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Jalen Brunson discussion

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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#221 » by daoneandonly » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:12 pm

Think this thread deserves a bump with Trent Jr's play. Here's a guy the team has a built in connection to via his dad and plays a position if need, but we go after the Triple Double Allower Brunson. Could have gotten Robinson too.

At the time, just drafted Luka, had DSJ, expected to resign Yogi and Barea, maybe Harris. Wasted be pick
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#222 » by Heezzi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:01 pm

It was a wasted pick. We needed another 3pt shooter since we lost McDermott and we got him instead.

Luka was drafted, we still had DSJ, Harris, Barea.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#223 » by Heezzi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:10 pm

Even crazier. Many NBA mock drafts see us drafting PG. Why? It makes no sense. We have too many point guards as it is.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#224 » by Pointguard01 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:42 pm

daoneandonly wrote:Think this thread deserves a bump with Trent Jr's play. Here's a guy the team has a built in connection to via his dad and plays a position if need, but we go after the Triple Double Allower Brunson. Could have gotten Robinson too.

At the time, just drafted Luka, had DSJ, expected to resign Yogi and Barea, maybe Harris. Wasted be pick


But what if we took Khyri Thomas or Melvin Frazier? I know for a fact many people on this board were high on both of them (including me— I liked Thomas).

I get your point but generally speaking, when you get a rotation guy in the 30s, it’s a good pick.Gary Trent or Mitchell Robinson weren’t sure things, which is why they didn’t go higher. And many teams had a chance at them, either via a direct pick or trading up.

Brunson was a good pick. You also don’t draft on need, esp when drafting in the 30s.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#225 » by Heezzi » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:03 am

Pointguard01 wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Think this thread deserves a bump with Trent Jr's play. Here's a guy the team has a built in connection to via his dad and plays a position if need, but we go after the Triple Double Allower Brunson. Could have gotten Robinson too.

At the time, just drafted Luka, had DSJ, expected to resign Yogi and Barea, maybe Harris. Wasted be pick


But what if we took Khyri Thomas or Melvin Frazier? I know for a fact many people on this board were high on both of them (including me— I liked Thomas).

I get your point but generally speaking, when you get a rotation guy in the 30s, it’s a good pick.Gary Trent or Mitchell Robinson weren’t sure things, which is why they didn’t go higher. And many teams had a chance at them, either via a direct pick or trading up.

Brunson was a good pick. You also don’t draft on need, esp when drafting in the 30s.


You don't draft a PG with you have 4 of them. When you are drafting in the 30s, you have draft a specialist. You don't draft for an allstar.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#226 » by Pointguard01 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:42 am

Heezzi wrote:
Pointguard01 wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Think this thread deserves a bump with Trent Jr's play. Here's a guy the team has a built in connection to via his dad and plays a position if need, but we go after the Triple Double Allower Brunson. Could have gotten Robinson too.

At the time, just drafted Luka, had DSJ, expected to resign Yogi and Barea, maybe Harris. Wasted be pick


But what if we took Khyri Thomas or Melvin Frazier? I know for a fact many people on this board were high on both of them (including me— I liked Thomas).

I get your point but generally speaking, when you get a rotation guy in the 30s, it’s a good pick.Gary Trent or Mitchell Robinson weren’t sure things, which is why they didn’t go higher. And many teams had a chance at them, either via a direct pick or trading up.

Brunson was a good pick. You also don’t draft on need, esp when drafting in the 30s.


You don't draft a PG with you have 4 of them. When you are drafting in the 30s, you have draft a specialist. You don't draft for an allstar.


- Yogi was (and still is) clearly a 3rd string PG
- Devin Harris (35) and JJ Barea (33) were too old to be considered part of a rebuild
- It’s obvious now DSJ was not what Dallas wanted so I’m sure they knew he would have been moved sooner than later.
- And funny how you are calling Luka a PG when here’s the most common players he was compared to: James Harden, Jumbo Manu Ginobili, Tyreke Evans, Toni Kukoc, Hedo Turkoglu.

