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Are We a SOFT team?

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Teffer10
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Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#1 » by Teffer10 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:25 pm

You look down our roster and I don't see any power players or strength whatsoever.

Seems every team in the west has at least one power player or at least strength/bulk in their lineup.
LAL - LeBron
LAC - Harrell
NOP - Zion
OKC - Adams
Minn - KAT
Houston - Westbrook
Den - Jokic
Port - Nurkic
Mem - Jonas V.
Phoenix - Ayton
GSW - Green

Could become a big problem for us.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#2 » by wolfram » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:53 pm

But do they have an unicorn AND a wonderboy? :D
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#3 » by burek3 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:50 pm

Teffer10 wrote:NOP - Zion
Houston - Westbrook
Port - Nurkic
Mem - Jonas V.
Phoenix - Ayton


These do not belong on the list or else that means that Dallas has Maxi Kleber and Luka Doncic as a strong players. Powell is probably also underrated here.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#4 » by HairyGOATee » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:49 pm

burek3 wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:NOP - Zion
Houston - Westbrook
Port - Nurkic
Mem - Jonas V.
Phoenix - Ayton


These do not belong on the list or else that means that Dallas has Maxi Kleber and Luka Doncic as a strong players. Powell is probably also underrated here.


Boban too.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#5 » by SOUNDCHASER » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:20 pm

Boban for sure is an enforcer of immense power. The problem is we need him being a faster force on the court that can stay on it for longer periods of time. We can maximize his minutes by starting him because if you start Boban then he can play 5 minutes then you rest him so now you can sneak him in and out of the games more and use him more because he will get more rest in between stints in the game and this will get his minutes up. Powell will get more minutes but Boban should be used as a starter and crunch time center.

Why? he rebounds and scores more per minute than Powell and he cannot be stopped because of his size plus he allows us to always have someone credible to protect the rim and get rebounds when KP is on the perimeter. He can be a go to guy late in games. Who is going to stop him when he wants to score? If you do you are fouling him and that is another reason to start him because now you get the other teams starting center in foul trouble earlier in the game so they have to bench him against Powell.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#6 » by bobsquad » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:21 pm

Powell showed a lot more aggressiveness on the boards last year. Relative to most swingmen in the league today, Luka and THJ both play hard with or without the ball in their hands and don't shy off from contact. Delon gets a lot of action in the passing lanes.

Don't see anyone on this team who plays "soft" really. Porzingis isn't going to be a banger, but he led the league in block rate last time out, so it's not like he's a "finesse" guy.

Any examples of past "soft" NBA teams?
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#7 » by bobsquad » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:31 pm

Actually I've got one. Zaza, Dirk, Parsons, Wes, Deron: that was a soft lineup. (Wes wasn't soft, but his body was in fringe NBA condition that year.) Was still good enough BBIQ to win 42 games.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#8 » by bran muffin » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:47 pm

Wes, DeAndre and Mej were the Mavs' toughest players last season, but they're all gone. Wes and Mej in particular were not only tough, but they were designated enforcers who went out of their way to get physical with opponents.

I won't call the Mavs "soft" just yet. But toughness is more about attitude than physical strength. And this roster is full of nice guys who play nice, and not enough professional troublemakers. We don't have anybody to step into the Zaza / DeShawn Stevenson role.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#9 » by Archx » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:09 pm

SOUNDCHASER wrote:Boban for sure is an enforcer of immense power. The problem is we need him being a faster force on the court that can stay on it for longer periods of time. We can maximize his minutes by starting him because if you start Boban then he can play 5 minutes then you rest him so now you can sneak him in and out of the games more and use him more because he will get more rest in between stints in the game and this will get his minutes up. Powell will get more minutes but Boban should be used as a starter and crunch time center.

Why? he rebounds and scores more per minute than Powell and he cannot be stopped because of his size plus he allows us to always have someone credible to protect the rim and get rebounds when KP is on the perimeter. He can be a go to guy late in games. Who is going to stop him when he wants to score? If you do you are fouling him and that is another reason to start him because now you get the other teams starting center in foul trouble earlier in the game so they have to bench him against Powell.


Boban got exposed vs Greece couple of days ago. Don't know what part of his game he is working on this off season, but he played like 5 mins and didn't even play in the 2nd half. I guess more spacing in the NBA is much better for him but he looked really clumsy. I wouldn't call him a crunch player or even an enforcer before we see him play in Mavs uniform. Hopefully he will have a great tourney though.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#10 » by Imon » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:46 pm

I would venture to say that a lot of fan bases probably thinks their team is "soft" to some extent.
Seems to me that "power" or "strength" is just another way of saying effort or energy as opposed to skill or finesse. I'd rather have players who are skilled rather than power players (not that the Mavs have a bunch of super skilled players).
Obviously it's best to have a healthy mixture of skilled and effort players or maybe both (like Lebron) but the market is what it is and the Mavs have to make do with the talent they have.

