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Trade Discussion 20/21

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leolozon
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1121 » by leolozon » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:41 pm

Mr B wrote:
leolozon wrote:
Mr B wrote:No but I also don’t go on and on and on about how incompetent I think they are either.


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Who are you talking about?

Because I used the word incompetent for the first time ever.

And once again the team isn't the front office. It seems like you are mixing those two things.

I’m not talking about one specific person. And it’s not just the front office that some people here are always complaining about. A player like THJ has a bad shooting night and you would think he was the worst player in the NBA. Same goes for Brunson and JRich. It just gets very tiresome.


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I'll agree with that. Some people seem to have mood swings. THJ is sometimes inconsistent, but he's a fine player, does his role well and likes to play with Luka. I'm in no hurry to lose him and something really good would have to come back. I can see this version of THJ being the 5th best player on a championship team, maybe 4th if he ever becomes consistent on offense. It's just a shame his defense isn't better.

JRich is also fine if he doesn't try to do too much on offense, but I dislike when they give him the ball and let him try to create. It's a shame that his 3pt shot have went down, I was expecting at least .350 and if he doesn't go back to that, and stays at .320, I'm not sure what we should do with him considering his defense has been up and down.

As for Brunson, he's exactly what I mean when I say : "Just play the young guys." Bench players on a championship teams don't have to be found, they can be developed. Green (still wish they took Saddiq) and Bey still have the same type of potential as Brunson had. I can see a great bench squad with Green, Bey, Brunson and why not Terry considering how great his shooting is supposed to be (+ Kleber as the PF-Center I guess).

I think the team potentially have everything they need, if KP performs like he can and they find the missing starter.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1122 » by Mr B » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:50 pm

leolozon wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:
Mr B wrote:People have to understand that this is not a video game. Becoming a great team takes time. Luka is also only 22 years old. Jordan was 28 before he won his first title. Even Curry was 27 before he won his first title.


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When you have a 22 years old superstar you don't need to get in win-now mode at all cost. The main targets should be the next years.
It's also important to see how KP plays out for this postseason. If he convinces the Mavs FO then they can fully commit in other contracts, trades as well. Right now FO tries to retain flexibility and make some low-risk trades.


But that's what I don't get. The front office isn't doing what you are saying. They gave up a 2nd round pick that could be potentially useful un a sign and trade for 36yo Reddick. How is that thinking about the next few years? The Mavs don't have a lot of assets as it is. We have seen the 2nd round picks can get you younger players and can give you a decent guy in a sign and trade.

They sign Johnson and Burke, but don't play Green and Bey. How is that thinking about the next few years?

You are defending the front office, claiming patience as Luka is just 22, which I agree is the right to do up to a point (I would personally be ok with the strategy to gamble on a young guy like Gordon, but don't mind not doing it either.)

The problem is: that's not really what the front office is doing. I don't get your stance at all. Getting young guys and/or develop the ones we have is being patient.

The front office is riding a fine line between playing for the future AND trying to win now. If they benched some of their solid veterans for raw rookies you’re essentially telling everyone that you’re tanking again. You’re telling the rest of the team (Luka) screw this year, we’re going to focus on developing Green and Bey. Do you honestly think Luka is going to be ok with losing as long as they are developing Green and Bey? He’s definitely not going to be ok with that when you still have the opportunity to win but you choose to groom the young raw guys instead. If you want a sure fire way to lose Luka, that’s how you do it.

Luka still wants to win now so they have to do what they can to acquire talent (and play said talent). Is Luka still young and does he still have a ton of time to develop himself, yes but he’s also already a top 5 player so you still have to try to win. Plus you don’t have a 1st round pick in the next draft so tanking makes even less sense.

Green, Hinton and Bey will be brought along the same way guys like DFS, Curry, Powell, Barea, Maxi, and even Brandon Wright were. They get very limited minutes their first season and as long as they continue to work on their game and improve they will get more minutes each season until they are a regular part of the rotation. Just because they are not being thrown to the wolves right away doesn’t mean they are not being developed.


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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1123 » by leolozon » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:11 pm

Mr B wrote:
leolozon wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:When you have a 22 years old superstar you don't need to get in win-now mode at all cost. The main targets should be the next years.
It's also important to see how KP plays out for this postseason. If he convinces the Mavs FO then they can fully commit in other contracts, trades as well. Right now FO tries to retain flexibility and make some low-risk trades.


