Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

Post #1241 » by **Dirk** » Sun Dec 8, 2019 2:01 pm

BlueSan wrote:Dirk posted this in a wrong thread at first didnt you Dirk?

anywhere is good for this

Imon wrote:
Captain_Obvious wrote:we are not worthy

Luka spin move sexy as hell.

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

DJ_3_Ball wrote:That was SWEET! (Luka's no look alley-oop to Powell)

oldshoolballer wrote:Luka not even looking with the lob pass Guy is unreal

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Also

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

BlueSan · Post #1242 » by **BlueSan** » Sun Dec 8, 2019 2:05 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
GaiusVelleius wrote:Yeah indeed. It is becoming more and more evident that his conditioning is still miles away from what it should be. You could see in these tough back to back games. He did a lot in PHX in the 1st Q and in the 4th he was already hurting. Saw it couple of times already this season. That's why his best quarters are 1st and 3rd after he gets long breaks obviously. Rough stretch of games are coming up and i am afraid he will continue to struggle if his legs are going to be tired.
Against Minny he literally had no proper lift and that's also why he missed so many layups (besides obvious fouls). But when he is rested he can finish extremely tough layups.

I don't remember the poster or the thread, but some guy in (maybe the Luka 2nd season thread) replied to my post saying essentially "Mavs have the best offense in the league. Why change anything?!"

I don't think Luka's usage and time of possession with the ball in his hands is healthy. It needs to be dialed back 10-15% or so. It's too much. The load is massive. It's at like historical NBA all time highs.

We don't need some asshat like DSJ who can't figure out whose team this is. But, we don't need a bench full of betas either. Somebody has to be willing to step up and help out---WHEN NEEDED.

Luka doesn't get that help. And, I do not think it's his conditioning. I don't think prime Jordan could handle this load. It's too much. There's no athlete on earth that should be attempting to do what the Mavs are forcing Luka to do; what his foolish, youthful ambition probably begs & pleads to do.

Somebody has to be the adult in the room and cut back Luka's workload, even if that means some losses.

I genuinely worry about this. It's a one-way ticket to a serious injury.

Probably the second best thing Don Nelson ever did for the Mavericks, outside of drafting Dirk in the first place, was keep Dirk out of the 2003 WCF. And that wasn't easy to do. But, it proved to be an excellent move for Dirk's long term health with the franchise.

Let's think big picture here.

Actually you could see that already when he was in Real Madrid.

Other playmakers like Campazo... people wanted the ball out of their hands and to Luka's or at the minimum that each time in the offense the ball touches Luka's hands.
People immediately saw that he makes MAGIC happen. He is the engine that starts it all, even if then some other player gets the assist, it needs to be Luka's decision on how the attack will go and if someone else will do it this time. He is that good, that special and this is where all the Luka Magic things came from.

This guy NEEDS to have the ball in his hands and dictate the flow of the game and when he is off the court, sure let other guys have a go at it but watching this guy in a corner while some other guy is dribbling and playmaking is truth be told PAINFUL as hell

Luka doesn't have to be the guy who shoots it or makes a drive to the basket all the time. I agree, but he has to be the decision-maker at every single point which means, he gets the ball first and only then decides what will happen. It is no coincidence that Dallas has the number 1 offensive rating at 117. which basically means 1,17 where anything above 1+ is really good.

This guy is a prodigy in the sense of decision making. A Prodigy already and a complete monster in the making if all goes as planned

LAMF · Post #1243 » by **LAMF** » Sun Dec 8, 2019 8:18 pm

Sorry if the video has been posted before. Doncic´s first pro game in Real Madrid (16 years old):

Watch on YouTube

DJ_3_Ball · Post #1244 » by **DJ_3_Ball** » Sun Dec 8, 2019 9:19 pm

BlueSan wrote:Luka doesn't have to be the guy who shoots it or makes a drive to the basket all the time. I agree, but he has to be the decision-maker at every single point...

I agree with what you said in your post. I wasn't trying to say... well, you've heard the expression "Too many cooks in the kitchen?" I'm not trying to say Luka should step aside and share decision making with someone else. I'm saying the guy is in the kitchen and he's short on ingredients. He has to MacGyver everything.

