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Mavericks 2017 Off-season

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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1061 » by Mr B » Thu Aug 3, 2017 12:35 am

Pinkyring wrote:Shabazz Muhammad anyone?


He's the exact type of player they should be bringing in.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1062 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 5:03 am

The teams with expiring contracts that can take on both Wes&Powell are:

Milwaukee-Monroe/Hawes
Chicago-Wade
Philadelphia- Reddick/Amir
Utah-Favors/Johnson

Milwaukee would need a quality big back as they are looking to compete.
Chicago might do the deal, we would likely end up buying Wade out, instead of Chicago.. I don't see Cuban doing this.
A Wes Matthews + Dwight to Philadelphia deal for Reddick and Amir would be great for Dallas if Colangelo is willing to trade his big FA get.
Favors and Joe Johnson for Wes and Powell probably can't work unless Favors and Joe get hurt, bad.

Wes + Powell for Wade makes the most sense for me.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1063 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 5:44 am

HB essentially signed a 3+1 deal.

That means we get the offseason he signed with us, the second offseason (this one) and a 3rd offseason(next) and then he opts out and has a major cap hold.

I think the best way to build a roster is over the cap. (Especially with the cap leveling out and expiring contracts regaining value). Over the cap rules were rules Dallas used to build that perinial 50+ win team run and lead to a title.

I want to be in a position were, when HB opts out we will basically be capped out already and his ridiculous cap hold won't hurt us. If HB opts out the same year Wes expires we can only use Wes' contract as a trade chip and not as FA cap space. FA cap space next, I believe can net us better players(Gordon, Randale, KCP, Smart, Seth) than Wes' expiring will next season(I don't even know, bad contracts and picks?)

I believe we should use a protected 1st and 2+ 2nds to dump Wes and Powell, tank (hard) to keep the pick, stretch Barea and have

Noel(SHOULD ALREADY BE SIGNED AT 17-20MILLION), Nowitzki (5M), Barnes(24M), DSJ(4M)

JJB (stretched), DFS, Mejri, Yogi, and the new minimum guys all accounting for maybe a combined 9M on cap holds.

Rough math leaves us a 62M in contracts, meaning roughly 38M in cap space. That should sign us at least two of (Curry, KCP, Smart, Randale, Gordon) Probably we could sign 3 guys from this list. + add a top 7 draft pick and then resign Yogi for the mid level.

Noel/Nowitzki/Mejri
FA/
Barnes/DFS
FA/Curry/
DSJ/Ferrell

With whichever young guys from this summer stick+a top 7 pick+vet mins like Harris filling out the roster

Potentially:
Noel/Nowitzki/Mejri
Randale/Motley/pick#7
Barnes/DFS/Ashley
KCP/Curry/Harris
DSJ/Ferrell/(Ramon Sessions type)

I think this is how to maximise our time + assets. From here we let MBT make trades (they win trades mostly), use the mid and tax payer exemptions, and run over the cap like we did in the glory days.

The only unrealistic part of my plan is trading Wes + Powell + protected 1st(s) + 2nds for expiring contracts. I would trade two picks a

2018 1st top (7 protected for 3 years then two 2nds)
2022 1st (lottory protected for three years then two 2nds)
+ Wes + + Powell + Dallas '18 2nd + Dallas '20 2nd + Miami '21 2nd

For expiring contracts. I would try to dump JJB too.

Can someone post that offer to the t&t board (I'm banned there) and see if anyone would pony up the expierings for this?
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1064 » by Hadley » Fri Aug 4, 2017 9:59 am

Thats the worst Idea I ever heared. So we trade our Top10 Pick next Year for Stop Evading Filter -- Chuck what? Useless Capspace?
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1065 » by 2011Champs » Fri Aug 4, 2017 1:16 pm

Hadley wrote:Thats the worst Idea I ever heared. So we trade our Top10 Pick next Year for fücking what? Useless Capspace?

We really can't be trading away any picks at all especially over the next 5-7 years.
Hopefully Mavericks will learn from their mistake of overpaying players like Matthews. I doubt Matthews is moveable except to a very small handful of playoff teams in need of a 3&D guy.

