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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#21 » by Mr B » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:25 pm

agentofatlas wrote:I see the annual "RC sucks" crowd is alive again lol. I say he's been fine and adjusted accordingly. I mean you only have to compare to the games beginning of season to now. Instead of losing in blowouts on the road, the team is actually keeping it close. It's all fine tuning from here with the mindset of the development of not only Luka but DSJ as well.

As for the comment that the game passed him well I disagree. He actually runs very modern offensive sets (which features Luka a ton btw).

The one thing I agree is that he does tend to play the bench a little too much in the 4th. He needs to find minutes elsewhere or at least bring in Luka back earlier.


Yea I don’t get it either. Has he been perfect? No, but with what he has to work with he’s been really good this season. This team has 1 budding superstar who is a rookie and really a bunch of has beens and nobody’s. Based on talent there really is no reason they should be close to sniffing the 8th seed. Yet Carlisle has this team playing really well.

And apparently most everyone here hasn’t realized but the Mavs have one of the better benches in the entire NBA. They are playing extremely well, especially at home. So with a bench that’s playing that way it allows them to give Luka some rest. You can’t expect Luka to play every single minute of every single game. Even at 19 he needs a rest.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#22 » by 2011Champs » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:45 pm

Archx wrote:Dirk and Luka did actually play some seconds together, but not much more.

Call me crazy, but i think Dirk should have been on the floor for those last 4 seconds... That would have been another decoy RC could have used to free up someone. I really expected Dirk to be there. And maybe Luka or Dirk could have got themselves open for an easy 3.

I still trust Dirk in the clutch. He should have been out there.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#23 » by HMFFL » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:51 pm

Archx wrote:I'll never understand why RC is regarded as one of the top coaches ever? Or something like that. He did have quite a super team even when they won a championship....

But i do have to give him props, because i see that he is the type of coach, who will always force them to play sets. And that's superb. Look at HOU, a monkey could do the same job as Mike there. ISO Harden all day ( even if it works ), it's just stupid.

But my criticism towards him is basically "on the fly coaching"... He screwed up so many times this season already, i mean just go back and look how many close games they have lost. And you asked yourself in those losses, what the hell are they doing? Who called the play like that?

And i agree, his bench mob rotation is just too much. Sure, play players who are hot, i don't mind that, or play someone who can really help on defense aka Kleber. But sitting starters for almost 9 mins and then ask them to close the game, after they get cold, is kinda weird.
For example, Davis played 43 min, Gentry really wanted to win this game, he was playing Davis to his full potential and it paid off, Mavs best player usually plays only 32mpg per night, even when he is hot and making great plays. Those are small differences that you just can't overlook.

So all in all, i think he is a great coach for designing plays before the game and getting people involved, but on the fly coaching, at least this year, he is average at best to me.
I have never known RC to be considered one of the greatest ever. He is due a great amount of respect but even when he retires he won't be viewed as one of the greatest.

To say he had a superteam is very amusing. In no way did he ever have a superteam, but a superior he did have in Dirk, and a group that was above average, and veterans that had been around the block.

Back to his Coaching ability. It was proven how good of a coach he is when we beat Miami to win the championship. That's when many fans forgave RC for anything in the past and viewed him as our coach until he no longer wants us.


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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#24 » by J_T » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:56 pm

Although I have my own critical points (who doesn't... everyone thinks they would do better than any coach in the league) I will defend the coach here.

Lord Cuban wrote: I started the Barnes topic because he is a scrub being paid like a top player...

Come on now... Barnes is not a scrub. He is overpaid, but he is not a scrub. He is a legitimate starter.

- He's playing his bench squad to much time... I will not talk about the first two quarters of the game because to me the problem is in the 3rd and 4th quarter... He always gives a rest for the starters with about 4 or 5 minutes to the end of the 3rd quarter (That's not a problem) but he will give his bench mob about 7 minutes in the 4th while the starters will only play about 5 minutes... That's crazy and he refuses to adjust no matter what... Like other said it's like he's just looking at the clock...

- With his bench mob eating to much minutes.... We have other problem... It seems to me that he has not managed well the hot players... In countless moments we have seen Doncic, Harris or even Barnes on fire and RC just decide to make a sub... The only guy that's immune to this is Barea...

