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2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick)

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#361 » by arkuo » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:21 am

JJP wrote:
arkuo wrote:For the Mavs, the question is not who to draft but if our draftee gets minutes from Carlisle. You can draft a great defender at #18, but if he cant beat THJ or DFS our for minutes, he's just looking at playing the Ryan Broekhoff role here.


I think the reality you're dealing with in the draft is "time". Can you draft anyone who can produce in the KP\Luca primetime window of time? If you draft a 19-year old, will he be giving you starter minutes in the next 2-4 years? That's a big gamble.

If not, then go strong after a trade for a veteran and include the draft pick. That's much less of a gamble if you can find the right players.

There are a lot of guys I like at #18, but they won't likely be impact players in next year's playoffs... and possibly future playoffs. If they end up drafting at 18, it will likely be because they just couldn't do anything to trade the pick on draft night.



This is why I think Cuban will trade #18 for pieces or to add to a package that can get us pieces that can win now. Luka and KP are ready to win now. Not 4 years from now, with the right pieces they could go for a deep playoff run now. You dont waste Luka and KP's prime years keeping plan powder dry like Cuban did with Dirk. Dirk took paycut after paycut only for Cuban to sign Monta Ellis along with one year expiring deals every summer.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#362 » by JJP » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:31 am

arkuo wrote:This is why I think Cuban will trade #18 for pieces or to add to a package that can get us pieces that can win now. Luka and KP are ready to win now. Not 4 years from now, with the right pieces they could go for a deep playoff run now. You dont waste Luka and KP's prime years keeping plan powder dry like Cuban did with Dirk. Dirk took paycut after paycut only for Cuban to sign Monta Ellis along with one year expiring deals every summer.


That's pretty much how I see it too. Especially since it became so glaring that we need to surround Luca with different players in these playoff games.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#363 » by Darren » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:04 pm

Teffer10 wrote:
Darren wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
I'd love to see the Mavs move up to get Vassell because he is a perfect fit and exactly what we need but that will take both picks and probably Brunson. I'd still do it if that is what it takes.
I disagree with taking a big. Those guys are very easy to acquire in FA now that the league has changed so why waste a draft pick when many of those guys are playing in a different league or sitting at home doing nothing? Hell, some of those guys might not even get drafted and will be there as UFA's like Tacko. Look how easy it was to acquire WCS and how little he cost us.

As I mentioned before I wouldn't mind seeing the Mavs trade back because guys like Tyler Bey, Ramsey, Hampton and Green could be there in the mid-20s and they could pickup another pick in the 2nd round to possibly grab a guy like Paul Reed or Alec Pokusevski. A trade of #18/#31 to Sixers for #21/#34/#36 is something I could embrace. If we ended up with Green/Poku/Reed I'd be ecstatic.


I disagree. If the difference between Nesmith and Vessell is #31, I lane towards keeping the pick for a Matrix clone. Nesmith is easily more successful for the Mavs. The Mavs needs more Curry than Wright. That's the truth. Nesmith is not a bad defender either. Vessell is only 6-5 and not able to guard the position the Mavs short of personnel at. I'd rather have McDaniels or Bey or Xavier for #31 to fill to role. Wingspan and athetlcism matters more long-term. If neither reach full-potential, the Mavs still get a good gamble. DFS can't guard frontcourt player. That's what we already know. Pheonix has Mikal Bridge. But Miles Bridge at CHA is more successful. Miles is considered comparative better offensive player but less competitive defender. The same could be true between Vessell and Nesmith. For a truely elite defender, it's 6-8 with 7 foot wingspan and outstanding athleticism to start with. Kawhi and Giannis are both ridiculously great defender. Vessell could be good but so is ordinary player like Wes Matthews who's on the same mode with lower draft position.


Nesmith is a guy I'd absolutely take at #18 but I wouldn't trade up for him. He is slow and very little athleticism. Decent defender and good shooter but the Mavs need more athleticism mixed with skill and a great versatile defender at the wing. Vassell checks those boxes and he is listed at 6'7 not 6'5. He is basically a better version of DFS with much more upside.

