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Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1)

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Mr B
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#801 » by Mr B » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:40 am

arkuo wrote:
Mr B wrote:Haven’t seen any of you talking about this. Seems Mavs are willing to take on money this off season if it lands them a 3rd Star.


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I'd be willing to take on Myles Turner's contract if it means we get Victor Oladipo back. At worst Oladipo is still an expiring contract in 2021. At best he can be a defensive backcourt running mate for Luka. Send Indy THJ + Kleber + Curry and a bunch of draft picks for rebuilding around TJ Warren, Brogdon and Sabonis.

C- Porzingis
PF- Turner
SF- DFS
SG- Oladipo
PG- Doncic

I would absolutely do that. Dino’s health does concern me but he’s an upgrade over THJ. What exactly is Turner’s game like? I don’t see a lot of Pacers games. How is his defense?


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arkuo
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#802 » by arkuo » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:37 am

Mr B wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Mr B wrote:Haven’t seen any of you talking about this. Seems Mavs are willing to take on money this off season if it lands them a 3rd Star.


Read on Twitter
?s=21


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I'd be willing to take on Myles Turner's contract if it means we get Victor Oladipo back. At worst Oladipo is still an expiring contract in 2021. At best he can be a defensive backcourt running mate for Luka. Send Indy THJ + Kleber + Curry and a bunch of draft picks for rebuilding around TJ Warren, Brogdon and Sabonis.

C- Porzingis
PF- Turner
SF- DFS
SG- Oladipo
PG- Doncic

I would absolutely do that. Dino’s health does concern me but he’s an upgrade over THJ. What exactly is Turner’s game like? I don’t see a lot of Pacers games. How is his defense?


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Turner is a 3&D PF/C. So he actually will complement KP with KP standing outside most of the time.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#803 » by Mr B » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:55 pm

I know the ultimate goal is to sign Giannis as a free agent in 2021 however I would HATE for them to make the same mistake with this team that they did when Dirk was still playing. “Keeping the powder dry”. Yes I want Giannis and I want them to have the cap space to even have a chance at signing him however they need to improve this team any chance they get. In my opinion they won’t NEED Giannis to get to a title. There are other players out there (through trade) that also fit Mavs needs that can vastly improve this team.


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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#804 » by arkuo » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:29 pm

Mr B wrote:I know the ultimate goal is to sign Giannis as a free agent in 2021 however I would HATE for them to make the same mistake with this team that they did when Dirk was still playing. “Keeping the powder dry”. Yes I want Giannis and I want them to have the cap space to even have a chance at signing him however they need to improve this team any chance they get. In my opinion they won’t NEED Giannis to get to a title. There are other players out there (through trade) that also fit Mavs needs that can vastly improve this team.


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Yeah I feel the same way. If not Giannis, and assuming Miami signs Giannis in 2021, I'd like for the Mavs to sign Duncan Robinson as Miami wont have any money left after signing Giannis and Adebayo to max contracts while giving Jimmy Butler his own max deal. obviously not for max money, but similar to what Powell, Kleber and Seth Curry got.

The spacing that Robinson provided in the Finals tells me that you may be able to squeeze more offense out of KP and Luka. Just have them master the P&R like Dirk and Nash.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#805 » by JD45 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:03 pm

Its going to be difficult to wait for Giannis.

I am assuming they don't already have some sort of under the table understanding in place. So, in that case, they just have a chance at getting him, not a guarantee. If they keep cap space and sign Giannis as a free agent, I predict they contend for the next 10 years and win 5 championships. But what are the odds of getting Giannis? If it is 10%, I would probably look to add another star now if the price was right and lose cap space flexibility. If its 50% of getting Giannis, then I go for max cap space and just tread water this year. It might make Luka unhappy, but even without Giannis, there could be other talent available either as outright free agent or from another team dumping salaries.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#806 » by arkuo » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:27 pm

JD45 wrote:Its going to be difficult to wait for Giannis.

I am assuming they don't already have some sort of under the table understanding in place. So, in that case, they just have a chance at getting him, not a guarantee. If they keep cap space and sign Giannis as a free agent, I predict they contend for the next 10 years and win 5 championships. But what are the odds of getting Giannis? If it is 10%, I would probably look to add another star now if the price was right and lose cap space flexibility. If its 50% of getting Giannis, then I go for max cap space and just tread water this year. It might make Luka unhappy, but even without Giannis, there could be other talent available either as outright free agent or from another team dumping salaries.


That would be the most logical thing to do.

But this is the owner who blew up the 2011 champion team just to get a chance to sign Dwight Howard etc. History of his ego coming into play would suggest he would overrule Donnie again for a chance to sign a star in 2021.

Standing pat and waiting for 2021 is risky business.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#807 » by JJP » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:38 pm

Here's what I think about Giannis.

Yes, it's about 10% now. But it's 10% for everybody but Milwaukee. Milwaukee just has to get him to sign an extension or wait until free agency and outbid everyone else - which they can do.

However, Milwaukee has to convince him that they can make a champion. They have much of this next season to make their case. If by the all-star break it's obvious to Giannis that this is not a championship team, then Giannis goes to free agency looking for a new suitor.

At that point, Dallas's odds shoot up to about 50%. It's either us or Miami. I'm not sure anyone else looks nearly as attractive and will have the cap room. So while this looks pretty bad from here, things could change quickly by mid-season. I am of the opinion now is to keep the cap room open for 2021. It's not like we're going to struggle to do that (unlike Miami which will have more to move around to get to that point). We can still do quite well with trades and the MLE and still keep our cap room open for next season.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#808 » by boogiezen » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:10 pm

Dallas can't afford to have a losing season though if they want Giannis. It won't be that attractive if the team underperforms next season. They still have to prove that they can compete.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#809 » by Mr B » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:46 pm

arkuo wrote:
JD45 wrote:Its going to be difficult to wait for Giannis.