I agree. Picks just can't be traded away and preferably have picks coming out way in future trades. I'd only consider trading picks for young stars such as maybe Kyrie or Porzingis if the opportunity ever arises.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1066 » by Darren » Fri Aug 4, 2017 5:55 pm

2011Champs wrote:
Hadley wrote:Thats the worst Idea I ever heared. So we trade our Top10 Pick next Year for fücking what? Useless Capspace?

We really can't be trading away any picks at all especially over the next 5-7 years.
Hopefully Mavericks will learn from their mistake of overpaying players like Matthews. I doubt Matthews is moveable except to a very small handful of playoff teams in need of a 3&D guy.

I agree. Picks just can't be traded away and preferably have picks coming out way in future trades. I'd only consider trading picks for young stars such as maybe Kyrie or Porzingis if the opportunity ever arises.


I don't think so. If a trade like DJ for Wes and fillers with a Mavs first, I will do it depending on the protection of the pick. As they're playing without a true PG, I expect DJ and their team efficiency to drop. They may look to trade for a younger big on multiple year deal instead of letting DJ walk. Meanwhile, the Mavs is looking for instant rebuild. DJ fits the bill. His strong rebounding and shot-blocking presence solve a lot of our deep root problem due to roster combination.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1067 » by 2011Champs » Fri Aug 4, 2017 6:18 pm

Darren wrote:
2011Champs wrote:
Hadley wrote:Thats the worst Idea I ever heared. So we trade our Top10 Pick next Year for fücking what? Useless Capspace?

We really can't be trading away any picks at all especially over the next 5-7 years.
Hopefully Mavericks will learn from their mistake of overpaying players like Matthews. I doubt Matthews is moveable except to a very small handful of playoff teams in need of a 3&D guy.

I agree. Picks just can't be traded away and preferably have picks coming out way in future trades. I'd only consider trading picks for young stars such as maybe Kyrie or Porzingis if the opportunity ever arises.


I don't think so. If a trade like DJ for Wes and fillers with a Mavs first, I will do it depending on the protection of the pick. As they're playing without a true PG, I expect DJ and their team efficiency to drop. They may look to trade for a younger big on multiple year deal instead of letting DJ walk. Meanwhile, the Mavs is looking for instant rebuild. DJ fits the bill. His strong rebounding and shot-blocking presence solve a lot of our deep root problem due to roster combination.

Mavs do that and I will no longer be a Mavs fan. They will have officially jumped the shark.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1068 » by Roddy B for 3 » Fri Aug 4, 2017 9:33 pm

Hadley wrote:Thats the worst Idea I ever heared. So we trade our Top10 Pick next Year for fücking what? Useless Capspace?


We trade a pick with protections we can tank under for cap space in what could be our last possible year to have cap space with Barnes on the roster.

Their is a lot of young talent that is attainable in next year's FA class. This way instead of getting a top 7 pick + Curry (resign) we get a top 7 pick + Curry (resign) + 1 or 2 of Randale, Aaron Gordon, KCP, Marcus Smart. In order to go from Wes, Dwight,Top 7 pick, Curry to (example) Randale, KCP, Curry, Top 7 pick we trade a pick with protections we can tank under.

If we have:
Noel/Nowitzki/Mejri
Randle
Barnes/DFS
KCP/Curry
DSJ/Yogi
+2018 top 7 pick

In 2018-19 season, I'm OK with losing multiple 2nds and the 11th pick in the 2019 draft.

*the risk would be we can't tank hard enough(which would be ridiculous if we can't lose enough on purpose), and we have to actually sign the players in FA (Boston is facing a cap squezze, L.A.L. is facing a cap squezze, KCP is unrestricted, and Orlando just picked a PF #5 when they already have Gordon).
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1069 » by Darren » Tue Aug 8, 2017 3:50 am

Noel, Matthews and Yogi for Drummond, Bradley and filler, anyone? This trade makes some sense. I know Drummond's a poor free throw shooter. But he's excellent rebounder and very good defender. At the same age, I want a player who wants to compete than look for big money. Both have some injury concern. A change of scenario may also help Noel. And he can get his money if Detriot is willing to pay all that. So the value is closed. Meanwhile, Pistons wants a true PG than Reggie Jackson. They get one in Yogi. They also get an upgrade from KCP. If they're not keen on maxing out Avery Bradley, I can see them want Matthews on potentially shorter contract. If Bradley is RFA, I think we've to part with a pick.