Vassell...Matrix clone
Nesmith....Wes Matthews clone


I disagree with the comparison. Vessell is not Matrix clone. More likely than not, Vessell is similar to Mikal Bridge. Vessell can't guard PF/C in any way. That's not adding skillsets on roster at all. DFS can't guard PF/C but can chase the likes of Kemba walker. Kawhi gives DFS trouble because Kawhi can play like a PF with long arms and quick hands. Technically, Kawhi plays bigger than 6-11 players with SF quickness. This gives DFS troubles in a ridiculous way. If the Mavs do want to add depth to do something DFS cannot, gamble on 31st prospect is the cheapest way. Some really interesting prospects are certainly available at 31.

I also disagree Nesmith-Matthews comparison. I consider Nesmith a JJ Reddick with Stackhouse / Carter's athleticism. Nesmith can actually defend likes DeShawn Stevenson at least. Someone like JJ Reddick or Korver with better defense could replace Hardaway completely after a year. That's my expectation. Nesmith is not slow or physically awful from highlights. I disagree with your comparison at all. The main problem is Nesmith has little playmaking for offer with. That's perfectly fine with Doncic around.

A 6-6 Seth Curry with a little better defense. That's what I think of Nesmith.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#364 » by JJP » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:30 pm

From the discussion above...

I have yet to see a mock draft with Vassell slipping to #18. I think I've only seen one mock draft with Nesmith falling that far.

If you were to trade up, you'd need to be sure the guy you draft was an almost instant impact player... and I just don't see that. To me, trading up seems the least likely of all possible draft night scenarios.

Just an aside: as of September 1, Bolmaro has decided to stay in Europe.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/08/and-ones-white-mccullough-bolmaro-orlando-reunions.html
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#365 » by jpengland » Tue Sep 1, 2020 8:57 pm

I'll say it again.

This draft is largely garbage, very few solid picks and a crapshoot in the first round.

The pick likely has little trade value, if you keep both picks you take the best available defensive wing with 18 and 31 and hope one pans out.

Mocks are all over the place as its such a flat, talent poor draft. Who knows who might go where. Variance for most guys is probably 10-15 picks.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#366 » by jpengland » Tue Sep 1, 2020 8:59 pm

Darren wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
Darren wrote:
I disagree. If the difference between Nesmith and Vessell is #31, I lane towards keeping the pick for a Matrix clone. Nesmith is easily more successful for the Mavs. The Mavs needs more Curry than Wright. That's the truth. Nesmith is not a bad defender either. Vessell is only 6-5 and not able to guard the position the Mavs short of personnel at. I'd rather have McDaniels or Bey or Xavier for #31 to fill to role. Wingspan and athetlcism matters more long-term. If neither reach full-potential, the Mavs still get a good gamble. DFS can't guard frontcourt player. That's what we already know. Pheonix has Mikal Bridge. But Miles Bridge at CHA is more successful. Miles is considered comparative better offensive player but less competitive defender. The same could be true between Vessell and Nesmith. For a truely elite defender, it's 6-8 with 7 foot wingspan and outstanding athleticism to start with. Kawhi and Giannis are both ridiculously great defender. Vessell could be good but so is ordinary player like Wes Matthews who's on the same mode with lower draft position.


Nesmith is a guy I'd absolutely take at #18 but I wouldn't trade up for him. He is slow and very little athleticism. Decent defender and good shooter but the Mavs need more athleticism mixed with skill and a great versatile defender at the wing. Vassell checks those boxes and he is listed at 6'7 not 6'5. He is basically a better version of DFS with much more upside.

Vassell...Matrix clone
Nesmith....Wes Matthews clone


I disagree with the comparison. Vessell is not Matrix clone. More likely than not, Vessell is similar to Mikal Bridge. Vessell can't guard PF/C in any way. That's not adding skillsets on roster at all. DFS can't guard PF/C but can chase the likes of Kemba walker. Kawhi gives DFS trouble because Kawhi can play like a PF with long arms and quick hands. Technically, Kawhi plays bigger than 6-11 players with SF quickness. This gives DFS troubles in a ridiculous way. If the Mavs do want to add depth to do something DFS cannot, gamble on 31st prospect is the cheapest way. Some really interesting prospects are certainly available at 31.

