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RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston

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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#61 » by Archx » Sat Feb 1, 2020 2:55 pm

arkuo wrote:Look. We're all after the same thing. What we're trying to avoid is Luka being another James Harden. That type of play wont get anything done in the postseason. Sure he can be the youngest 20 year old to score 70 pts doing so. But what we are after is a championship. That type of play has not been successful. Just look at the Rockets every year the past 6 years.



Where is this narrative that Luka is playing like Harden coming from? There is a ton of players in the NBA that you can say they play like Harden. I understand that step backs bring this narrative closer to the truth but Luka never ever played like him.
Maybe because of drawing fouls? Hell, even Trae Young is drawing more fouls than Doncic lately and gets incredibly favorable calls.

Doncic is 5th in the NBA at potential assists at 16.3, Harden 14.1.
Doncic is 3rd in the NBA at points created off of assists, Harden 10th.


This team will win games on defense, that's almost a fact. Their offense can be scary good but their defense can be scary bad. Houston got the the rim anytime they wanted and KP almost made no difference. Even though i haven't seen Harden get blocked as many times as he did vs Mavs, Houston still managed to win and that's the bottom line.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#62 » by DJ_3_Ball » Sat Feb 1, 2020 2:56 pm

Bob8 wrote:On the other hand, I’m sure you can trade Luka for a player, who will fit better with KP. ;)


The question was why is KP shooting better without Luka than with Luka. Not what's the most ludicrous thing you can think of. Lol
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#63 » by Dirk » Sat Feb 1, 2020 3:15 pm

With Luka on the floor, the team shoots TS% 0.592 (better than the Bucks league leading mark) vs TS% 0.553 when is off. KP's TS% without Luka is 0.539 (better than the one with Luka which is intriguing, but think back to the early season). KP's TS% w/out Luka is below average, it's not something "you build around".

Luka/KP have had the best net rating on the team for awhile. That was the best 2-man lineup on the team. That's what primarily matters. KP not shooting great and making an impact was a great sign.

KP looked better in December without Luka mainly because of his defense. KP had a really bad start to the season as well, he got better simply by not taking certain shots. He got better because he started to not rush as much, he drove the ball more, pump faked people, etc. He got better progressively, but never to the point of becoming some great offensive player.

You can go look at those games and show us how his offense was all that different than when he played with Luka. It wasn't dramatically different because he was still playing with Powell next to him...

Luka goes down --- yeah, you will see more touches for everyone else. I.e, Seth Curry was a major impact player with Luka out. Brunson as well. Everyone else gets a bump with your main guy out. Doesn't mean you're better off with that.

There's some wonky going on here.

The first thing is that people are commenting after a game where the other team played with no center or power forward. The whole game. Think about it... they didn't play anyone that resembled a center.

The second is that the Mavs were terrible defensively. So are we really going to care that we score 30 if we give up 41? (and I am not blaming KP here, it's a lineup issue).

The goal isn't to see KP scoring more points. The goal is to win more games. You will win more games with KP anchoring a good defense. As opposed to riding him on offense and them bleeding points on defense.

I would be totally okay with saying, "let's try to develop KP's offensive game", that's fine. But it's just flat out wrong to pretend that he is anywhere near what you get with other action.

Everyone wants to see KP be more involved on offense. But the fact is... he has not shown the ability to consistently produce when put in the positions that people advocate he should be put on. If you say you should do more of that... that's fine... but that implies you are okay with inferior offensive output. Because there is no doubt about it --- you are so much better off with Luka driving and kicking or laying it up than with you dumping the ball to KP on the elbow.

I am actively rooting for KP to build on what he did yesterday: draw fouls, finish inside. Shoot better. And hey, it'd be great if at the end of this run he looked like he held his own and shot well overall.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#64 » by Bob8 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 3:18 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
Bob8 wrote:On the other hand, I’m sure you can trade Luka for a player, who will fit better with KP. ;)


The question was why is KP shooting better without Luka than with Luka. Not what's the most ludicrous thing you can think of. Lol


KP has played 6 games without Luka. I hope you agree, that’s very small sample size. And if you insist to go with small sample size, we have,

- Mavs without KP 7/4
- Mavs without Luka 2/4

Very small sample size, but you insisted.

