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2020 Offseason Strategy Thread

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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#301 » by HMFFL » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:22 pm

dirkforpres wrote:
HMFFL wrote:Another option from Milwaukee is Eric Bledsoe. For the sake of the forum I'm not suggesting we trade for him but he's becoming available. I have his salary below and a link to the article.

2020-21: $16,875,000
2021-22: $18,125,000
2022-23: $19,375,000 {Non-Guaranteed}

https://theathletic.com/2056372/?source=twitterhq

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Horrid contract, but Divencenzo and Bledsoe for Powell, Wright, and 2 2nds would be a fair trade IMO
I don't believe his contract is that bad. People view him as an offensive player more but his defense needs to be mentioned.

2018-19 All-Defensive (1st)
2019-20 All-Defensive (2nd)

While I don't lean to adding Eric, options are options, and we need to improve. I just don't view him as a postseason type of player that I believe will have success as a third option.

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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#302 » by Pinkyring » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:15 pm

HMFFL wrote:
dirkforpres wrote:
HMFFL wrote:Another option from Milwaukee is Eric Bledsoe. For the sake of the forum I'm not suggesting we trade for him but he's becoming available. I have his salary below and a link to the article.

2020-21: $16,875,000
2021-22: $18,125,000
2022-23: $19,375,000 {Non-Guaranteed}

https://theathletic.com/2056372/?source=twitterhq

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Horrid contract, but Divencenzo and Bledsoe for Powell, Wright, and 2 2nds would be a fair trade IMO
I don't believe his contract is that bad. People view him as an offensive player more but his defense needs to be mentioned.

2018-19 All-Defensive (1st)
2019-20 All-Defensive (2nd)

While I don't lean to adding Eric, options are options, and we need to improve. I just don't view him as a postseason type of player that I believe will have success as a third option.

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I love Bledsoe as an option here, it'll affect 2021 csp but idc about cap room anyway, i just dont see us having the pieces. If we can add Bledsoe then take a run at Johnathan isaac next summer this team could be contenders quick
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#303 » by JJP » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:02 am

In my opinion, we are over-valuing Bledsoe as a Maverick. He's been atrocious offensively during the last two playoff years. I mean horribly bad in crucial moments. So bad the announcers mentioned it. If he had those numbers on in a Mavs playoff game, we'd be cursing him badly - regardless of his defense.

He's not so valuable on defense that you can overlook his blown layups and poor shots in big moments. He's better in the regular season, but if you're going to trade for a player with that salary, find a way to trade for Jrue Holiday.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#304 » by Pinkyring » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:46 am

JJP wrote:In my opinion, we are over-valuing Bledsoe as a Maverick. He's been atrocious offensively during the last two playoff years. I mean horribly bad in crucial moments. So bad the announcers mentioned it. If he had those numbers on in a Mavs playoff game, we'd be cursing him badly - regardless of his defense.

He's not so valuable on defense that you can overlook his blown layups and poor shots in big moments. He's better in the regular season, but if you're going to trade for a player with that salary, find a way to trade for Jrue Holiday.

Bledsoe is definitely better but he has a higher salary and we don't have the assets for him
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#305 » by JJP » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:31 am

Pinkyring wrote:Bledsoe is definitely better but he has a higher salary and we don't have the assets for him


The asset thingy is a real problem. I think that's why draft night is critical. If we are trying for a trade, the draft picks really sweeten the deal in ways our current players can't.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#306 » by Pinkyring » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:12 am

JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Bledsoe is definitely better but he has a higher salary and we don't have the assets for him


The asset thingy is a real problem. I think that's why draft night is critical. If we are trying for a trade, the draft picks really sweeten the deal in ways our current players can't.

18 and 31 in a weak draft aren't really sweeteners
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#307 » by HMFFL » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:38 am

Pinkyring wrote:
HMFFL wrote:
dirkforpres wrote:
Horrid contract, but Divencenzo and Bledsoe for Powell, Wright, and 2 2nds would be a fair trade IMO
I don't believe his contract is that bad. People view him as an offensive player more but his defense needs to be mentioned.

2018-19 All-Defensive (1st)
2019-20 All-Defensive (2nd)

While I don't lean to adding Eric, options are options, and we need to improve. I just don't view him as a postseason type of player that I believe will have success as a third option.

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I love Bledsoe as an option here, it'll affect 2021 csp but idc about cap room anyway, i just dont see us having the pieces. If we can add Bledsoe then take a run at Johnathan isaac next summer this team could be contenders quick


Sadly, he misses all of next season. I hope he has a smooth recovery.


