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Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1)

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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#661 » by Teffer10 » Sat Aug 8, 2020 6:17 pm

It's really going to be tough for the Mavs to vastly improve or get a legit 3rd option player via trade considering the assets we have in comparison with other teams.
Considering Donnie's strength as a GM seems to be improving the roster through trades, I'm thinking the Mavs will dangle the two picks for a somewhat proven veteran.
Jrue Holiday might be a good target for the Mavs but I'm not sure what it would take or how Donnie could get it done.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#662 » by ejs78 » Sat Aug 8, 2020 8:08 pm

At 31 Id take Tyler Bey.

The D/Hustle are already there just need the 3.
Teffer10 wrote:
ejs78 wrote:I'm in on Green and both the Beys.

Really hope the Mavs just draft both picks unless something they cant resist falls in their lap. 2 solid picks could easily eat into DFS role and eliminate Jackson.

FA wise no splash needs to be made this summer nor do I think they'll have the money depending on THjr

This is year 2 of a rebuild which I fully don't think will be near completion until after 2021 FA. Have patience and hope the FO doesn't make panic moves.
Mike lorenzo wrote:I like the businesses you publish. I'm not sure they can be done Why would Bulls eat Delon's extra year without incentives I'm not sure # 18 # 31 will get you that far down, I think # 7 or # 11 prefer Vassell too ... maybe we can get to # 14 and catch someone like Bey


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Yeah, I'm thinking Green should be our guy if we keep our pick.
I'd definitely trade both picks for Vassell but Green would be a great fit from the beginning and has a tremendous upside.
He's a great defender with good size and strength who can guard at least 3 positions and extremely athletic which is something our SL could use. His shooting will have to improve but he is a good ball handler and has the potential to become a nice 2nd option playmaker. He's one of few projected in the middle to late round of the draft with real star potential.

I wouldn't touch either of the Beys with our picks. No upside and most likely role player potential which we have a roster full of those.

I still like Reed as our 2nd round pick and we might be able to trade back to get him and perhaps pickup another pick.


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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#663 » by Mike lorenzo » Sun Aug 9, 2020 11:00 am

Guys believe Burke will follow next year?
1+1=11
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#664 » by Mike lorenzo » Sun Aug 9, 2020 11:15 am

no assets for big moves ... I don't really see Mavs selecting 2 rookies either White (Spurs) looks like a realistic target Gordon I like It would be a great fit, but paying Powell / Gordon € 29 combined in the long run for a similar role is not a good idea.
1+1=11
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#665 » by arkuo » Sun Aug 9, 2020 11:19 am

Mike lorenzo wrote:no assets for big moves ... I don't really see Mavs selecting 2 rookies either White (Spurs) looks like a realistic target Gordon I like It would be a great fit, but paying Powell / Gordon € 29 combined in the long run for a similar role is not a good idea.


that's the price Cuban pays to keep his pride than admit the Rondo trade was a mistake.

Dallas needs an insurance policy at PF or C as well as KP is still not doing back to back games.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#666 » by Michaellam1987 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 1:40 pm

I think our main focus for the coming draft and FA should be 3&D wing and also additional ball handler, that can generate some offense by himself. Realistic FA targets which can still fit us age-wise may include Alec Burks, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Kris Dunn, Derrick Jones Jr. It is rather difficult for any significant upgrade on our roster, given that we are short of any useful assets to do the trade. 4/5 position is actually quite occupied if Powell can come back healthy, and WCS opts in to stay 1 more year.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#667 » by Teffer10 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 1:59 pm

Mike lorenzo wrote:Guys believe Burke will follow next year?

If they can sign him on a nice deal then they should bring him back.
At very minimum he takes Barea's place but he could also make Curry and Brunson available for trades as well.