RC is obviously building a team around Luka and not KP. If KP starts shooting at least with average efficiency, he will get more shots for sure. He has great opportunity to show his real value, but some wins should come too, especially with this soft schedule.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#65 » by Bob8 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 3:32 pm

OpiumDose wrote:
Sara2009 wrote:Aren’t there numbers showing that KP gets more Luka passes( or assists?) than any other player? I remember a graphic being shown on the screen during one of the games.


He does pass bit more often to KP than to others - top-3 as follows:

KP: 10.3
Finney-Smith: 9.9
THJ: 9.4

But lot of those passes to KP are useless - he often hands him the ball at the 3pt line and then gets handed it back a moment later.
As for the assists - it's clear that KP is not the primary target for the assists - very even distribution:

THJ : 1.5
KP: 1.4
Powell: 1.4
Finney-Smith: 1.3
Kleber: 1.3


It’s difficult to have many assists if you’re passing to a guy, who shoots under 40% FG.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#66 » by Dirk » Sat Feb 1, 2020 3:51 pm

The team is different than in December. They are very handicapped right now... they started Barea, Ryan B... think about that...

I'd feel very confident if this was the December team. They were solid on defense. It is not and they'll be underdogs for the foreseeable future.

Don't make this a KP vs Luka thing. Although describing Luka's game as "dribbling" is kind of irritating. As is the comparisons to Harden,when Luka is still looking to pass and involve people more than anything else. But I don't think anyone disputes Luka's importance.

The main contention is: with Luka, KP has had more than enough touches. And he failed to produce at a good level. Simple as that. If you are adamant that "it's Luka's fault", then well... good luck with that because KP's offense will be hard pressed to touch Luka's generated offense (best off rtg and all).

Still think that we have to make sure KP is able to play great defense and clean things up there before we think about offense. So nights like yesterday are not ideal. We need to play much better defense and help KP make his impact there before thinking about his own offense... if we want to win games.

Root for everyone. Don't trash anyone to prop up someone else. Everyone wants to see the best. And we should cheer everyone haha. I highly doubt inside the team KP/Luka don't talk and aren't looking to build better chemistry and more regular looks for KP. I'd hate to think that there's any soap opera stuff going on.

One of the things I enjoyed the most about KP is that he does dirty work and is not afraid to sacrifice his body to make effort plays. He'll be the first to admit he hasn't shot well overall, so don't feed the soap opera narratives of "being sad" and Luka "neuters" him. Playing with Luka should be the best thing for pretty much any offensive player.

I would love to see KP come out of this run with a very solid looking offensive production. I'll come back to this at the end of this run without Luka. But by god...don't start counting wins/losses and nit picking individuals because of forum discussions. :lol:
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#67 » by DJ_3_Ball » Sat Feb 1, 2020 3:52 pm

Dirk wrote:... On the other you have this KP stuff without Luka as if Luka is limiting KP... I think the narrative of Luka limits KP, KP sad to be reduced to a minor role, etc etc is just so over the top. I'm pretty sure Luka is the type of guy to go up to KP and ask him: what can I do for you? ...

KP gets more than enough looks with Luka (and when Luka sits) to show his scoring prowess. When I say more than enough --- just look at a run of games and then go check the shots he gets. You get a decent enough sample. Then you can go look at the efficiency levels. He more often than not is not able to be efficient. And why? Assuming you watch enough... too many of his shots have little hope of going in. You literally have some possessions that 'are empty', thrown away really,between him rushing shots and shying away from contact, he is throwing some prayers. It sucks, but KP just is not there offensively for you to pretend like you can just dump the ball to him and he'll create something good consistently...