Magic President Jeff Weltman said that Jonathan Isaac will miss the entire 2020-21 season.  

Isaac underwent surgery on his left knee to repair a torn ACL and a meniscus tear back in early August, and while an official timetable has not been revealed, it makes too much sense for Orlando to give him ample time to make a full recovery.  It's too early to talk too much about the fantasy implications for next season without knowing what Orlando does in free agency and the draft, but perhaps this means rookie Chuma Okeke will get a shot at significant minutes. 

SOURCE: Tim Reynolds on Twitter

Aug 31, 2020, 11:11 AM ET



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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#308 » by Pinkyring » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:54 am

HMFFL wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
HMFFL wrote:I don't believe his contract is that bad. People view him as an offensive player more but his defense needs to be mentioned.

2018-19 All-Defensive (1st)
2019-20 All-Defensive (2nd)

While I don't lean to adding Eric, options are options, and we need to improve. I just don't view him as a postseason type of player that I believe will have success as a third option.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

I love Bledsoe as an option here, it'll affect 2021 csp but idc about cap room anyway, i just dont see us having the pieces. If we can add Bledsoe then take a run at Johnathan isaac next summer this team could be contenders quick


Sadly, he misses all of nezt season. I hope he has a smooth recovery.


Magic President Jeff Weltman said that Jonathan Isaac will miss the entire 2020-21 season.  

Isaac underwent surgery on his left knee to repair a torn ACL and a meniscus tear back in early August, and while an official timetable has not been revealed, it makes too much sense for Orlando to give him ample time to make a full recovery.  It's too early to talk too much about the fantasy implications for next season without knowing what Orlando does in free agency and the draft, but perhaps this means rookie Chuma Okeke will get a shot at significant minutes. 

SOURCE: Tim Reynolds on Twitter

Aug 31, 2020, 11:11 AM ET



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Yeah that's the one reason there's a chance of getting him
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#309 » by JJP » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:46 am

Pinkyring wrote:
JJP wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Bledsoe is definitely better but he has a higher salary and we don't have the assets for him


The asset thingy is a real problem. I think that's why draft night is critical. If we are trying for a trade, the draft picks really sweeten the deal in ways our current players can't.

18 and 31 in a weak draft aren't really sweeteners


They will be. Draft picks have contract ramifications for teams even if the don't include any measurable player skills. Teams actually covet them. Draft picks always have buyers and sellers. Teams like the Clippers don't want them or need them. Their window of time is now. Teams like the 76'ers or OKC who may need salary relief or wish to rebuild, will want them.

There was a lengthy article not too long ago entitled, "Do we over-value draft picks?" I was surprised that the article took the opposite position, and that, in fact, draft picks are under-valued. This was contrary to my original position at the time, but it was a very convincing article. It was the kind of information front-offices know, and the fan base largely overlooks.

It's a little beyond the scope of a post, but essentially draft picks allow for future cap flexibility and that's in the very worst case scenario. In the best case, you get a serviceable player with almost a 4-year guarantee of manageable salary. Every team needs draft picks (depending on where they are in relation to being a playoff team) to help manage the cap. Some teams will be as eager to get draft picks as they are players.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#310 » by DBoys » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:10 am

JJP wrote:There was a lengthy article not too long ago entitled, "Do we over-value draft picks?" I was surprised that the article took the opposite position, and that, in fact, draft picks are under-valued. This was contrary to my original position at the time, but it was a very convincing article. It was the kind of information front-offices know, and the fan base largely overlooks.


Do you have a link?

1 I'm curious how they would have weighed "expected value."
2 If it is the expectation by NBA teams, then the article is proving that they do NOT have extra insight after all.
3 OTOH if it the fans' expected value that is amiss, how in the world do they think they have captured what "NBA fans" perceive as to value?

There's also the question of "when" a pick is valued, and in what context, because the value of a pick varies by date, and even by the way it is used at that moment. For example, say whatever you want about the picks that LAC sent to OKC to get Paul George, but the value of those picks was bound up in the bigger picture of getting Kawhi Leonard to sign. How do you measure THAT value, at that moment? Also, at the moment of the draft, some years the #1 pick is sky high (when you are drafting a LeBron, A Davis, Zion, etc) and in other years not so much (such as Fultz, Bennett, Bargnani, etc) so how is that year's "actual pick value" weighed?
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#311 » by JJP » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:27 am

DBoys wrote:
JJP wrote:There was a lengthy article not too long ago entitled, "Do we over-value draft picks?" I was surprised that the article took the opposite position, and that, in fact, draft picks are under-valued. This was contrary to my original position at the time, but it was a very convincing article. It was the kind of information front-offices know, and the fan base largely overlooks.


