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2020 Offseason Strategy Thread

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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#241 » by Pointguard01 » Fri Sep 4, 2020 12:40 pm

jpengland wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:I just think differently than most, i don't like the idea of building around luka,this team is void talent we have 2 legit starters and a bunch of backups, a lot of u hate derozen ideas and I get it it's not ideal fitbut it's another legit starter and a guy who can command the offense if luka goes down a month.


Welcome to the Anthony Davis New Orleans Pelicans version 2.0.


New Orleans problem was that they traded for “talent” (and by talent, it was most average talent at best) to try to be incrementally better that season. Instead, they should have been building to be better 3-yrs down the line.

Luka is much more ready than Davis was (and to be honest, I don’t think Davis is a lead guy anyways), but we could put ourselves in that same situation if we try to go all-in now.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#242 » by JJP » Fri Sep 4, 2020 12:47 pm

It now appears that the 2020 free agency season is going to be impacted by the 2021 free agency season.

Here is a link on why the Mavs might be looking at acquiring Giannis during that FA period.

https://thesmokingcuban.com/2020/09/04/dallas-mavericks-why-sign-giannis-antetokounmpo/

The article is pretty weak. Not much there really. But let's look at why the Mavs may want to keep their powder dry this off-season. The most likely scenario is that Milwaukee has to trade Giannis in 2021. If they do so, the team acquiring Giannis will likely get a wink and a nod from his agent that the team he goes to will re-sign him in the 2021 free agency off-season (just like KP re-signed with the Mavs in 2020 - we knew in advance he would re-sign here when we traded for him).

So let's say Miami trades for Giannis next year and gets him. There is very little chance he signs somewhere other than Miami when he hits free agency at the end of the 2021 season. He stays in Miami. But at that point, a lot of things could conceivably happen. Miami may have to forego some contracts. Maybe the Mavs can get Tyler Herro and Kelly Olynyk from Miami. Or maybe Michael Porter and Jerami Grant are on the market since Denver has to commit most of its money to their two stars. Or (least likely) maybe Kawhi can't win it with the Clippers and decides on Dallas. But there is a lot of movement throughout the NBA where teams with money will have a rich playing field of players.

My point being that 2021 free agency season will be a good opportunity to have money even if you strike out on a max player. So the Mavs may wish to control their spending and limit their interest this season to just managing their rotation players. And that's not a bad idea.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#243 » by troza » Fri Sep 4, 2020 1:49 pm

I don't know much but Dallas must leave the door open for Giannis and have a plan b. Hopefully good young players on bad teams should be their target. Those will want to move, will improve with time and will have trade value in case something goes wrong.

Some old players only on discount as I think Dallas need a bit more to be true contenders. I would go for those players only if I though they were the missing piece on the team.

A good team with no chance to improve is on its way to loose their stars...
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#244 » by Mike lorenzo » Fri Sep 4, 2020 2:25 pm

there are some types of overpayment but that expire like: Hayward / Porter / Derozan
that are surely available .. if you stay healthy (Gordon / Otto preferences) It would make us improve .. and leave a door open to sign them again if they were great. or just let them walk .. if after Fa21 we end up with something like this:
Kp
Dfs
Hayward
Jrue or Oladipo
Luka
.. not bad...
1+1=11
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#245 » by HMFFL » Fri Sep 4, 2020 10:24 pm

According to Jabari Young of CNBC, the Spurs shopped LaMarcus Aldridge at the February deadline. 

This isn't exactly surprising as Aldridge recently turned 35 and has one year left on his deal for $24M. Young adds that rival executives suggested that the Spurs “overplayed their hand thinking they were supposed to get some giant package for him,” but he believes the Spurs may revisit the idea of trading him again this offseason. The Spurs are certainly at a crossroads these days and it will be interesting to see if they choose to make another run built around Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan or if they rebuild around their young core. 

