Nerlens Noel takes $4.1M qualifying offer from Mavericks

fuller4379 · Post #141 » by **fuller4379** » Fri Sep 1, 2017 5:56 pm

double post

Post #142 » by **Wiltside** » Sat Sep 2, 2017 12:47 am

Hey Mavs fans,

Thought you may be interested in this article we wrote on Rich Paul, who Noel has recently appointed as his Agent. Taking a look at his track record and client list, I think Cuban is going to have a tough negotiation on his hands next offseason!

How do you feel about Noel's gamble? Will he be able to break even on the reported 4/70 he was offered?

Article is here if you're interested in reading more: https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/09/01/nba-rich-paul-mr-klutch-put-to-the-test/

SOUNDCHASER · Post #143 » by **SOUNDCHASER** » Sat Sep 2, 2017 4:25 pm

He wants to get paid more he needs to play more and not be a pussy about how he plays. Her needs to score and rebound and defend a lot more than he has.

Advanced metrics show he can but he has not done it yet and he has an injury history as well. I cannot fault the Mavs for doing what they did. They were forced into playing things that way by how the market behaved as well as how Noel has performed or not in the past. A better solution at center is only one tank season away either way and now we can go that direction and have a younger cheaper better player as our reward for not playing Noel and tanking or we can let Noel try to impress us and win our hearts to show he is better than other options and then get paid more here than anyone else is going to want to pay him.

That is the reality and he has to accept reality. If he does not then he is delusional and we should all just move on. IF he wants more $$ he needs to work hard in the offseason with the guys who do that to develop his game to become a better player that can handle the game as it comes at him with bigger better talented players and not just take advantage of guys who are below him on the totem pole.

If he looks lost or less than adequate against the bigger names all the time then why do we want him? He is auditioning for his future this season and has to do well or next season is going to be more of the same from disinterested teams except the Mavs will have many better options to take a chance on in the draft. Boogie is a free agent as well.

A tank could fill another roster spot and allow us to have a good team for a free agent to sign with. Dirk's last year in the league is one more year away at least so we need to develop a PF and get one of those in free agency or the draft. Add that to a free agent like Cousins and our other core pieces of Curry, DSJ and Barnes with Wes and Yogi being more than competent backups to add depth. The SF and PF backup spots are the ones we need to see players step up and take advantage of tehir opportunity. Will Finney Smith do it will Ma Powell or Motley take on that challenge and do well?

With 2 starters need at PF and C we need to see who is available in free agency that we can get and draft the other position. If we draft a C and there is a decent PF in free agency then we go that way but right now its looking like a perfect world would demand we go after Boogie and add a PF with our draft pick.

Who would we go after in the draft if we kept Noel and thought we could add a PF in free agency?

76ciology · Post #144 » by **76ciology** » Sat Sep 2, 2017 5:49 pm

Question is whether you showcase/evaluate Noel down the season or you less expose him, this is in consideration Noel just continued his usual play and the Mavs are out of playoff contention

Mr B · Post #145 » by **Mr B** » Sat Sep 2, 2017 6:55 pm

This is what I've been trying to say. Nerlens has very good trade value at the deadline, even if only for his contract.

http://thesmokingcuban.com/2017/08/31/dallas-mavericks-the-nerlens-noel-deal-is-a-good-thing/

DBoys · Post #146 » by **DBoys** » Sat Sep 2, 2017 10:17 pm

Mr B wrote:This is what I've been trying to say. Nerlens has very good trade value at the deadline, even if only for his contract.

http://thesmokingcuban.com/2017/08/31/dallas-mavericks-the-nerlens-noel-deal-is-a-good-thing/

LOL that website writes stuff about the Mavs, some of it interesting, but isn't some sort of final authority on the Mavs or Noel's trade value. In reality, no team is going to offer much for a two month rental of Noel, and certainly not enough to make it worth the Mavs' while to trade him, and certainly not "very good trade value." Good try though.

HoopsMalone · Post #147 » by **HoopsMalone** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 4:33 am

I disagree. I think hes got nice trade value. Hes cheap and enough to put a team like SAS or Cleveland over the top

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Mr B · Post #148 » by **Mr B** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 5:22 am

HoopsMalone wrote:I disagree. I think hes got nice trade value. Hes cheap and enough to put a team like SAS or Cleveland over the top

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Or he could be enough to put Boston over Cleveland. Boston has a gang of 1st round picks too.

Teffer10 · Post #149 » by **Teffer10** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 2:44 pm

Mr B wrote:
HoopsMalone wrote:I disagree. I think hes got nice trade value. Hes cheap and enough to put a team like SAS or Cleveland over the top

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Or he could be enough to put Boston over Cleveland. Boston has a gang of 1st round picks too.

Yeah, I see Boston as a very possible trade partner around the TDL.

