Who do you want the Mavs to draft in 2018?

[Mr B]

Wellp, unfortunately that also means that chances are extremely slim that we can put a quality team around Dennis anytime soon.

We know that they

- aren't very good at drafting
- have shown zero intention of investing into the draft in a LONG time (we never acquire additional picks or trade up, hasn't happened in over a decade)
- we won't sign any Superstars in FA, it's the Harrison Barnes/Wes Matthews/Chandler Parsons-tier we can get our hands out if we overpay but nothing more than that
- trading for Superstar-talent is difficult if you have no premier assets (Mavs are historically short on those)

I won't lie, I think we're doing some franchise-altering damage right now. I think chances are significant that we'll set back the organization for a few years if we miss out on a top 5 pick this year.

Future seems bleak for the Mavs Imo. And that's mainly bc the front office appears to have absolutely no type of long-term plan in place on top of them not being able to make the right moves more often than not (Rondo-trade, Noel-trade).

I fully expect a long stretch of Charlotte Hornets-ish type of basketball from us. Just entirely meaningless basketball. Zero chance at contending but also constantly going for the fake pride-crap that just gets you punished every June's draft night.

That’s possible too. If that happens though you’ll get your wish to be in the top 5 of the draft. Carlisle will be gone, Dirk will be gone, and Dennis will be gone. We’ll consistently be in the top 5 of the draft for at least the next decade. Basically we will go the Sixers route of rebuilding.

This must be what Orlando-fans have been used to. Or a notch above in the meaninglessness-standings: Charlotte.

I'm so disgusted by all this. The whole franchise has become a total joke. Zero drive to win, total acceptance of mediocrity. They are acting like it's some type of great accomplishment to be better than the worst 8/10 teams of the league and seem totally content with that goal going forward.

What a mess.

I was a fan through the 90’s, trust me it could get worse, much worse. I watched them trade away Kidd, hopefully they won’t be doing that with Dennis.

I actually believe there is a plan. Now the plan is not the same as the plan they had when they started last season. I believe going in to last season they fully expected to compete for the 8th seed. That changed though when they guys they brought in weren’t very good (Bogut and Wes). By mid season the tank caught up with them and they were forced to change their plan.

Since then they’ve drafted a cornerstone player in Dennis and have brought in some young free agents. Kleber looks like a solid backup big and Yogi looks like a good backup to Dennis. If they are able to shed Wes’ contract or use him as an asset to get another draft pick they will be in good shape. The Nerlens trade hasn’t worked out obviously but every rebuilding team isn’t going to hit on every player they bring in. If they can package Wes and Nerlens flip them for a pick or for cap space I’d see that as a win. The cap space could be used in trades and not just in free agency. Would the Lakers be willing to give up an asset in order to shed Deng’s contract? What about the Knicks with Noah? Both are teams that Noel would likely waive his no trade clause for. If they end up with 2 picks in that 9-12 range that would still be huge for the future of this team.

[fuller4379]

We are too bad to be good, but too good to be bad. It was nice though that Smith and Barnes had solid games today. They are the future.

[Torgeir Bryn]

Wellp, unfortunately that also means that chances are extremely slim that we can put a quality team around Dennis anytime soon.

We know that they

- aren't very good at drafting
- have shown zero intention of investing into the draft in a LONG time (we never acquire additional picks or trade up, hasn't happened in over a decade)
- we won't sign any Superstars in FA, it's the Harrison Barnes/Wes Matthews/Chandler Parsons-tier we can get our hands out if we overpay but nothing more than that
- trading for Superstar-talent is difficult if you have no premier assets (Mavs are historically short on those)

I won't lie, I think we're doing some franchise-altering damage right now. I think chances are significant that we'll set back the organization for a few years if we miss out on a top 5 pick this year.

Future seems bleak for the Mavs Imo. And that's mainly bc the front office appears to have absolutely no type of long-term plan in place on top of them not being able to make the right moves more often than not (Rondo-trade, Noel-trade).