SOURCE: CNBC

Sep 4, 2020, 10:52 AM ET




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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#246 » by gottamakeit » Sat Sep 5, 2020 2:19 am

Mike lorenzo wrote:there are some types of overpayment but that expire like: Hayward / Porter / Derozan
that are surely available .. if you stay healthy (Gordon / Otto preferences) It would make us improve .. and leave a door open to sign them again if they were great. or just let them walk .. if after Fa21 we end up with something like this:
Kp
Dfs
Hayward
Jrue or Oladipo
Luka
.. not bad...


not bad, do you think we should we targeting Kris Dunn?
I think if we bring him here we can improve his 3pt shooting. His career progress has been stunted in Chicago.
He'd add value with his defense
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#247 » by Mike lorenzo » Sat Sep 5, 2020 7:59 am

gottamakeit wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:there are some types of overpayment but that expire like: Hayward / Porter / Derozan
that are surely available .. if you stay healthy (Gordon / Otto preferences) It would make us improve .. and leave a door open to sign them again if they were great. or just let them walk .. if after Fa21 we end up with something like this:
Kp
Dfs
Hayward
Jrue or Oladipo
Luka
.. not bad...


not bad, do you think we should we targeting Kris Dunn?
I think if we bring him here we can improve his 3pt shooting. His career progress has been stunted in Chicago.
He'd add value with his defense
I would ... but I feel like Rick wouldn't play it. Notice he doesn't play Delon, he's a better offensive player than Dunn ... maybe. A. Bradley might be an option if he doesn't take his Po
1+1=11
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#248 » by arkuo » Sat Sep 5, 2020 12:05 pm

What's lost in the media frenzy focused on Giannis' next team is Khris Middleton might just be available. And as a really good 3&D player, I think he would fit the current Dallas team really well. That's essentially DFS but scoring 20 ppg. And considering how Cuban kept on chasing Danny Green, I'd imagine he'd go after Middleton too if given the chance. He's 6'8, that's big enough to defend Lebron, Kawhi or PG13. You trade for Middleton if Giannis signs the supermax extension next summer. Otherwise, wait for Giannis.

Here's the scenario. Giannis decides to sign the supermax and wants to gut it out in Milwaukee ala Dirk in Dallas. You trade for Middleton who is a great 3&D guy. Which means you still have a max slot for 2021 to sign someone like Hayward.

C- Porzingis
PF- DFS
SF- Middleton
SG- Hayward
PG- Doncic

Well, Doncic and KP are now surrounded by really good 3&D players who have no complaints being the 3rd star.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#249 » by arkuo » Sat Sep 5, 2020 2:23 pm

Also, forget Trey Burke. SIgn Lu Dort this summer for the MLE. Essentially a 21 year old Pat Beverly.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#250 » by HMFFL » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:01 pm

arkuo wrote:What's lost in the media frenzy focused on Giannis' next team is Khris Middleton might just be available. And as a really good 3&D player, I think he would fit the current Dallas team really well. That's essentially DFS but scoring 20 ppg. And considering how Cuban kept on chasing Danny Green, I'd imagine he'd go after Middleton too if given the chance. He's 6'8, that's big enough to defend Lebron, Kawhi or PG13. You trade for Middleton if Giannis signs the supermax extension next summer. Otherwise, wait for Giannis.

Here's the scenario. Giannis decides to sign the supermax and wants to gut it out in Milwaukee ala Dirk in Dallas. You trade for Middleton who is a great 3&D guy. Which means you still have a max slot for 2021 to sign someone like Hayward.

C- Porzingis
PF- DFS
SF- Middleton
SG- Hayward
PG- Doncic

Well, Doncic and KP are now surrounded by really good 3&D players who have no complaints being the 3rd star.
I just like the contract to be mentioned when discussing high profile players like Khris Middleton. I don't view his contract as a bad one yet. He would be perfect with Luka but four years with him might not be of interest.

2020-21: $33,051,724
2021-22: $35,500,000
2022-23: $37,948,276
2023-24: $40,396,552 {Player Option}

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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#251 » by dirkforpres » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:44 pm

arkuo wrote:Also, forget Trey Burke. SIgn Lu Dort this summer for the MLE. Essentially a 21 year old Pat Beverly.


He’s under contract for 3 more years
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#252 » by tski1972 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:47 pm

I’d be curious what you’d offer for Middleton, not sure you have enough.

Any interest in Bledsoe?
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#253 » by Pinkyring » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:24 pm

arkuo wrote:Also, forget Trey Burke. SIgn Lu Dort this summer for the MLE. Essentially a 21 year old Pat Beverly.

