ImageImageImage

Trade Discussion 20/21

Moderators: Texas Chuck, Dirk, HMFFL

Apz
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,415
And1: 363
Joined: Jan 18, 2019
   

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1181 » by Apz » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:42 pm

Cant see any reason ever to go for ddr, unless we sign him for like 5m in the summer. It doesnt matter if he is a good 2ndary ballhandler if he cant defend and cant shoot. Specially if playing with luka. It need to be a damn good contract for mavs and ddr accept7ng a bench role
JD45
General Manager
Posts: 7,671
And1: 180
Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1182 » by JD45 » Thu Apr 8, 2021 8:43 pm

Bnice5 wrote:I'm still interested in a potential deal with Golden State... Could you swap KP for Wiseman and Wiggins and maybe a future GS 1st. To me I just don't think KP and Luka get along. Adding to your team in this way would still allow for a free agent splash (Conley would look nice on this team)...


Either way, I think i would be good to flip KP into Wiseman and Wiggins (with or without picks) as KP better suits GS timeline and Wiseman is a better rim running option with Luka than KP will ever be.


It makes sense. I think that is why there was a rumor and likely actual contact.
"Government is the great fiction through which everyone endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else"

Frederic Bastiat
jpengland
Head Coach
Posts: 6,510
And1: 5,541
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
   

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1183 » by jpengland » Yesterday 11:23 am

Bnice5 wrote:I'm still interested in a potential deal with Golden State... Could you swap KP for Wiseman and Wiggins and maybe a future GS 1st. To me I just don't think KP and Luka get along. Adding to your team in this way would still allow for a free agent splash (Conley would look nice on this team)...

Luka / Brunson
Conley / THJ
Wiggins / Richardson / Green
Kleber / DFS / Bey
Wiseman / Powell or MLE

You could also go small if Wiseman wasn't quite ready for big minutes...

Luka / Brunson
Conley / THJ
Richardson / Green / DFS
Wiggins / DFS / Powell
Kleber / Wiseman

Either way, I think i would be good to flip KP into Wiseman and Wiggins (with or without picks) as KP better suits GS timeline and Wiseman is a better rim running option with Luka than KP will ever be.


This could tempt me.

I'd rather see if the Minny pick lands at 4 or 5 and then target KP and 27 unprotected first for Wiggins plus Minny pick, though. Evan Mobley would be an insanely good fit here and could be available. If not you likely land one of Green or Suggs who are so high ceiling you have to make that deal.

KP is a great fit in Golden State and if they could swing Wiseman for a starting 3, or else bring back Oubre, then they would be right back in the title hunt next year.
KhalilS
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 439
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1184 » by KhalilS » Yesterday 11:59 am

I don't get why you keep including JRich in your depth charts, He's not coming back, unless he opts in on his contract, Mavs have cap space next season, and JRich will eat into it, they would do much better waiving his rights and going after bigger name in FA, THJ has much better chemistry with the rest of the team.
As for Wiseman, I don't see Dallas as a player development franchise, look at who they succeeded with in the draft, an established European superstar and a college star with 3 years in quality college program on his resume, just look at the state of Tyler Terry and Tyler Bey, it's not happening, Dallas isn't Miami in that regard.
Quite frankly, I don't see any good deal for KP, mending his relationship with Luka is much easier.
daoneandonly
General Manager
Posts: 9,495
And1: 1,584
Joined: May 27, 2004
Location: Masalaland
 

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1185 » by daoneandonly » Yesterday 1:25 pm

KhalilS wrote:I don't get why you keep including JRich in your depth charts, He's not coming back, unless he opts in on his contract, Mavs have cap space next season, and JRich will eat into it, they would do much better waiving his rights and going after bigger name in FA, THJ has much better chemistry with the rest of the team.
As for Wiseman, I don't see Dallas as a player development franchise, look at who they succeeded with in the draft, an established European superstar and a college star with 3 years in quality college program on his resume, just look at the state of Tyler Terry and Tyler Bey, it's not happening, Dallas isn't Miami in that regard.
Quite frankly, I don't see any good deal for KP, mending his relationship with Luka is much easier.


The '21 FA market has completely dried up, who's better than J Rich at this point?