I fully expect a long stretch of Charlotte Hornets-ish type of basketball from us. Just entirely meaningless basketball. Zero chance at contending but also constantly going for the fake pride-crap that just gets you punished every June's draft night.

That’s possible too. If that happens though you’ll get your wish to be in the top 5 of the draft. Carlisle will be gone, Dirk will be gone, and Dennis will be gone. We’ll consistently be in the top 5 of the draft for at least the next decade. Basically we will go the Sixers route of rebuilding.

This must be what Orlando-fans have been used to. Or a notch above in the meaninglessness-standings: Charlotte.

I'm so disgusted by all this. The whole franchise has become a total joke. Zero drive to win, total acceptance of mediocrity. They are acting like it's some type of great accomplishment to be better than the worst 8/10 teams of the league and seem totally content with that goal going forward.

What a mess.

But Charlotte and Orlando is quite different from the 76ers. They have tried to stay relevant, overpaid for mediocre players and chased the 8th seed for years. 76ers used to do the same with those Iggy-led teams, but realised they would never become a contender like that and tore it down. Now, after four bad years, they are the most exiting team in the league!

[Torgeir Bryn]

I wouldn't mind us winning games if it was because of DSJ going bonkers, but this good stretch has been led by our vets. The lineup of Barea, Harris, Yogi, Dirk and Powell has the best net rating of any lineups in the NBA with 50+ minutes played.

[JamesConway]

I wouldn't mind us winning games if it was because of DSJ going bonkers, but this good stretch has been led by our vets. The lineup of Barea, Harris, Yogi, Dirk and Powell has the best net rating of any lineups in the NBA with 50+ minutes played.

Those lineups just disgust me. Jesus. We're 26 days away from 2018, we suck major a**, have been irrelevant for years yet we somehow still manage that we roll out these old-as-dirt-squads to keep this whole ugly & sad scharade going.

Barea
Devin
Wes
Mejri
Dirk

that's 5 out of 10 absolute go-to rotation guys who will all be gone within next 1-3 years but we're relying heavily on them to play ourselves out of Bagley/Doncic/etc.

Unreal

[fuller4379]

The only way to lose is to take away Carlisle's tools. You have to admit that he is a great coach to be able to win 5 out of the last 8 games with this team of old timers. Barea, Harris, Mejri, and Matthews needed to be traded away immediately so the Mavs can tank.

[Pinkyring]

The only way to lose is to take away Carlisle's tools. You have to admit that he is a great coach to be able to win 5 out of the last 8 games with this team of old timers. Barea, Harris, Mejri, and Matthews needed to be traded away immediately so the Mavs can tank.

we suck though, it isn't like we are beating good teams, so im fine with us beating the scrubs, Denver and lac would have been loses if they were remotely healthy, we will lose the next 6 bos, mil, minny, spurs, warriors, spurs, we may beat 1 of those teams, so at 8-22 we still stink, we will win 25-28 games and finish bottom 5

[Torgeir Bryn]

The only way to lose is to take away Carlisle's tools. You have to admit that he is a great coach to be able to win 5 out of the last 8 games with this team of old timers. Barea, Harris, Mejri, and Matthews needed to be traded away immediately so the Mavs can tank.

we suck though, it isn't like we are beating good teams, so im fine with us beating the scrubs, Denver and lac would have been loses if they were remotely healthy, we will lose the next 6 bos, mil, minny, spurs, warriors, spurs, we may beat 1 of those teams, so at 8-22 we still stink, we will win 25-28 games and finish bottom 5

Yeah, that is a tough stretch. Milwaukee and Minnesota are the two games I could see us win, but they are both on the road.