I have to agree about this to some extent. I am trying to understand why he is playing bench players so much in second half and here are some possible reasons:
- he wants to keep everyone happy an feels that everyone should be getting playing time; he plans to narrow the rotation as season goes on
- he wants to keep starters accountable and hungry for closing the game
- he feels that bench is often closer to the starters than some would say; opposing coaches are subbing around the same time so it might be a psychological trick to try to keep both teams' bench on the court for as long as possible, if you think that your bench is better than the opponents' bench
- Mavs bench is often better than the opponents' bench
- Main players are either not in best physical shape and/or have problems with injuries; he wants to keep players fresh for a game being played next day or the day after
- Most coaches have fixed rotation/sub times; with some of the best coaches you could pretty much exactly predict when a certain player is going to be playing; an example of such coach would be Pop back in the best times

What Rick does seem to have problems with is not recognizing hot/cold hand. This is something I think many NBA coaches could learn from European coaches. If a player is not playing well - bench him. If on the other hand a player is playing game of his life, let him end the game, even if he is a bench player.

Archx wrote: But like "2011Champs" said, he should criticize his veterans more during the game. Saw quite often that he yelled at Luka for example, why not tell Barnes to freaking pass the ball to an open guy when he is stuck around 3 defenders, and still pulls up an impossible shot. Or tell DAJ to bring more effort on D or tell Powell to actually stop shooting like he was Ray Allen etc... Those "small" things are killing Mavs this year and if this continues, i am 100% sure they won't make PO.

First of all... nothing is 100%. If you are 100%, give me appropriate odds and I will bet against you. :) Shall we say 1000:1? I bet 5 bucks, you pay me 5000? A steal for you if you are 100% sure.
I agree that he should criticize his veteran players but... maybe he does. Just not during the game. Wes has experienced the intervention and as a consequence, he is playing much better and his game is more aligned with what team needs or doesn't need. Who is to say that such discussions are not being done with each player? In fact, most probably they are.
At this point we should at least entertain the idea that some of the things we are complaining about are actually intended. There could be various reasons for that. For example as much as Rick hates turnovers, he said that it's better that Luka keeps his game and has a turnover or two extra per game. DAJ's lack of defense... I HAVE to believe that these are the instructions given by the coaching staff. Often he is going out of his way to not give an impression that he is playing any defense at all. In fact he gets extremely annoyed whenever he gets a personal foul, I can almost see him saying "Ref, I am actively trying NOT to play any defense at all, are you kidding me?!" Keeping DAJ out of foul trouble might be extremely important to the coaching staff. They might think that with the new rules risk of getting a foul is way too high compared to the potential benefit of being more engaged in defense.

agentofatlas wrote:I see the annual "RC sucks" crowd is alive again lol. I say he's been fine and adjusted accordingly. I mean you only have to compare to the games beginning of season to now. Instead of losing in blowouts on the road, the team is actually keeping it close. It's all fine tuning from here with the mindset of the development of not only Luka but DSJ as well.

As for the comment that the game passed him well I disagree. He actually runs very modern offensive sets (which features Luka a ton btw).

Agreed. Rick has made big adjustments since the start of the season, he is running good plays. He is however a coach that has his players' back. He is loyal to his players and his players are loyal to him. Otherwise it's hard to lead the team these days. The veterans have earned his trust and they will be rewarded. I don't even blame him for that. It's not like Mavs are contenders.

Archx wrote:Call me crazy, but i think Dirk should have been on the floor for those last 4 seconds... That would have been another decoy RC could have used to free up someone. I really expected Dirk to be there. And maybe Luka or Dirk could have got themselves open for an easy 3.

Agreed, Dirk could have been out there, easily.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#25 » by Archx » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:30 am

J_T wrote:First of all... nothing is 100%. If you are 100%, give me appropriate odds and I will bet against you. :) Shall we say 1000:1? I bet 5 bucks, you pay me 5000? A steal for you if you are 100% sure.


I know you're just trying to stay positive, we all hope Mavs make PO obviously. But if you lose more than 90% of your road games in this western conference, you won't make it. Simple as that. We'll see if they can turn that trend upwards next month. BUT... that also means they have to keep winning games at home, so they need to stay almost as good as they are now, which is almost impossible.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#26 » by gh123 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:40 am

rc should have been gone in 2012. I wonder when Mark will get his head out of his ass.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#27 » by Rn5ho » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:59 pm

Archx wrote:
J_T wrote:First of all... nothing is 100%. If you are 100%, give me appropriate odds and I will bet against you. :) Shall we say 1000:1? I bet 5 bucks, you pay me 5000? A steal for you if you are 100% sure.