Dort isnt worth a vet minimum and is nothing like Beverly
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#254 » by JJP » Sat Sep 5, 2020 4:34 pm

Middleton and Blesdoe are nice players, but Dallas won't absorb those contracts. Middleton is getting paid more than Kawhi at present, and Bledsoe is being paid like Hardway. There's better value of there.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#255 » by Mr B » Sat Sep 5, 2020 5:44 pm

arkuo wrote:What's lost in the media frenzy focused on Giannis' next team is Khris Middleton might just be available. And as a really good 3&D player, I think he would fit the current Dallas team really well. That's essentially DFS but scoring 20 ppg. And considering how Cuban kept on chasing Danny Green, I'd imagine he'd go after Middleton too if given the chance. He's 6'8, that's big enough to defend Lebron, Kawhi or PG13. You trade for Middleton if Giannis signs the supermax extension next summer. Otherwise, wait for Giannis.

Here's the scenario. Giannis decides to sign the supermax and wants to gut it out in Milwaukee ala Dirk in Dallas. You trade for Middleton who is a great 3&D guy. Which means you still have a max slot for 2021 to sign someone like Hayward.

C- Porzingis
PF- DFS
SF- Middleton
SG- Hayward
PG- Doncic

Well, Doncic and KP are now surrounded by really good 3&D players who have no complaints being the 3rd star.


If the Mavs miss out on Giannis they could conceivably sign Middleton and Jonathan Issac.


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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#256 » by arkuo » Sat Sep 5, 2020 6:32 pm

tski1972 wrote:I’d be curious what you’d offer for Middleton, not sure you have enough.

Any interest in Bledsoe?


The scenario is Giannis signs the supermax and agrees to stay with the condition that there will be major roster changes. I believe Middleton is signed on for 4 more seasons, thus locking the team's moves down to a few.

With Pat Riley and Jerry West waiting for Giannis to leave, the incentive is to turn the tables on them. Tim Hardaway Jr is an expiring contract that would immediately clear Middelton off the books. That gives the Bucks another max slot and makes them players in the 2021 free agency. Get Kawhi or PG13 from the Clippers, or any of those names from the 2021 free agency. The Bucks need to build a better team around Giannis after all. That's the whole reason for staying.

A package centered around Hardaway Jr with the #18 pick this year.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#257 » by arkuo » Sun Sep 6, 2020 9:07 am

HMFFL wrote:
2020-21: $33,051,724
2021-22: $35,500,000
2022-23: $37,948,276
2023-24: $40,396,552 {Player Option}

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I think this is even a plus in my book. That's a $40M expiring contract in 2024. And he expires the same time as KP. So if KP doesn't work out, you let him and Middleton walk at the same time. That's two max cap slots open at the same time. Keep Luka and reload everything for another run. So if they get Middleton now, they have around 3 seasons to make a push for the playoffs and the finals. If it doesnt work out, reload and try again. Luka will only be 25 then, KP 29.

Some notable names for the 2024 Free agent class to replace Middleton when his contract runs out:
- Devin Booker
- Pascal Siakam
- Karl Anthony Towns
- Jaylen Brown
- Buddy Heild

For conversation sake, I would prefer Jaylen Brown, but with two max slots open, you can somewhat guarantee a Karl Towns and a Devin Booker reunion in Dallas. Booker and Luka on the same team is a spacing wonder.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#258 » by deb » Sun Sep 6, 2020 1:08 pm

tski1972 wrote:I’d be curious what you’d offer for Middleton, not sure you have enough.

Any interest in Bledsoe?


I'm undecided on Bledsoe. He'd be the best perimeter defender on the team and could put up 15/5/5 averages. Him not being a true pg wouldn't be as much of a problem for the mavs, as they already have Luka. And Bledsoe's contract is not terrible. However, the mavs already have a similar type of player (if not as good as) in Delon Wright and Carlisle barely uses him, so the fit for the mavs system is questionable. What would the Bucks want for him?

arkuo wrote:
Spoiler:
HMFFL wrote:
2020-21: $33,051,724
2021-22: $35,500,000
2022-23: $37,948,276
2023-24: $40,396,552 {Player Option}

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app


I think this is even a plus in my book. That's a $40M expiring contract in 2024. And he expires the same time as KP. So if KP doesn't work out, you let him and Middleton walk at the same time. That's two max cap slots open at the same time. Keep Luka and reload everything for another run. So if they get Middleton now, they have around 3 seasons to make a push for the playoffs and the finals. If it doesnt work out, reload and try again. Luka will only be 25 then, KP 29.

Some notable names for the 2024 Free agent class to replace Middleton when his contract runs out:
- Devin Booker
- Pascal Siakam
- Karl Anthony Towns
- Jaylen Brown
- Buddy Heild

For conversation sake, I would prefer Jaylen Brown, but with two max slots open, you can somewhat guarantee a Karl Towns and a Devin Booker reunion in Dallas. Booker and Luka on the same team is a spacing wonder.


