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Trade Discussion 20/21

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daoneandonly
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1101 » by daoneandonly » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:24 am

Man most of you just need something to complain about..

Evan Fournier? The guy who's had one winning season his entire career, and that was 42-40. Not to mention, Irl didn't want to take back any salary.

Oladipo? The guy's been traded 4 times for a reason. He's not that good.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1102 » by agentofatlas » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:37 am

The trade is ok. They needed shooting plus JJ fits the Mavs mold of a good one way player lol.

As for the complaining, I kinda find it refreshing that a Mavs forum is critical of it's owner and front office. It's a great counter balance to reddit Mavs forum.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1103 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:40 am

I like Melli more than JJ. He's great shooter for his position, if you give him a chance. That is probably a big if though.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1104 » by Mr B » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:44 am

leolozon wrote:
ejs78 wrote:Love this.

There are definitely are times to bitch but it can't be ALL the time.
Mr B wrote:Serious question, why are some of you even Mavs fans? You clearly hate the team. Maybe you should just go be a fan of the Lakers or Clippers.


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It seems like an extreme opinion. You can dislike the way the front office does thing and still like the team. Criticizing something doesn't mean you hate it.

Do you think you should leave your significant other any time they criticize you or you criticize them?

No but I also don’t go on and on and on about how incompetent I think they are either.


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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1105 » by Mike lorenzo » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:40 am

I won't complain ... but seeing the market it could have been better. .We could have caught Theis or Bjelica who would have helped ...
1+1=11
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1106 » by ejs78 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:42 am

Mike you can complain we all do

Its just some of the non sense or extreme over reactions that drive people nuts.
Mike lorenzo wrote:I won't complain ... but seeing the market it could have been better. .We could have caught Theis or Bjelica who would have helped ...


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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1107 » by arkuo » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:37 am

My gut tells me Cuban plans to go all in on John Collins in the offseason. Full max offer. The question is if the Hawks match.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1108 » by dirkforpres » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:50 am

arkuo wrote:My gut tells me Cuban plans to go all in on John Collins in the offseason. Full max offer. The question is if the Hawks match.


Wouldn’t surprise me to see some sort of S&T for Collins.... Maybe Green, Kleber and a pick swap or something like that
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1109 » by fuller4379 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:50 am

arkuo wrote:My gut tells me Cuban plans to go all in on John Collins in the offseason. Full max offer. The question is if the Hawks match.


Unless they have a deal with Atlanta in place, that is not a good move. While they are waiting for Atlanta to match the offer, all the other free agents will sign and JRICH and THJ will be gone
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1110 » by BlueSan » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:44 am

Bob8 wrote:I like Melli more than JJ. He's great shooter for his position, if you give him a chance. That is probably a big if though.



Yeah Meli is amazing
- 33,5% from 3pt = last year
- 18,9% from 3pt = this year

That is 0,3 / 3pts game and 1,7 3pts attempts in case someone wonders

He is just in a class of his own
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1111 » by Mr B » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:00 am

ejs78 wrote:Mike you can complain we all do

Its just some of the non sense or extreme over reactions that drive people nuts.
Mike lorenzo wrote:I won't complain ... but seeing the market it could have been better. .We could have caught Theis or Bjelica who would have helped ...


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That’s the best way to put it. Obviously it’s ok to question management it just seems like it goes on and on. And if a person is going to complain when they do bad just keep the same energy when they do good.

In spite of the bad start this team is actually in a good position. Overall they’re playing a lot better. They need to get to at least the 6th seed to avoid being part of the play in. They’re only a 1.5 games back from 6th. They also have a fairly easy schedule the rest of the way. There is a very good chance they are playing their best ball by the time the playoffs start. Things are not all bad.


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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1112 » by ozwizard8 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:03 am

Mr B wrote:
ejs78 wrote:I think some of the frustration stems from Luka putting this team ahead of schedule making everyone antsy.

Mavs saw this and made a trade for KP in which they had to take on THjr salary.