I am assuming they don't already have some sort of under the table understanding in place. So, in that case, they just have a chance at getting him, not a guarantee. If they keep cap space and sign Giannis as a free agent, I predict they contend for the next 10 years and win 5 championships. But what are the odds of getting Giannis? If it is 10%, I would probably look to add another star now if the price was right and lose cap space flexibility. If its 50% of getting Giannis, then I go for max cap space and just tread water this year. It might make Luka unhappy, but even without Giannis, there could be other talent available either as outright free agent or from another team dumping salaries.


That would be the most logical thing to do.

But this is the owner who blew up the 2011 champion team just to get a chance to sign Dwight Howard etc. History of his ego coming into play would suggest he would overrule Donnie again for a chance to sign a star in 2021.

Standing pat and waiting for 2021 is risky business.

I can actually understand why they tore up the 2011 team. In hindsight they should have resigned Tyson and built around him and Dirk. Then drafted Giannis.

Cuban is a very smart businessman and he took a gamble and it failed. You have to keep in mind that Dirk was close to the end. Circumstances with the team are different now because Luka is so young. I think Cuban will be a little smarter this time around.


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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#810 » by JJP » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:13 pm

Mr B wrote:I can actually understand why they tore up the 2011 team. In hindsight they should have resigned Tyson and built around him and Dirk. Then drafted Giannis.

Cuban is a very smart businessman and he took a gamble and it failed. You have to keep in mind that Dirk was close to the end. Circumstances with the team are different now because Luka is so young. I think Cuban will be a little smarter this time around.


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I think that's about right.

I think Cuban also said once that he didn't think that bringing those players back was enough to beat OKC given how good they were getting (they played for all the marbles in 2012). I think he was right about that. I think OKC would have been the best team in the west even if Dallas had retained all their players.
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#811 » by Mr B » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:53 pm

JJP wrote:
Mr B wrote:I can actually understand why they tore up the 2011 team. In hindsight they should have resigned Tyson and built around him and Dirk. Then drafted Giannis.

Cuban is a very smart businessman and he took a gamble and it failed. You have to keep in mind that Dirk was close to the end. Circumstances with the team are different now because Luka is so young. I think Cuban will be a little smarter this time around.


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I think that's about right.

I think Cuban also said once that he didn't think that bringing those players back was enough to beat OKC given how good they were getting (they played for all the marbles in 2012). I think he was right about that. I think OKC would have been the best team in the west even if Dallas had retained all their players.

Yea that team really caught lightning in a bottle. I don’t think they would have won again if he had brought the entire team back.


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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#812 » by leolozon » Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:29 pm

What's the consensus here? Waiting for 2021 or going for it?

Because I'm really intrigued by Wood as a guy to develop next to Luka. It seems like he could become a really really good player. His defense should get better as he has the tools, but doesn't have a lot of experience. His 3pt shooting looks like it's going to be really good. I feel like the Mavs really need to find 22-25yo to develop with Luka and it's going to be tough to find some. You have to take some risks and I can see Wood becoming a top 4 guy on a championship team in two years. Maybe he's not worth the risk to screw 2021, but I don't think Giannis is coming and then who else? Overpay Oladipo or Holiday?
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Re: Trade Central 19-20 / cap info (pg.1) 

Post#813 » by JJP » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:52 pm

I don't think anyone good gets offered a long-term contract by the Mavs in free agency. We could take on contracts through trades, but my guess is they use the MLE on good players who are left out of the long-term contracts for 2020. A lot of this is based on the presumption that Hardaway ops in - which he probably will.

I think players like Wood may be too good to miss out on a long-term contract. But you never know. Some players will have reasons to take a one-year deal and get overpaid with the MLE if they think it will be best to jump into free agency next year and seek a long-term contract when the market may be more competitive. So players like Gallinari, Justin Holiday, and Wood might actually choose a one-year deal. For the older players, I wouldn't bet on it, but each player is facing different circumstances. Also remeber, a team can offer a player a two-year contract with a "team option" for the second year. This allows a team like the Mavs to cut bait on some players if it turns out Giannis is really seeking a new destination.

In the end, I think Dallas will make trades if they can, and then use the MLE on any number of players that might accept a good situation like Dallas. Remember Dallas is a good place to boost your 3-point percentage if you're a wing and there's likely playoff potential. This is a different kind of destination now. I suspect Dallas will get good rotation help with the MLE, and possibly a starter in a trade. However, I do not expect them to offer any long-term contracts until the next free agency season.

Don't count on players like Wood, Jerami Grant, or Gallinari to sign with the Mavs for a one-year deal. And I rather doubt guys like Crowder are even a possibility since other teams will want him. It's far more likely, the Mavs get good second tier players to shore up their defense, offer the MLE for one or even two good rotation players, and hope for a good draft pick or two. Everyone is a bit star-struck on this board, but I don't really see that happening this season.

People like to grouse about "keeping the powder dry for Giannis," but the reality is that 2021 is really a better free agency season than this season. Remember, guys like Jrue Holiday will be free agents in 2021 no matter where they get traded this season. So will Kelly Oubre, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, Rudy Gobert, Victor Oladipo, Even Fournier, Kelly Olynk, Tony Snell, Norman Powell, Josh Richardson, etc. The free agent landscape is simply better next season than this one.

That's my humble opinion.

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