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Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick

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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#41 » by 2011Champs » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:18 pm

When the coach publicly states in a post game interview paraphrasing that he doesn’t know about the advanced stats of what lineups are most effective it’s fairly obvious it’s time for him to part ways. In today’s league the eyeball test just isn’t enough in itself.
The only reason not to start Maxi is if Mavs are trying to showcase SmithJr and Wes for a trade and coming off the bench would hurt their value.
I also thought Carlisle was discounting Maxi’s blocks by calling them unconventional. Maybe it was praise but it sounded a bit backhanded in tone.
I don’t know wtf is going on? It’s just flat out bizarre.
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#42 » by DJ_3_Ball » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:47 pm

Dirk wrote:
DJ_3_Ball wrote:Listening to Carlisle being interviewed by Chuck Cooperstein before the Celtics game and the Lakers game, I found the following 2 comments odd. Before the Celtics game, Carlisle was talking about Irving being out and when Cooperstein said Morris was out, Carlisle said "Oh is that right? I didn't realize he was out too." Then before the Lakers game he talked about LeBron being out and then said "I don't know who else is out for the Lakers yet, I haven't looked..." Later Cooperstein would go on to list the remaining Lakers who were out.

I find it really odd that he doesn't know who is out for the opposing team. You would think that would effect strategy and starting lus/substitution patterns, etc. It lends more credence to the idea that Carlisle doesn't care who's playing for the other team or what's going on in the game, he's going to play group A of 5 players til this time and then group B of another 5 players til that time and work very robotic-ally.

I honestly don't think I've ever heard another coach when doing an interview and talking about an injured opponent say "Oh really? I didn't realize they were out." It seems like that's your job to know.


Reminds me of the recent Steelers fiasco: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/28/steelers-keith-butler-forgot-tyler-eifert-injured-reserve/


Hahaha! Yeah & that reminds me of Stephen A. Smith getting on First Take and talking about how Hunter Henry and Derrick Johnson were the players to watch in the Chiefs/Rams game that night. LOL!
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#43 » by Dirk » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:39 pm

2011Champs wrote:I also thought Carlisle was discounting Maxi’s blocks by calling them unconventional. Maybe it was praise but it sounded a bit backhanded in tone.


Not trying to defend RC, but trying to help not spread myths.

Think Carlisle was praising Maxi. “A lot of the situations happen where they drive the ball in and it doesn’t necessarily seem like a shot-blocking situation," said Carlisle of Maxi's work. "He can elevate. His shot-blocking ability is a bit unconventional, but it’s one of the things that make him unique.” Said he can play 3 positions.

Maxi is not conventional because he isn't selling out to block shots. Uses his body to stay in front of his man and by his own words surprises them because he just absorbs contact and instead of trying to take charge just jumps straight up. "I will not attempt any blocks that just end up hurting the team", his own words if I remember correctly.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#44 » by Torgeir Bryn » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:56 am

Dirk wrote:
2011Champs wrote:I also thought Carlisle was discounting Maxi’s blocks by calling them unconventional. Maybe it was praise but it sounded a bit backhanded in tone.


Not trying to defend RC, but trying to help not spread myths.

Think Carlisle was praising Maxi. “A lot of the situations happen where they drive the ball in and it doesn’t necessarily seem like a shot-blocking situation," said Carlisle of Maxi's work. "He can elevate. His shot-blocking ability is a bit unconventional, but it’s one of the things that make him unique.” Said he can play 3 positions.

Maxi is not conventional because he isn't selling out to block shots. Uses his body to stay in front of his man and by his own words surprises them because he just absorbs contact and instead of trying to take charge just jumps straight up. "I will not attempt any blocks that just end up hurting the team", his own words if I remember correctly.


Yeah, come on guys. Can we try to not interpret everything in the most negative way? Carlisle is clearly referring to how a lot of Kleber's blocks come from players going at him and challenging him at the rim, without realising how good of a shot blocker he is. It's not the typical weak side/police the paint kind of blocks, though he has a couple of those as well. I think most of us have observed this happening at least once a game whenever Kleber plays enough minutes, Locked on Mavs and others have discussed it plenty.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#45 » by BlueSan » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:17 pm

Every time Rick is on TV you feel like he just ate a lemon or something and get's annoyed by media questions a lot heh
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#46 » by Archx » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:33 pm

2011Champs wrote:When the coach publicly states in a post game interview paraphrasing that he doesn’t know about the advanced stats of what lineups are most effective it’s fairly obvious it’s time for him to part ways. In today’s league the eyeball test just isn’t enough in itself.
The only reason not to start Maxi is if Mavs are trying to showcase SmithJr and Wes for a trade and coming off the bench would hurt their value.
I also thought Carlisle was discounting Maxi’s blocks by calling them unconventional. Maybe it was praise but it sounded a bit backhanded in tone.
I don’t know wtf is going on? It’s just flat out bizarre.