So, 3 of the 4 PGs/players weren’t even going to be in a 9-man rotation 2-years later (Harris is out of the legare, Yogi can barley get mins in SAC, Barea is a locker room guy). Even if you forgo my BPA strategy, those players should never have influenced your decision.

And you’re missing the point. When you draft for need or for a specialist instead of BPA, you might end up with a player that will never make it (hence, the two players I mentioned that most of this board wanted. Frazier and Thomas ‘fit a need’ or were ‘3&D players’. It’s easy to just say, “what if we took [insert the player that turned out being good]”. But, what if we took the player that was out of the league in 3-yrs.

This was a good value pick.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#227 » by daoneandonly » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:05 pm

Pointguard01 wrote:
Heezzi wrote:
Pointguard01 wrote:
But what if we took Khyri Thomas or Melvin Frazier? I know for a fact many people on this board were high on both of them (including me— I liked Thomas).

I get your point but generally speaking, when you get a rotation guy in the 30s, it’s a good pick.Gary Trent or Mitchell Robinson weren’t sure things, which is why they didn’t go higher. And many teams had a chance at them, either via a direct pick or trading up.

Brunson was a good pick. You also don’t draft on need, esp when drafting in the 30s.


You don't draft a PG with you have 4 of them. When you are drafting in the 30s, you have draft a specialist. You don't draft for an allstar.


- Yogi was (and still is) clearly a 3rd string PG
- Devin Harris (35) and JJ Barea (33) were too old to be considered part of a rebuild
- It’s obvious now DSJ was not what Dallas wanted so I’m sure they knew he would have been moved sooner than later.
- And funny how you are calling Luka a PG when here’s the most common players he was compared to: James Harden, Jumbo Manu Ginobili, Tyreke Evans, Toni Kukoc, Hedo Turkoglu.

So, 3 of the 4 PGs/players weren’t even going to be in a 9-man rotation 2-years later (Harris is out of the legare, Yogi can barley get mins in SAC, Barea is a locker room guy). Even if you forgo my BPA strategy, those players should never have influenced your decision.

And you’re missing the point. When you draft for need or for a specialist instead of BPA, you might end up with a player that will never make it (hence, the two players I mentioned that most of this board wanted. Frazier and Thomas ‘fit a need’ or were ‘3&D players’. It’s easy to just say, “what if we took [insert the player that turned out being good]”. But, what if we took the player that was out of the league in 3-yrs.

This was a good value pick.


I agree with heez. In the 2nd round, you dont draft bpa, you draft for need. And every mock i saw had trent and robinson going ahead of brunson, so no, we didnt even draft bpa
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#228 » by swaggerbox » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:37 pm

I agree. Players like Brunson are a dime dozen in the draft. I had Mitchell Robinson going to the Mavs because I always thought he had the most potential among all players still available at our turn. Arent backup PGs available everywhere? Did Mavs envision Brunson as a starter? Nope, they had him as backup PG all along. This draft, I hope they draft all high ceiling 3&D prospects with picks#18 and #31 because that is what they need. Funny, because I see mock drafts had Mavs drafting PGs Theo Maledon, Tyler Terry and Kira Lewis. Unless they plan to release Wright and Brunson and Barea retires, picking another PG would seem to be another headscratcher.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#229 » by Mr B » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:55 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
Pointguard01 wrote:
Heezzi wrote:
You don't draft a PG with you have 4 of them. When you are drafting in the 30s, you have draft a specialist. You don't draft for an allstar.


- Yogi was (and still is) clearly a 3rd string PG
- Devin Harris (35) and JJ Barea (33) were too old to be considered part of a rebuild
- It’s obvious now DSJ was not what Dallas wanted so I’m sure they knew he would have been moved sooner than later.
- And funny how you are calling Luka a PG when here’s the most common players he was compared to: James Harden, Jumbo Manu Ginobili, Tyreke Evans, Toni Kukoc, Hedo Turkoglu.