I do think mavs could have easily beat out Denver's offer for Gordon though. JRich, Green, and a 2nd round pick is more appealing than overpaid Harris, Hampton, and a distant first.
KhalilS
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 439
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1186 » by KhalilS » Yesterday 1:40 pm

You have Collins and Ball, young and good prospects (Ball actually fits exactly the role for JRich, defense, ball handling and spot up shooter), I don't want to go to a bidding war with NYK over him though.
Veterans you have DDR and Conley who I'd take over him, hell you can also trade for one with cap space and generate TPE, Gary Harris for Powell, for example, I'd even help NOP unload Bledsoe and earn some picks over resigning JRich, it's been 2/3 of a season, and he hasn't lived up to expectations.
daoneandonly
General Manager
Posts: 9,495
And1: 1,584
Joined: May 27, 2004
Location: Masalaland
 

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1187 » by daoneandonly » Yesterday 2:05 pm

KhalilS wrote:You have Collins and Ball, young and good prospects (Ball actually fits exactly the role for JRich, defense, ball handling and spot up shooter), I don't want to go to a bidding war with NYK over him though.
Veterans you have DDR and Conley who I'd take over him, hell you can also trade for one with cap space and generate TPE, Gary Harris for Powell, for example, I'd even help NOP unload Bledsoe and earn some picks over resigning JRich, it's been 2/3 of a season, and he hasn't lived up to expectations.


Yea thats the problem with Lonzo and Collins, both restricted, we offer them a deal and we cant do anything else. And then the team matches, then what?

You lost me at Derozen and Harris though. Richardson fits better than both. Harris and Bledsoe straight up suck. Derozen cant defend and cant space the floor, I dont see how either helps this team in any way.
KhalilS
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 439
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1188 » by KhalilS » Yesterday 2:23 pm

And JRich sucks :)
Harris has 20m next season, Powell has 22 over 2 season, you can switch them, and gamble on Harris returning to form, hw was a very good shooter.
DDR has killer midrange game, Mavs have no one to create his own shot execpt Luka and Brunson.
Bledsoe can run the PG in the 2nd unit and move Brunson to the starting lineup, Bledsoe is a good backup PG, he sucks as a main PG.
I'm not saying I want DDR or Bledsoe, I'm saying I'd rather have DDR than JRich,a dn I'd take 1 year rental of Bledsoe + pick over extending JRich for 4 years.
41Dirk41
Ballboy
Posts: 37
And1: 11
Joined: Mar 26, 2021
     

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1189 » by 41Dirk41 » Yesterday 2:37 pm

I'm not so high on Lonzo (he can't score unless he is wiiiiiiiide open) and Collins (a lot of empty stats,selfish guy who doesn't play defense) because they demand a big contract...ok they are young but unless Lonzo turns into new Kidd or Collins starts to play for win then i pass.

The alternatives are maybe worse... It's better wait another year or search for a trade.
Bnice5
Freshman
Posts: 57
And1: 24
Joined: Oct 17, 2020
   

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1190 » by Bnice5 » Yesterday 3:20 pm

KhalilS wrote:I don't get why you keep including JRich in your depth charts, He's not coming back, unless he opts in on his contract, Mavs have cap space next season, and JRich will eat into it, they would do much better waiving his rights and going after bigger name in FA, THJ has much better chemistry with the rest of the team.
As for Wiseman, I don't see Dallas as a player development franchise, look at who they succeeded with in the draft, an established European superstar and a college star with 3 years in quality college program on his resume, just look at the state of Tyler Terry and Tyler Bey, it's not happening, Dallas isn't Miami in that regard.
Quite frankly, I don't see any good deal for KP, mending his relationship with Luka is much easier.


i think the org likes him and will bring him back if his money isn't insane which i dont think it will be... something like 3 years with average annual value at 7-8M. They will have a hard time not trying to bring him back because they will want something to show for the curry deal. I do think his role will be decreased though. My biggest hope for this offseason is that we can bring in Conley. He would be the ideal secondary creator next to Luka in the starting line up and one of them could be on the floor at all times and paired with Brunson while the other rests... That solves all 48 minutes of your 1 and 2 guard needs. THJ, Jrich, Green get the minutes at the other wing spot.

Personally if he doesn't come back I'm not hurt over it, but I think we all can recognize that are D has been much better this year and that our 3 best defenders are Kleber, DFS, and JRich... If you have another guard defender like Jrich that we could bring in that would be better lets hear it...(maybe Lonzo, but I am not sold and think he requires a bigger contract for a similar output because of his name and I think he is more of a bigger body wiry defender (like DFS) than a small pest/disruptor like JRich)
KhalilS
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 439
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1191 » by KhalilS » Yesterday 3:43 pm

20 mil/3 is a tax payer MLE and it's what he'll be offered on the free market, a contender looking to add guards to the rotation (Bucks, Lakers, Clippers, Jazz if they lose Conley) and I have no problem with him staying for this money, I wouldn't offer him full MLE (40/4).
daoneandonly
General Manager
Posts: 9,495
And1: 1,584
Joined: May 27, 2004
Location: Masalaland
 

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1192 » by daoneandonly » Yesterday 3:46 pm

Denver was waiting for Harris to return to form for years before unloading him, its not going to happen.