I know you're just trying to stay positive, we all hope Mavs make PO obviously. But if you lose more than 90% of your road games in this western conference, you won't make it. Simple as that. We'll see if they can turn that trend upwards next month. BUT... that also means they have to keep winning games at home, so they need to stay almost as good as they are now, which is almost impossible.


Why?
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#28 » by Archx » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:14 pm

Rn5ho wrote:
Archx wrote:
J_T wrote:First of all... nothing is 100%. If you are 100%, give me appropriate odds and I will bet against you. :) Shall we say 1000:1? I bet 5 bucks, you pay me 5000? A steal for you if you are 100% sure.


I know you're just trying to stay positive, we all hope Mavs make PO obviously. But if you lose more than 90% of your road games in this western conference, you won't make it. Simple as that. We'll see if they can turn that trend upwards next month. BUT... that also means they have to keep winning games at home, so they need to stay almost as good as they are now, which is almost impossible.


Why?


I personally don't believe that they can sustain this kind of success at home till' the end of the season. I hope i am wrong obviously.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#29 » by BlueSan » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:53 pm

They wont, but I also doubt they will be so terrible on the road in the future lol

Still I dont see Mavs winning more than 50% which iss clearly needed for Western POs
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#30 » by Lord Cuban » Sat Jan 5, 2019 3:07 am

Jesus... RC... Look how quick he called Harris for a sub when Doncic makes a mistake... His boys can make all kind of mistakes
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Re: Rick Carlisle is no longer a good coach and needs to be fired immediately 

Post#31 » by 2011Champs » Sat Jan 5, 2019 3:11 am

Lord Cuban wrote:Jesus... RC... Look how quick he called Harris for a sub when Doncic makes a mistake... His boys can make all kind of mistakes
its time to fire his stubborn a$$. I’m all for Donnie Nelson coaching this team until the end of the season.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#32 » by LIENT » Sat Jan 5, 2019 10:55 am

Lord Cuban wrote:Jesus... RC... Look how quick he called Harris for a sub when Doncic makes a mistake... His boys can make all kind of mistakes


Your disdain for RC and any perceived insult he makes towards Luka is a bit much. There were plenty of times benching Luka throughout today’s game was the right decision. Sometimes Luka pushes it too far and tries to do too much, ie hero ball; you can’t let a rookie continue to play like that just because they’re really skilled. It’s part of their development to pull them up and drill those mistakes out of them to make them truly great.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#33 » by Archx » Sat Jan 5, 2019 11:18 am

LIENT wrote:
Lord Cuban wrote:Jesus... RC... Look how quick he called Harris for a sub when Doncic makes a mistake... His boys can make all kind of mistakes


Your disdain for RC and any perceived insult he makes towards Luka is a bit much. There were plenty of times benching Luka throughout today’s game was the right decision. Sometimes Luka pushes it too far and tries to do too much, ie hero ball; you can’t let a rookie continue to play like that just because they’re really skilled. It’s part of their development to pull them up and drill those mistakes out of them to make them truly great.


Do you even see how DSJ, Wes, Barnes even Barea force things? Did you see their FG % etc? Barnes makes open baskets which is fine, and Luka tries to set him up many times.
Luka was trying to draw fouls while driving to the basket and not setting up for tough 3 point shots all night. But even when he was thrown into the stands he got no call again. It's not a development thing if a 19yo kid is trying to play the right way and veterans are all hovering around the 3pt line.

As far as his hero ball goes. He deserves it... what he has done so far, he really deserves to have some bone headed plays here and then.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#34 » by burek3 » Sat Jan 5, 2019 11:29 am

What to say... It was nice what they were trying to do for Dirk, unfortunately it didn't go as it should, the result was an ugly game. But yeah, road woes continue.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#35 » by LIENT » Sat Jan 5, 2019 11:32 am

Archx wrote:
LIENT wrote:
Lord Cuban wrote:Jesus... RC... Look how quick he called Harris for a sub when Doncic makes a mistake... His boys can make all kind of mistakes


Your disdain for RC and any perceived insult he makes towards Luka is a bit much. There were plenty of times benching Luka throughout today’s game was the right decision. Sometimes Luka pushes it too far and tries to do too much, ie hero ball; you can’t let a rookie continue to play like that just because they’re really skilled. It’s part of their development to pull them up and drill those mistakes out of them to make them truly great.