But that's what I don't get. The front office isn't doing what you are saying. They gave up a 2nd round pick that could be potentially useful un a sign and trade for 36yo Reddick. How is that thinking about the next few years? The Mavs don't have a lot of assets as it is. We have seen the 2nd round picks can get you younger players and can give you a decent guy in a sign and trade.

They sign Johnson and Burke, but don't play Green and Bey. How is that thinking about the next few years?

You are defending the front office, claiming patience as Luka is just 22, which I agree is the right to do up to a point (I would personally be ok with the strategy to gamble on a young guy like Gordon, but don't mind not doing it either.)

The problem is: that's not really what the front office is doing. I don't get your stance at all. Getting young guys and/or develop the ones we have is being patient.

The front office is riding a fine line between playing for the future AND trying to win now. If they benched some of their solid veterans for raw rookies you’re essentially telling everyone that you’re tanking again. You’re telling the rest of the team (Luka) screw this year, we’re going to focus on developing Green and Bey. Do you honestly think Luka is going to be ok with losing as long as they are developing Green and Bey? He’s definitely not going to be ok with that when you still have the opportunity to win but you choose to groom the young raw guys instead. If you want a sure fire way to lose Luka, that’s how you do it.

Luka still wants to win now so they have to do what they can to acquire talent (and play said talent). Is Luka still young and does he still have a ton of time to develop himself, yes but he’s also already a top 5 player so you still have to try to win. Plus you don’t have a 1st round pick in the next draft so tanking makes even less sense.

Green, Hinton and Bey will be brought along the same way guys like DFS, Curry, Powell, Barea, Maxi, and even Brandon Wright were. They get very limited minutes their first season and as long as they continue to work on their game and improve they will get more minutes each season until they are a regular part of the rotation. Just because they are not being thrown to the wolves right away doesn’t mean they are not being developed.


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I don't think it's tanking considering the veterans we have weren't good anyway.Would Bey or Green have been really worst than Johnson, Burke, Boban, Powell (Iwundu)? Even if they are slighly worst, being 5% worst now to potentially be 10-15% better in 2-3 years should be an easy call and Luka should be smart enough to understand it. Are you saying the Mavs would miss the playoffs by potentially playing the young guys more with the bench squad? I think they would still be a 7th-8th seed and the team doesn't make the 2nd round anyway without KP and JRich hitting another gear.

Maybe they are developed the same way, but to me the best way for them to get better is playing against NBA players. Just practicing isn't quite the same.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1124 » by Mr B » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:41 pm

leolozon wrote:
Mr B wrote:
leolozon wrote:
But that's what I don't get. The front office isn't doing what you are saying. They gave up a 2nd round pick that could be potentially useful un a sign and trade for 36yo Reddick. How is that thinking about the next few years? The Mavs don't have a lot of assets as it is. We have seen the 2nd round picks can get you younger players and can give you a decent guy in a sign and trade.

They sign Johnson and Burke, but don't play Green and Bey. How is that thinking about the next few years?

You are defending the front office, claiming patience as Luka is just 22, which I agree is the right to do up to a point (I would personally be ok with the strategy to gamble on a young guy like Gordon, but don't mind not doing it either.)

The problem is: that's not really what the front office is doing. I don't get your stance at all. Getting young guys and/or develop the ones we have is being patient.

The front office is riding a fine line between playing for the future AND trying to win now. If they benched some of their solid veterans for raw rookies you’re essentially telling everyone that you’re tanking again. You’re telling the rest of the team (Luka) screw this year, we’re going to focus on developing Green and Bey. Do you honestly think Luka is going to be ok with losing as long as they are developing Green and Bey? He’s definitely not going to be ok with that when you still have the opportunity to win but you choose to groom the young raw guys instead. If you want a sure fire way to lose Luka, that’s how you do it.

Luka still wants to win now so they have to do what they can to acquire talent (and play said talent). Is Luka still young and does he still have a ton of time to develop himself, yes but he’s also already a top 5 player so you still have to try to win. Plus you don’t have a 1st round pick in the next draft so tanking makes even less sense.

Green, Hinton and Bey will be brought along the same way guys like DFS, Curry, Powell, Barea, Maxi, and even Brandon Wright were. They get very limited minutes their first season and as long as they continue to work on their game and improve they will get more minutes each season until they are a regular part of the rotation. Just because they are not being thrown to the wolves right away doesn’t mean they are not being developed.