Like the trade or not they took a big swing and fans aren't seeing this.
ozwizard8 wrote:
Although this is a simplification, I agree with this.
Both Gordon and Powell went for some other young prospects and or picks. Mavs doesn't have much assets to make some of those trade ideas.
That being said, I am surprised with the Oladipo getting traded for 1st round swap that means nothing and Fournier for two 2nds. I wish Mavs FO could've got one of those bargain deals. At least trading Powell away would help for cap space.
Anyway, it is what it is. I cannot blame Mavs FO for not getting the best deal of the trade deadline. But if they keep missing things after this offseason, they'll catch the heat from most.

So far JRich, J.Johnson, Redick trades were low-risk deals. I think they want to see how KP plays out if he can stay relatively healthy. And the main plan looks like 21 offseason for both FA and perhaps trades. I respect that long-term plan.


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People have to understand that this is not a video game. Becoming a great team takes time. Luka is also only 22 years old. Jordan was 28 before he won his first title. Even Curry was 27 before he won his first title.


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When you have a 22 years old superstar you don't need to get in win-now mode at all cost. The main targets should be the next years.
It's also important to see how KP plays out for this postseason. If he convinces the Mavs FO then they can fully commit in other contracts, trades as well. Right now FO tries to retain flexibility and make some low-risk trades.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1113 » by ozwizard8 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:21 am

I assume Redick to be healthy and him to find his rhythm after a month or two. If he can play like last year's Redick or the previous year with the 76ers, that'd be very fortunate for us.

People are looking at Redick as a just 3pt shooter is missing a very important consideration. OFF-BALL GAME IS BACK! Does anyone remember the set plays that let our offense find easy points? Anyone remembering the way Seth Curry running around the screens? Neither Seth nor Redick are running off-ball just for their shots. The off-ball movement creates open shots, driving lanes for others as well. It just adds another layer on the offense and it makes the offense much more fluid.

In some of those set plays, the runner (Seth) wasn't even the first or second option. Sometimes, he was just a decoy for Doncic to attack the weak side without getting a double team. Sometimes, it would create favorable switches. Or an open shot for Kleber, THJ?
Mavs ran some of those same plays with Richardson too but the efficiency of those plays decreases emphatically. When Redick run around the screen, they f'in respect his run and make sure he doesn't have any space to trigger. If its JRich or another player, they won't show up on screens aggressively.

If Redick finds his previous form, he can add what Mavs are missing this year with his off-ball movement and 3pt shots. Mavs-Carlisle doing a very fine job to bring the players back in the game.
Trey Burke was almost out of the league due to his defensive liability issues and poor offensive shot selection.
WCS was looking lost. He's still not the best BBIQ player, but he plays better and a team basketball now.
Seth Curry made a huge step with Mavs. Maxi-DFS 3pt shots are better than what would we expect 2-3 years ago.
Going back, Devin Harris flourished under Carlisle. Same JJ.Barea sucked in Wolves and got back in the game with Dallas-Carlisle.
I want to be optimistic for Redick and I think he can surprise us like the other guards who rejuvenated their careers with Mavs-Carlisle before.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1114 » by arkuo » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:25 am

fuller4379 wrote:
arkuo wrote:My gut tells me Cuban plans to go all in on John Collins in the offseason. Full max offer. The question is if the Hawks match.


Unless they have a deal with Atlanta in place, that is not a good move. While they are waiting for Atlanta to match the offer, all the other free agents will sign and JRICH and THJ will be gone



Yeah I hope they do too. They wouldn't explore deals with ATL prior to the deadline if they had no interest in Collins. But the fact that they did makes you think they'll have to discuss these again in the offseason. With KP being laterally slow given his size, having a quick PF like Collins should help. Although the biggest question mark is the asking price. This seems to need a full max to get it done.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1115 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:06 am

BlueSan wrote:
Bob8 wrote:I like Melli more than JJ. He's great shooter for his position, if you give him a chance. That is probably a big if though.



Yeah Meli is amazing
- 33,5% from 3pt = last year
- 18,9% from 3pt = this year

That is 0,3 / 3pts game and 1,7 3pts attempts in case someone wonders

He is just in a class of his own


That's what I find funny, how people who know nothing about players from Europe, have strong opinion about them. I have watched Melli many times in Europe and he's elite shooter for Pf. If you give him a chance of course.