So, 3 of the 4 PGs/players weren’t even going to be in a 9-man rotation 2-years later (Harris is out of the legare, Yogi can barley get mins in SAC, Barea is a locker room guy). Even if you forgo my BPA strategy, those players should never have influenced your decision.

And you’re missing the point. When you draft for need or for a specialist instead of BPA, you might end up with a player that will never make it (hence, the two players I mentioned that most of this board wanted. Frazier and Thomas ‘fit a need’ or were ‘3&D players’. It’s easy to just say, “what if we took [insert the player that turned out being good]”. But, what if we took the player that was out of the league in 3-yrs.

This was a good value pick.


I agree with heez. In the 2nd round, you dont draft bpa, you draft for need. And every mock i saw had trent and robinson going ahead of brunson, so no, we didnt even draft bpa

That is a legit argument. Was Brunson even the BPA? Doesn’t look like it at the moment. It’s absolutely fine to be upset about that. I completely disagree that you don’t take beat player available. You always take best player available. Now they should have taken Trent or Robinson because they were the BPA at the time instead of Brunson. When you pick for need, especially in the second round you might as well be throwing the pick away because the player likely will not even make your roster. Never take the lesser player just because he fits a need.


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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#230 » by Captain_Obvious » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:53 pm

I trust in Jalen. Heady player with patience build into his game. When he is on the court we get confident and decisive plays - i.e. not Delon. Lethal 3pt and a nice turnaround J in his repertoire. That combination is far from dime a dozen. Our bench is missing him badly.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#231 » by arkuo » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:01 pm

In around 3 years time, when Seth, Delon and JJ are not with the Mavs anymore, I'm hoping Jalen develops into a good 3&D point guard like Jamal Murray of Denver. Works well running around Jokic and getting open threes. And also locks down opposing PGs on defense. Hope he gets there.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#232 » by Heezzi » Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:49 am

Captain_Obvious wrote:I trust in Jalen. Heady player with patience build into his game. When he is on the court we get confident and decisive plays - i.e. not Delon. Lethal 3pt and a nice turnaround J in his repertoire. That combination is far from dime a dozen. Our bench is missing him badly.


Jalen has thrown away way more games than Wright ever has. The problem with Wright is that he is a ISO SG in listed as a PG but can't shoot. Lethal 3pt? Hahaha. Ha. Ha. He shot 35.8% from 3. Jalen's problem is that he is an ISO SG in a PG's body. The only time he passes is when the shot clock is low after he tries to find his own shot first. He's a Rondo with a better shot.

arkuo wrote:In around 3 years time, when Seth, Delon and JJ are not with the Mavs anymore, I'm hoping Jalen develops into a good 3&D point guard like Jamal Murray of Denver. Works well running around Jokic and getting open threes. And also locks down opposing PGs on defense. Hope he gets there.


He would be lucky to still be in the league in 3 years let alone on the of the Mavs. He's an undersized PG with an average shot. At least with Barea, his 3pt shot kept defenses honest, and his quickness got him to rim. Brunson doesn't have that. All he has is people saying "He's a winner" because he won in college. That doesn't mean you are good player. He's a career backup. At this point, Trey Burke has replaced him.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#233 » by arkuo » Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:44 am

Heezzi wrote:
He would be lucky to still be in the league in 3 years let alone on the of the Mavs. He's an undersized PG with an average shot. At least with Barea, his 3pt shot kept defenses honest, and his quickness got him to rim. Brunson doesn't have that. All he has is people saying "He's a winner" because he won in college. That doesn't mean you are good player. He's a career backup. At this point, Trey Burke has replaced him.


