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Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic

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Would you trade DSJ for

Poll ended at Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:20 am

Yes, Bamba
14
27%
Yes, Isaac
19
37%
Yes, J.Jackson
3
6%
No, I wouldn't trade him for any of these.
16
31%
 
Total votes: 52

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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#101 » by Dirk » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:38 am

stilldropin20 wrote:

SD,

I appreciate your unbelievable enthusiasm for Luka. It's great for you that you have felt that connection because at the end of the day sports are just another form of entertainment. And this guy is pure art in motion.

With that said, do double check some of the things you say and what your expectations are, because considering you think so highly of him, you will be a very easy target for others (specifically on the general board).

For instance, "Let me be clear: Luka Doncic is a once in a lifetime generational type player like Bird, Magic, MJ, Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. He is that good right now...which make him a "win now" type of player."

This kind of statement will inevitably generate A TON of push-back and leave you in a tough spot with all the quotes you will generate.

As for your trade, I think the value is really really really far off. The Mavs don't really have the assets to trade for Butler. Don't even entertain that idea to be honest, unless there was another falling out with Butler and his current team. But if that happened, you'd basically be saying "we are going to get a guy who was a bad presence on two teams and we are going to hand him a huge contract as well, 140 million - 190 million, into his thirties".

The Kawhi ideal is at least possible if you believe the Mavs can do what they have never been able to do and land a big fish in free agency.

LIENT wrote:

You know, Rondo did pop up in my head lately with this thing. Obviously, things are very different, he was a veteran 'floor general' with a winning pedigree. DSJ is a raw young player. But yeah... I have mellowed down slightly on the Rondo thing. By the way, I uploaded a video on youtube when Rondo had that game against the Rockets where "he quit".



Just checked, 6 million views. Just hilarious to me how I still get notifications of comments and discussion on it - I never checked them. I just remember how early in the game I saw Rondo's body language and attitude, I immediately could tell he was purposely not giving his best effort.

DSJ - labelled a chucker, ball hog among other things by various "experts" around RealGM has never generated any sense in me that he was a bad guy, malcontent or even selfish. I have watched every single minute of his NBA career. So until I see something different, I will give him that credit and I fully understand how tough it must be to see that your team does not really do much to prevent rumours from circling around with your name attached all year. And it culminates with the woj tweet.

By the way, I can't say I ever saw RC show signs of "not liking" DSJ or "treating him badly". So the whole thing is really confusing to me. My "ideal scenario" would have bee if DSJ's camp just wanted to go somewhere else since they see the writing on the wall in Dallas. If that is not the case and the guy was actually buying into working on his game to complement Luka's while they were on the floor together, I really have a tough time seeing an angle where the Mavs come off looking well on this. DSJ didn't have a ton of value to begin with, so it always made more sense to work with him.

As you say, it's pretty much pointless to speculate at this point, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset with how this whole thing has been handled. I will revise this situation when it 'ends', because this team hasn't really done a good job "rebuilding" or having a philosophy about what they wanted to do. They redeemed themselves with the trade with the Hawks, but in the recent years, they made so many mistakes and had the team literally in the middle of nowhere, that a thing like this, where they tank the value of their 18' #9th pick is alarming. For those fans who have witnessed all these recent 'bad season', it is not fun to see that one year you see a team promoting a young guy and the next they just kick him to the curb without properly investing, evaluating and giving him a fair chance. Not a good sign for the future 'management' of this team.

This is why I have always wondered how the decision making worked with the Mavs and if every 'branch' bought into the plan. We all remember how we were playing old folks when we should have been playing young players and enhancing the odds at the lottery, so I always wondering if the HC was buying in to the rebuilding plan or not --- that was the time to move in a different direction at HC, going with a fresh new mind that was committed to the plan.

Tl; dr no point reading more on this soap opera. I quit like Rondo did.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#102 » by 2011Champs » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:04 pm

Maybe Mavs could make a deal with Cleveland?

Harrison Barnes + Dennis SmithJr for Kevin Love + Rodney Hood ?

I just don’t know if Cleveland would bite? It seems like Barnes for Love would be a no brainer for them if they want to unload Love’s contract but does DSJ still have enough value to net Rodney Hood?
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#103 » by Archx » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:20 pm

2011Champs wrote:Maybe Mavs could make a deal with Cleveland?

Harrison Barnes + Dennis SmithJr for Kevin Love + Rodney Hood ?