[Pinkyring]

The only way to lose is to take away Carlisle's tools. You have to admit that he is a great coach to be able to win 5 out of the last 8 games with this team of old timers. Barea, Harris, Mejri, and Matthews needed to be traded away immediately so the Mavs can tank.

we suck though, it isn't like we are beating good teams, so im fine with us beating the scrubs, Denver and lac would have been loses if they were remotely healthy, we will lose the next 6 bos, mil, minny, spurs, warriors, spurs, we may beat 1 of those teams, so at 8-22 we still stink, we will win 25-28 games and finish bottom 5

Yeah, that is a tough stretch. Milwaukee and Minnesota are the two games I could see us win, but they are both on the road.

Yeah we probably split those 2, but again im perfectly with going 8-22 through the first 30, that's primes tank position, even if we win 20 of the last 52 that puts us at 28 wins, should be enough for top 5 pick

[Clyde Frazier]

Pretty impressed with bagley from the little i've seen. Gives me an anthony davis vibe.

[Teffer10]

I wouldn't mind us winning games if it was because of DSJ going bonkers, but this good stretch has been led by our vets. The lineup of Barea, Harris, Yogi, Dirk and Powell has the best net rating of any lineups in the NBA with 50+ minutes played.

Those lineups just disgust me. Jesus. We're 26 days away from 2018, we suck major a**, have been irrelevant for years yet we somehow still manage that we roll out these old-as-dirt-squads to keep this whole ugly & sad scharade going.

Barea
Devin
Wes
Mejri
Dirk

that's 5 out of 10 absolute go-to rotation guys who will all be gone within next 1-3 years but we're relying heavily on them to play ourselves out of Bagley/Doncic/etc.

Unreal

Completely agree.
I know we have different opinions on a tanking strategy but we completely agree on playing the young guys. I'm fine with winning when the young guys are getting heavy minutes and are the catalysts down the stretch but it is completely pointless at this point to ride these old horses just to eke out a few wins.
Cleveland should be a big part of the rotation imo. Rick should see how letting young players play through their mistakes enhances and expedites their development. He did it with Barea, Yogi, Kleber, DFS, DSJ, Powell and Crowder and the results weren't too bad in most cases. Can't understand why he refuses with some others. Its as if he feels obligated to give the old guys minutes out of respect or something.

[JamesConway]

Read on Twitter

It comes down to what this franchise wants more:

1) Chasing 30+ wins on the back of a super old bench that is good enough to outsmart a few teams every once in a while but still can't get far against the good teams of the league or

2) Making sure that Dennis gets his running mate for the next 5+ years

If we don't see a bunch of trades quickly then we can forget about the likes of Bagley/Doncic/Ayton/etc. We're in striking distance to teams like LAL/PH/MEM/BRK and could overtake them over the next 3-4 weeks.

Barea/Harris/Mejri. Two of these three have to go. The bench is what absolutely destroys any hopes for one of those elite prospects of next summer's class.

[Teffer10]

Read on Twitter

It comes down to what this franchise wants more:

1) Chasing 30+ wins on the back of super old bench that just outsmarts a few teams every once in a while but still can't get far against the good teams of the league or

2) Making sure that Dennis gets his running mate for the next 5+ years

If we don't see a bunch of trades quickly then we can forget about the likes of Bagley/Doncic/Ayton/etc. We're in striking distance to teams like LAL/PH/MEM/BRK and could overtake them over the next 3-4 weeks.

Barea/Harris/Mejri. Two of these three have to go. The bench is what absolutely destroys any hopes for one of those elite prospects of next summer's class.

And honestly we need to try to sell high on Matthews. He should have some value now and would be a great candidate to use for taking on a bad contract along with some future assets. We should be stockpiling as many draft picks as we can get out of these guys and then parley them into higher picks or useful young players on draft night.
You're right, the focus should be solely on building around DSJ and not trying to win a few to make Dirk and the other old guys happy.

Barea, Harris and Dirk are 3 of my top 5 Mavs of all time but I'd much rather watch them waving towels and cheering the young guys than taking development time and minutes from them.