I also disagree Nesmith-Matthews comparison. I consider Nesmith a JJ Reddick with Stackhouse / Carter's athleticism. Nesmith can actually defend likes DeShawn Stevenson at least. Someone like JJ Reddick or Korver with better defense could replace Hardaway completely after a year. That's my expectation. Nesmith is not slow or physically awful from highlights. I disagree with your comparison at all. The main problem is Nesmith has little playmaking for offer with. That's perfectly fine with Doncic around.

A 6-6 Seth Curry with a little better defense. That's what I think of Nesmith.


Marion clone goes number one.

Wes Matthews clone, goes top 5

6'6 Seth Curry with better D goes top 3

None of these guys are likely to sniff those projections. Even in a good draft most guys after pick 6 or 7 don't become starters, most picks after 15 don't even stick in the league.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#367 » by JJP » Wed Sep 2, 2020 12:05 am

While the above post is largely true, it's also true there will be serviceable players for the rotation at #18 and #31. The fact is the Mavericks may need the most help with their non-Luca minutes. Finding a rotation player with speed (like K. Lewis) or defense (like Tillman) or 3-point shooting (like Tyrell Terry or Desmond Bane) is still important.

However, if you're trying to find a starter then you may need to trade the pick - which I think is likely. Nonetheless, it may not be possible. I'm sure if the Mavericks can't find a trade, they'll be prepared to pick in what is largely a crapshoot. While the draft is considered weak at the top, a few good players will likely surface in the middle of the first round.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#368 » by JJP » Thu Sep 3, 2020 3:54 pm

An interesting comment in a new mock draft by Bleacherreport infers that if Dallas can't manage a trade, they might want to move up a few spots in the draft to get one of the serviceable wing players.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#369 » by Pointguard01 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 11:45 pm

JJP wrote:An interesting comment in a new mock draft by Bleacherreport infers that if Dallas can't manage a trade, they might want to move up a few spots in the draft to get one of the serviceable wing players.


Did they say who?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#370 » by JJP » Fri Sep 4, 2020 2:32 am

Pointguard01 wrote:
JJP wrote:An interesting comment in a new mock draft by Bleacherreport infers that if Dallas can't manage a trade, they might want to move up a few spots in the draft to get one of the serviceable wing players.


Did they say who?


They did not. However, Bey, Nesmith, Williams, and Vassell were all above the Mavs somewhere around 10-16. I presumed it to mean of those players.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#371 » by Teffer10 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 10:32 am

Darren wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
Darren wrote:
I disagree. If the difference between Nesmith and Vessell is #31, I lane towards keeping the pick for a Matrix clone. Nesmith is easily more successful for the Mavs. The Mavs needs more Curry than Wright. That's the truth. Nesmith is not a bad defender either. Vessell is only 6-5 and not able to guard the position the Mavs short of personnel at. I'd rather have McDaniels or Bey or Xavier for #31 to fill to role. Wingspan and athetlcism matters more long-term. If neither reach full-potential, the Mavs still get a good gamble. DFS can't guard frontcourt player. That's what we already know. Pheonix has Mikal Bridge. But Miles Bridge at CHA is more successful. Miles is considered comparative better offensive player but less competitive defender. The same could be true between Vessell and Nesmith. For a truely elite defender, it's 6-8 with 7 foot wingspan and outstanding athleticism to start with. Kawhi and Giannis are both ridiculously great defender. Vessell could be good but so is ordinary player like Wes Matthews who's on the same mode with lower draft position.


Nesmith is a guy I'd absolutely take at #18 but I wouldn't trade up for him. He is slow and very little athleticism. Decent defender and good shooter but the Mavs need more athleticism mixed with skill and a great versatile defender at the wing. Vassell checks those boxes and he is listed at 6'7 not 6'5. He is basically a better version of DFS with much more upside.

Vassell...Matrix clone
Nesmith....Wes Matthews clone


I disagree with the comparison. Vessell is not Matrix clone. More likely than not, Vessell is similar to Mikal Bridge. Vessell can't guard PF/C in any way. That's not adding skillsets on roster at all. DFS can't guard PF/C but can chase the likes of Kemba walker. Kawhi gives DFS trouble because Kawhi can play like a PF with long arms and quick hands. Technically, Kawhi plays bigger than 6-11 players with SF quickness. This gives DFS troubles in a ridiculous way. If the Mavs do want to add depth to do something DFS cannot, gamble on 31st prospect is the cheapest way. Some really interesting prospects are certainly available at 31.

