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So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs?

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Archx
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#101 » by Archx » Mon Jan 4, 2021 10:40 am

Spoiler:
arkuo wrote:
Archx wrote:
arkuo wrote:I'll still trade THJ + Powell for Tobias Harris + Thybulle or Shake Milton

Have DFS slide back to SF where that thin frame of his can box out other small forwards. Slot Harris who is 6'9 at PF where he can take slower PFs off the dribble.

DFS at PF only works if DFS's shooting can drag other big men out to the 3 point line to guard him. Guarding DFS tight means he is a legitimate threat. DFS has not score in the 20s this year to warrant any type of defensive assignments on him. And that's why the spacing is bad because you have DFS at PF and Powell at C. Both or which are not threats to any opponents. This is on Carlisle. He has used this lineup for 5 games now and it hasnt worked.



Uhmmm, you really think Philly would be dumb enough to just say yes to THJ and Powell? Even THJ's expiring contract might be seen as a negative value for a team who wants to contend...... and then there is Powell.


It's not crazy to think that Philly wants to dump Tobias Harris' contract to clear their books. I don't need to break Harris' contract on a per year basis below. You're aware of this, right? As it stands they have a $19.8M luxury tax bill.

They need to replace Danny Green who walks after this season. But with no cap space, who do they sign? If they trade for THJ, they get another shooter and they get his bird rights.


Philly are 5-1 they are going all in. They have enough guards to cover positions. Harris is almost 50% range shooter and provides great spacing. Getting back THJ and Powell does absolutely nothing for them. If Green walks he'll walk. I wouldn't think anyone see in him a positive value at this point.

Also if they would be so desperate to get rid of Harris, they sure as hell wouldn't want THJ back lol..
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#102 » by arkuo » Mon Jan 4, 2021 10:42 am

Archx wrote:
Spoiler:
arkuo wrote:
Archx wrote:

Uhmmm, you really think Philly would be dumb enough to just say yes to THJ and Powell? Even THJ's expiring contract might be seen as a negative value for a team who wants to contend...... and then there is Powell.


It's not crazy to think that Philly wants to dump Tobias Harris' contract to clear their books. I don't need to break Harris' contract on a per year basis below. You're aware of this, right? As it stands they have a $19.8M luxury tax bill.

They need to replace Danny Green who walks after this season. But with no cap space, who do they sign? If they trade for THJ, they get another shooter and they get his bird rights.


Philly are 5-1 they are going all in. They have enough guards to cover positions. Harris is almost 50% range shooter and provides great spacing. Getting back THJ and Powell does absolutely nothing for them. If Green walks he'll walk. I wouldn't think anyone see in him a positive value at this point.

Also if they would be so desperate to get rid of Harris, they sure as hell wouldn't want THJ back lol..



They would not want THJ per se. But the value there is THJ's contract. THJ the player's value comes secondary IMO. Cuban has a relationship with Daryl Morey. Not saying it's a sure thing, but it could work if they wanted it to.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#103 » by Pinkyring » Mon Jan 4, 2021 5:47 pm

leolozon wrote:
ejs78 wrote:I don't want anyone over 30

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It's funny how many people are ready to make the same mistake as always : "Thinking about the short term instead of building something." Hey, let's trade for that 32-35yo on the way down! Like that we'll be sure to get the worst version of that player.

It doesn't help that RC won't play the rookies to see what they have. Josh Green could develop into someone great for the team.

Somebody in the 30s should be the absolute target, idk how much time u think Porzingis has left but i don't trust his health, get a vet now a la derozen give him a 3 yr deal this summer, make your run, then he expires with Porzingis and we have a maxed luka and a boatload of cap. U don't slow build this thing when your second best player has questionable health.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#104 » by leolozon » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:59 am

Pinkyring wrote:
leolozon wrote:
ejs78 wrote:I don't want anyone over 30

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It's funny how many people are ready to make the same mistake as always : "Thinking about the short term instead of building something." Hey, let's trade for that 32-35yo on the way down! Like that we'll be sure to get the worst version of that player.

It doesn't help that RC won't play the rookies to see what they have. Josh Green could develop into someone great for the team.

Somebody in the 30s should be the absolute target, idk how much time u think Porzingis has left but i don't trust his health, get a vet now a la derozen give him a 3 yr deal this summer, make your run, then he expires with Porzingis and we have a maxed luka and a boatload of cap. U don't slow build this thing when your second best player has questionable health.


Your post sounds depressing to me. I don't think that Derozan is the difference for a championship in the next 2-3 years unless both Luka and KP become way better. I'm not even sure Derozan is better for the Mavs than THJ. Doesn't he try even less on defense?

Making a run while Luka is 22-25 doesn't appear that realistic to me. How many greats even won championships as the main guy when they were that young? (Magic had Kareem.) The idea is generally to build to be ready when the guy is 25-26.