Also, I'm not sure I buy KAT as a "power' or "strength" player.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#11 » by Darren » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:24 am

Let's believe this is the start of positionless basketball.

When Dirk's still a rookie, this is a league for big. No matter how the Mavs tried, the Mavs end up with Dampier, Fortson and Lafrentz. But right now, it's not the same. Big is considered liability and use as occasional special role player only. Only elite big gets big money. With Luka and Zinger, the Mavs has to be creative in creating favorable mismatch. It's not a matter of muscle but mental toughness and ability to get stops afterall. I think the Mavs still need an elite defender in Matrix caliber. But even if we cry everyday, things won't change one inch. The Mavs does have good length on court. For zone defense, these are solid elements. Let see how things play out.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#12 » by Teffer10 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:51 pm

bobsquad wrote:Actually I've got one. Zaza, Dirk, Parsons, Wes, Deron: that was a soft lineup. (Wes wasn't soft, but his body was in fringe NBA condition that year.) Was still good enough BBIQ to win 42 games.

I know the league has changed since 2011 but I'd love to have just one clone of Stevenson, Kidd, Tyson, Cardinal, Marion, or Butler.
That had to be the toughest team the Mavs ever put on the court and I didn't even include the mental toughness of Dirk, JET and JJB to that mix. I think we have some of the mental toughness in Luka and an old JJB along with Brunson and maybe KP and Seth but man would I love to have one of the 6 I mention from our 2011 championship team. Hell, I'd even settle for another Stack or Howard....someone you'd want to take to a fight. We need a bad boy imo...Rick seems to like having one or more on the roster so I'm a little surprised we didn't sign one or at least bring back Salah.

I know finesse is important these days but I think the Mavs are a bit vulnerable to being bullied every now and then and will become labeled as being soft. Just don't see a real tough or physically intimidating guy on the squad, just a roster full of nice respectable finesse guys. Doesn't necessarily have to be a big guy, but someone who plays physical or at least has a physically intimidating presence that doesn't take crap from anyone.

Again, just don't see anyone with those characteristics on this roster.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#13 » by Mr B » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:27 pm

We will be until they can find a dominant big to play next to Porzingis.


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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#14 » by Deus » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:09 pm

Yes I agree the Mavs are a soft team. They need a dominant rebounder/defender at the 4 or 3. KP isn't that. Luka can always step up this season and be that guy but that's a big if. He looked soft last year.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#15 » by Teffer10 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:43 am

Deus wrote:Yes I agree the Mavs are a soft team. They need a dominant rebounder/defender at the 4 or 3. KP isn't that. Luka can always step up this season and be that guy but that's a big if. He looked soft last year.

I'm a little surprised only a few of us have this concern.

KP is vulnerable with his build and injury history so it would make sense to have some protection for him in the frontcourt. With the Mavs being so finesse structured and oriented, teams will get physical with them and the last thing we need is for KP to take most of the blows. Powell and Maxi aren't exactly tough/physical guys and neither are any of our SFs so I think this will be a problem throughout the season one way or another. I just hope that problem doesn't escalate to wear, tear and injury to one of our most valuable pieces.

I agree, we need some strength and nastiness in our frontcourt who will do the dirty work that KP shouldn't be doing.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#16 » by daoneandonly » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:02 pm

Teffer10 wrote:
Deus wrote:Yes I agree the Mavs are a soft team. They need a dominant rebounder/defender at the 4 or 3. KP isn't that. Luka can always step up this season and be that guy but that's a big if. He looked soft last year.

I'm a little surprised only a few of us have this concern.

KP is vulnerable with his build and injury history so it would make sense to have some protection for him in the frontcourt. With the Mavs being so finesse structured and oriented, teams will get physical with them and the last thing we need is for KP to take most of the blows. Powell and Maxi aren't exactly tough/physical guys and neither are any of our SFs so I think this will be a problem throughout the season one way or another. I just hope that problem doesn't escalate to wear, tear and injury to one of our most valuable pieces.

I agree, we need some strength and nastiness in our frontcourt who will do the dirty work that KP shouldn't be doing.


I'm with you, I wish we had that Matrix or Deshawn type, its really needed. DFS can probably be some of that, but we definitely need it from a big man. Part of the reason I was perplexed as to why we would waste a roster spot on Boban, and why I think we should do a trade of THJ or Gorgei Dieng.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#17 » by e_l_f_o » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:04 pm

Jae Crowder comeback would have been perfect fit
tough , D and can shoot the corner 3
Llull, Llull, Llull!!
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#18 » by Teffer10 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:54 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
Deus wrote:Yes I agree the Mavs are a soft team. They need a dominant rebounder/defender at the 4 or 3. KP isn't that. Luka can always step up this season and be that guy but that's a big if. He looked soft last year.

I'm a little surprised only a few of us have this concern.