It's like Magic Johnson. Everyone wanted the offense to run through Magic Johnson. No one wanted anyone else doing that. But, this team is a bunch of Kurt Rambis & Michael Cooper's. Magic was running the fast break with James Worthy on his left and Byron Scott on his right. He didn't have to drive every time down the court through that contact. He could pass off to Byron Scott a couple times a game. Dump the ball into the low post to Worthy a few times a game.

Obviously, Magic had Kareem too, and we hope KP will develop into that type of unbelievable asset for the Mavs & Luka. Still, Magic didn't just have Kareem he had Worthy & Byron Scott played a big role on that team too.

There's just KP, who is climbing his way back to his old self, and then those Rambis & Cooper types on this squad. So, Luka has to do a lot. He shouldn't have to average a 30 point triple double for this team to win. But that's pretty much what is required.

Post #1245 » by **Dirk** » Mon Dec 9, 2019 12:05 pm

The refs
In recent games he has been complaining with good reason. He is being fouled and no calls are given. On the year, there were times where I felt he was complaining for no good reason.

A case can be made that "he shouldn't complain" I guess, especially as that can distract him, but someone ought to complain when he is being fouled clearly and fouls not being given. Yesterday,

Spoiler:

Distractions

Spoiler:

Plays like this (gets caught looking away) happen every now and then. Not frequent enough to be labelled an issue, but this particular instance was a big deal, cheap points for the other team when you're trying to make a run.

Shots

agentofatlas wrote: All I want is him to replace one or two stepback 3 plays a game to where he goes off ball and get a catch and shoot 3. That's it. I know he can do this since he did it before he was drafted.
.

Sounds simple. But feels more complex than that. Yesterday, he had a play where it seemed like he had a c&s, passed up on it and then took what looks like a tougher shot --- this looks dumb.

Spoiler:

Earlier, passes upon c&s. Makes a good play.

Spoiler:

For discussion -
Late game possessions

Spoiler:

I could post more about the late game struggles, but I don't want to somehow help detractors if they're lurking ahah.But let's just say that I have been tracking the possessions late in close games and it's ugly thus far. With some extra magic, the Mavs would have won some of those Blazers, Knicks, Kings games..

Brighter light

Spoiler:

DJ_3_Ball · Post #1246 » by **DJ_3_Ball** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:02 am

Dirk wrote:A case can be made that "he shouldn't complain" I guess...

... But let's just say that I have been tracking the possessions late in close games and it's ugly thus far. With some extra magic, the Mavs would have won some of those Blazers, Knicks, Kings games..

There's the whole referees are human & who wants to be bitched at everytime they make a mistake narrative. But, it really comes down to this for me. There's 15 Mavericks on this roster, and I can only think of one guy on this team who bitches at the refs EVERY time he misses a shot. Luka. It's Luka and it's Luka and it's Luka. It's Luka 100x over the entire rest of the roster. It's not a little too much. It's not just too much. It's absurd.

In the Kings game, you have to wonder if the refs weren't trying to teach him a lesson. Honestly, he deserves it.

I'm old school. You shut your bleeping mouth, and you get back on defense. You don't act like a Prima Donna. Maybe, maybe every 3-4 games, at a timeout or break in the action you politely walk up to a ref & say "Hey. On that last drive to the basket, I got hacked pretty hard on my wrist. That's why I missed. I'd appreciate it if you guys could keep an eye out for that. Thanks". Not this fail your arms around look disgusted like you can't believe it. Like your drunk friend just threw up all over your front seat & you've got to be a jackass about it. It's just not pleasant to watch. I hate watching Luka act like a child. Everyone else on the team is an adult, and they conduct themselves like professionals. Luka needs to grow up.

Those Knicks losses have a lot to do with THJ. I quoted some stats in the THJ discussion thread that even I wasn't aware of, at least to that degree, before I went back & took a closer look. I can't put either of those losses on Luka or KP, they both showed up for those games.

But, you're right. Luka cost us this game vs the Kings. I'm not going to hold it against him, and I know you're not either. I mean, we're 3rd in the West right now for one reason and his name is Luka Doncic. But, THJ was awesome in this one & so was the bench. Luka looked tired, frustrated, and at points uninterested.