I'm personally starting to like the idea of a guy like Lonzo Ball. Can be the secondary ball handler, plays good defense, is actually a good 3pt shooter. I would rather pay him than Derozan. There's a chance that the Pels don't keep him.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#105 » by Pinkyring » Tue Jan 5, 2021 4:22 am

leolozon wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
leolozon wrote:
It's funny how many people are ready to make the same mistake as always : "Thinking about the short term instead of building something." Hey, let's trade for that 32-35yo on the way down! Like that we'll be sure to get the worst version of that player.

It doesn't help that RC won't play the rookies to see what they have. Josh Green could develop into someone great for the team.

Somebody in the 30s should be the absolute target, idk how much time u think Porzingis has left but i don't trust his health, get a vet now a la derozen give him a 3 yr deal this summer, make your run, then he expires with Porzingis and we have a maxed luka and a boatload of cap. U don't slow build this thing when your second best player has questionable health.


Your post sounds depressing to me. I don't think that Derozan is the difference for a championship in the next 2-3 years unless both Luka and KP become way better. I'm not even sure Derozan is better for the Mavs than THJ. Doesn't he try even less on defense?

Making a run while Luka is 22-25 doesn't appear that realistic to me. How many greats even won championships as the main guy when they were that young? (Magic had Kareem.) The idea is generally to build to be ready when the guy is 25-26.

I'm personally starting to like the idea of a guy like Lonzo Ball. Can be the secondary ball handler, plays good defense, is actually a good 3pt shooter. I would rather pay him than Derozan. There's a chance that the Pels don't keep him.


Depending on the prize tag i like lonzo on a 3/40 deal. My take isn't depressing, there is no reason to not go for it if we can add a vet all star.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#106 » by Heezzi » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:28 pm

Archx wrote:
Spoiler:
arkuo wrote:
Archx wrote:

Uhmmm, you really think Philly would be dumb enough to just say yes to THJ and Powell? Even THJ's expiring contract might be seen as a negative value for a team who wants to contend...... and then there is Powell.


It's not crazy to think that Philly wants to dump Tobias Harris' contract to clear their books. I don't need to break Harris' contract on a per year basis below. You're aware of this, right? As it stands they have a $19.8M luxury tax bill.

They need to replace Danny Green who walks after this season. But with no cap space, who do they sign? If they trade for THJ, they get another shooter and they get his bird rights.


Philly are 5-1 they are going all in. They have enough guards to cover positions. Harris is almost 50% range shooter and provides great spacing. Getting back THJ and Powell does absolutely nothing for them. If Green walks he'll walk. I wouldn't think anyone see in him a positive value at this point.

Also if they would be so desperate to get rid of Harris, they sure as hell wouldn't want THJ back lol..

76ers are 7-1 now. They aren't trading him. And Mavs aren't getting Shake Milton back either. They never should have traded him to the 76ers in the first place.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#107 » by arkuo » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:48 pm

Heezzi wrote:
Archx wrote:
Spoiler:
arkuo wrote:
It's not crazy to think that Philly wants to dump Tobias Harris' contract to clear their books. I don't need to break Harris' contract on a per year basis below. You're aware of this, right? As it stands they have a $19.8M luxury tax bill.

They need to replace Danny Green who walks after this season. But with no cap space, who do they sign? If they trade for THJ, they get another shooter and they get his bird rights.


Philly are 5-1 they are going all in. They have enough guards to cover positions. Harris is almost 50% range shooter and provides great spacing. Getting back THJ and Powell does absolutely nothing for them. If Green walks he'll walk. I wouldn't think anyone see in him a positive value at this point.

Also if they would be so desperate to get rid of Harris, they sure as hell wouldn't want THJ back lol..

76ers are 7-1 now. They aren't trading him. And Mavs aren't getting Shake Milton back either. They never should have traded him to the 76ers in the first place.


That's Donnie's drafting genius at work. :roll: Same goes for Cuban. Their strength really lies with trading with other teams.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#108 » by arkuo » Thu Jan 7, 2021 1:51 pm

Heezzi wrote:
Archx wrote:
Spoiler:
arkuo wrote:
It's not crazy to think that Philly wants to dump Tobias Harris' contract to clear their books. I don't need to break Harris' contract on a per year basis below. You're aware of this, right? As it stands they have a $19.8M luxury tax bill.

They need to replace Danny Green who walks after this season. But with no cap space, who do they sign? If they trade for THJ, they get another shooter and they get his bird rights.


Philly are 5-1 they are going all in. They have enough guards to cover positions. Harris is almost 50% range shooter and provides great spacing. Getting back THJ and Powell does absolutely nothing for them. If Green walks he'll walk. I wouldn't think anyone see in him a positive value at this point.

Also if they would be so desperate to get rid of Harris, they sure as hell wouldn't want THJ back lol..

76ers are 7-1 now. They aren't trading him. And Mavs aren't getting Shake Milton back either. They never should have traded him to the 76ers in the first place.


Also, just to comment on the Sixers, they're on an uptick in the same way the Heat are on a slide. When the players get into mid-season form, I expect them to average out.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#109 » by Heezzi » Thu Jan 7, 2021 2:14 pm

arkuo wrote:
Heezzi wrote:
Archx wrote:
Spoiler:


Philly are 5-1 they are going all in. They have enough guards to cover positions. Harris is almost 50% range shooter and provides great spacing. Getting back THJ and Powell does absolutely nothing for them. If Green walks he'll walk. I wouldn't think anyone see in him a positive value at this point.