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I don't think it's tanking considering the veterans we have weren't good anyway.Would Bey or Green have been really worst than Johnson, Burke, Boban, Powell (Iwundu)? Even if they are slighly worst, being 5% worst now to potentially be 10-15% better in 2-3 years should be an easy call and Luka should be smart enough to understand it. Are you saying the Mavs would miss the playoffs by potentially playing the young guys more with the bench squad? I think they would still be a 7th-8th seed and the team doesn't make the 2nd round anyway without KP and JRich hitting another gear.

Maybe they are developed the same way, but to me the best way for them to get better is playing against NBA players. Just practicing isn't quite the same.

I actually do think playing Bey, Green, Hinton, and Terry over vets like Boban, Burke, Powell, or Redick could cost them a playoff spot. The West is a tight race right now. The Mavs need to get to the 6th seed to avoid being in the play in. A couple rookie mistakes per game could really be the difference between finishing 7th or 8th instead of 6th. Or it could be the difference in them missing the playoffs entirely. Really 1 or 2 games in the standings makes a huge difference.


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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1125 » by ejs78 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:17 pm

FYI

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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1126 » by ACMFFL » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:11 pm

He'd be a very nice pickup.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1127 » by Archx » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:56 pm

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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1128 » by KhalilS » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:41 pm

Jeff Teague was waived, not sure if injured, if not, there's a need for backup PG.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1129 » by JD45 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:12 pm

Hopefully the Mavs have some sort of off-season plan. It looks very difficult with the only good free agents either elderly or restricted. I thought this trade deadline was their last, good chance to get a major player.

I don't have much confidence in them and think they are just winging it. I suspect this entire year is just treading water with no improvement. But maybe I am wrong and they do have a Master Plan.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1130 » by HMFFL » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:41 pm

KhalilS wrote:Jeff Teague was waived, not sure if injured, if not, there's a need for backup PG.
Jeff would be a good fit until the end of the season. He can create for himself and would be beneficial. I can be positive about him since he would only be signed for the remainder of the season and not in a longterm contract @ 19m per season.

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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1131 » by KhalilS » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:49 pm

Yeah, minimum salary, in games like yesterday's he'd have 30 minutes at least, normally he'd have 15 min. max.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1132 » by Mike lorenzo » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:46 am

JRich has been terrible ... (Powell / Burke) Also, but less surprisingly, Powell is coming off a serious injury, which killed him. and Burke, well he wasn't even in the league, last year ..
Add JJ, get a very veteran rental, (injured) we don't know when he will play ..
Add the 3 rookies, who for some reason, do not step on the court
Add up that KP is out for half of the games. 7/8 Guys you can't count on ...
That's half the roster.
I still wonder, why at least they didn't try on the deadline..with more impetus .. we are supposed to trust the office ...
This season only..
-Change curry, multiple 2 round picks to turn Delon into injured JJ (is JRich better than Delon ??) ..
- We move on to S.Bey / Bane / Quickley / Maxey / Pritchar / Tillman. (All with minutes in the NBA, and a promising future) ...
-The deadline didn't even try..Gordon's Price, we could easily match, Fournier easily match, Theis ..... but nothing,
Today we play Powell / Boban playing the Playoffs (we are not left over) while Bey (at least athletic) watched from close up, how Zion **** us ... ,
At least try it, why did we select him, to sink his career ... ?? ...
I was comfortable. Hot drink, guys sorry for the huge paragraph .. it's 7 in the morning in Spain and I probably don't know what I'm talking about
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1133 » by ozwizard8 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:01 am

Mike lorenzo wrote:JRich has been terrible ... (Powell / Burke) Also, but less surprisingly, Powell is coming off a serious injury, which killed him. and Burke, well he wasn't even in the league, last year ..
Add JJ, get a very veteran rental, (injured) we don't know when he will play ..
Add the 3 rookies, who for some reason, do not step on the court
Add up that KP is out for half of the games. 7/8 Guys you can't count on ...
That's half the roster.
I still wonder, why at least they didn't try on the deadline..with more impetus .. we are supposed to trust the office ...
This season only..
-Change curry, multiple 2 round picks to turn Delon into injured JJ (is JRich better than Delon ??) ..
- We move on to S.Bey / Bane / Quickley / Maxey / Pritchar / Tillman. (All with minutes in the NBA, and a promising future) ...
-The deadline didn't even try..Gordon's Price, we could easily match, Fournier easily match, Theis ..... but nothing,
Today we play Powell / Boban playing the Playoffs (we are not left over) while Bey (at least athletic) watched from close up, how Zion **** us ... ,
At least try it, why did we select him, to sink his career ... ?? ...
I was comfortable. Hot drink, guys sorry for the huge paragraph .. it's 7 in the morning in Spain and I probably don't know what I'm talking about

You need to understand NBA dynamics. What can a team, FO can do.
Its not like Real Madrid, Barselona, Gran Canaria making transfers. If there is enough budget and a good coach, you know Madrid/Barselona would build a team for final four easily.
In NBA, there is no opportunity to spend money like that. Tanking, drafting, cap space, contracts... A lot of thinks to care about.