Nikson · Post #1247 » by **Nikson** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:04 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
Dirk wrote:A case can be made that "he shouldn't complain" I guess...

... But let's just say that I have been tracking the possessions late in close games and it's ugly thus far. With some extra magic, the Mavs would have won some of those Blazers, Knicks, Kings games..

There's the whole referees are human & who wants to be bitched at everytime they make a mistake narrative. But, it really comes down to this for me. There's 15 Mavericks on this roster, and I can only think of one guy on this team who bitches at the refs EVERY time he misses a shot. Luka. It's Luka and it's Luka and it's Luka. It's Luka 100x over the entire rest of the roster. It's not a little too much. It's not just too much. It's absurd.

In the Kings game, you have to wonder if the refs weren't trying to teach him a lesson. Honestly, he deserves it.

I'm old school. You shut your bleeping mouth, and you get back on defense. You don't act like a Prima Donna. Maybe, maybe every 3-4 games, at a timeout or break in the action you politely walk up to a ref & say "Hey. On that last drive to the basket, I got hacked pretty hard on my wrist. That's why I missed. I'd appreciate it if you guys could keep an eye out for that. Thanks". Not this fail your arms around look disgusted like you can't believe it. Like your drunk friend just threw up all over your front seat & you've got to be a jackass about it. It's just not pleasant to watch. I hate watching Luka act like a child. Everyone else on the team is an adult, and they conduct themselves like professionals. Luka needs to grow up.

Those Knicks losses have a lot to do with THJ. I quoted some stats in the THJ discussion thread that even I wasn't aware of, at least to that degree, before I went back & took a closer look. I can't put either of those losses on Luka or KP, they both showed up for those games.

But, you're right. Luka cost us this game vs the Kings. I'm not going to hold it against him, and I know you're not either. I mean, we're 3rd in the West right now for one reason and his name is Luka Doncic. But, THJ was awesome in this one & so was the bench. Luka looked tired, frustrated, and at points uninterested.

You are complaining a lot about his complaining. I'm old school. You shut your bleeping mouth and watch a game

You can watch or not, how he complain on get beaten on every single action. If opponents decides to play that way.
He is the one who actually get beaten.
At the end of the day, he is a multiple time champion and MVP. He will learn. Problem will be if he start hitting back those annoying players.

You will see him determined, not a single complain games, when it will meter the most. 2020.

Mavericksfan · Post #1248 » by **Mavericksfan** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:24 pm

All I know is Luka is like Harden + Bird combined and it's amazing.

He may be the best passer in the league and if he masters that step back 3 it's over.

One thing i'd like to see is more Brunson + Luka lineups to allow him to spot up off ball more. He's really good with spacing and attacking close outs as well. This would also allow him to rest some on the court instead of initiating everything.

Would also like to see Luka setting screens for other guards to force mismatches for him the post.

But honestly I can't complain about much since Mavs currently have the highest Orating ever.

leolozon · Post #1249 » by **leolozon** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:47 pm

It’s funny because I was thinking that Luka didn’t have a great game in a while. He’s “only” 27/9.4/7.6 on worst shooting in December. But then I remembered that he only played 3 quarters in 2 of his game and was done dirty by the refs in 2 others. If not for this, he would be pretty close to his averages. The Kings and The Wolves games had 4-5 missed calls in each of them.

It’s funny how some missed calls can completely change our perception of what is a good or bad game.

The 3pt shooting is concerning though as he’s not better than last year. I was expecting him to get to .350 this year. I hope it’s something he can figure out.

DJ_3_Ball · Post #1250 » by **DJ_3_Ball** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:45 pm

Nikson wrote:You are complaining a lot about his complaining. I'm old school. You shut your bleeping mouth and watch a game
...

There's just a lot of it on this forum. I mean, all fan bases talk about bad officiating. I know it isn't going to stop. But, there's a lot of good content on this forum. A lot of interesting posts. I'd rather talk about those than the officials. I'd like for Mavericks' fans to be better than all of that.