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=002849&seasoncode=E2018#!careerstats

If you look at his last 4 years in Euroleague and domestic competition he was shooting 42% for 3 with 687 attempts.

Like I said, I don't believe RC will give him a chance, but he's potentially great shooter. Question is, if he's good enough in D.

To better understand, what kind of player we're talking about, you can look at boxscore of championship game in Euroleague. The game in which Luka became Euroleague champion and MVP of the Finals. You can guess, who would have gotten MVP, if Fener had defeated Real.

https://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=260&seasoncode=E2017#!boxscore
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1116 » by leolozon » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:41 am

Mr B wrote:
leolozon wrote:
ejs78 wrote:Love this.

There are definitely are times to bitch but it can't be ALL the time.

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It seems like an extreme opinion. You can dislike the way the front office does thing and still like the team. Criticizing something doesn't mean you hate it.

Do you think you should leave your significant other any time they criticize you or you criticize them?

No but I also don’t go on and on and on about how incompetent I think they are either.


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Who are you talking about?

Because I used the word incompetent for the first time ever.

And once again the team isn't the front office. It seems like you are mixing those two things.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1117 » by leolozon » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:53 am

ozwizard8 wrote:
Mr B wrote:
ejs78 wrote:I think some of the frustration stems from Luka putting this team ahead of schedule making everyone antsy.

Mavs saw this and made a trade for KP in which they had to take on THjr salary.

Like the trade or not they took a big swing and fans aren't seeing this.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

People have to understand that this is not a video game. Becoming a great team takes time. Luka is also only 22 years old. Jordan was 28 before he won his first title. Even Curry was 27 before he won his first title.


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When you have a 22 years old superstar you don't need to get in win-now mode at all cost. The main targets should be the next years.
It's also important to see how KP plays out for this postseason. If he convinces the Mavs FO then they can fully commit in other contracts, trades as well. Right now FO tries to retain flexibility and make some low-risk trades.


But that's what I don't get. The front office isn't doing what you are saying. They gave up a 2nd round pick that could be potentially useful in a sign and trade for 36yo Reddick. How is that thinking about the next few years? The Mavs don't have a lot of assets as it is. We have seen that 2nd round picks can get you younger players and can give you a decent guy in a sign and trade.

They sign Johnson and Burke, but don't play Green and Bey. How is that thinking about the next few years?

You are defending the front office, claiming patience as Luka is just 22, which I agree is the right to do up to a point (I would personally be ok with the strategy to gamble on a young guy like Gordon, but don't mind not doing it either.)

The problem is: that's not really what the front office is doing. Getting young guys and/or develop the ones we have is being patient.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1118 » by JJP » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:48 pm

Leolozon, the Mavs front office wants to give this lineup a chance. They've performed well lately. You can't keep shuffling the deck before one true season is finished. And while you still want upgrades of players like Gordon or N. Powell, the Mavs would have had to overpay in some other area besides draft picks - and that would likely mean giving up a starter just to make a competitive offer.

I'm disappointed, but the Mavs have decided that there's a better payoff to wait until the off-season. The bar is set for them to deliver at that time - when they will have at least seen what this lineup will do in the playoffs.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1119 » by Mike lorenzo » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:02 pm

I also think Redick has some costume value..I think he can help young guys develop..I am happy I caught him, if for example they would have turned Melli or WCS + 1 second into Theis..I would rate her as outstanding or remarkable high or tall. I'll give you a 6 / 6.5 out of 10 ... better than doing nothing ... but nothing spectacular
1+1=11
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1120 » by Mr B » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:36 pm

leolozon wrote:
Mr B wrote:
leolozon wrote:
It seems like an extreme opinion. You can dislike the way the front office does thing and still like the team. Criticizing something doesn't mean you hate it.

Do you think you should leave your significant other any time they criticize you or you criticize them?

No but I also don’t go on and on and on about how incompetent I think they are either.


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Who are you talking about?

Because I used the word incompetent for the first time ever.

And once again the team isn't the front office. It seems like you are mixing those two things.

I’m not talking about one specific person. And it’s not just the front office that some people here are always complaining about. A player like THJ has a bad shooting night and you would think he was the worst player in the NBA. Same goes for Brunson and JRich. It just gets very tiresome.


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