I think that's a nice praise. At least we know he realizes how effective can Maxi be on defense. I think Rick meant that he can block a shot in the most unexpected way, just when you think you're safe there is Maxi :)
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#47 » by The Sparest » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:51 am

Archx wrote:
2011Champs wrote:When the coach publicly states in a post game interview paraphrasing that he doesn’t know about the advanced stats of what lineups are most effective it’s fairly obvious it’s time for him to part ways. In today’s league the eyeball test just isn’t enough in itself.
The only reason not to start Maxi is if Mavs are trying to showcase SmithJr and Wes for a trade and coming off the bench would hurt their value.
I also thought Carlisle was discounting Maxi’s blocks by calling them unconventional. Maybe it was praise but it sounded a bit backhanded in tone.
I don’t know wtf is going on? It’s just flat out bizarre.



I think that's a nice praise. At least we know he realizes how effective can Maxi be on defense. I think Rick meant that he can block a shot in the most unexpected way, just when you think you're safe there is Maxi :)

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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#48 » by Dirk » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:12 am

Good execution to start the quarter.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#49 » by burek3 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:00 pm

Dirk wrote:Good execution to start the quarter.
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But, but... He's too slow for NBA.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#50 » by Lord Cuban » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:03 am

Harris was hot and he benched him...
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#51 » by 2011Champs » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:55 am

Lord Cuban wrote:Harris was hot and he benched him...

That was so ignorant by coach. You never bench the hot hand in the 4th quarter in a close game.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#52 » by Dirk » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:08 pm

Matthews benched in the 4th quarter. Brunson not only played more minutes, but finished the game.

It is the biggest takeaway from this game.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#53 » by 2011Champs » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:43 pm

Dirk wrote:Matthews benched in the 4th quarter. Brunson not only played more minutes, but finished the game.

It is the biggest takeaway from this game.

Neither should have finished the game. Devin Harris should have stayed in. Another Carlisle fail.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#54 » by jpengland » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:29 pm

2011Champs wrote:
Dirk wrote:Matthews benched in the 4th quarter. Brunson not only played more minutes, but finished the game.

It is the biggest takeaway from this game.

Neither should have finished the game. Devin Harris should have stayed in. Another Carlisle fail.

Yep. Losing closely to arguably the best dynasty in history as the greatest shooter of all time drops 11 threes is a real terrible fail.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#55 » by 2011Champs » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:53 pm

jpengland wrote:
2011Champs wrote:
Dirk wrote:Matthews benched in the 4th quarter. Brunson not only played more minutes, but finished the game.

It is the biggest takeaway from this game.

Neither should have finished the game. Devin Harris should have stayed in. Another Carlisle fail.

Yep. Losing closely to arguably the best dynasty in history as the greatest shooter of all time drops 11 threes is a real terrible fail.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#56 » by 2011Champs » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:18 pm

Carlisle’s time is up. I think this SmithJr fiasco is the last
straw. I think Cuban and Donnie are searching harder for an interim coach for the rest of the season more than a SmithJr trade. It’s time to find a coach that has more patience with players. Free agents see what is happening in the SmithJr/Carlisle saga. This is where Cuban has to make the tough decision for the future.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#57 » by DJ_3_Ball » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:08 pm

My thing with Carlisle is I can't identify why he is a top 5 coach. Those who support Carlisle I would like to hear why you feel he is a top 5 coach. Granted, I am not an Xs & Os genius. My suspicion is NBA gurus look at the Mavs from afar and see Xs & Os type things Carlisle does and say he's great. Inbound plays at the end of the game or plays coming out of timeouts, etc. If that's it, then I'm sure he is very good.

I see a guy who is standoffish with the media, a borderline prick the few times I've heard him interviewed on The Ticket. A very cocky guy, like doing interviews are a waste of his time, and maybe they are, but you wonder if he doesn't have a similar personality towards younger players behind closed doors.

Granted he has never had much to work with, but what young players has he ever developed? He's been here 11 years. I cannot name one. Roddy B was a failure. Jae Crowder played better when he left Dallas and so did Shane Larkin. He didn't do much to try and develop Jared Cunningham. Until Barea went down, Brunson was pretty much riding the bench.

Lastly, Poppovich is thought of as a hard ass, but as nasty as things got between Kawhi & the Spurs organization last season, Pop & Kawhi still maintained a good relationship. Doesn't seem like Carlisle knows how to do that.