[JamesConway]

And honestly we need to try to sell high on Matthews. He should have some value now and would be a great candidate to use for taking on a bad contract along with some future assets. We should be stockpiling as many draft picks as we can get out of these guys and then parley them into higher picks or useful young players on draft night.
You're right, the focus should be solely on building around DSJ and not trying to win a few to make Dirk and the other old guys happy.

Read on Twitter

That was last February. We somehow still didn't make a single trade to improve our draft position since then. All we got was that Miami 2nd in the Hammons-deal but that is far away (2023) and the whole trade was clearly about getting rid of Hammons more than anything else.

I honestly don't expect them to add a single additional pick for next summer. Just doesn't seem like that's something they're remotely interested in general even now that we're rebuilding.

[Teffer10]

And honestly we need to try to sell high on Matthews. He should have some value now and would be a great candidate to use for taking on a bad contract along with some future assets. We should be stockpiling as many draft picks as we can get out of these guys and then parley them into higher picks or useful young players on draft night.
You're right, the focus should be solely on building around DSJ and not trying to win a few to make Dirk and the other old guys happy.

Read on Twitter

That was last February. We somehow still didn't make a single trade to improve our draft position since then. All we got was that Miami 2nd in the Hammons-deal but that is far away (2023) and the whole trade was clearly about getting rid of Hammons more than anything else.

I honestly don't expect them to add a single additional pick for next summer. Just doesn't seem like that's something they're remotely interested in general even now that we're rebuilding.

Yeah, I thought we could've easily gotten 2 of Portland's 3 picks if we would have taken on Turner. They should at least get something for the McBob chip. McBob, Noel, Devin and Curry are about 18mil in cap relief for someone. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to yield a mid-round pick out of those 4.

[Mr B]

It won’t be the end of the world if they fall out of the top 5. I’d say there might even be less of a bust factor with some of the guys 6-10. Their ceiling isn’t as high but a guy like Jaren Jackson Jr is going to be a very good pro.

[Torgeir Bryn]

Why is Ayton's shot blocking so bad?

Ayton has the potential to be a new-age big man, but at this stage of his career, he’s a dominant post scorer who can’t protect the rim. As Okafor, Monroe, and Enes Kanter have shown, guys with that skill set have a big downside in the NBA. Ayton is much more athletic than any of them, but that doesn’t mean anything if he can’t constantly translate his tools to impacting the game on defense. He has an incredibly wide range of outcomes. Ayton could become a so-called unicorn, a 7-footer who protects the rim and shoots 3s, or he could end up as a guy who needs to play with one to be successful.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/7/16743900/deandre-ayton-arizona-blocks-nba-draft

[Mr B]

Why is Ayton's shot blocking so bad?

Ayton has the potential to be a new-age big man, but at this stage of his career, he’s a dominant post scorer who can’t protect the rim. As Okafor, Monroe, and Enes Kanter have shown, guys with that skill set have a big downside in the NBA. Ayton is much more athletic than any of them, but that doesn’t mean anything if he can’t constantly translate his tools to impacting the game on defense. He has an incredibly wide range of outcomes. Ayton could become a so-called unicorn, a 7-footer who protects the rim and shoots 3s, or he could end up as a guy who needs to play with one to be successful.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/7/16743900/deandre-ayton-arizona-blocks-nba-draft

His shot blocking is so bad because he has a tendency to drift away from the paint. He has all the skills to be a dominant big man in the paint he just doesn’t seem to like playing in the paint.

[Pointguard01]

The thing that I try to remind myself (as one of the fans that are pushing for a top 3 pick) is that Golden State built their team first on a #7, #11 and #35 pick (roughly). Then they got a premium FA. As much as I would love a top pick, there is no one right move.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Pinkyring]

Pretty impressed with bagley from the little i've seen. Gives me an anthony davis vibe.

Davis played defense Bagley doesnt