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2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick)

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#421 » by jpengland » Sat Oct 3, 2020 12:23 am

Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Need shouldn't factor here we have a low talent level we need everything, there isnt one position on this team that couldn't use an upgrade


But there's some positions in more need than others.

The Mavs aren't going to draft a player who needs the ball a lot to be effective. If we were drafting #1 in this year's draft, we would not be drafting LaMelo Ball. We would be drafting a piece than would complement Doncic, not compete with him for minutes. I'm pretty sure you know this already, you're just not thinking it through.

If melo is bpa u absolutely draft him, they wouldn't be competing for minutes dude there are plenty to go around and again we don't have the luxury to draft for need, we are barely a playoff team, u don't build around luka right now especially when u have a lack of talent


You dont build around Luka......

But back to the point, Melo isn't the BPA if he's not being put in a role to succeed here as he won't reach his potential.

This isn't NBA2K where you draft guys and they develop in as linear manner. There are 1001 variables in play and many of them directly or indirectly relate to fit
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#422 » by Pinkyring » Sat Oct 3, 2020 12:30 am

jpengland wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
But there's some positions in more need than others.

The Mavs aren't going to draft a player who needs the ball a lot to be effective. If we were drafting #1 in this year's draft, we would not be drafting LaMelo Ball. We would be drafting a piece than would complement Doncic, not compete with him for minutes. I'm pretty sure you know this already, you're just not thinking it through.

If melo is bpa u absolutely draft him, they wouldn't be competing for minutes dude there are plenty to go around and again we don't have the luxury to draft for need, we are barely a playoff team, u don't build around luka right now especially when u have a lack of talent


You dont build around Luka......

But back to the point, Melo isn't the BPA if he's not being put in a role to succeed here as he won't reach his potential.

This isn't NBA2K where you draft guys and they develop in as linear manner. There are 1001 variables in play and many of them directly or indirectly relate to fit

Great players figure fit oit, period lebron and wade were a terrible fit yet bvb they made it work, people want giannis he's a terrible fit with luka but they'll figure it out. U don't use an asset on an inferior player that's just ridiculous. Again tho, this team isn't set at any position so need shouldn't even be a thought
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#423 » by ejs78 » Sat Oct 3, 2020 1:16 am

FWIW Bobby Marks of ESPN thinks the Mavs are looking to trade the picks and move up in the draft.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#424 » by JJP » Sat Oct 3, 2020 1:29 am

You're still missing the point.

The point is LaMelo is not a consensus. If Anthony Edwards and LaMelo Ball is sitting at are both sitting at #1, then you're not taking Ball. If you're the Mavericks, you're taking Edwards. And yes, you absolutely are building a team assuming Luca is directing it. Do you think Milwaukee goes into free agency or the draft pretending Giannis isn't on their team?

The draft is full of players whose skill set is tailored to a position - Great Point Guard, Great Center, Great 3-D wing. All these positions have changed, but the metrics are still important. The degree to which you have a need for a type of player determines how and where you rate them on a scale. It's silly to think the Mavs would just be blind about the position or the metrics involved. Offense, Defense, playmaking, age, school, wingspan, speed, basketball IQ - all these metrics are ranked - and they are ranked differently by each team. If a team is weak on defense, they will rank a defensive player differently than a team looking for perimeter player.

Pretending that each player on a list is simply "better" than the player below is nonsense. You're making a team. Making a team "better" requires you to think of your own team's weakness. Assuming you don't "stretch" for a particular position, then you should consider your needs.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#425 » by Archx » Sat Oct 3, 2020 1:33 am

Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Need shouldn't factor here we have a low talent level we need everything, there isnt one position on this team that couldn't use an upgrade


But there's some positions in more need than others.

The Mavs aren't going to draft a player who needs the ball a lot to be effective. If we were drafting #1 in this year's draft, we would not be drafting LaMelo Ball. We would be drafting a piece than would complement Doncic, not compete with him for minutes. I'm pretty sure you know this already, you're just not thinking it through.

If melo is bpa u absolutely draft him, they wouldn't be competing for minutes dude there are plenty to go around and again we don't have the luxury to draft for need, we are barely a playoff team, u don't build around luka right now especially when u have a lack of talent


Mavs were a couple of wins away from being a top 5 team in the west with half of the roster injured. What do you mean they are not a playoff team? This team is one enforcer or a reliable 3rd option away from advancing into the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Why wouldn't Mavs build around Luka right now? He's all NBA 1st team and top 4 MVP player already. He's the next Lebron in the making. How do you NOT build around player like that?

Also, what the hell do people see in Melo? He can't shoot, can't defend, weak as hell and plays in a mediocre league at best. Would be an absolute horrible pick next to Luka. Brunson is much better...
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#426 » by Pinkyring » Sat Oct 3, 2020 1:41 am

Archx wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
But there's some positions in more need than others.