Burke seems to be very comfortable in our system and is fitting in well but if we can't keep him I'd love to see the Mavs pick up Markus Howard if he somehow doesn't get drafted. That guy can flat out score and could become an incredible spark off the bench if you need buckets in a hurry similar as "The Microwave" Vinnie Johnson did for the Pistons way back when.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#668 » by jpengland » Sun Aug 9, 2020 9:14 pm

I'm more and more frustrated with the Dwight Powell signing.

Outside of that, our books look immense (Wright is likely movable on that 8m deal)

Kleber, DFS and Curry locked in for a combined 20m per is outstanding work. That's 3 guys who can be top 7 or 8 players on a championship roster for 20m.

If we can keep those 3, dump the rest and pick up a max free agent, that leaves us 6 quality guys deep and just looking at filling gaps with exceptions, draft picks and minimums.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#669 » by Teffer10 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 9:48 pm

jpengland wrote:I'm more and more frustrated with the Dwight Powell signing.

Outside of that, our books look immense (Wright is likely movable on that 8m deal)

Kleber, DFS and Curry locked in for a combined 20m per is outstanding work. That's 3 guys who can be top 7 or 8 players on a championship roster for 20m.

If we can keep those 3, dump the rest and pick up a max free agent, that leaves us 6 quality guys deep and just looking at filling gaps with exceptions, draft picks and minimums.

I can't be any more frustrated with Powell's signing than I was the day he signed the deal.
I don't think anyone would have paid him much more than half of what we did and I'm still shaking my head as to why the FO did that.
It wasn't like he was a hot commodity on the open market at the time so I'm not sure who Mark and Donnie thought they were competing with.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#670 » by ejs78 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 10:02 pm

How much more did Powell get then Richaun Holmes again

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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#671 » by JJP » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:39 am

I think we're a little overboard on Powell. While I think Powell needs be upgraded, I hardly think he's dead weight at that salary.

There are a lot of NBA C\F position players that get about 25 MPG and are getting 10 ppg and 5 rpg. Some are paid more than Powell. Powell is very good P-and-R guy, a good screener, very mobile, and a positive locker room guy. He's completely bought into the culture and city.

I would like to see an upgrade. I personally think we could eventually find his skill set with a much better 3-point shot, but those types don't grow on trees. In the meantime he's a serviceable placeholder with a manageable (and trade-able) salary. He will have some good games assuming he's back at full speed. I wish he were better perimeter shooter, but I don't see him as a net-minus.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#672 » by jpengland » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:43 pm

JJP wrote:I think we're a little overboard on Powell. While I think Powell needs be upgraded, I hardly think he's dead weight at that salary.

There are a lot of NBA C\F position players that get about 25 MPG and are getting 10 ppg and 5 rpg. Some are paid more than Powell. Powell is very good P-and-R guy, a good screener, very mobile, and a positive locker room guy. He's completely bought into the culture and city.

I would like to see an upgrade. I personally think we could eventually find his skill set with a much better 3-point shot, but those types don't grow on trees. In the meantime he's a serviceable placeholder with a manageable (and trade-able) salary. He will have some good games assuming he's back at full speed. I wish he were better perimeter shooter, but I don't see him as a net-minus.


I like Powell but he's a back up big. Paying him 10m per, and him running longer than THJ means we have to lose other assets to free up max space.

You could get 90% of the production for the minimum. And that's the issue.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#673 » by JJP » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:20 pm

jpengland wrote:You could get 90% of the production for the minimum. And that's the issue.


No offense, but no, you probably couldn't. You called Powell a starter but he's 26 minutes per game. He gets you around 10 and 5 as I mentioned in my last post

Consider these big men which are paid more than Powell. A few of these have about the same minutes as Powell.

Mason Plumlee
Ian Mahimi
Cody Zeller
Gorgui Deng
Bismack Biyombo
Dedman

A mobile big man with great value like Sabonis is extraordinarily rare. A few guys on rookie contracts look really promising, but those players aren't available.