Definitely don't disagree that KP is not taking good shots. He does a lot of these "post ups" (if you can even call them that) 12-14 feet away from the basket at the elbow extended or lower vs smaller players, and he turns it into this very odd looking fadeaway where like half his body is turned around and his lower half is still trying to get there & it just looks awful. He looks gangly & bad the way Shawn Bradley use to at times. He rarely looks fluid in the post and he rarely gets his shoulder square with the basket before he shoots, like ya know pretty much any NBA player who has ever shot a fadeaway.

When Charles & Shaq are talking about KP going into the post more, I'm like have you seen how bad this guy looks in the post?

And KP rushes shots too much. On the brightside, he doesn't lack confidence, which is fantastic & he's been coming around on that as the season has progressed (minus the 10 game setback). He also has really come forward on putting the ball on the floor & getting to the basket. To me that's his form of posting up. There isn't a defender quick enough & long enough to keep him from getting that long body into the paint and either shooting a layup or a floater. It hasn't always been effective, but it's what you want to see from a big. Dirk was a master at that. You can't just be a 3 point shooter & KP's continued to improve on that.

I think what a lot of people are wondering is where are the Luka "makes the game easier" for KP assists? Where are those???

People are talking like you can just pass the ball off to KP & that's it. Not for a great player. If you're a creator, or suppose to be, on the level of LeBron/Kidd/Nash/Magic/etc... then you are suppose to get your teammates easy baskets.

It's not happening, not near to the level it's suppose to for a guy (Luka) who is much ballyhooed for the playmaker, creates for teammates narrative. What you do see is plenty of opportunities for Luka to work something to KP & it winds being 10 seconds of Luka dribble, dribble, dribble, heave a 27 foot stepback 3 that bricks. One time a game of that is one time too many, but we're seeing it one time a quarter, if not more often some games. Sure, Luka is young & all of that, and the only way for him to improve that shot is to take it & make it more often... but, I don't have any problem with folks pointing that out.

At the end of the day, I look at KP, and I think there's a reason this guy is being paid like a max player. Powell is an $11 mil a year player, but the Mavs are using him in the PnR with Luka over KP. It's probably more effective than KP is right now, but that's not what we were told at the beginning of the season. Cuban told us Luka & KP can be the next Dirk & Nash, but we haven't even seen them really get to work on that. There's been limited progress at best.

I just think the ceiling for Luka & KP on PnRs Pick n Pops is so much higher than Luka & Powell that it's a crime not to start developing it. The fruits of that labor would be more easy baskets, created by Luka, but it just rarely happens.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#68 » by DJ_3_Ball » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:04 pm

Bob8 wrote:It’s difficult to have many assists if you’re passing to a guy, who shoots under 40% FG.


I think a few folks on here are getting butthurt about comments with Luka.

Hey, that 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team had NO business being in the NBA Finals. Zero business being there. But, LeBron lifted them up. It is possible to take a below average player and have them produce at an average or above average level. If you're a great player.

No one is saying that Luka is not a great player or "hurts" KP or anything like that. I think what is being said is there is work to be done. Luka has work to do. That start he got off to this year really hid the fact that he is not a perfect player & he does have work to do.

Yes, it's an indictment on Luka that KP is shooting this poorly. Because he should be able to create enough easy looks that KP is shooting above 40%---IF Luka is that generational talent that MVP that could be the best player of all time player. Hey, he's not there yet at 20 years old & year 2. Ok. No reason to give up & trade him. Lol! (I know you were just joking about that). I'm saying nobody is jumping off the bandwagon here.

Simply saying more work needs to be done. And, yeah, I'd like to see the Mavs force it a little. When you're playing a team like the Hawks or you're up by 20 in the 4th quarter, let's get Luka & KP some reps together---particularly in the PnR. It just bothers me that Luka & Powell are getting so many more reps in PnRs than Luka & KP are.