I also disagree Nesmith-Matthews comparison. I consider Nesmith a JJ Reddick with Stackhouse / Carter's athleticism. Nesmith can actually defend likes DeShawn Stevenson at least. Someone like JJ Reddick or Korver with better defense could replace Hardaway completely after a year. That's my expectation. Nesmith is not slow or physically awful from highlights. I disagree with your comparison at all. The main problem is Nesmith has little playmaking for offer with. That's perfectly fine with Doncic around.

A 6-6 Seth Curry with a little better defense. That's what I think of Nesmith.

Vassell's strengths are shooting, super athleticism (maybe most athletic in the draft) and defense as a wing.
Player comparisons are certainly fun to debate and I don't think Vassell will have anywhere near Matrix's success, but I like the fit with those strengths and feel that his upside could fill that Matrix/Amino role as a long term starter on this team.
One of the reasons why we are a 6-8 seed caliber team instead of 3-5 is because we need to upgrade DFS's role on the team. Vassell's ceiling is higher than DFS because he is a much more natural shooter and could very well become a better defender. He is also more athletic even though DFS is very athletic. That is why I would trade up for him.

I absolutely love Nesmith but his strength is pretty much just 3 point shooting. He would be an enormous gift if he is available at #18 because he is that good of a shooter, and he would be a great fit, but I'm not sure if he gives us much more than what Seth gives us now. That is why I'd definitely take him at #18 but would not give up #31 because we'd need that pick to address a wing defender. Nesmith is a good defender but wouldn't significantly make our defense much better.
But I definitely agree with you that Nesmith has Seth credentials with better defense and I'd add in a bigger body.

I'd be ecstatic if Nesmith would be there at #18.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#372 » by Teffer10 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 10:42 am

jpengland wrote:
Darren wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
Nesmith is a guy I'd absolutely take at #18 but I wouldn't trade up for him. He is slow and very little athleticism. Decent defender and good shooter but the Mavs need more athleticism mixed with skill and a great versatile defender at the wing. Vassell checks those boxes and he is listed at 6'7 not 6'5. He is basically a better version of DFS with much more upside.

Vassell...Matrix clone
Nesmith....Wes Matthews clone


I disagree with the comparison. Vessell is not Matrix clone. More likely than not, Vessell is similar to Mikal Bridge. Vessell can't guard PF/C in any way. That's not adding skillsets on roster at all. DFS can't guard PF/C but can chase the likes of Kemba walker. Kawhi gives DFS trouble because Kawhi can play like a PF with long arms and quick hands. Technically, Kawhi plays bigger than 6-11 players with SF quickness. This gives DFS troubles in a ridiculous way. If the Mavs do want to add depth to do something DFS cannot, gamble on 31st prospect is the cheapest way. Some really interesting prospects are certainly available at 31.

I also disagree Nesmith-Matthews comparison. I consider Nesmith a JJ Reddick with Stackhouse / Carter's athleticism. Nesmith can actually defend likes DeShawn Stevenson at least. Someone like JJ Reddick or Korver with better defense could replace Hardaway completely after a year. That's my expectation. Nesmith is not slow or physically awful from highlights. I disagree with your comparison at all. The main problem is Nesmith has little playmaking for offer with. That's perfectly fine with Doncic around.

A 6-6 Seth Curry with a little better defense. That's what I think of Nesmith.


Marion clone goes number one.

Wes Matthews clone, goes top 5

6'6 Seth Curry with better D goes top 3

None of these guys are likely to sniff those projections. Even in a good draft most guys after pick 6 or 7 don't become starters, most picks after 15 don't even stick in the league.

Completely agree!
Those comparisons are more about attributes, style and roles they would fill more than anticipated success. I don't think Wes and Seth were even drafted and Marion was a #9 pick.

What they have between the ears, attitude and work ethic are what it will take any player to become successful in this league.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#373 » by dirkforpres » Fri Sep 4, 2020 4:22 pm

Pointguard01 wrote:
JJP wrote:An interesting comment in a new mock draft by Bleacherreport infers that if Dallas can't manage a trade, they might want to move up a few spots in the draft to get one of the serviceable wing players.