I'm all for ending the Carlisle era in Dallas. Maybe the not drafting 1st round players has been by design due to Carlisle's views of young players. I don't think Carlisle has been an asset in attracting FAs to Dallas. I don't want to lose any more young talent because of a coach who can draw up some Xs & Os. I use to be worried about finding another coach as good as Carlisle, but at this point, I'm ready to roll the dice.
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#58 » by BlueSan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:22 pm

Here is my take on the whole R.C. saga

1.
I / We have way too less of info to be a good judge of what exactly is happening, which is something to keep in mind before you read anything what I am about to say bellow.

2.
When I am rating a coach or a basketball player and so on, I will try to be as objective as possible on the matter and look at things that I believe are objectiely speaking important for the Coach to have when evaluating his work and his value. The main things I will look at are
- What are the strategic choices the coach is making
- What are tactical choices the coach is making
- How the coach is MANAGING a team and the players
- How the coach is developing players
- What is the aura the coach gives


I''ll now touch on the above aspects and try to explain what I mean with those and how I see R.C. when comparing

3. STRATEGIC CHOICES THE COACH MAKES
- When we are talking about strategy we are talking about long term planning
A coach together with the owner, GM and his own staff needs to come up with a plan and needs to in some way influence the strategy of a team, so even though a GM will end up doing the shopping for the coach, the coach can definitely and should definitely give the GM tips about what he would like to have on his team and how he sees the pieces he currently has falling into place.
There is some kind of an image of a coach just working with the pieces the GM is giving to him and while a big chunk of that is actually true, and GM definitely has to devote a lot more time to the overall strategy of the FRANCHISE, the coach needs to be involved in this and present his own STRATEGY of A TEAM (maybe in some sense even the franchise, but mostly THE TEAM)
- I personally believe Rick has/is doing that, you can see he does have a clear philosophy and you can see that is being executed on the court as well.
Things as center with a PnR ability which matches the skillset of Luka, things like, the way the Mavs are generally playing, the amount of plays he prepares for his offense... this is R.C. system and it is part of his bigger strategy he has for this team. I dont see many faults here with R.C. in fact I think the general strategy is clear and reasonably well thought out when it comes to the Mavs.

4. TACTICAL CHOICES THE COACH MAKES
- When we are talking about tactics, we are talking about short term planning and decisions on the spot.
- This is where R.C. is often getting the flak for and here I will not jump to his defense personally. He does react to things, as we have seen with handling Dirk, Maxi and so on, but for me personally those are too slow, to be considered good enough. He does react to things and sees them, so I cannot say his tactical decision making is necessarly bad or none existent or some crap like that, but I will definitely say that his reactions in regards to the team as a whole are slow.
The other part of the tactics is decision making on the spot, which means changing the game on the spot, taking the time outs, getting yourself thrown out of the game if needed and so on. Here again I cannot and will not take him for someone who is not doing those things, but I would definitely like to see quicker and better reactions and I will not agree with his decision making where he will pull players who are playing really well on the bench ahead of what I would consider appropriate timing and so on. Again I would not rate him as bad or even average on this, but I definitely cannot grant him some superior tactical coaching here. At least I dont acknowledge it.

5. How the Coach is MANAGING A TEAM and the PLAYERS
- What I mean with this is probably the single most important thing in basketball that a coach can have and is maybe underrated. The best coach in my personal opinion will be able to bring the best out of his players and can turn an average team into a good one, or make an average player given the right role look excelent out there. This is something I will personally immediately say about Stevens, or Popovich. If you believe scary Terry, Brown and so on are so amazing that without Irving and Hayward they managed to almost make the finals than that is fine. What I believe however is that the coach last year brought the best out of those players in the given situation and given them the environment in which they could succeed and display the best they have to offer in that point in time and same goes for Pop.
It means that you as a coach need to find first a suited role for your players, it means you need to manage egos while you do it, it means you need to convince them that they believe in your system and it means you need to hide their weaknesses and bring out their strengths as much as possible and in the end package it all and present it to the crowd come game night.
This is where I dont see Rick particularly shining and again I will not say he is bad at it, in fact I believe he is above average in it.
Making Barnes what he is today, I believe he played a big role in that, making Doncic showing what he is showing in this moment I think is again also R.C. playing part in that story, but also DSJ and his management, as management of Maxi Kleber and the rest...well that also falls under that category, so again I will not say R.C. is bad at it, but I will not say he is great at it also.