I just don’t know if Cleveland would bite? It seems like Barnes for Love would be a no brainer for them if they want to unload Love’s contract but does DSJ still have enough value to net Rodney Hood?


But Love is always injured, what do you benefit from that trade? Barnes at least gives you minutes. And don't know about Hood. Rather keep a young energetic DSJ and hope for the best. But he is also not playing a lot lately so we can't even see if him and LD can develop any kind of relationship on the court. So far it wasn't that good but they need way more experience playing together.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#104 » by 2011Champs » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:44 pm

Archx wrote:
2011Champs wrote:Maybe Mavs could make a deal with Cleveland?

Harrison Barnes + Dennis SmithJr for Kevin Love + Rodney Hood ?

I just don’t know if Cleveland would bite? It seems like Barnes for Love would be a no brainer for them if they want to unload Love’s contract but does DSJ still have enough value to net Rodney Hood?


But Love is always injured, what do you benefit from that trade? Barnes at least gives you minutes. And don't know about Hood. Rather keep a young energetic DSJ and hope for the best. But he is also not playing a lot lately so we can't even see if him and LD can develop any kind of relationship on the court. So far it wasn't that good but they need way more experience playing together.
Mavs would be gaining a stretch 4/5 that can score and rebound at an all star level. He would be a vast improvement over playing Barnes at 4. He rebounds around the same rate as Jordan but can stretch the floor. He has played like 60ish games past two seasons, not ideal. Rodney Hood is a good wing to take a flyer on.

I agree that I’d much rather keep DSJ but from everything I hear at least from local broadcasters is that he has already played his last game for Dallas. I’d rather turn him into a few good players than dump him to some team for a spare and a 2nd round pick.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#105 » by Lowtech801 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:39 pm

Luka_be_Dope wrote:No way would I trade DSJ for a poor mans Blake Griffin (Gordon), wheelchair wannabe (Isaac), or a 2017 Mustang with a 302 from a '67 and no tires (Jackson).

Someone mentioned Beal, however, which is an intriguing idea, but I doubt Washington would do it unless they're packing it in and taking back Matthew's and using the stretch provision on Wall.

Someone else mentioned Kris Dunn...he is a serviceable PG...but I'd hope for a little more than serviceable in any trade return.

Honestly, if they do trade DSJ, the best value they can hope for is a top 15 pick...which I'd be more okay with than any of the names I've heard mentioned, aside from Beal.

Bottom line, it's stupid to trade DSJ, but the rumors are coming from somewhere and no one is denying it...so I guess it is what it is.
Wahsington would be able to get.much more for beal. I'd love if true though.

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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#106 » by Lowtech801 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:58 pm

Dirk wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:

SD,

I appreciate your unbelievable enthusiasm for Luka. It's great for you that you have felt that connection because at the end of the day sports are just another form of entertainment. And this guy is pure art in motion.

With that said, do double check some of the things you say and what your expectations are, because considering you think so highly of him, you will be a very easy target for others (specifically on the general board).

For instance, "Let me be clear: Luka Doncic is a once in a lifetime generational type player like Bird, Magic, MJ, Lebron, Kawhi, Steph, KD. He is that good right now...which make him a "win now" type of player."

This kind of statement will inevitably generate A TON of push-back and leave you in a tough spot with all the quotes you will generate.

As for your trade, I think the value is really really really far off. The Mavs don't really have the assets to trade for Butler. Don't even entertain that idea to be honest, unless there was another falling out with Butler and his current team. But if that happened, you'd basically be saying "we are going to get a guy who was a bad presence on two teams and we are going to hand him a huge contract as well, 140 million - 190 million, into his thirties".

The Kawhi ideal is at least possible if you believe the Mavs can do what they have never been able to do and land a big fish in free agency.

LIENT wrote:

You know, Rondo did pop up in my head lately with this thing. Obviously, things are very different, he was a veteran 'floor general' with a winning pedigree. DSJ is a raw young player. But yeah... I have mellowed down slightly on the Rondo thing. By the way, I uploaded a video on youtube when Rondo had that game against the Rockets where "he quit".



Just checked, 6 million views. Just hilarious to me how I still get notifications of comments and discussion on it - I never checked them. I just remember how early in the game I saw Rondo's body language and attitude, I immediately could tell he was purposely not giving his best effort.

DSJ - labelled a chucker, ball hog among other things by various "experts" around RealGM has never generated any sense in me that he was a bad guy, malcontent or even selfish. I have watched every single minute of his NBA career. So until I see something different, I will give him that credit and I fully understand how tough it must be to see that your team does not really do much to prevent rumours from circling around with your name attached all year. And it culminates with the woj tweet.