KP is vulnerable with his build and injury history so it would make sense to have some protection for him in the frontcourt. With the Mavs being so finesse structured and oriented, teams will get physical with them and the last thing we need is for KP to take most of the blows. Powell and Maxi aren't exactly tough/physical guys and neither are any of our SFs so I think this will be a problem throughout the season one way or another. I just hope that problem doesn't escalate to wear, tear and injury to one of our most valuable pieces.

I agree, we need some strength and nastiness in our frontcourt who will do the dirty work that KP shouldn't be doing.


I'm with you, I wish we had that Matrix or Deshawn type, its really needed. DFS can probably be some of that, but we definitely need it from a big man. Part of the reason I was perplexed as to why we would waste a roster spot on Boban, and why I think we should do a trade of THJ or Gorgei Dieng.

Holman isn't necessarily a big guy in terms of strength but there is some swagger to him and emotion in his game that leads me to believe we may have found something and an answer to some of our concerns.

I've been watching a lot of video clips of him and looked through his stats and he seems to be a very, very good 3pt shooter for a big man. He shot 38.2% over 4 years at Miss St and 43.5% over his Junior and Senior years. This dude can flat out shoot, is very athletic and is a much better defender (rim protector) than Powell. A 7'2" WS is pretty decent as well. He isn't a great rebounder but should be pretty average. Seems to have decent handles too.

Wouldn't surprise me if Rick gives this guy a decent look this season. We are thin in the frontcourt, and the few guys we have will have minute limitations, so I think Holman is in a good situation and might bring some of that spunk we need in the frontcourt.
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#19 » by BlueSan » Yesterday 9:30 am

Deus wrote:Yes I agree the Mavs are a soft team. They need a dominant rebounder/defender at the 4 or 3. KP isn't that. Luka can always step up this season and be that guy but that's a big if. He looked soft last year.



As a rookie Luka looked anything but soft. The dude is a 6,7 big boned (got it from his father) point guard. He also took tons of hits and posted smaller guys on plenty occassions and throught the season you even saw how his confidence and physical presence grew as he was doing more of the slam dunking and running to the rim.

Luka may be a lot of things but being soft aint one of them. He can't be just pushed around the field by his positions it's the opposite way around.

Maxi isnt a soft 4 also, neither is Powel, Marjanovič is definitely not a soft 5, where we actually lack is the number 2 and 3 positions

so shooting guard and small forward...those are a bit soft
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Re: Are We a SOFT team? 

Post#20 » by Teffer10 » Yesterday 10:35 am

BlueSan wrote:
Deus wrote:Yes I agree the Mavs are a soft team. They need a dominant rebounder/defender at the 4 or 3. KP isn't that. Luka can always step up this season and be that guy but that's a big if. He looked soft last year.



As a rookie Luka looked anything but soft. The dude is a 6,7 big boned (got it from his father) point guard. He also took tons of hits and posted smaller guys on plenty occassions and throught the season you even saw how his confidence and physical presence grew as he was doing more of the slam dunking and running to the rim.

Luka may be a lot of things but being soft aint one of them. He can't be just pushed around the field by his positions it's the opposite way around.

Maxi isnt a soft 4 also, neither is Powel, Marjanovič is definitely not a soft 5, where we actually lack is the number 2 and 3 positions

so shooting guard and small forward...those are a bit soft

The term "soft" is definitely in the eye of the beholder when it comes to sports. Luka, Barea, Brunson and maybe a few others are about as tough as it gets and I don't think many would call them soft by any means. But I don't think anyone considers any of those 3 as "power" or "strength" players with a mean streak. Mental toughness is one thing and you can certainly outsmart opponents but when it comes to a real brute player that can physically impose his will at his position, I just don't see one on this just yet. As you mention, Luka is a big player and as Deus said he could step up, but he seems to currently have more finesse to his game than power. And he still seems to be a "nice guy" like Dirk. I do think it will eventually come and he'll learn to use his size to his advantage and he'll have more power and force to his game and physically impose his will.

I simply don't see much toughness, strength, bulk or meanness in Powell and Maxi at all. I can't say I've seen a lot of Boban so maybe he does have a mean streak. He certainly has the size. When teams start getting physical with KP to get into his head, or worse, try to rough him up, I want someone to help protect him or counter in some manner. I don't see that on the team unless Boban is something more than what I'm seeing or hearing. Besides, it appears he will be a bit limited.

My definition of "soft" in this conversation is someone who doesn't have a mean streak. My point is that we don't have a player with a bully mentality (Stackhouse, DeShawn, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, Rick Mahorn, Bruce Bowen, etc...) or someone who has the physical presence and/or temperament to not get bullied (Tyson Chandler, etc...) and will retaliate with force if needed.

We are not lacking mental toughness and mental strength. I think we have plenty of that in Luka, Brunson, Barea and maybe KP.
It's the physical part that concerns me....especially in our frontcourt.

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