Do you have a link?

1 I'm curious how they would have weighed "expected value."
2 If it is the expectation by NBA teams, then the article is proving that they do NOT have extra insight after all.
3 OTOH if it the fans' expected value that is amiss, how in the world do they think they have captured what "NBA fans" perceive as to value?

There's also the question of "when" a pick is valued, and in what context, because the value of a pick varies by date, and even by the way it is used at that moment. For example, say whatever you want about the picks that LAC sent to OKC to get Paul George, but the value of those picks was bound up in the bigger picture of getting Kawhi Leonard to sign. How do you measure THAT value, at that moment? Also, at the moment of the draft, some years the #1 pick is sky high (when you are drafting a LeBron, A Davis, Zion, etc) and in other years not so much (such as Fultz, Bennett, Bargnani, etc) so how is that year's "actual pick value" weighed?


I went looking for it after I posted that but couldn't find it. It might have been in "The Athletic" but it would have been over a year ago. I'm still searching.

Those are all good questions.

While searching, I did find this link about draft success percentages. It is very interesting.

http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#312 » by Pointguard01 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:27 am

Pinkyring wrote:Yeah I'd go all in on jrue 3/90 type deal that way we get a 3 yr run then he and kp come off the books together and we get to hit the market again with a ton of cap. I dont think a second kp contract will be an option unless its cheap


Same here. I’d rather focus on Jrue day 1 of free agency than wait around for Giannis. While Giannis makes us the team to beat, it’s such a low chance he leaves AND he chooses us. If we can steal Jrue early in free agency, we become a really really good team.


In other news, i can’t believe we think Bledsoe would be good here. He can’t shoot and has come up empty in multiple playoffs. No thanks.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#313 » by Pinkyring » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:49 pm

Pointguard01 wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Yeah I'd go all in on jrue 3/90 type deal that way we get a 3 yr run then he and kp come off the books together and we get to hit the market again with a ton of cap. I dont think a second kp contract will be an option unless its cheap


Same here. I’d rather focus on Jrue day 1 of free agency than wait around for Giannis. While Giannis makes us the team to beat, it’s such a low chance he leaves AND he chooses us. If we can steal Jrue early in free agency, we become a really really good team.


In other news, i can’t believe we think Bledsoe would be good here. He can’t shoot and has come up empty in multiple playoffs. No thanks.

Bledsoe isnt a shooter but he can guard and serve as a secondary playmaker as well as get the rim, he isnt a perfecr player but he's an upgrade and rick is very good with guards
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#314 » by arkuo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:38 pm

Pinkyring wrote:
Pointguard01 wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Yeah I'd go all in on jrue 3/90 type deal that way we get a 3 yr run then he and kp come off the books together and we get to hit the market again with a ton of cap. I dont think a second kp contract will be an option unless its cheap


Same here. I’d rather focus on Jrue day 1 of free agency than wait around for Giannis. While Giannis makes us the team to beat, it’s such a low chance he leaves AND he chooses us. If we can steal Jrue early in free agency, we become a really really good team.


In other news, i can’t believe we think Bledsoe would be good here. He can’t shoot and has come up empty in multiple playoffs. No thanks.

Bledsoe isnt a shooter but he can guard and serve as a secondary playmaker as well as get the rim, he isnt a perfecr player but he's an upgrade and rick is very good with guards


My only concern with Bledsoe is he's pretty much like Delon Wright. Can defend and be a secondary playmaker, but cant shoot. You need someone who can shoot opposite Doncic or it messes the whole offense. Milwaukee is trading away Bledsoe willingly because he cant shoot and that is detrminental to Giannis' spacing. I can imagine him causing the same problems for Doncic.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#315 » by JJP » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:40 pm

There is an interesting article in "The Athletic" (subscription) about Giannis.

Essentially, if Giannis doesn't sign an extension as expected.... Dallas's chances go up substantially. The suitors for Giannis at present are relatively small - Milwaukee (still) Miami, Toronto, Dallas, and possibly the Clippers. However, every team except maybe Dallas would have to massage their cap space to get there. Dallas doesn't have to give up anyone. Dallas really has two great players Giannis can grow with over a fairly long period of time.