By the way, I can't say I ever saw RC show signs of "not liking" DSJ or "treating him badly". So the whole thing is really confusing to me. My "ideal scenario" would have bee if DSJ's camp just wanted to go somewhere else since they see the writing on the wall in Dallas. If that is not the case and the guy was actually buying into working on his game to complement Luka's while they were on the floor together, I really have a tough time seeing an angle where the Mavs come off looking well on this. DSJ didn't have a ton of value to begin with, so it always made more sense to work with him.

As you say, it's pretty much pointless to speculate at this point, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset with how this whole thing has been handled. I will revise this situation when it 'ends', because this team hasn't really done a good job "rebuilding" or having a philosophy about what they wanted to do. They redeemed themselves with the trade with the Hawks, but in the recent years, they made so many mistakes and had the team literally in the middle of nowhere, that a thing like this, where they tank the value of their 18' #9th pick is alarming. For those fans who have witnessed all these recent 'bad season', it is not fun to see that one year you see a team promoting a young guy and the next they just kick him to the curb without properly investing, evaluating and giving him a fair chance. Not a good sign for the future 'management' of this team.

This is why I have always wondered how the decision making worked with the Mavs and if every 'branch' bought into the plan. We all remember how we were playing old folks when we should have been playing young players and enhancing the odds at the lottery, so I always wondering if the HC was buying in to the rebuilding plan or not --- that was the time to move in a different direction at HC, going with a fresh new mind that was committed to the plan.

Tl; dr no point reading more on this soap opera. I quit like Rondo did.
The head coach's job is to try and win every game possible. Blame the fo for not getting ridding of the older vets so Carlisle would have to play the young guys.

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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#107 » by fuller4379 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:26 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#108 » by DJ_3_Ball » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:25 pm

BlueSan wrote:Would feel terrible.

Maxi is an important piece to the Mavs for a number of reasons.

1. One is strategic one, as it leaves the Mavs completely naked on the "center" position after DJ finishes this season and his contract ends, which means Mavs are in a tight position, keeping Kleber leaves them less exposed.

2. Second is the energy Maxi brings to the team

3. Third is the development he is showing and as a big man who can be dangerous from 3 pt that is an extra benefit!

So no I would definitely not do it


If you're talking about you wouldn't do Kleber for Gordon straight up, then just being blunt that is a homer decision. I am like you. I am worried that Kleber can develop into a very good player. I think he is already a good backup. But, when Maxi shows a little spring in his step and recovers for a block, it's wow! pretty good for a non-drafted guy out of Dirk's hometown that we all just thought was for show. When Gordon throws down a monster slam capable of being done with only the highest level of athleticism, that's real deal #4 overall pick territory.

There's a reason they had different paths to the NBA. To be pretend otherwise is just having your blue & silver shades on too tight.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#109 » by fuller4379 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:28 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
BlueSan wrote:Would feel terrible.

Maxi is an important piece to the Mavs for a number of reasons.

1. One is strategic one, as it leaves the Mavs completely naked on the "center" position after DJ finishes this season and his contract ends, which means Mavs are in a tight position, keeping Kleber leaves them less exposed.

2. Second is the energy Maxi brings to the team

3. Third is the development he is showing and as a big man who can be dangerous from 3 pt that is an extra benefit!

So no I would definitely not do it


If you're talking about you wouldn't do Kleber for Gordon straight up, then just being blunt that is a homer decision. I am like you. I am worried that Kleber can develop into a very good player. I think he is already a good backup. But, when Maxi shows a little spring in his step and recovers for a block, it's wow! pretty good for a non-drafted guy out of Dirk's hometown that we all just thought was for show. When Gordon throws down a monster slam capable of being done with only the highest level of athleticism, that's real deal #4 overall pick territory.

There's a reason they had different paths to the NBA. To be pretend otherwise is just having your blue & silver shades on too tight.


Unless you don't like Gordon making $21 million per year, you trade Kleber + expiring for Gordon in a heartbeat. Kleber is a very low ceiling player. He provides a spark off the bench and great hustle, but he is currently about all he will ever become. Gordon is a very high ceiling player with much more athleticism.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#110 » by BlueSan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:04 pm

Meanwhile
Read on Twitter


Whatever happens, no one can blame us for lack of drama lol
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#111 » by LIENT » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:39 pm

Dirk wrote:
LIENT wrote:

You know, Rondo did pop up in my head lately with this thing. Obviously, things are very different, he was a veteran 'floor general' with a winning pedigree. DSJ is a raw young player. But yeah... I have mellowed down slightly on the Rondo thing. By the way, I uploaded a video on youtube when Rondo had that game against the Rockets where "he quit".