6. HOW THE COACH IS DEVELOPING PLAYERS
- This is actually an area where I will step back and let you guys who have been around Mavs for a lot longer than I to say. I cannot in all honesty be the judge of that, I can just go by what you are saying.
I can only speak for this season:
- He has managed Doncic well enough till now
- He is managing Brunson well enough till now although now injuries will play a huge part in this and you could see a scenario where Barea would simply take away a lot of those minutes Brunson would need and probably would deserve from the developing+production point of view
- Kostas...no idea just started
- Spalding no idea just started
So really no comment on this you be the judge of that, but again people like Popovich are a PRIME example of how you develop players and you basically become a factory of producing great talent

7. WHAT IS THE AURA THE COACH GIVES
- This is the last one and the least tangible, but I find it to be important
- All the jazz I said above about managing the players...if you have a great aura on you, you can be sure a player will trust you and in your way of working a lot more. If you will be able to come down to his own level of thinking make sure he can relate to you and you to him, if you will turn the negatives into positives...it will help you a lot.
I remember from the days of when I played basketball and looking back I am looking at the coaches and was seeing first hand how different coaches were handling for instance Dragič brothers, also one of my first coaches also was the first coach who trained Dončič and I will tell you the following.
The coaches which DONT HAVE THE IT factor, the aura...are not able to bring the best out of their players. I'll give you example of the coach that later trained Dončič and before trained me and Dragič and his aura. We were playing a game and it wasnt even an important match or anything. On one play he literally slammed his hand against the supporting pillar of the gym and broke his hand. Suffice to say it is funny when you talk about it now and other things that coach was doing. But his aura was among other things, making sure, we are taking things seriously and sure enough it got our focus back on track in that game hah
The coaches who dont have the IT, and cant handle the media also are bringing some clouds over their own team and I personally think from what I see.
1) I dont know what is the aura the coach is giving to the players, the parts I see arent really spectacular, I remember this one footage I saw of coach R.C. mentioning DSJ shoes and making the lemon joke comment about it, I found it odd and out of place, like a guy who wants to get close to this younger generation but comes a bit off and weird when doing it haha
2) I can however comment on how Rick is handling the media and what his aura is there and I would personally rate it as a really bad one.
He gives the impression as every single question is like answering the question at the police station when you have to point out the murder of your entire family...He sincerely gives that impression and how he is handling all the Dončič buzz and those questions, while I do see some sense in him not wanting it to go to Luka's head or to create some kind of jealousy within the team, he is managing it so poorly that in the end if you are Luka looking at that you almost see it as not giving you the credit for some of the things you do and so on.
With the DSJ thing in New Orleans, now that we look back at it, I can say it even more direct and with confidence, he was trying to cover for DSJ and that play in the end, but again I think he could have handled it a lot lot better when asked the question. Best coaches, best leaders will give you the truth but will give it in such a way it will not bring you to tears or dispair, those who will try to cover it and later on you will find out about stuff happening...those will see the effect of **** hitting the fan quickly.

So my take on R.C and whether or not I would replace him?

1. I dont have enough information
2. But from that information that I have I would still give him till the end of this season first and see how things turn out (he is definitely not so bad that you need to launch him off this team ASAP with a catapult)
3. After this season, if I still see signs of the above, yes I would reevaluate and maybe think about changing the coach if things dont improve. But again, only if I have a good option and only if it warrants a change in the coaching staff.

I would not change R.C. as of now based on the above.


Sorry once again for this long post and props to anyone reading....
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Re: Carlisle dartboard - All Things Rick 

Post#59 » by burek3 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:54 am

So yeah, about drawing plays out of timeouts for Powell to shoot threes...
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Re: Rick Carlisle is a Great Coach but he needs to change his approach for games... 

Post#60 » by Lowtech801 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:53 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:Listening to Carlisle being interviewed by Chuck Cooperstein before the Celtics game and the Lakers game, I found the following 2 comments odd. Before the Celtics game, Carlisle was talking about Irving being out and when Cooperstein said Morris was out, Carlisle said "Oh is that right? I didn't realize he was out too." Then before the Lakers game he talked about LeBron being out and then said "I don't know who else is out for the Lakers yet, I haven't looked..." Later Cooperstein would go on to list the remaining Lakers who were out.

I find it really odd that he doesn't know who is out for the opposing team. You would think that would effect strategy and starting lus/substitution patterns, etc. It lends more credence to the idea that Carlisle doesn't care who's playing for the other team or what's going on in the game, he's going to play group A of 5 players til this time and then group B of another 5 players til that time and work very robotic-ally.

I honestly don't think I've ever heard another coach when doing an interview and talking about an injured opponent say "Oh really? I didn't realize they were out." It seems like that's your job to know.
I thought those interviews are pre-recorded and can excuse carlisle of not knowing exactly who's in and who's out at that time. During the regular season you don't game plan around other teams anyways. There's not enough practice time to do that.

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