Miami and Toronto can free cap space with some effort, the Clippers with significant effort. But if I'm Giannis looking at KP and Luca, that's a pretty attractive group of players relative to these other teams.

After Giannis spoke on the subject, It now seems a bit more unlikely that Giannis explores free agency - Milwaukee will give him an extension and he would profit from signing it. But that's not a given. On the less than 50-50 chance he does not sign an extension, then Dallas's chances are at least as good as the rest of the field - maybe a hair better.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#316 » by arkuo » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:45 pm

JJP wrote:There is an interesting article in "The Athletic" (subscription) about Giannis.

Essentially, if Giannis doesn't sign an extension as expected.... Dallas's chances go up substantially. The suitors for Giannis are relatively small - Milwaukee (still) Miami, Toronto, Dallas, and possibly the Clippers. However, every team except maybe Dallas would have to massage their cap space to get there. Dallas doesn't have to give up anyone. Dallas really has two great players Giannis can grow with over a fairly long period of time.

Miami and Toronto can free cap space with some effort, the Clippers with significant effort. But if I'm Giannis looking at KP and Luca, that's a pretty attractive group of players relative to these other teams.

It now seems a bit more unlikely that Giannis explores free agency - Milwaukee will give him an extension and he would profit from signing it. But that's not a given. But on the less than 50-50 chance he does not sign an extension, then Dallas's chances are at least as good as the rest of the field - maybe a hair better.


How Giannis fits into the cap room is not the problem. The main competition there is when Riley or West get to sit with Giannis in the board room. Those two are savants compared to Donnie. It also would not surprise me if Doc Rivers locked Giannis inside his house again until he signs just like he did with Deandre. You'd imagine a contingent with Steve Balmer, Jerry West, Doc Rivers, Kawhi and PG13 can get it done.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#317 » by Pinkyring » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:23 pm

We need to call Orlando about a kleber 18 wright for Gordon deal
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#318 » by JJP » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:48 pm

arkuo wrote:How Giannis fits into the cap room is not the problem. The main competition there is when Riley or West get to sit with Giannis in the board room. Those two are savants compared to Donnie. It also would not surprise me if Doc Rivers locked Giannis inside his house again until he signs just like he did with Deandre. You'd imagine a contingent with Steve Balmer, Jerry West, Doc Rivers, Kawhi and PG13 can get it done.


All that is true, but my point is simple. Giannis may want to play with his fellow European stars. That's entirely possible.

Lately players have been calling their own shots on who they want to play with. Giannis can do that. It's not the most likely outcome at all, but it's really not that far out of reach.
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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#319 » by Mr B » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:49 pm

Pointguard01 wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:Yeah I'd go all in on jrue 3/90 type deal that way we get a 3 yr run then he and kp come off the books together and we get to hit the market again with a ton of cap. I dont think a second kp contract will be an option unless its cheap


Same here. I’d rather focus on Jrue day 1 of free agency than wait around for Giannis. While Giannis makes us the team to beat, it’s such a low chance he leaves AND he chooses us. If we can steal Jrue early in free agency, we become a really really good team.


In other news, i can’t believe we think Bledsoe would be good here. He can’t shoot and has come up empty in multiple playoffs. No thanks.

I don’t think the Mavs will go this route but there is something to be said that this may be the best route to building the team around Luka. Jrue would be a great addition to this team. I honestly can’t think of any backcourt I would take over Luka/Jrue. Throw in KP and you have a team that’s good enough to get the 4th/5th seed. Also with Powell’s return they would be able to keep KP’s minutes to about 25-30 per.

They waisted the last few years of Dirk’s prime by “keeping the powder dry” and going for the “big fish”. If they had just continued to make trades and just add good players around Dirk they might have been able to make another title run.


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Re: 2020 Offseason Strategy Thread 

Post#320 » by TingusP » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:17 pm

Pinkyring wrote:We need to call Orlando about a kleber 18 wright for Gordon deal

That's a tempting deal. My first thought is to not give up Maxi, but it would be a really well rounded starting five with Gordon at PF. They could even spend the MLE this year and still easily create $20M in cap space in 2021. If Giannis really does leave Milwaukee, Gordon could serve as the centerpiece of a sign and trade.

Luka / Brunson
THJ / Curry
DFS / MLE / #31
Gordon / Powell
KP / Boban

And maybe target Jrue Holiday in 2021?

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