Just checked, 6 million views. Just hilarious to me how I still get notifications of comments and discussion on it - I never checked them. I just remember how early in the game I saw Rondo's body language and attitude, I immediately could tell he was purposely not giving his best effort.

DSJ - labelled a chucker, ball hog among other things by various "experts" around RealGM has never generated any sense in me that he was a bad guy, malcontent or even selfish. I have watched every single minute of his NBA career. So until I see something different, I will give him that credit and I fully understand how tough it must be to see that your team does not really do much to prevent rumours from circling around with your name attached all year. And it culminates with the woj tweet.

By the way, I can't say I ever saw RC show signs of "not liking" DSJ or "treating him badly". So the whole thing is really confusing to me. My "ideal scenario" would have bee if DSJ's camp just wanted to go somewhere else since they see the writing on the wall in Dallas. If that is not the case and the guy was actually buying into working on his game to complement Luka's while they were on the floor together, I really have a tough time seeing an angle where the Mavs come off looking well on this. DSJ didn't have a ton of value to begin with, so it always made more sense to work with him.

As you say, it's pretty much pointless to speculate at this point, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset with how this whole thing has been handled. I will revise this situation when it 'ends', because this team hasn't really done a good job "rebuilding" or having a philosophy about what they wanted to do. They redeemed themselves with the trade with the Hawks, but in the recent years, they made so many mistakes and had the team literally in the middle of nowhere, that a thing like this, where they tank the value of their 18' #9th pick is alarming. For those fans who have witnessed all these recent 'bad season', it is not fun to see that one year you see a team promoting a young guy and the next they just kick him to the curb without properly investing, evaluating and giving him a fair chance. Not a good sign for the future 'management' of this team.

This is why I have always wondered how the decision making worked with the Mavs and if every 'branch' bought into the plan. We all remember how we were playing old folks when we should have been playing young players and enhancing the odds at the lottery, so I always wondering if the HC was buying in to the rebuilding plan or not --- that was the time to move in a different direction at HC, going with a fresh new mind that was committed to the plan.

Tl; dr no point reading more on this soap opera. I quit like Rondo did.


Good assessment. Yeah, I don't want to relive the Rondo months either haha. They were painful, but for a sad reason. Rondo was (and still is tbh) one of my favourite players of the last 20 years. I wish it could have been different.

Like you, don't think RC has ever purposefully held back any Mavericks career or treated them badly. Such a thing is pretty rotten, and I've never seen any evidence of him doing it in all the games I've watched. As you said, you can read the body language of these things if they're there and I've just never seen it. However, when it comes to Rick, I paint him as a guy who is trying to do the right thing no matter what and trying to win the best way he thinks how. SOMETIMES, this can rub guys the wrong way, particularly people who are yet to learn what it means to put your opinions aside and ego aside, and fully trust somebody else. That can sometimes cause issues, and I think that is sometimes what happens with out guys. With Rondo especially I think that's what happened; Rondo is a championship player and an elite PG (one of the best) with an extremely high IQ. To suggest he could turn off his brain and follow somebody else's - it's just a bad fit unfortunately.

That's why I drew the parallel with DSJ. Except it's a little different, it's not so much about elite PG experience and more about youth. DSJ I paint as a guy who takes a while to get it, but eventually WILL. He isn't reluctant to learn, he is totally willing. But it takes time. That's OK - he has NBA level talent and athleticism, he just needs to get the IQ. Ordinarily this is an OK situation and happens all the time in the NBA. But as has been touched on, the Mavs are suddenly in win now mode, which we are definitely not accustomed too. Rumours are floating about. Luka is taking the spotlight. Our flaws are in the spotlight because of Luka. The Woj tweets, the tweets probably coming out to spread fake news. It's a total **** storm and it makes it harder for DSJ and Rick. That is a lot to drop on a 20/21 year old guy and I wouldn't expect anybody to handle it well. The microscope being on DSJ is amplifying the situation - a situation that might not even be there.

