallas is in a "can't lose" situation. Even if Noel wanted to stick it to Dallas, it's unlikely he'll make up the 10-million he'd miss out on this season signing a qualifying offer (unless he blows up). And with his injury risk + the lack of cap room next year, there won't be many more suitors. If Dallas was asking him to sign for 10-million, sure, that would be a different story. But if they are offering 15-16 million per year, then that is more than equal to what he has produced (ignoring this whole potential thing).

Noel needs to fire his agent (again) if he ends up walking away from the Mavs (rumored) offer of $18 mil a year/4 years. Then when you look at next year's FA class and who actually has money to spend $15-16 mil per year would be a huge score for Noel. I don't see how the Mavs could lose no matter what happens with Noel. Having Junior helps me feel that way.

It would be foolish for him to take the QO and kick the bucket down to next year.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20143724/nba-nuclear-winter-forecasted-free-agents-summer-2018

[SLATER]

by Darren » Yesterday 9:08 am

Powell and Barea to Milwaukee for Henson and Gary Payton II, anyone?

Henson can block shot but he's as skinny as Powell. And he's also limited offensively. Powell's some potential as a stretch 4. So the value is closed. J Kidd knows Barea well. Unlike Delly, he can create some offense. I expect the Bucks to be interested. This trade opens up a little rooms for 2018 offseason. And we get an unproven Payton who's supposed to be an above-average defender. If he can replace DH in a year, we've got a steal. Right now, his number sucks in particular shooting-wise.

I think I like it for us. My mind isn't made up on Powell tho... I'm flip flopping. I always here positive offseason workout news from him and by all accounts he seems to fit in and get along well with everyone and do all the off court workout stuff you'd want him to. Is your feeling on Powell that if he was going to take a significant leap forward it would have happened last year?

I think the trade your proposed shuffles the deck a bit and offers some defense over offense... I'm in favor of it.

[Teffer10]

by Darren » Yesterday 9:08 am

Powell and Barea to Milwaukee for Henson and Gary Payton II, anyone?

Henson can block shot but he's as skinny as Powell. And he's also limited offensively. Powell's some potential as a stretch 4. So the value is closed. J Kidd knows Barea well. Unlike Delly, he can create some offense. I expect the Bucks to be interested. This trade opens up a little rooms for 2018 offseason. And we get an unproven Payton who's supposed to be an above-average defender. If he can replace DH in a year, we've got a steal. Right now, his number sucks in particular shooting-wise.

I think I like it for us. My mind isn't made up on Powell tho... I'm flip flopping. I always here positive offseason workout news from him and by all accounts he seems to fit in and get along well with everyone and do all the off court workout stuff you'd want him to. Is your feeling on Powell that if he was going to take a significant leap forward it would have happened last year?

I think the trade your proposed shuffles the deck a bit and offers some defense over offense... I'm in favor of it.

I honestly think Powell's ceiling is just a little sub-par at every aspect of the game. Not horrible at anything but never good enough to be useful at anything.
Athletic as hell but I've never seen so little yield return from so much expended energy.
He can't rebound, defend or shoot well and plays too small for center so he is virtually useless in our system.

[Darren]

Are we interested in Andrew Wiggins? He's looking for a max contract next summer that Minny's reluctant to pay. Says Minny makes him available for Wes Matthews and 2 firsts, are we interested in the RFA next summer? Personally, I think Wes, 2018 first, Seth Curry and Miami 2023 second for Andrew Wiggins, Cole Aldrich and Nemanja Bjelica is possible.

C - Nerlens Noel / Salah Mejri / Cole Aldrich
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Josh McRoberts / Nemanja Bjelica / Dwight Powell
SF - Harrison Barnes / Dorian Finney-Smith
SG - Andrew Wiggins / Jose Barea
PG - Dennis Smith / Yogi Ferrell / Devin Harris

We have a much better chance to sign Cousins out right next summer. We can have a deeper playoff run with a serious upgrade at 2. Curry is a good shooter. So is Barea. I don't think Curry is a deal-breaker. Barea can resume his combo guard role easily. Cap-wise, I think the number is closed. I am not sure there is enough cap room to sign Cousins yet, though. If we don't need to take on Cole Aldrich and Nemanja Bjelica, I am willing to part with 2 firsts and keep Curry.

Meanwhile, Minny gets better defender and shooter that fits in quite well for them. Their spacing could be a lot better. In the process, they get a 1st or 2 (if the Mavs doesn't need to take on long term salary but expiring contracts with a third team).

Next offseason, we may end up with:
C - Nerlens Noel / Cole Aldrich (EXP) / Dwight Powell (PO)
PF - DeMarcus Cousins (UFA) / Dirk Nowitzki (EXP) / Nemanja Bjelica (EXP)
SF - Harrison Barnes / Dorian Finney-Smith / undrafted rookie (dirty work swingman who plays multiple positions)
SG - Andrew Wiggins (RFA) / Jose Barea (EXP) / undrafted rookie (pure shooter)
PG - Dennis Smith / Yogi Ferrell (RFA) / second round draft pick (find a great combo guard there)

If we can ask Wiggins and Ferrell to wait until we sign Cousins, we win big long term. And we've a lot of expiring contract going forward to 2019 offseason to fill some bench roles for frontcourt depth.