Do you even see how DSJ, Wes, Barnes even Barea force things? Did you see their FG % etc? Barnes makes open baskets which is fine, and Luka tries to set him up many times.
Luka was trying to draw fouls while driving to the basket and not setting up for tough 3 point shots all night. But even when he was thrown into the stands he got no call again. It's not a development thing if a 19yo kid is trying to play the right way and veterans are all hovering around the 3pt line.

As far as his hero ball goes. He deserves it... what he has done so far, he really deserves to have some bone headed plays here and then.


I think you misunderstood me. What I’m saying is, I’m ok with him being subbed out in his first season when he messes up, because I think it will develop him into a better player - knowing why he has been sat and changing his game next time to suit it. So that he doesn’t make that mistake again. This is how good players become great players, and eventually the best players. It should (and does) happen for DSJ too. Do I think he deserves the keys? Yeah. But I think it’s gonna be better for him long term this way. Now if this is happening in season 3, I’ll be right there with you lol.

As for Wes, Barnes and the others. They’re older vets and they get the liberty to stay on because of it. They’re replacing and sapping Lukas minutes. Again, I don’t wanna see this happening in a few years time. But for now, while he is still growing. It’s warranted imo.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#36 » by wolfram » Sat Jan 5, 2019 12:31 pm

You think Luka doesn't know when he messes up? How will he get experience and confidence of a superstar if they don't let him run the show? I hope they just sit him because of rest and b2b games.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#37 » by LIENT » Sat Jan 5, 2019 12:46 pm

wolfram wrote:You think Luka doesn't know when he messes up? How will he get experience and confidence of a superstar if they don't let him run the show? I hope they just sit him because of rest and b2b games.


You know who else looked good in their first year , was drafted at 1 and was left unchecked? Andrew Wiggins. Now look at him. Fourth year and at best you’re getting flashes (only flashes) of brilliance. At worst you’re getting 0/11 shooting.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#38 » by DJ_3_Ball » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:38 am

Listening to Carlisle being interviewed by Chuck Cooperstein before the Celtics game and the Lakers game, I found the following 2 comments odd. Before the Celtics game, Carlisle was talking about Irving being out and when Cooperstein said Morris was out, Carlisle said "Oh is that right? I didn't realize he was out too." Then before the Lakers game he talked about LeBron being out and then said "I don't know who else is out for the Lakers yet, I haven't looked..." Later Cooperstein would go on to list the remaining Lakers who were out.

I find it really odd that he doesn't know who is out for the opposing team. You would think that would effect strategy and starting lus/substitution patterns, etc. It lends more credence to the idea that Carlisle doesn't care who's playing for the other team or what's going on in the game, he's going to play group A of 5 players til this time and then group B of another 5 players til that time and work very robotic-ally.

I honestly don't think I've ever heard another coach when doing an interview and talking about an injured opponent say "Oh really? I didn't realize they were out." It seems like that's your job to know.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#39 » by Lord Cuban » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:49 am

Kleber sitting on the bench is a crime
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#40 » by Dirk » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:56 am

DJ_3_Ball wrote:Listening to Carlisle being interviewed by Chuck Cooperstein before the Celtics game and the Lakers game, I found the following 2 comments odd. Before the Celtics game, Carlisle was talking about Irving being out and when Cooperstein said Morris was out, Carlisle said "Oh is that right? I didn't realize he was out too." Then before the Lakers game he talked about LeBron being out and then said "I don't know who else is out for the Lakers yet, I haven't looked..." Later Cooperstein would go on to list the remaining Lakers who were out.

I find it really odd that he doesn't know who is out for the opposing team. You would think that would effect strategy and starting lus/substitution patterns, etc. It lends more credence to the idea that Carlisle doesn't care who's playing for the other team or what's going on in the game, he's going to play group A of 5 players til this time and then group B of another 5 players til that time and work very robotic-ally.

I honestly don't think I've ever heard another coach when doing an interview and talking about an injured opponent say "Oh really? I didn't realize they were out." It seems like that's your job to know.


Reminds me of the recent Steelers fiasco: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/28/steelers-keith-butler-forgot-tyler-eifert-injured-reserve/
43/17/13

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