It's like the mentality is "that doesn't work" so let's not practice it? How are you going to get it to work if you don't practice it more?
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#69 » by Bob8 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:06 pm

The biggest problem with this new Mavs reality is, before the season everyone here would have been ecstatic, if Mavs would have 29 wins at this point, but that’s suddenly not enough. Similar goes with Luka. 29/11/6 and good away win is suddenly a reason to criticise a 20 years old player player?
Reality is, Mavs are not good enough for something more than first or second round of playoffs, Luka is not good enough to bring something more. Mavs are extremely bad in D., they have no Cs, not enough wings, KP is still not playing at his max after the injury. It’s not Luka’s or KP’s fault. It’s not RC’s fault. Expectations just became unrealistic.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#70 » by OpiumDose » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:11 pm

Bob8 wrote:
OpiumDose wrote:
Sara2009 wrote:Aren’t there numbers showing that KP gets more Luka passes( or assists?) than any other player? I remember a graphic being shown on the screen during one of the games.


He does pass bit more often to KP than to others - top-3 as follows:

KP: 10.3
Finney-Smith: 9.9
THJ: 9.4

But lot of those passes to KP are useless - he often hands him the ball at the 3pt line and then gets handed it back a moment later.
As for the assists - it's clear that KP is not the primary target for the assists - very even distribution:

THJ : 1.5
KP: 1.4
Powell: 1.4
Finney-Smith: 1.3
Kleber: 1.3


It’s difficult to have many assists if you’re passing to a guy, who shoots under 40% FG.


As you see in the "Passes" breakdown - there's not much difference there either between KP, Finney-Smith and THJ - it's pretty much even distribution. And eye-test tells exact same thing - that is - that KP is not a clear 2nd option when it comes to Doncic passing the ball.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#71 » by OpiumDose » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:16 pm

Bob8 wrote:
DJ_3_Ball wrote:
Bob8 wrote:On the other hand, I’m sure you can trade Luka for a player, who will fit better with KP. ;)


The question was why is KP shooting better without Luka than with Luka. Not what's the most ludicrous thing you can think of. Lol


- Mavs without KP 7/4
- Mavs without Luka 2/4

Very small sample size, but you insisted.


And now let's look at some of the opponents they have faced.

Without Doncic: Raptors, 76ers, Bucks, Rockets, Heat, Celtics - so 0 easy games.
Without KP opponents included: Hornets, Bulls, Nets, Warriors, Kings, Blazers...

Comparing the records is absolutely ridiculous given the massive difference in the opposition in those two streaks :crazy:
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#72 » by Bob8 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:17 pm

OpiumDose wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
OpiumDose wrote:
He does pass bit more often to KP than to others - top-3 as follows:

KP: 10.3
Finney-Smith: 9.9
THJ: 9.4

But lot of those passes to KP are useless - he often hands him the ball at the 3pt line and then gets handed it back a moment later.
As for the assists - it's clear that KP is not the primary target for the assists - very even distribution:

THJ : 1.5
KP: 1.4
Powell: 1.4
Finney-Smith: 1.3
Kleber: 1.3


It’s difficult to have many assists if you’re passing to a guy, who shoots under 40% FG.


As you see in the "Passes" breakdown - there's not much difference there either between KP, Finney-Smith and THJ - it's pretty much even distribution. And eye-test tells exact same thing - that is - that KP is not a clear 2nd option when it comes to Doncic passing the ball.


Why he should be 2nd option? THJ is much better in 3pts%, TS%... If anything, THJ should be a clear second option. Do you really want to have a player, who has 50 TS% as clear second option?
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#73 » by Bob8 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:20 pm

OpiumDose wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
DJ_3_Ball wrote:
The question was why is KP shooting better without Luka than with Luka. Not what's the most ludicrous thing you can think of. Lol


- Mavs without KP 7/4
- Mavs without Luka 2/4

Very small sample size, but you insisted.


And now let's look at some of the opponents they have faced.