Did they say who?


My guess is if we keep the pick, we take Josh Green.

Sounds like Phoenix wants to package Oubre and 10 for cap space though... if we offered them 18, Brunson, and Wright for 10 (Vassell) and Oubre... that would be great... Not sure it saves Phoenix enough money to entice them though
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#374 » by JJP » Fri Sep 4, 2020 4:38 pm

dirkforpres wrote:
Sounds like Phoenix wants to package Oubre and 10 for cap space though... if we offered them 18, Brunson, and Wright for 10 (Vassell) and Oubre... that would be great... Not sure it saves Phoenix enough money to entice them though


These are the kind of trades that might be available I think. The current understanding among sports writers is that several teams would like to move\trade during this particular draft, so I'm hoping the Mavericks can be involved in some creative horse-trading.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#375 » by ejs78 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 5:21 pm

Id be in for this.

Oubre also becomes a FA in 21 to keep the cap space open too.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#376 » by swaggerbox » Sat Sep 5, 2020 2:25 pm

I think the Mavs hold onto #18 if their target Bogdan Bogdanovic does not become available. I have a gut feeling that Isaac Okoro would be the best player of this year's draft. He is strong as a Bull with great motor. If he develops a jumper you are seeing a superstar. Personally, I would like the Mavs to get anyone of Desmond Bane, Paul Reed, Elijah Hughes, Saddiq Bey, or Cassius Stanley. Would they cut down space for 2021? yes, but if and when giannis or other stars decide to join the Mavs, they can easily make that space. Assets move the needle not cap space but it seems the Mavs always forget that.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#377 » by Darren » Sat Sep 5, 2020 5:00 pm

For a long-term starter, Jahmius Ramsey is no too bad for 18th pick. 6-3 with 6-7 wingspan. Play good defense. Shoot effortlessly from long-range. Easily a Seth Curry with more defense. Would be a great pick if Ramsey is available at 31st. Josh Green sounds good as well with 6-10 wingspan. Jaden McDaniels is not too bad as 31st pick.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#378 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 7:38 pm

Josh Green and Sadiq Bey should be out top two options in that range, imo. Both are exceellent passers and project to be terrific 3/D guys. Bey can post up mismatches too. Tre Jones would be an excellent fit if he develops the three, which I think he would. Tyler Bey could be a good 3/D at SF or PF. Paul Reed reminds me of a PF version of Thybulle with his steal and block numbers. He has an excellent mid range jumper, but he hasn't gotten it consistently behind the three point line yet. He could turn into a Maxi clone if he pushes that middy back to the three.
Ramsey could be a nice talent play and Nessmith would be an exciting addition as well.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#379 » by Captain_Obvious » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:01 am

I think teams will reach for 3D candidates. At least I expect them to do that, 3D guys can be put on the floor and show their worth right away. Just look at Phoenix with Cam and Bridges. That means guys like Saddiq/Green/Vassell/Nesmith will be long gone at #18. I hope I'm wrong.
If you can buy/trade for a late first and Tyler Bey/Bane is there, don't even hesitate. At worst you can dump them for cap space. The moment they show they can defend and hit shots they become a premium asset in this league.

What do you guys think about Paul Reed with the 2nd rounder? Problem is college 3pt % can be deceiving, just look at Wendell Carter Jr. (.413 -> .2)
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#380 » by JJP » Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:27 pm

Captain_Obvious wrote:I think teams will reach for 3D candidates. At least I expect them to do that, 3D guys can be put on the floor and show their worth right away. Just look at Phoenix with Cam and Bridges. That means guys like Saddiq/Green/Vassell/Nesmith will be long gone at #18. I hope I'm wrong.
If you can buy/trade for a late first and Tyler Bey/Bane is there, don't even hesitate. At worst you can dump them for cap space. The moment they show they can defend and hit shots they become a premium asset in this league.

What do you guys think about Paul Reed with the 2nd rounder? Problem is college 3pt % can be deceiving, just look at Wendell Carter Jr. (.413 -> .2)


I think Reed is a perfectly fine draft pick at #31. Same with Bane and Tyler Bey. They could all be a diamond in the second round.

And I agree about the 3-D wings. I think all be gone anyway by the time we pick. I'd rather see a trade.

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