But really, why would the Bucks trade Middleton to the Mavs? If they keep Giannis, they will only trade Middleton for a player, that makes them better, which Dallas can't (won't? - KP is of the table imo) give them. Just cap space is not all that useful to a small market team like the Bucks. If Giannis leaves, then they'll want young players with upside and/or picks for Middleton. Again something the Mavs can't really provide.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#259 » by arkuo » Sun Sep 6, 2020 1:35 pm

deb wrote:
But really, why would the Bucks trade Middleton to the Mavs? If they keep Giannis, they will only trade Middleton for a player, that makes them better, which Dallas can't (won't? - KP is of the table imo) give them. Just cap space is not all that useful to a small market team like the Bucks. If Giannis leaves, then they'll want young players with upside and/or picks for Middleton. Again something the Mavs can't really provide.


Middleton is signed on for 4 more years. no one is giving them value for Middleton as a favor to Milwaukee. They can probably get Tobias Harris from Philly, but that wont move the needle either. Giannis stays if the Bucks can convince him there will be major roster changes that will happen. Keeping Middleton there is like doing exactly the same thing and expecting a different result. Trading THJ's expiring contract + Powell + 18 for Middleton gives Milwaukee a max slot for 2021. Now they can use that to get more players that fit around Giannis. Mind you, there is no other team that is willing to give up 2021 cap space just to help the Bucks. That team is locked in for years as Lopez, Bledsoe and Middleton are on fresh new contracts. Either they give up someone for flexibility or they stay locked in with the same roster expecting a different result.

Dallas does that if Giannis decides to stay. Im not liking Dallas' chances for Giannis either. Pat Riley for Miami, Jerry West for the Clippers, and even Lacob for Golden State are just waiting like vultures waiting for Giannis to declare his departure. Donnie Nelson doesnt stand a chance against RIley or West. He looks like an amateur compared to those two. Plus they have south beach and LA weather going for them. Middleton is a really good player to play the 3rd star role behind Luka and KP. Can play off ball, shoot the 3 and defend well. You're adding a 20ppg scorer to the team, I dont see that as a bad thing, especially if the other options in 2021 (without Giannis) are Oladipo and Gobert. I'd take Middleton.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#260 » by deb » Sun Sep 6, 2020 1:50 pm

arkuo wrote:
deb wrote:
But really, why would the Bucks trade Middleton to the Mavs? If they keep Giannis, they will only trade Middleton for a player, that makes them better, which Dallas can't (won't? - KP is of the table imo) give them. Just cap space is not all that useful to a small market team like the Bucks. If Giannis leaves, then they'll want young players with upside and/or picks for Middleton. Again something the Mavs can't really provide.


Middleton is signed on for 4 more years. no one is giving them value for Middleton as a favor to Milwaukee. They can probably get Tobias Harris from Philly, but that wont move the needle either. Giannis stays if the Bucks can convince him there will be major roster changes that will happen. Keeping Middleton there is like doing exactly the same thing and expecting a different result. Trading THJ's expiring contract + Powell + 18 for Middleton gives Milwaukee a max slot for 2021. Now they can use that to get more players that fit around Giannis. Mind you, there is no other team that is willing to give up 2021 cap space just to help the Bucks. That team is locked in for years as Lopez, Bledsoe and Middleton are on fresh new contracts. Either they give up someone for flexibility or they stay locked in with the same roster expecting a different result.

Dallas does that if Giannis decides to stay. Im not liking Dallas' chances for Giannis either. Pat Riley for Miami, Jerry West for the Clippers, and even Lacob for Golden State are just waiting like vultures waiting for Giannis to declare his departure. Donnie Nelson doesnt stand a chance against RIley or West. He looks like an amateur compared to those two. Plus they have south beach and LA weather going for them. Middleton is a really good player to play the 3rd star role behind Luka and KP. Can play off ball, shoot the 3 and defend well. You're adding a 20ppg scorer to the team, I dont see that as a bad thing, especially if the other options in 2021 (without Giannis) are Oladipo and Gobert. I'd take Middleton.


And who are the Bucks signing with that capspace in 21? What stars are just dying to move to Wisconsin to play with a star, that can't produce in the playoffs? I agree, Middleton is a great addition for the mavs, I just don't believe THJ+Powell+18 gets it done, not even remotely...

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