Without Doncic: Raptors, 76ers, Bucks, Rockets, Heat, Celtics - so 0 easy games.
Without KP opponents included: Hornets, Bulls, Nets, Warriors, Kings, Blazers...

Comparing the records is absolutely ridiculous given the massive difference in the opposition in those two streaks :crazy:


I said it’s too small sample size and that KP will have great opportunity to show his case in next games with soft schedule.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#74 » by OpiumDose » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:31 pm

Bob8 wrote:
OpiumDose wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
It’s difficult to have many assists if you’re passing to a guy, who shoots under 40% FG.


As you see in the "Passes" breakdown - there's not much difference there either between KP, Finney-Smith and THJ - it's pretty much even distribution. And eye-test tells exact same thing - that is - that KP is not a clear 2nd option when it comes to Doncic passing the ball.


Why he should be 2nd option? THJ is much better in 3pts%, TS%... If anything, THJ should be a clear second option. Do you really want to have a player, who has 50 TS% as clear second option?


OK, now you are just talking nonsense. I'm done with you.
Seriously, if you have to ask why KP, an all-star, max-contract guy, should be the 2nd option over a role-player like THJ, then you are either deluded or trolling :lol:

I'd have a lot to say about your implication that the only reason KP is currently not getting the ball is because he hasn't been shooting well, but I think I'll not go to the trouble of writing it out because of your dense responses to other posts :crazy:
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#75 » by Bob8 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 4:42 pm

OpiumDose wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
OpiumDose wrote:
As you see in the "Passes" breakdown - there's not much difference there either between KP, Finney-Smith and THJ - it's pretty much even distribution. And eye-test tells exact same thing - that is - that KP is not a clear 2nd option when it comes to Doncic passing the ball.


Why he should be 2nd option? THJ is much better in 3pts%, TS%... If anything, THJ should be a clear second option. Do you really want to have a player, who has 50 TS% as clear second option?


OK, now you are just talking nonsense. I'm done with you.
Seriously, if you have to ask why KP, an all-star, max-contract guy, should be the 2nd option over a role-player like THJ, then you are either deluded or trolling :lol:

I'd have a lot to say about your implication that the only reason KP is currently not getting the ball is because he hasn't been shooting well, but I think I'll not go to the trouble of writing it out because of your dense responses to other posts :crazy:


He’s not all star or max. contract worthy guy at the moment. Mavs obviously hope he will get much better. And yes, THJ is better player in offense for the Mavs at the moment. Hopefully KP will be much better next season. And offense is not the only reason, why KP is in the Mavs.

You sound like Kp is getting less than 10 shots per game. KP has the worst EFG% in the Mavs, which should tell you something about his shooting.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#76 » by DJ_3_Ball » Sat Feb 1, 2020 5:00 pm

OpiumDose wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
OpiumDose wrote:
As you see in the "Passes" breakdown - there's not much difference there either between KP, Finney-Smith and THJ - it's pretty much even distribution. And eye-test tells exact same thing - that is - that KP is not a clear 2nd option when it comes to Doncic passing the ball.


Why he should be 2nd option? THJ is much better in 3pts%, TS%... If anything, THJ should be a clear second option. Do you really want to have a player, who has 50 TS% as clear second option?


OK, now you are just talking nonsense. I'm done with you.
Seriously, if you have to ask why KP, an all-star, max-contract guy, should be the 2nd option over a role-player like THJ, then you are either deluded or trolling :lol:

I'd have a lot to say about your implication that the only reason KP is currently not getting the ball is because he hasn't been shooting well, but I think I'll not go to the trouble of writing it out because of your dense responses to other posts :crazy:


Yeah, I don't think you have to go much further than the very basic, easy-to-digest idea of who would have more value on the trade market: KP or THJ?

I think KP wins that by a landslide... So, how about invest in the guy who is more valuable & see what the returns are a few years from now; instead of quoting shooting %s through the first half of a season (a season where one of the players is returning from a major injury).