The Mavs aren't going to draft a player who needs the ball a lot to be effective. If we were drafting #1 in this year's draft, we would not be drafting LaMelo Ball. We would be drafting a piece than would complement Doncic, not compete with him for minutes. I'm pretty sure you know this already, you're just not thinking it through.

If melo is bpa u absolutely draft him, they wouldn't be competing for minutes dude there are plenty to go around and again we don't have the luxury to draft for need, we are barely a playoff team, u don't build around luka right now especially when u have a lack of talent


Mavs were a couple of wins away from being a top 5 team in the west with half of the roster injured. What do you mean they are not a playoff team? This team is one enforcer or a reliable 3rd option away from advancing into the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Why wouldn't Mavs build around Luka right now? He's all NBA 1st team and top 4 MVP player already. He's the next Lebron in the making. How do you NOT build around player like that?

Also, what the hell do people see in Melo? He can't shoot, can't defend, weak as hell and plays in a mediocre league at best. Would be an absolute horrible pick next to Luka. Brunson is much better...

I said we are barely a playoff team and we are we were a 7th seed. The melo argument was saying guy randomly bringing him up under the assumption that we h r the number 1 pick md he is bpa. As for building around luka yes u do but not at the expensr of talent, the argument was fit vs bpa and i will always be bpa as long ss we're a borderline playoff team, we don't have enough talent to warrant trying for fit
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#427 » by JJP » Sat Oct 3, 2020 1:54 am

Pinkyring wrote:I said we are barely a playoff team and we are we were a 7th seed. The melo argument was saying guy randomly bringing him up under the assumption that we h r the number 1 pick md he is bpa. As for building around luka yes u do but not at the expensr of talent, the argument was fit vs bpa and i will always be bpa as long ss we're a borderline playoff team, we don't have enough talent to warrant trying for fit


Best player available according to who??? ESPN?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#428 » by Pinkyring » Sat Oct 3, 2020 1:58 am

JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:I said we are barely a playoff team and we are we were a 7th seed. The melo argument was saying guy randomly bringing him up under the assumption that we h r the number 1 pick md he is bpa. As for building around luka yes u do but not at the expensr of talent, the argument was fit vs bpa and i will always be bpa as long ss we're a borderline playoff team, we don't have enough talent to warrant trying for fit


Best player available according to who???

Your scouts dude not some ESPN draft board. If you're on the clock u dont take an 80 rated player over an 85 rated player because he fits better, now if its 80 vs 81 sure but if there a talent gap u always go with talent. Mavs should have been all over jimmy butler this summee but clearly they didn't.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#429 » by JJP » Sat Oct 3, 2020 2:03 am

Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:I said we are barely a playoff team and we are we were a 7th seed. The melo argument was saying guy randomly bringing him up under the assumption that we h r the number 1 pick md he is bpa. As for building around luka yes u do but not at the expensr of talent, the argument was fit vs bpa and i will always be bpa as long ss we're a borderline playoff team, we don't have enough talent to warrant trying for fit


Best player available according to who???

Your scouts dude not some ESPN draft board.


And that's exactly my point!!!!

I think your problem is that you think you know how to do the math better than the Mavs front office does.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#430 » by Pinkyring » Sat Oct 3, 2020 2:06 am

JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
Best player available according to who???

Your scouts dude not some ESPN draft board. If you're on the clock u dont take an 80 rated player over an 85 rated player because he fits better, now if its 80 vs 81 sure but if there a talent gap u always go with talent.


And that's exactly my point!!!!

I think your problem is that you think you know how to do the math better than the Mavs front office does.

Wtf are u talking about i never said that or implied it
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#431 » by JJP » Sat Oct 3, 2020 2:11 am

Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Your scouts dude not some ESPN draft board. If you're on the clock u dont take an 80 rated player over an 85 rated player because he fits better, now if its 80 vs 81 sure but if there a talent gap u always go with talent.


And that's exactly my point!!!!

I think your problem is that you think you know how to do the math better than the Mavs front office does.

Wtf are u talking about i never said that or implied it


What I'm saying is that it's not arithmetic. Every team doesn't score the a player the same way, and the team's weaknesses factors in.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#432 » by Pinkyring » Sat Oct 3, 2020 2:24 am

JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
And that's exactly my point!!!!

I think your problem is that you think you know how to do the math better than the Mavs front office does.

Wtf are u talking about i never said that or implied it


What I'm saying is that it's not arithmetic. Every team doesn't score the a player the same way, and the team's weaknesses factors in.

Team weakness should have zero to do with evaluating a player
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#433 » by jpengland » Sat Oct 3, 2020 6:20 am

Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:I said we are barely a playoff team and we are we were a 7th seed. The melo argument was saying guy randomly bringing him up under the assumption that we h r the number 1 pick md he is bpa. As for building around luka yes u do but not at the expensr of talent, the argument was fit vs bpa and i will always be bpa as long ss we're a borderline playoff team, we don't have enough talent to warrant trying for fit


Best player available according to who???

Your scouts dude not some ESPN draft board. If you're on the clock u dont take an 80 rated player over an 85 rated player because he fits better, now if its 80 vs 81 sure but if there a talent gap u always go with talent. Mavs should have been all over jimmy butler this summee but clearly they didn't.