Getting more production at the center position (10 PPG with 5 RPG) is not easy to do in today's NBA at Powell's current salary.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#674 » by deb » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:07 pm

JJP wrote:
jpengland wrote:You could get 90% of the production for the minimum. And that's the issue.


No offense, but no, you probably couldn't. You called Powell a starter but he's 26 minutes per game. He gets you around 10 and 5 as I mentioned in my last post

Consider these big men which are paid more than Powell. A few of these have about the same minutes as Powell.

Mason Plumlee
Ian Mahimi
Cody Zeller
Gorgui Deng
Bismack Biyombo
Dedman

A mobile big man with great value like Sabonis is extraordinarily rare. A few guys on rookie contracts look really promising, but those players aren't available.

Getting more production at the center position (10 PPG with 5 RPG) is not easy to do in today's NBA at Powell's current salary.


There are actually quite a lot Cs and PFs that offer similar production at less per year:

WCS, Zubac, Baynes, Looney, Kanter, Robin Lopez, Ilyasova, Holmes, Harrell, Bjelica...

The problem is imo, that the mavs are paying close to 20 million per year to Maxi and Powell, who are both quality rotation players, neither is a proper starter. If WCS opts in and buys into the team, I don't think the rotation of KP/Maxi/WCS/Boban is any worse than KP/Maxi/Powell/Boban, while being alomst 8 million per year cheaper...
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#675 » by jpengland » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:51 pm

deb wrote:
JJP wrote:
jpengland wrote:You could get 90% of the production for the minimum. And that's the issue.


No offense, but no, you probably couldn't. You called Powell a starter but he's 26 minutes per game. He gets you around 10 and 5 as I mentioned in my last post

Consider these big men which are paid more than Powell. A few of these have about the same minutes as Powell.

Mason Plumlee
Ian Mahimi
Cody Zeller
Gorgui Deng
Bismack Biyombo
Dedman

A mobile big man with great value like Sabonis is extraordinarily rare. A few guys on rookie contracts look really promising, but those players aren't available.

Getting more production at the center position (10 PPG with 5 RPG) is not easy to do in today's NBA at Powell's current salary.


There are actually quite a lot Cs and PFs that offer similar production at less per year:

WCS, Zubac, Baynes, Looney, Kanter, Robin Lopez, Ilyasova, Holmes, Harrell, Bjelica...

The problem is imo, that the mavs are paying close to 20 million per year to Maxi and Powell, who are both quality rotation players, neither is a proper starter. If WCS opts in and buys into the team, I don't think the rotation of KP/Maxi/WCS/Boban is any worse than KP/Maxi/Powell/Boban, while being alomst 8 million per year cheaper...


Yep. Theres a long list of productive bigs on low salaries.

Kleber is the clearly better fit as he is a versatile defender and can knock down the three.

Powells only value is as a roll man. Which he does well.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#676 » by JJP » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:53 pm

deb wrote:
There are actually quite a lot Cs and PFs that offer similar production at less per year:

WCS, Zubac, Baynes, Looney, Kanter, Robin Lopez, Ilyasova, Holmes, Harrell, Bjelica...

The problem is imo, that the mavs are paying close to 20 million per year to Maxi and Powell, who are both quality rotation players, neither is a proper starter. If WCS opts in and buys into the team, I don't think the rotation of KP/Maxi/WCS/Boban is any worse than KP/Maxi/Powell/Boban, while being alomst 8 million per year cheaper...


It's true there will always be players of greater and lesser value, but WCS wasn't available when Powell's contract was up. WCS's contract is a temporary anomaly. Zubac wasn't available either. And no one saw Baines having the impact he's having.

Who was available then in FA? At some point, the player has to be compared with others that are available. Powell had a productive history here and it looked promising since the P&R is such a large part of the Mavs game. My point is not that Powell is a great addition or even that he's worth the money now. My point is that I think Powell's contract was not unreasonable in relation to his stat line from 2018-2019 given his age or progress.