Just a heads up. Bob8 isn't a bad dude or anything. Has some interesting takes from time to time. But, he is absolutely the prince of putting words in your mouth. Sometimes you just have to end a debate with him or you'll just go in circles.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#77 » by DJ_3_Ball » Sat Feb 1, 2020 5:03 pm

How about just the facts that KP & Luka have only played maybe 30 games together & KP played as the featured scorer in New York for the better part of 3 seasons. So, when Luka is out, KP looks better because he has more experience in that role.

I think it could really be that simple.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#78 » by Archx » Sat Feb 1, 2020 5:03 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
Bob8 wrote:It’s difficult to have many assists if you’re passing to a guy, who shoots under 40% FG.


I think a few folks on here are getting butthurt about comments with Luka.

Hey, that 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team had NO business being in the NBA Finals. Zero business being there. But, LeBron lifted them up. It is possible to take a below average player and have them produce at an average or above average level. If you're a great player.



Pinch yourself in the arm and remember that Doncic is freaking 20yo. He'll make stupid mistakes and consistency just won't be there for the entire season. Up and downs are expected. Still Mavs are playoff bound and he's playing at an MVP level. The fact that KP struggles with him on the floor has nothing to do with Luka if they still can't win without Doncic. I'll blame either the coach or KP himself for not getting into a better position to succeed when both play at the same time. Harden&RW also needed time to figure it out, i'm sure these two will as well eventually.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#79 » by DJ_3_Ball » Sat Feb 1, 2020 5:06 pm

Archx wrote:
DJ_3_Ball wrote:
Bob8 wrote:It’s difficult to have many assists if you’re passing to a guy, who shoots under 40% FG.


I think a few folks on here are getting butthurt about comments with Luka.

Hey, that 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team had NO business being in the NBA Finals. Zero business being there. But, LeBron lifted them up. It is possible to take a below average player and have them produce at an average or above average level. If you're a great player.



Pinch yourself in the arm and remember that Doncic is freaking 20yo. He'll make stupid mistakes and consistency just won't be there for the entire season. Up and downs are expected. Still Mavs are playoff bound and he's playing at an MVP level. The fact that KP struggles with him on the floor has nothing to do with Luka if they still can't win without Doncic. I'll blame either the coach or KP himself for not getting into a better position to succeed when both play at the same time. Harden&RW also needed time to figure it out, i'm sure these two will as well eventually.


Yes, I said something very similar in the rest of the post. We agree.
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Re: RS 19/20 - Jan. 31 Dallas at Houston 

Post#80 » by Bob8 » Sat Feb 1, 2020 5:13 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
OpiumDose wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Why he should be 2nd option? THJ is much better in 3pts%, TS%... If anything, THJ should be a clear second option. Do you really want to have a player, who has 50 TS% as clear second option?


OK, now you are just talking nonsense. I'm done with you.
Seriously, if you have to ask why KP, an all-star, max-contract guy, should be the 2nd option over a role-player like THJ, then you are either deluded or trolling :lol:

I'd have a lot to say about your implication that the only reason KP is currently not getting the ball is because he hasn't been shooting well, but I think I'll not go to the trouble of writing it out because of your dense responses to other posts :crazy:


Yeah, I don't think you have to go much further than the very basic, easy-to-digest idea of who would have more value on the trade market: KP or THJ?

I think KP wins that by a landslide... So, how about invest in the guy who is more valuable & see what the returns are a few years from now; instead of quoting shooting %s through the first half of a season (a season where one of the players is returning from a major injury).

Just a heads up. Bob8 isn't a bad dude or anything. Has some interesting takes from time to time. But, he is absolutely the prince of putting words in your mouth. Sometimes you just have to end a debate with him or you'll just go in circles.


Without patronising please.

I believed that we are talking about winning games not investing? If we’re just investing this year, than Luka@KP should take all the shots. All debates about Luka’s step backs is just totally of then, he should take as many step backs as possible to develop his shooting.

You can spin things however you want, but reality of incredibly bad KP’s efficiency won’t go away.

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