Defense is essential to winning, replacing Richardson with Derozen is a massive step back and the team will be worse than when they had Curry instead. At least Curry is a reliable outside threat, Demar isnt.
dirkforpres
General Manager
Posts: 9,932
And1: 4,698
Joined: Sep 13, 2005
   

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1193 » by dirkforpres » Yesterday 3:51 pm

KhalilS wrote:20 mil/3 is a tax payer MLE and it's what he'll be offered on the free market, a contender looking to add guards to the rotation (Bucks, Lakers, Clippers, Jazz if they lose Conley) and I have no problem with him staying for this money, I wouldn't offer him full MLE (40/4).


No way. He’s worth maybe 5 mil a year tops, but some dumb team will offer him 10 mil elsewhere because he’s still fairly young.

Please don’t let it be Dallas
FIRE RICK CARLISLE
KhalilS
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 439
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1194 » by KhalilS » Yesterday 3:57 pm

He has a plyer option for 11.6, I'm sue his agent has tested the waters, if that's what's his going price he opting in.
JD45
General Manager
Posts: 7,671
And1: 180
Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1195 » by JD45 » Yesterday 5:38 pm

Unless JRich turns it up a lot for the rest of the season he is going to opt in. Much better to play out the last year than get locked into a new contract at a lower rate than he thinks he deserves.
"Government is the great fiction through which everyone endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else"

Frederic Bastiat
jpengland
Head Coach
Posts: 6,510
And1: 5,541
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
   

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1196 » by jpengland » Yesterday 6:21 pm

I'll keep saying this...

If we want to be players in 21 free agency we have to renounce the rights to THJ, Jrich and would then only have the room (lower) MLE available.

Who can we get who on their own is better than THJ, JRich and bridges the gap between the room and full MLE?

Collins and Ball are both RFAs so if we want them it'd be a sign and trade most likely, so further assets given up.

There's very few guys left that would even come close to being worth the opportunity cost to sign them.
KhalilS
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 439
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1197 » by KhalilS » Yesterday 6:56 pm

If JRich opts out and THJ signs to a contract that starts at 13-14 millions, you'd have 20 millions in cap space, not enough for max but good enough for anyone in FA except maybe Collins.
Mr B
Head Coach
Posts: 7,234
And1: 1,699
Joined: Nov 20, 2014
         

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1198 » by Mr B » Yesterday 7:04 pm

KhalilS wrote:I don't get why you keep including JRich in your depth charts, He's not coming back, unless he opts in on his contract, Mavs have cap space next season, and JRich will eat into it, they would do much better waiving his rights and going after bigger name in FA, THJ has much better chemistry with the rest of the team.
As for Wiseman, I don't see Dallas as a player development franchise, look at who they succeeded with in the draft, an established European superstar and a college star with 3 years in quality college program on his resume, just look at the state of Tyler Terry and Tyler Bey, it's not happening, Dallas isn't Miami in that regard.
Quite frankly, I don't see any good deal for KP, mending his relationship with Luka is much easier.

Luka, Dorian Finney-Smith, Maxi Kleber, Dwight Powell, and Jalen Brunson have all been developed in Dallas. These are just the current guys too. You can also look back at guys like Barea, Brandon Wright, and Jae Crowder as guys they’ve developed.

The problem is you want instant development from rookies which is unrealistic for every player. Some guys take time. There is no issue in Dallas with player development.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mr B
Head Coach
Posts: 7,234
And1: 1,699
Joined: Nov 20, 2014
         

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1199 » by Mr B » Yesterday 7:05 pm

daoneandonly wrote:
KhalilS wrote:I don't get why you keep including JRich in your depth charts, He's not coming back, unless he opts in on his contract, Mavs have cap space next season, and JRich will eat into it, they would do much better waiving his rights and going after bigger name in FA, THJ has much better chemistry with the rest of the team.
As for Wiseman, I don't see Dallas as a player development franchise, look at who they succeeded with in the draft, an established European superstar and a college star with 3 years in quality college program on his resume, just look at the state of Tyler Terry and Tyler Bey, it's not happening, Dallas isn't Miami in that regard.
Quite frankly, I don't see any good deal for KP, mending his relationship with Luka is much easier.


The '21 FA market has completely dried up, who's better than J Rich at this point?

I do think mavs could have easily beat out Denver's offer for Gordon though. JRich, Green, and a 2nd round pick is more appealing than overpaid Harris, Hampton, and a distant first.

Do the Mavs make an offer to DeRozen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
KhalilS
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 439
Joined: Aug 20, 2020

Re: Trade Discussion 20/21 

Post#1200 » by KhalilS » Yesterday 7:09 pm

Luka and Brunson weren't really developed in Dallas, they played 3 years at least of competetive basketball at high level, they were refined here, the rest are role players really, developing raw talent like Wiseman is a differrent story.

Return to Dallas Mavericks