DBoys · Post #150 » by **DBoys** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 4:33 pm

I can't believe you guys think Ainge would trade a valuable pick or set of picks for a player that he only gets for 2 months and then walks away. Because it's a fact he couldn't re-sign Noel if he got him. Of course he has the picks, but that's the exact opposite of the way Ainge has operated. The lack of tradable Bird rights guts Noel's trade value and would tend to make no one really eager to trade for him, and would also make the Mavs see way more value in keeping than trading.

arkuo · Post #151 » by **arkuo** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 4:59 pm

DB.com has info that Rich Paul may have coerced Noel into joining LBJ and PG13 in LA to revive the Lakers franchise in one go next year.

Mr B · Post #152 » by **Mr B** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 5:29 pm

76ciology wrote:Question is whether you showcase/evaluate Noel down the season or you less expose him, this is in consideration Noel just continued his usual play and the Mavs are out of playoff contention

The Mavs need to work him hard and get everything they can out of him. If he wants a max contract, make him prove that he's worth it. If he balls out and stays healthy and the Mavs are a defensive force then you max him out.

If he gets hurt again or if he doesn't play like a max player then that price comes down significantly. Or someone else gives him the money and the Mavs try to get a center in FA. That's why trading him st the deadline might be the best option.

k-lynch201 · Post #153 » by **k-lynch201** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 6:17 pm

DBoys wrote:I can't believe you guys think Ainge would trade a valuable pick or set of picks for a player that he only gets for 2 months and then walks away. Because it's a fact he couldn't re-sign Noel if he got him. Of course he has the picks, but that's the exact opposite of the way Ainge has operated. The lack of tradable Bird rights guts Noel's trade value and would tend to make no one really eager to trade for him, and would also make the Mavs see way more value in keeping than trading.

This does go both ways, they will want to be put over the top potentially with Noel even as a rental for the title hopes..but likely not willing to part with a 1st rounder.

If we dont see ourselves retaining Noel then we HAVE to get anything we can for him...it already seems like a marred relationship as it is.

Mr B · Post #154 » by **Mr B** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 6:58 pm

Do the Celtics still have their own 1st rounder next year? If they do I could see them giving that one up if it's a low pick (which it should be). Or if they really think that Noel could put them over the top would they be willing to give up a young player that's buried at the end of the bench like Guerschon Yabusele?

2011Champs · Post #155 » by **2011Champs** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 9:11 pm

And if Dallas wants to trade Noel it should be as simple as finding a team that will allow him to start and play heavy minutes. Dallas can always bench him in his contract year if Noel wants to be difficult about accepting a trade. We just can't expect much of an asset back...maybe a couple second round picks and a struggling young player.

Baller1234a · Post #156 » by **Baller1234a** » Mon Sep 4, 2017 9:34 pm

Mr B wrote:Do the Celtics still have their own 1st rounder next year? If they do I could see them giving that one up if it's a low pick (which it should be). Or if they really think that Noel could put them over the top would they be willing to give up a young player that's buried at the end of the bench like Guerschon Yabusele?

They really like Yab

Nader and Bird + LAC 1st round pick

daoneandonly · Post #157 » by **daoneandonly** » Tue Sep 5, 2017 12:55 pm

Baller1234a wrote:
Mr B wrote:Do the Celtics still have their own 1st rounder next year? If they do I could see them giving that one up if it's a low pick (which it should be). Or if they really think that Noel could put them over the top would they be willing to give up a young player that's buried at the end of the bench like Guerschon Yabusele?

They really like Yab

Nader and Bird + LAC 1st round pick

I don't think there's a trade between DAL and Bos. Your proposal is not bad at all, but as others have pointed out, Ainge won't be able to resign him, so I don't think he'll trade any picks for him. I think the only places that would be viable for a trade are those teams that could sign him back, Chicago comes to mind, and I wouldn't mind taking a chance on Portis if Noel became a distraction the first couple of months and was a malcontent.

Teffer10 · Post #158 » by **Teffer10** » Wed Sep 6, 2017 5:14 pm

DBoys wrote:I can't believe you guys think Ainge would trade a valuable pick or set of picks for a player that he only gets for 2 months and then walks away. Because it's a fact he couldn't re-sign Noel if he got him. Of course he has the picks, but that's the exact opposite of the way Ainge has operated. The lack of tradable Bird rights guts Noel's trade value and would tend to make no one really eager to trade for him, and would also make the Mavs see way more value in keeping than trading.

You could very well be right but Noel isn't making much so it would be fairly easy to match salaries with a player or two that won't have a chance to be with the Celts long-term anyway due to too much talent ahead of them in the depth chart. It might be worth compromising one or two of them for that one key defending piece that would put them over the top for one season.

I do agree there won't be any 1st rounders coming back but I think Ainge would be stupid to not give up a 2nd rounder or two to add a solid rim protector and defensive difference maker to a championship caliber team. The strategy of accumulating draft picks while rebuilding makes sense but when you have a sound starting 5 and deep bench on a serious contender that strategy needs to change to leverage those assets to address areas of present need.

DBoys · Post #159 » by **DBoys** » Wed Sep 6, 2017 8:37 pm

Teffer10 wrote:
DBoys wrote:I can't believe you guys think Ainge would trade a valuable pick or set of picks for a player that he only gets for 2 months and then walks away. Because it's a fact he couldn't re-sign Noel if he got him. Of course he has the picks, but that's the exact opposite of the way Ainge has operated. The lack of tradable Bird rights guts Noel's trade value and would tend to make no one really eager to trade for him, and would also make the Mavs see way more value in keeping than trading.