I'd like for Luka to be better than that too. Honestly, outside of Luka's childish behavior with the refs, there's not much else to criticize him for. The turnovers, improved shooting & shot selection, better defense, meh... he's 20 years old. That will come with time. I'm positive.

Post #1251 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:01 pm

The Luka Love Fest (justifiably) continues:

Spoiler:

Numbers don't lie: Luka Doncic's historic sophomore season is second to none in the NBA's modern era

The reigning Rookie of the Year is racking up stats that make him a legitimate MVP contender

In the history of the NBA, there's only been three players who averaged 25-plus points at the tender age of 20: Kevin Durant (25.3), LeBron James (27.2) and Luka Doncic (30.0). We have not seen a 20-year-old do what Doncic is currently doing in the league right now. Through 23 games, he's one rebound and one assist shy of averaging a triple-double, and he's the only player right now that ranks in the top 15 of the league in points (3rd), rebounds (15th) and assists (2nd) per game.

Every game the Dallas Mavericks' emerging superstar plays, it seems like he's rewriting the record books. He's already broken Michael Jordan's record for most consecutive games of recording 20-plus points, five rebounds and five assists, as well as demolished Magic Johnson's record for most triple-doubles before turning 21 (Magic had seven while Doncic is already up to 15 with two months left before his 21st birthday).

When you hold his numbers up side-by-side with some of the greatest second-year seasons we've seen in the modern era of the NBA, which for the purpose of this article starts when the 3-point line was introduced (in the 1979-80 season), it becomes pretty clear that Doncic's sophomore season so far is the best we've seen. And when you factor in Doncic's age, it makes what he's doing all the more impressive.

LeBron previously had the most impressive second season that we've seen in the modern era, and while there is still a ton of basketball to be played this season, what we've seen from the first month and a half from Doncic indicates that he's not slowing down anytime soon. He's put the Mavericks in a position to get back to the playoffs for the first time in four years, and he's certainly a heavy favorite to make the All-Star team after narrowly missing out his rookie season. He's also among the top three or four players mentioned in the MVP conversation. If Doncic is this impressive now as a 20 year old, imagine what he'll look like when he's 25 and in the middle of his prime.

CBS Sports

There's No Doubt That Luka Doncic Is the Breakout Star of 2019

When Luka Doncic arrived in the NBA, there was little question he would be good. But this good, this fast?

Oftentimes with international prospects it can be harder to know. With Luka Doncic you thought you knew. You began to believe in 2012, when Real Madrid signed him out of Ljubljana, Slovenia, at 13. Three years later he became the youngest player ever on the European powerhouse. Then at 19, Doncic not only led Real to the EuroLeague title but was also named league and Final Four MVP.

But Mavericks president Donnie Nelson knew. For years he had hopped flight after flight to watch Doncic play. What he saw amazed him. The NBA’s bread-and-butter play is the pick-and-roll, and Doncic already showed mastery as a teen. A gifted passer, he could use his 6' 7" height to see over defenses and his sturdy frame to knife through them. At 19 he was averaging 16 points per game against grown EuroLeague men. Whenever Dallas coach Rick Carlisle asked Nelson which player he liked most in the 2018 draft, Nelson told him Doncic—and that it wasn’t even close.

Now, about 100 games into his NBA career, everybody knows. Doncic averaged 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds and 6.0 assists last season, running away with Rookie of the Year honors. This season he is pouring in around 30 points per game and threatening to become just the third player in NBA history to average a triple double. At 20, he’s an MVP candidate leading a surprise contender in the West. After dueling with the Lakers in November, LeBron James bear-hugged Doncic, telling him, “You’re a bad mother------."

In Doncic, Dallas doesn’t just have the breakout player of 2019—they have a breakout star. His teammates have dubbed him the Matador, a nod to his flair for showmanship. They say he loves going up against other top players. Consider: Earlier this month, in a rematch with the Lakers, Doncic stared down James in the fourth quarter. A teammate came to set a screen. Doncic waved him off. Two dribbles between his legs got James moving backward, and a step-back created enough space for Doncic to bury a 27-footer. There is no more doubt.