In summary to the above - I think outside factors are influencing perception of DSJ and RCs relationship in the same way we picked apart Rondo and RCs. Except now, all the expectation and anticipation of whether this rook will turn out are blown up and added on top of it. It's a recipe for disaster for a young kid.

Also - the Mavs have a history of making poor decisions regarding player management. I thought we were on the mend too after picking up DSJ, then trading for Luka on Draft Night. And you know what? I think we are still on track. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest we AREN'T - yet. No bad trades. No stupid on-court drama. Good solid play from ALL of our guys - DFS, Jalen, Maxi etc. Professionalism in and out of the organisation - Cuban owning up to, apologising for and cleaning up head office after the unfortunate history of sexual harassment in the head office. And now the recent reports to reinforce that we are backing DSJ.

With all that mind, my final take is - the DSJ trade rumours and "resentment" that was previously reported on is fake news by other organisations trying to snipe him while we are trying to figure this whole thing out.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#112 » by personanongrata » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:44 pm

Kawhi has shown them the way. To force a trade simply refuse to play. Owners absolutely have to have legal means of redress for these situations included in the next CBA.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#113 » by BlueSan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:59 pm

Yes but there is a difference, actually a few of them

1. Kawahi was an established superstar so if he doesnt play he still has this huge value and will get paid
2. DSJ is a sophomore who wants to prove himself
3. Kawahi was on his final year aftr that fiasco
4. Dallas can make sure DSJ doesnt play a game for another few years literally ending his career with that

So in other words if you would really want to play hard ball DSJ would lose in that battle hard

But let us not go into those pathetic situations, especially because I dont think they will happen.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#114 » by HMFFL » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:38 am

The writing is on the wall for DSJ. He won't be here after the trade deadline or maybe even after the All-Star break. He continues to sit with an Illness. Interesting!

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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#115 » by Absinthe » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:47 am

The front office completely bungled this. They’re saying that they want to patch things up because it is very obvious they’re not going to get anything of value in a trade.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#116 » by wco81 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:14 am

HMFFL wrote:The writing is on the wall for DSJ. He won't be here after the trade deadline or maybe even after the All-Star break. He continues to sit with an Illness. Interesting!

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Wasn't there a rumored rift with Carlisle?

They want this to be Luka's team -- and it is whether or not DSJ accepts it.

But trying to trade him midway through his second season may appear like a panicked move and teams may just wait it out to see if Dallas' demands drop.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#117 » by DJ_3_Ball » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:56 am

fuller4379 wrote:Unless you don't like Gordon making $21 million per year, you trade Kleber + expiring for Gordon in a heartbeat. Kleber is a very low ceiling player. He provides a spark off the bench and great hustle, but he is currently about all he will ever become. Gordon is a very high ceiling player with much more athleticism.


I could not disagree more regarding Kleber. This is a soon-to-be 27 year old who didn't really start playing basketball until he was 21. He only had one serious competitive season of basketball before playing in the NBA last season. I don't consider the Bundesliga league preparation for the NBA. The ACB yes.

So, we're talking about a guy in year 3 of his professional basketball career, for all intents & purposes, and he's blossoming. Showing us more than he's ever shown before & Carlisle keeps jacking with his minutes, and yet he still responds.

How can you say he doesn't have room for improvement, that he is all he will ever be?

What's the real difference between Pascal Siakam and Maxi Kleber? (And I'm referring to their late development)
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#118 » by burek3 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:14 am

I feel like Dennis is a prisoner of his agent. At 21 you're still an impressionable individual, so kinda sad for him that other people are crapping on his career.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#119 » by Jstock12 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:38 am

DSJ is a loser. He wants to go to a team where he's the best player - where the hell is that? He's certainly not good enough to be the best player on a slightly below average team like the Mavs. Heck, he wouldn't even be the best player on some of the crappiest teams. DSJ should take a good look in the mirror and realize that he's light years away from Doncic in terms of overall talent.
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Re: Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic 

Post#120 » by arkuo » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:57 am

Jstock12 wrote:DSJ is a loser. He wants to go to a team where he's the best player - where the hell is that? He's certainly not good enough to be the best player on a slightly below average team like the Mavs. Heck, he wouldn't even be the best player on some of the crappiest teams. DSJ should take a good look in the mirror and realize that he's light years away from Doncic in terms of overall talent.


He's 21 and seems like being controlled by his agent who's looking for a maximum contract for DSJ in the future and not to play second fiddle to Luka Doncic. 3&D guys dont get paid much and his agent seems to be pulling the strings by not making him attend practice.

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