You could very well be right but Noel isn't making much so it would be fairly easy to match salaries with a player or two that won't have a chance to be with the Celts long-term anyway due to too much talent ahead of them in the depth chart. It might be worth compromising one or two of them for that one key defending piece that would put them over the top for one season.

I do agree there won't be any 1st rounders coming back but I think Ainge would be stupid to not give up a 2nd rounder or two to add a solid rim protector and defensive difference maker to a championship caliber team. The strategy of accumulating draft picks while rebuilding makes sense but when you have a sound starting 5 and deep bench on a serious contender that strategy needs to change to leverage those assets to address areas of present need.

" I think Ainge would be stupid to not give up a 2nd rounder or two to add a solid rim protector and defensive difference maker to a championship caliber team." ...That's not at all what I said about Ainge, however. Nor is it the issue under debate. I am being told that Noel has HIGH trade value, and then pointed in the direction of BOS that has lots of VALUABLE draft picks as a team who might offer a pretty package for him. And I objected to the idea that Ainge offers a lot to get a little.

So your push back at me really isn't on topic. Not even close. You point out that BOS could match salaries, but so what? That's not the problem, The problem is is that of getting a LOT for Noel, so much that the Mavs couldn't say no.

Sure, for a very low price, such as some mostly worthless 2nd rounders and some scrubs from the bottom of the bench, a team like BOS might be interested in Noel. Other teams too. But that's about the opposite of "high trade value." And I think it's ludicrous to say the Mavs will have any interest in giving him away for some other team's pile of junk and random trash.

Teffer10 · Post #160 » by **Teffer10** » Thu Sep 7, 2017 3:54 am

DBoys wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
DBoys wrote:I can't believe you guys think Ainge would trade a valuable pick or set of picks for a player that he only gets for 2 months and then walks away. Because it's a fact he couldn't re-sign Noel if he got him. Of course he has the picks, but that's the exact opposite of the way Ainge has operated. The lack of tradable Bird rights guts Noel's trade value and would tend to make no one really eager to trade for him, and would also make the Mavs see way more value in keeping than trading.

You could very well be right but Noel isn't making much so it would be fairly easy to match salaries with a player or two that won't have a chance to be with the Celts long-term anyway due to too much talent ahead of them in the depth chart. It might be worth compromising one or two of them for that one key defending piece that would put them over the top for one season.

I do agree there won't be any 1st rounders coming back but I think Ainge would be stupid to not give up a 2nd rounder or two to add a solid rim protector and defensive difference maker to a championship caliber team. The strategy of accumulating draft picks while rebuilding makes sense but when you have a sound starting 5 and deep bench on a serious contender that strategy needs to change to leverage those assets to address areas of present need.

" I think Ainge would be stupid to not give up a 2nd rounder or two to add a solid rim protector and defensive difference maker to a championship caliber team." ...That's not at all what I said about Ainge, however. Nor is it the issue under debate. I am being told that Noel has HIGH trade value, and then pointed in the direction of BOS that has lots of VALUABLE draft picks as a team who might offer a pretty package for him. And I objected to the idea that Ainge offers a lot to get a little.

So your push back at me really isn't on topic. Not even close. You point out that BOS could match salaries, but so what? That's not the problem, The problem is is that of getting a LOT for Noel, so much that the Mavs couldn't say no.

Sure, for a very low price, such as some mostly worthless 2nd rounders and some scrubs from the bottom of the bench, a team like BOS might be interested in Noel. Other teams too. But that's about the opposite of "high trade value." And I think it's ludicrous to say the Mavs will have any interest in giving him away for some other team's pile of junk and random trash.

Dude, please chill a little here and stop being so defensive in every response.
I was agreeing with most of what you said and only adding to the conversation more so than trying to argue any points.
In fact my point was basically in line with yours that we might have to move him for very low value assets just to get something for him....basically getting at least our two picks back and that I could see Ainge making those moves.

And my point about Ainge was about his known stubbornness to trade picks....had nothing to do with push back to you. I was simply stating (almost in sarcasm toward Ainge) that he might be willing to give up 2nd rounders for Noel.

Hell, if Noel pulls a Rondo on us, or it becomes clear he won't resign for whatever reason, then maybe we can turn the table on the Celts and net a player like they did in Crowder in the Rondo deal. Crowder was supposedly one of those end of the bench throw-in guys that Boston fans probably considered "junk and random trash" at the time. When you are in somewhat rebuild mode like we are, someone else's trash might become our treasure. In other words and my point is...why not get something in return for him rather than just let him walk if it becomes clear that he will move on after this season?
I'd much rather go into next off-season with a couple 2nd rounders and a young prospect or two than to just let Noel walk for nothing.
And my point is to only trade him in that scenario only if the situation becomes dire which could very well happen.

We completely agree that he does not have high trade value....I've never argued against that. We are not getting first rounders as I've stated before.