Too. Much. NBA2k.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#434 » by jpengland » Sat Oct 3, 2020 6:23 am

Pinkyring wrote:
jpengland wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:If melo is bpa u absolutely draft him, they wouldn't be competing for minutes dude there are plenty to go around and again we don't have the luxury to draft for need, we are barely a playoff team, u don't build around luka right now especially when u have a lack of talent


You dont build around Luka......

But back to the point, Melo isn't the BPA if he's not being put in a role to succeed here as he won't reach his potential.

This isn't NBA2K where you draft guys and they develop in as linear manner. There are 1001 variables in play and many of them directly or indirectly relate to fit

Great players figure fit oit, period lebron and wade were a terrible fit yet bvb they made it work, people want giannis he's a terrible fit with luka but they'll figure it out. U don't use an asset on an inferior player that's just ridiculous. Again tho, this team isn't set at any position so need shouldn't even be a thought


Wade, LeBron, Giannis.

All three are proven generational talents. Yes of course if you can get your hands on established top 30 players of all time, yes you mostly ignore fit.

We are talking drafting here (18 and 31 in a **** draft at that) . Where even with the best scouting only tells you so much due to the 1001 variables that come into play into where a guy lands on a very broad spectrum of potential outcomes.

So of course you look at things like positional and role scarcity, available minutes, fit with your established players, fit with your teams playing style and yes how they will fit with your star.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#435 » by arkuo » Sat Oct 3, 2020 6:02 pm

I'm on the "trade the draft pick" team as after Donnie drafted Luka, those things happens once in 10 years, Dallas is bound to draft 9 busts before Donnie gets another good pick again. Not holding my breath on Donnie winning the lottery twice in this decade.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#436 » by JJP » Sat Oct 3, 2020 8:02 pm

arkuo wrote:I'm on the "trade the draft pick" team as after Donnie drafted Luka, those things happens once in 10 years, Dallas is bound to draft 9 busts before Donnie gets another good pick again. Not holding my breath on Donnie winning the lottery twice in this decade.


While I'm good with trading a pick, I'm not sure it's going to be that easy. It's a very condensed window of time.

The other option that's possible (but no more likely) is to trade up. You might be able to trade #18 and #31 in order to get to maybe #14. That changes your options quite a bit. Players like Kira Lewis and Saddiq Bey are more likely still on the board then.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#437 » by jpengland » Sat Oct 3, 2020 9:00 pm

JJP wrote:
arkuo wrote:I'm on the "trade the draft pick" team as after Donnie drafted Luka, those things happens once in 10 years, Dallas is bound to draft 9 busts before Donnie gets another good pick again. Not holding my breath on Donnie winning the lottery twice in this decade.


While I'm good with trading a pick, I'm not sure it's going to be that easy. It's a very condensed window of time.

The other option that's possible (but no more likely) is to trade up. You might be able to trade #18 and #31 in order to get to maybe #14. That changes your options quite a bit. Players like Kira Lewis and Saddiq Bey are more likely still on the board then.


Unless we fall in love with somebody I definitely don't want to trade up.

This is a flat draft and an absolute crapshoot. I have settled on being happy to include either in a bigger trade or to just take the two best 3 and D prospect wings and hope one of them pans out.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#438 » by Teffer10 » Sat Oct 3, 2020 9:29 pm

jpengland wrote:
JJP wrote:
arkuo wrote:I'm on the "trade the draft pick" team as after Donnie drafted Luka, those things happens once in 10 years, Dallas is bound to draft 9 busts before Donnie gets another good pick again. Not holding my breath on Donnie winning the lottery twice in this decade.


While I'm good with trading a pick, I'm not sure it's going to be that easy. It's a very condensed window of time.

The other option that's possible (but no more likely) is to trade up. You might be able to trade #18 and #31 in order to get to maybe #14. That changes your options quite a bit. Players like Kira Lewis and Saddiq Bey are more likely still on the board then.


Unless we fall in love with somebody I definitely don't want to trade up.

This is a flat draft and an absolute crapshoot. I have settled on being happy to include either in a bigger trade or to just take the two best 3 and D prospect wings and hope one of them pans out.

Yeah, I'm only trading up for Vassell. He appears to be a building piece that would fit well into our system and brings something we desperately need. I doubt #18 and #31 get us high enough for him but if he would happen to slip down far enough I'd definitely give up both picks for him.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#439 » by JJP » Sat Oct 3, 2020 9:50 pm

I rather doubt there's anyone at #12-15 that is substantially more likely to be a success, but I don't have access to what the front office knows. I fully expect some player of interest will fall to the Mavs at #18, but at this point just about all the options have about an equal chance of playing out.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick) 

Post#440 » by Roddy B for 3 » Wed Oct 7, 2020 8:57 am

The Mavericks are on the clock on our NBA draft subforum. Getting some Maverick fans to vote would be great!
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