SI.com

Archx · Post #1252 » by **Archx** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:18 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:The Luka Love Fest (justifiably) continues:

Spoiler:
Numbers don't lie: Luka Doncic's historic sophomore season is second to none in the NBA's modern era

The reigning Rookie of the Year is racking up stats that make him a legitimate MVP contender

In the history of the NBA, there's only been three players who averaged 25-plus points at the tender age of 20: Kevin Durant (25.3), LeBron James (27.2) and Luka Doncic (30.0). We have not seen a 20-year-old do what Doncic is currently doing in the league right now. Through 23 games, he's one rebound and one assist shy of averaging a triple-double, and he's the only player right now that ranks in the top 15 of the league in points (3rd), rebounds (15th) and assists (2nd) per game.

Every game the Dallas Mavericks' emerging superstar plays, it seems like he's rewriting the record books. He's already broken Michael Jordan's record for most consecutive games of recording 20-plus points, five rebounds and five assists, as well as demolished Magic Johnson's record for most triple-doubles before turning 21 (Magic had seven while Doncic is already up to 15 with two months left before his 21st birthday).

When you hold his numbers up side-by-side with some of the greatest second-year seasons we've seen in the modern era of the NBA, which for the purpose of this article starts when the 3-point line was introduced (in the 1979-80 season), it becomes pretty clear that Doncic's sophomore season so far is the best we've seen. And when you factor in Doncic's age, it makes what he's doing all the more impressive.

LeBron previously had the most impressive second season that we've seen in the modern era, and while there is still a ton of basketball to be played this season, what we've seen from the first month and a half from Doncic indicates that he's not slowing down anytime soon. He's put the Mavericks in a position to get back to the playoffs for the first time in four years, and he's certainly a heavy favorite to make the All-Star team after narrowly missing out his rookie season. He's also among the top three or four players mentioned in the MVP conversation. If Doncic is this impressive now as a 20 year old, imagine what he'll look like when he's 25 and in the middle of his prime.
CBS Sports

There's No Doubt That Luka Doncic Is the Breakout Star of 2019

When Luka Doncic arrived in the NBA, there was little question he would be good. But this good, this fast?

Oftentimes with international prospects it can be harder to know. With Luka Doncic you thought you knew. You began to believe in 2012, when Real Madrid signed him out of Ljubljana, Slovenia, at 13. Three years later he became the youngest player ever on the European powerhouse. Then at 19, Doncic not only led Real to the EuroLeague title but was also named league and Final Four MVP.

But Mavericks president Donnie Nelson knew. For years he had hopped flight after flight to watch Doncic play. What he saw amazed him. The NBA’s bread-and-butter play is the pick-and-roll, and Doncic already showed mastery as a teen. A gifted passer, he could use his 6' 7" height to see over defenses and his sturdy frame to knife through them. At 19 he was averaging 16 points per game against grown EuroLeague men. Whenever Dallas coach Rick Carlisle asked Nelson which player he liked most in the 2018 draft, Nelson told him Doncic—and that it wasn’t even close.

Now, about 100 games into his NBA career, everybody knows. Doncic averaged 21.2 points, 7.8 rebounds and 6.0 assists last season, running away with Rookie of the Year honors. This season he is pouring in around 30 points per game and threatening to become just the third player in NBA history to average a triple double. At 20, he’s an MVP candidate leading a surprise contender in the West. After dueling with the Lakers in November, LeBron James bear-hugged Doncic, telling him, “You’re a bad mother------."

In Doncic, Dallas doesn’t just have the breakout player of 2019—they have a breakout star. His teammates have dubbed him the Matador, a nod to his flair for showmanship. They say he loves going up against other top players. Consider: Earlier this month, in a rematch with the Lakers, Doncic stared down James in the fourth quarter. A teammate came to set a screen. Doncic waved him off. Two dribbles between his legs got James moving backward, and a step-back created enough space for Doncic to bury a 27-footer. There is no more doubt.
SI.com

NBA's new generation of talent, specially from the past 2 or 3 drafts is silly good. Too bad there is a lot of people out there who don't want to give them credit for what they are doing. That goes for any young player in the NBA basically. God forbid you compare achievements with other all time greats, it's suddenly different era and new era of basketball doesn't mean anything. People complaining about ratings or lack of stars, it's silly. NBA is in good hands and all these young 19-22yo players will be incredibly fun to watch in 5-6 years time. And i think competition will be as high as it has ever been.