Don't forget that his dad is buddies with Carlisle. That's also the reason why he has a job with the Mavs now. Family connections.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#234 » by deb » Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:53 am

Y'all talking like Brunson is an unplayable scrub. He's a decent rotational player, is 23, and gets paid less than the vet minimum... As for drafting a better player, anyone can be a general after the battle. I'm just happy the mavs got a useful player in the second round. Maybe if the mavs drafted Robinson, he'd butt heads with Carlisle and already be out of the league. Where's this year's mavs 2nd round pick?
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#235 » by daoneandonly » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:18 pm

deb wrote:Y'all talking like Brunson is an unplayable scrub. He's a decent rotational player, is 23, and gets paid less than the vet minimum... As for drafting a better player, anyone can be a general after the battle. I'm just happy the mavs got a useful player in the second round. Maybe if the mavs drafted Robinson, he'd butt heads with Carlisle and already be out of the league. Where's this year's mavs 2nd round pick?


Well the main problem here is the roster was chalk full of PG's, not to mention we drafted one just a couple hours prior.

There's a guy who before the college year started was mocked to be a lottery pick, a guy who's father played for these very mavericks. He falls in your lap, plays a position of need, and you pass on him for Jalen Brunson.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#236 » by Heezzi » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:42 pm

It's funny. I looked up Mitchell Robinson's dad, because of some confusion, and found out that he's from Pensacola, FL. He's not a hot head, he's from Pensacola. People are built differently there. I'm from there.


deb wrote:Y'all talking like Brunson is an unplayable scrub. He's a decent rotational player, is 23, and gets paid less than the vet minimum... As for drafting a better player, anyone can be a general after the battle. I'm just happy the mavs got a useful player in the second round. Maybe if the mavs drafted Robinson, he'd butt heads with Carlisle and already be out of the league. Where's this year's mavs 2nd round pick?


Roby? Traded.

You want to know how dumb of a draft it was in 2018? The Mavericks drafted PGs. Luka, Brunson, and ........ Shake Milton.
Shake is starting for the 76ers now.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#237 » by dirkforpres » Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:21 pm

deb wrote:Y'all talking like Brunson is an unplayable scrub. He's a decent rotational player, is 23, and gets paid less than the vet minimum... As for drafting a better player, anyone can be a general after the battle. I'm just happy the mavs got a useful player in the second round. Maybe if the mavs drafted Robinson, he'd butt heads with Carlisle and already be out of the league. Where's this year's mavs 2nd round pick?


Drives me absolutely insane seeing so many fake Mavs trades that include Brunson. I think he’s fantastic and there’s a reason he got so much PT- it was well deserved.

He might not ever become a star, but he’s about as good of a guard off the bench as there is in the league.. Dallas shouldn’t just hastily give him up like some of these posters are so willing to do
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#238 » by Pointguard01 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:31 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
deb wrote:Y'all talking like Brunson is an unplayable scrub. He's a decent rotational player, is 23, and gets paid less than the vet minimum... As for drafting a better player, anyone can be a general after the battle. I'm just happy the mavs got a useful player in the second round. Maybe if the mavs drafted Robinson, he'd butt heads with Carlisle and already be out of the league. Where's this year's mavs 2nd round pick?


Well the main problem here is the roster was chalk full of PG's, not to mention we drafted one just a couple hours prior.

There's a guy who before the college year started was mocked to be a lottery pick, a guy who's father played for these very mavericks. He falls in your lap, plays a position of need, and you pass on him for Jalen Brunson.


This 2020 hindsight is so easy to do right now.


(1) Luka Doncic is not a traditional PG, not did we know he could be the primary ball-handler when we drafted him in 2018 that he is today. His comparisons were James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Hedo Turkaglu, Larry Bird --- all of these players have some sort of PG that plays next to them, so your idea that "we just drafted a PG 2-hrs earlier" is such a cop out. And we've already spoken about the other PGs on the roster were clearly going to be irrelevant 2-years later (ie Harris = out of the league; Barea/Yogi = 3rd stringers; DSJ = the Mavs knew he wasn't going to be on this team)

(2) You can play a PG next to him.