For most teams, it takes a lot of suffering to build a contender.
Exceptions: LAL getting Lebron and then NBA forcing AD to Lakers is different. Kawhi-PG uniting at LAC because they want to play in LA. Brooklyn Nets getting Durant is because of the market. Nets trading every pick made them suffer for many years before.

Most other teams:
- Portland-Lillard spend 10 years yet to have roster to be true contender. They never ever considered as contender that many years with a lot of moves to surround Lillard.
- Orlando never got a true superstar. They tried drafting, developing, trades, coaches but they were subpar for 10 years.
- Spurs, after Duncan-Kawhi left they're having meaningless season where no one would surprise if they finish 10th or 7th. 1st round exit anyway.
- 76ers spend hard-tanking years for what 6-7 years? Embiid drafted at 2014, and I believe this is the first true season that they're contenders. They weren't able to finish at top seed in early years.
- For Giannis-Middleton duo it also took time. For Celtics, the same story.

So, consider those and try to act patiently.
In big picture for this season:
- couple wins does not count too much. a 6th seed team can upset 3rd seed team who worked really hard to get that extra +8-10 wins.
- whats the end result? 1st round exit? 2nd round? wcf? Teams main objective is winning series in playoffs. So sitting KP, Doncic is not important. The important thing is their performance in playoffs. You want them ready.
In even broader picture:
- A GM should think for next 5-10 years. Now you have Doncic, 22 year old. Its obvious that he's still learning, growing as a man. He'll resign for max extension so you'll have him under control for next 5-6 years.
For instance, if you spend all the assets and try to win now at all cost, this plan might fail. And then when Doncic's contract extension comes, Mavs wont have the assets to build a contender and Doncic will leave.
- 21 FA is a very good, last opportunity to sign FA while Doncic having rookie deal.
- KP's health for next 5 years should be a question mark for FO. Before making other win-now moves, they'd want to see his condition. If you invest in a guard then KP gets injured, the plan would fail.

So Mavs FO, with limited assets, should act patiently.
Waiting 21 FA makes sense. Waiting KP's health, whether he can play all playoff games this season or not makes sense. Waiting for Doncic's development for some more before going all-in also makes sense.
Meanwhile, small trades are made. Those are not interfere with main 5 year plan. Curry-Richardson didnt work at all but they had reasons for trying that. D.Wright FA signing wasn't great and J.Johnson was even worse. We'll see if Redick helps. When Mavs signed Curry on FA, it was a risk too. Hindsight you see that as a successful signing but Mavs was the biggest bidder by far at the time.

FO needs to roll dice most of the time. They'll take on some bets. KP bet was big but they find the price low, reward very high. I wish them to took risk on Gordon as well but Denver did. We'll see if it works.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1134 » by 8David24 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:10 am

I gave up on KP health -tThe same **** every year. Also every year no free agent want to come to Dallas, I don’t understand why.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1135 » by 41Dirk41 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:52 pm

I'm not very high on Wood, a lot of empty stats playing in bad teams (Detroit and Houston).
Maybe he Is better than Powell (ok he is much better hahahahaha) but not a game changer for us...terrible defender and bad attitude.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1136 » by ACMFFL » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:50 pm

I like Wood but I don't give up on KP for him.

My "dream" is Jerami Grant. He's a weak rebounder but he'd be the perfect third option and he's also a good defender. But I know the price is too high at this stage.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1137 » by 41Dirk41 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:26 pm

I like him too, perfect fit for the Mavs... Brunson, Green, a pair of seconds and filler aren't enough?
Detroit is in rebulding mode.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1138 » by 41Dirk41 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:26 pm

Teague signs with Bucks
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1139 » by daoneandonly » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:07 pm

I think the role player we missed on was Larry Nance Jr. I like him better than Gordon, he's a great rebounder, can defend, can hit an open shot, and even pass a little. I hope we at least made an attempt, he's also on a declining contract, maybe DFS + Burke could have gotten it done.
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Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1140 » by ACMFFL » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:55 pm

Guys, would do you take a flyer on Smart if his value goes down and he becomes available?
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