C - Andre Drummond / Salah Mejri / Dwight Powell /
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Josh McRoberts / Max Kleber
SF - Harrison Barnes / Dorian Finney-Smith
SG - Avery Bradley / Seth Curry
PG - Dennis Smith / Jose Barea / Devin Harris
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1070 » by arkuo » Tue Aug 8, 2017 5:13 am

Darren wrote:Noel, Matthews and Yogi for Drummond, Bradley and filler, anyone? This trade makes some sense. I know Drummond's a poor free throw shooter. But he's excellent rebounder and very good defender. At the same age, I want a player who wants to compete than look for big money. Both have some injury concern. A change of scenario may also help Noel. And he can get his money if Detriot is willing to pay all that. So the value is closed. Meanwhile, Pistons wants a true PG than Reggie Jackson. They get one in Yogi. They also get an upgrade from KCP. If they're not keen on maxing out Avery Bradley, I can see them want Matthews on potentially shorter contract. If Bradley is RFA, I think we've to part with a pick.

C - Andre Drummond / Salah Mejri / Dwight Powell /
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Josh McRoberts / Max Kleber
SF - Harrison Barnes / Dorian Finney-Smith
SG - Avery Bradley / Seth Curry
PG - Dennis Smith / Jose Barea / Devin Harris


This is pretty solid. Drummond should be a fixture in the post. We need a PF who can stretch defenses after Dirk leaves though. Hello Kristaps?

With this scenario we would need to pay to re-sign Avery Bradley. I wont have a problem with that. As long as he shoots the 3 well and locks down opposing guards. Barnes, DSJ and Drummond and whoever we slot in at PF should carry the scoring load. Havent watched a lot of Boston games. but I hope Bradley is like a young Tony Allen?
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1071 » by Mr B » Tue Aug 8, 2017 5:38 am

Darren wrote:Noel, Matthews and Yogi for Drummond, Bradley and filler, anyone? This trade makes some sense. I know Drummond's a poor free throw shooter. But he's excellent rebounder and very good defender. At the same age, I want a player who wants to compete than look for big money. Both have some injury concern. A change of scenario may also help Noel. And he can get his money if Detriot is willing to pay all that. So the value is closed. Meanwhile, Pistons wants a true PG than Reggie Jackson. They get one in Yogi. They also get an upgrade from KCP. If they're not keen on maxing out Avery Bradley, I can see them want Matthews on potentially shorter contract. If Bradley is RFA, I think we've to part with a pick.

C - Andre Drummond / Salah Mejri / Dwight Powell /
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Josh McRoberts / Max Kleber
SF - Harrison Barnes / Dorian Finney-Smith
SG - Avery Bradley / Seth Curry
PG - Dennis Smith / Jose Barea / Devin Harris


That would leave the Mavs with the worst paint defenders in the NBA. They would get KILLED inside.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1072 » by Roddy B for 3 » Tue Aug 8, 2017 6:49 am

[*]
Mr B wrote:
Darren wrote:Noel, Matthews and Yogi for Drummond, Bradley and filler, anyone? This trade makes some sense. I know Drummond's a poor free throw shooter. But he's excellent rebounder and very good defender. At the same age, I want a player who wants to compete than look for big money. Both have some injury concern. A change of scenario may also help Noel. And he can get his money if Detriot is willing to pay all that. So the value is closed. Meanwhile, Pistons wants a true PG than Reggie Jackson. They get one in Yogi. They also get an upgrade from KCP. If they're not keen on maxing out Avery Bradley, I can see them want Matthews on potentially shorter contract. If Bradley is RFA, I think we've to part with a pick.

C - Andre Drummond / Salah Mejri / Dwight Powell /
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Josh McRoberts / Max Kleber
SF - Harrison Barnes / Dorian Finney-Smith
SG - Avery Bradley / Seth Curry
PG - Dennis Smith / Jose Barea / Devin Harris


That would leave the Mavs with the worst paint defenders in the NBA. They would get KILLED inside.


This is a fine trade to me. Our top four would be
DSJ
HB
Bradley
Drummond

If DSJ can reach his predraft comparisons and Dummond can get back to his '15-'16 form we would be wise to do this trade. We would need another big or two long term for when Drummond starts getting hacked.