(3) This idea that you can just say "we should have drafted the good player" is another cop out and you're using hindsight. None of these players you wanted us to draft were clearly BPA at our pick (see just a couple examples below). In fact, players like Kyrie Thomas, Hamidou Diallo, etc are in front of most of them. The likely scenario is we draft one of these players that never cracks the rotation.

- Draft Express had Mitchell Robinson at #39 and Gary Trent Jr at #42
- Sports Illustrated had Mitchell Robinson at #39 and Gary Trent Jr at #42

(4) We realize 1/2 the league passed on these same players? There was a reason for it. And I GUARANTEE you a guy like Gary Trent Jr will come back to earth when he isn't playing in the bubble.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#239 » by daoneandonly » Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:04 pm

Lest not forget for all the folks complaining about Wright. Brunson is a huge reason we even signed him, courtesy of the 2 triple doubles Delon dropped on him last season while Jalen was guarding him.
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Re: Jalen Brunson discussion 

Post#240 » by Teffer10 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:09 pm

Pointguard01 wrote:
Heezzi wrote:
Pointguard01 wrote:
But what if we took Khyri Thomas or Melvin Frazier? I know for a fact many people on this board were high on both of them (including me— I liked Thomas).

I get your point but generally speaking, when you get a rotation guy in the 30s, it’s a good pick.Gary Trent or Mitchell Robinson weren’t sure things, which is why they didn’t go higher. And many teams had a chance at them, either via a direct pick or trading up.

Brunson was a good pick. You also don’t draft on need, esp when drafting in the 30s.


You don't draft a PG with you have 4 of them. When you are drafting in the 30s, you have draft a specialist. You don't draft for an allstar.


- Yogi was (and still is) clearly a 3rd string PG
- Devin Harris (35) and JJ Barea (33) were too old to be considered part of a rebuild
- It’s obvious now DSJ was not what Dallas wanted so I’m sure they knew he would have been moved sooner than later.
- And funny how you are calling Luka a PG when here’s the most common players he was compared to: James Harden, Jumbo Manu Ginobili, Tyreke Evans, Toni Kukoc, Hedo Turkoglu.

So, 3 of the 4 PGs/players weren’t even going to be in a 9-man rotation 2-years later (Harris is out of the legare, Yogi can barley get mins in SAC, Barea is a locker room guy). Even if you forgo my BPA strategy, those players should never have influenced your decision.

And you’re missing the point. When you draft for need or for a specialist instead of BPA, you might end up with a player that will never make it (hence, the two players I mentioned that most of this board wanted. Frazier and Thomas ‘fit a need’ or were ‘3&D players’. It’s easy to just say, “what if we took [insert the player that turned out being good]”. But, what if we took the player that was out of the league in 3-yrs.

This was a good value pick.

Yes, you always go with BPA in the 2nd round because they can become a valuable asset to trade.
I'd also say that drafting players in the 2nd round with low floors and high ceilings would be a wise drafting policy.

Role players are a dime a dozen and can be easily acquired. Aging vets, lotto busts, UFAs, etc... can be had for next to nothing and you use future 2nd round picks to acquire those if trades are required. We have a roster full of those type of players so taking a calculated guess on a 2nd rounder with some serious potential is definitely the way to go.

Now I will say that drafting a player who would fit our system would be a wise policy as well. If that player doesn't fit it will be difficult to develop them into a tradable asset. For instance, drafting Udoka Azubuike would be a horrible pick for us even though he is an absolute beast in the paint on both ends because he'd never see the court in our system. Brunson was a good fit and has been a decent backup player with some potential trade value.
I think Burke has opened up some options for us with both Wright and Brunson becoming expendable for trades. We may need to include Brunson to unload Wright.

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