Post #1253 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:56 pm

NBA First-Quarter Awards and 2020’s Other Big Races

Most Improved Player of the Quarter: Luka Doncic, Mavericks

Reasonable people can define “most improved” in a bunch of different ways. Maybe you think the honor should go to someone who moves from the fringes of the league into a more prominent role, maybe you prefer a known-quantity veteran who’s taken a significant leap in one particular area, maybe you like young guys establishing themselves as two-way monsters, like Orlando’s Jonathan Isaac, Toronto’s OG Anunoby, or Miami’s Bam Adebayo.

As hard as all of those leaps are to make, though, I’m not sure anything’s harder to do than become a top-five player in the league. Doncic has—for right now, at this specific moment—done exactly that.

Before this season, only 13 players had averaged more than nine rebounds per game in their age-20 or younger season; nobody had ever averaged 30 points or nine assists per game before turning 21. Luka’s doing all of that at the same time, while serving as the pick-and-roll maestro at the controls of the league’s most explosive offense and putting Dallas in position to return to the postseason after a three-spring hiatus.

He’s gone from just south of the All-Star Game to one of the five best players in the league, and he’s done it in less than a year. Guys are supposed to get better from their first season to their second. There aren’t that many guys, though, who have reached the rarefied air Luka’s living in as quickly as he’s gotten there.

The Ringer

The Top 25 Players of the First 25ish Games

A modest ranking of the best in the league more than a quarter of the way through the 2019-20 NBA season

4. Luka Doncic, Mavericks

Highest rank: 2nd
Lowest rank: 5th
30 points, 9.2 assists, 9.8 rebounds, 1.3 steals, 55.2 eFG%, 7.8 net rating

Zach Kram: Doncic has a reasonable argument to rank even higher on this list—an outrageous thought by itself, given he’s only a 20-year-old second-year player. He leads advanced stat leaderboards like box plus-minus and VORP. He helms the Mavericks’ league-best offense while handling the ball more than any other player in the league. He nearly averages a triple-double even in his worst games. However, his defense rates the worst of any player at the top of this list—Dallas allows 9.1 more points per 100 possessions with Doncic on the court than off—so that small sliver of downside bumps him behind the top trio. Still, no Ringer staffer could find reason to rank Doncic outside the top five. He’s played fewer than 100 career games and we all think he’s a top-five player. What a future he has ahead of him—and what a present in the meantime.

The Ringer

fuller4379 · Post #1254 » by **fuller4379** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:42 am

Read on Twitter

fuller4379 · Post #1255 » by **fuller4379** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:43 am

Read on Twitter

Post #1256 » by **Dirk** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:52 am

Sort out the fapping material below please.

Spoiler:

Post #1257 » by **Jamaaliver** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:53 pm

Dirk wrote:Sort out the fapping material below please.

He is so slow...but so damn good.

:love:

J_T · Post #1258 » by **J_T** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:33 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Dirk wrote:Sort out the fapping material below please.

He is so slow...but so damn good.

Luka is as quick as he needs to be. It's hard to find any PG in the league that can one-two step longer distance than him.

fuller4379 · Post #1259 » by **fuller4379** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:32 pm

Luka is the guy that Big Don Nelson always wanted. (Of course there are 30 coaches who would love Luka on their team.) I remember that Don Nelson always wanted a point forward for his offense. We traded for Antoine Walker in 2003 to be a point forward. That failed miserably. At least the Celtics took on Raef LaFrentz in that trade.

daoneandonly · Post #1260 » by **daoneandonly** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:42 pm

fuller4379 wrote:Luka is the guy that Big Don Nelson always wanted. (Of course there are 30 coaches who would love Luka on their team.) I remember that Don Nelson always wanted a point forward for his offense. We traded for Antoine Walker in 2003 to be a point forward. That failed miserably. At least the Celtics took on Raef LaFrentz in that trade.

And Walker ended up turning into Terry, who was huge in our title win