My problem with Powell was that I expected him to develop the 3-point shot - which he clearly was reluctant to shoot before the injury. So I didn't like the Powell we were looking at in 2019. I'm sure the Front Office expected a better product. But given what the Mavericks saw when his contract was offered, it was hardly a colossal mistake at that point in time.

There have been a lot major screw-ups for the Mavs over the years. This really doesn't feel like one. It seems pretty minor. I think fan-anger is dialed up a little high for Powell.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#677 » by deb » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:03 pm

JJP wrote:
deb wrote:
There are actually quite a lot Cs and PFs that offer similar production at less per year:

WCS, Zubac, Baynes, Looney, Kanter, Robin Lopez, Ilyasova, Holmes, Harrell, Bjelica...

The problem is imo, that the mavs are paying close to 20 million per year to Maxi and Powell, who are both quality rotation players, neither is a proper starter. If WCS opts in and buys into the team, I don't think the rotation of KP/Maxi/WCS/Boban is any worse than KP/Maxi/Powell/Boban, while being alomst 8 million per year cheaper...


It's true there will always be players of greater and lesser value, but WCS wasn't available when Powell's contract was up. WCS's contract is a temporary anomaly. Zubac wasn't available either. And no one saw Baines having the impact he's having.

At some point, the player has to be compared with others that are available. Powell had a productive history here and it looked promising since the P&R is such a large part of the Mavs game. My point is not that Powell is a great addition or even that he's worth the money now. My point is that I think Powell's contract was not unreasonable in relation to his stat line from 2018-2019 given his age or progress.

My problem with Powell was that I expected him to develop the 3-point shot - which he clearly was reluctant to shoot. So I didn't like the Powell we were looking at before the injury. But given what the Mavericks saw when his contract was offered, it was hardly a colossal mistake at that point in time.


Yeah, it's not a colossal failure. It's just slightly too large and too long. if it was 3/28 it would be great value. The question is, can Powell, who relies on his athleticism, come back better than he was? If he can, then he's contract is awesome. If he loses a step, he could be the contract that prevents the mavs from getting a third star. In case he comes back diminished, he'll be virtually untradable...
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#678 » by JJP » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:19 pm

deb wrote:Yeah, it's not a colossal failure. It's just slightly too large and too long. if it was 3/28 it would be great value. The question is, can Powell, who relies on his athleticism, come back better than he was? If he can, then he's contract is awesome. If he loses a step, he could be the contract that prevents the mavs from getting a third star. In case he comes back diminished, he'll be virtually untradable...


On this, you could very well be right.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#679 » by arkuo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:43 am

There is a rumor that the Sixers might send Ben Simmons to Cleveland for a young player and picks. If that's all it took then I hope we are in on that too. Simmons can play PF here opposite Giannis. Has elite defense, leads the NBA in steals, can slash to the rim and become a secondary playmaker so the offense doesn't go thru Luka for 45 minutes per game.

Simmons is Giannis-lite. Slash and defend at an elite level. Both cant knock down a 3. Can make plays. Bigger chance of getting Simmons via trade than signing GIannis outright IMO. there are 29 other teams waiting on Giannis and we aren't even sure if he plans on leaving Milwaukee.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#680 » by Michaellam1987 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:46 pm

arkuo wrote:There is a rumor that the Sixers might send Ben Simmons to Cleveland for a young player and picks. If that's all it took then I hope we are in on that too. Simmons can play PF here opposite Giannis. Has elite defense, leads the NBA in steals, can slash to the rim and become a secondary playmaker so the offense doesn't go thru Luka for 45 minutes per game.

Simmons is Giannis-lite. Slash and defend at an elite level. Both cant knock down a 3. Can make plays. Bigger chance of getting Simmons via trade than signing GIannis outright IMO. there are 29 other teams waiting on Giannis and we aren't even sure if he plans on leaving Milwaukee.


We have no enough assets to acquire Ben Simmons, forget about it.

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