EDIT* To me Drummond is like a "rooK" in chess. He has a unique skill set, but some obvious flaws. IF used properly he could be a high impact player... IF his off court issues stay minor.

I think a high minute, healthy Noel is like a bishop BTW.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1073 » by Hadley » Wed Aug 9, 2017 4:31 pm

Stupid trade. Thats a trade for a Team thats want to be good, but you dont want to be good before you have a Star Player. And we still need to get high draftpicks to get a good core together.

And Drummond has pretty much negative Value. You can't fûcking play him in the Clutch.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1074 » by arkuo » Wed Aug 9, 2017 5:15 pm

The Mavs, in my opinion, are caught in a rut. At this point we'll need a couple franchise players to compete in the West. If free agents dont want to come here even with Dirk here, then they sure as hell wont come without the existing talent. Right now Dallas is probably the last option for players thinking of playing in Texas. On top of that, even if you get 2 franchise players you still have to compete with Golden State for the next 5 years. Even if Dennis Smith Jr turns into a 19 year old Allen Iverson (And that's pushing it), there's no way you get out of the West right now. Only hope is to collect lottery picks, it took like a decade to lay the groundwork for Philly to get Simmons, Embid and Fultz. But even if we get two really awesome young players from the draft, it wont guarantee a good showing. See Minnesota with Wiggins and Towns.

At this point, competing is moot. Dallas needs to catch the next wave. Let GSW and everybody else compete while we collect lotto picks for a decade. We're so bad right now that even if we get Michael Porter Jr and Marvin Bagley for 2 consecutive years, it still wont get us to be a Top 3 team in the league.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1075 » by 2011Champs » Wed Aug 9, 2017 5:42 pm

Truthfully I don't give a rat's ass about another Mav's championship right now. All I want to to see are 82 fun games a season. Put together a fun and exciting team to watch with good offense, win 50+ games and I'm really fine with that. I'm far more concerned about the entertainment factor of the team than the championship or bust attitude many fans have.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1076 » by Roddy B for 3 » Wed Aug 9, 2017 9:28 pm

2011Champs wrote:Truthfully I don't give a rat's ass about another Mav's championship right now. All I want to to see are 82 fun games a season. Put together a fun and exciting team to watch with good offense, win 50+ games and I'm really fine with that. I'm far more concerned about the entertainment factor of the team than the championship or bust attitude many fans have.


Thank you.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1077 » by Hadley » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:42 am

We need to pull a Sixers in the next few Years and try to get as many young Assets and Picks as possible. Then in like 3-5 Years when the Warriors break up we should have a solid core and can start to compete again.

There is really no reason to even try to be good. Unless we get LeBron and Curry together we wont even be close to a Championship and all we do is **** make our pick worse!

You obviously still want to show the young Kids to compete and play good Teambasketball, so they dont fall into bad habbits but trading for veterans is a really bad idea. And giving up draftpicks is a absolute no-go!
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1078 » by 2011Champs » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:56 pm

I have no problem with Dallas adding a few veterans as long as they continue to give the young guys ample minutes to develop. The competition is good for the young guys.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1079 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:37 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:Can someone post that offer to the t&t board (I'm banned there) and see if anyone would pony up the expierings for this?



Been on vacation so doing some catch up. You aren't banned on the T&T board so feel free to post your ideas over there. Just remember to follow the guidelines for OP's but other than that no issues.
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Re: Mavericks 2017 Off-season 

Post#1080 » by Mr B » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:17 pm

Hadley wrote:We need to pull a Sixers in the next few Years and try to get as many young Assets and Picks as possible. Then in like 3-5 Years when the Warriors break up we should have a solid core and can start to compete again.

There is really no reason to even try to be good. Unless we get LeBron and Curry together we wont even be close to a Championship and all we do is **** make our pick worse!

You obviously still want to show the young Kids to compete and play good Teambasketball, so they dont fall into bad habbits but trading for veterans is a really bad idea. And giving up draftpicks is a absolute no-go!


I want no part of being like the Sixers. They have been rebuilding since Iverson left. The culture they have established by the constant tanking has ruined any chance they had to be a good team.

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