Also if they would be so desperate to get rid of Harris, they sure as hell wouldn't want THJ back lol..

76ers are 7-1 now. They aren't trading him. And Mavs aren't getting Shake Milton back either. They never should have traded him to the 76ers in the first place.


Also, just to comment on the Sixers, they're on an uptick in the same way the Heat are on a slide. When the players get into mid-season form, I expect them to average out.

They are 7-0 when Embiid plays. Since Doc Rivers is coaching Tobias Harris again, he is back playing like he did for the Clippers. They aren't trading him.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#110 » by arkuo » Thu Jan 7, 2021 2:24 pm

Heezzi wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Heezzi wrote:76ers are 7-1 now. They aren't trading him. And Mavs aren't getting Shake Milton back either. They never should have traded him to the 76ers in the first place.


Also, just to comment on the Sixers, they're on an uptick in the same way the Heat are on a slide. When the players get into mid-season form, I expect them to average out.

They are 7-0 when Embiid plays. Since Doc Rivers is coaching Tobias Harris again, he is back playing like he did for the Clippers. They aren't trading him.



I'm not saying they're going to trade him. I'm saying the Sixers record won't stand like that the same way the Knicks will stop winning games like they are now. Knicks have won what, 5 of the last 6 games? That will average out.

My point is, Cuban waited too long for a shot at Giannis and that his plan B seems to be Plan Powder every year until the next Giannis shows up. That's just a bad plan IMO.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#111 » by arkuo » Thu Jan 7, 2021 2:31 pm

if you analyzed the last offseason, trading for Richardson was probably plan D.

Plan A was to trade for Giannis if he didnt sign the supermax. Giannis signed.
Plan B was to trade for a top 10 pick to get Haliburton. Nobody budged.
Plan C was to sign Jae Crowder. He didnt want to come to Dallas, chose Phoenix instead.
Plan D was Seth Curry to RIchardson to address the lack of defense.
Plan E was to draft any defensive wing available at 18 since Plan B didnt materialize.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#112 » by HMFFL » Thu Jan 7, 2021 10:45 pm

arkuo wrote:if you analyzed the last offseason, trading for Richardson was probably plan D.

Plan A was to trade for Giannis if he didnt sign the supermax. Giannis signed.
Plan B was to trade for a top 10 pick to get Haliburton. Nobody budged.
Plan C was to sign Jae Crowder. He didnt want to come to Dallas, chose Phoenix instead.
Plan D was Seth Curry to RIchardson to address the lack of defense.
Plan E was to draft any defensive wing available at 18 since Plan B didnt materialize.


I agree.
After plan A things had probably been tossed around and at some point you just have to run the course. Now, we wait for free agency, unless some good value comes up by trade, but I don't like our chances.

I like seeing Seth have success with Philly, but they're using him correctly, and he's a fantastic value for them. Trading him hurts but it's what he wanted and it was a wide decision for him.



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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#113 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:10 pm

Am I crazy for thinking Terry Rozier has slowly developed into an absolute perfect secondary ballhandler for Dallas? Enough PG skills to be that secondary guy but also can move w/o the ball and hits 3's at a great rate on huge volume.

CHA has to make a choice between Graham and Rozier. Could Powell + Green + FRP get Rozier? Clearing Powell's $$$ cost a 1st IMO, and getting a player of Rozier's caliber cost a 1st. So they add Terry (17.9M 2021) while losing Powell (11) + Green (2.9). Net loss of 4M cap space. Maybe decide to operate as an over the cap team to open the larger MLE. Resign Richardson, THJ and hope to snag LMA (Or Bjelica) for the MLE?

G - Terry Rozier (28) / Jalen Brunson (20) / Tyrell Terry
G - Josh Richardson (28) / Tim Hardaway Jr (14) / Trey Burke (6)
F - Luka Doncic (34) / Tim Hardaway Jr (14) / Tyler Bey
F - Kristaps Porzingis (28) / Dorian Finney Smith (20) / James Johnson (VM)
C - LaMarcus Aldridge (24) / Maxi Kleber (24) / Boban Marjonivic (VM)
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#114 » by Mr B » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:03 pm

Maybe I’m crazy but I’d kind of like to see them keep this current squad and let them figure it out. This group over the last two games has been really good on defense. Let them play together for a while and gel. One of the things that made that 2011 team great is that they had played together for a couple of seasons. They weren’t constantly moving guys on and off the roster. They were allowed to play together and gel as a team. They were able to build great chemistry with each other defensively. I’d kind of like this team to be able to do the same. They just came off one of the toughest stretch of games they will see all season (including 6 road games) and they’re .500 and did it without their second best player. Let’s get KP back and see how this team does.


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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#115 » by arkuo » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:27 pm

Wiretap reports the Hawks offered 4 years $90M to John Collins. Which he eventually turned down. I think thr Mavs have to go 15 to 20M over that for Atlanta to back off. Offering an additional 10M is an easy match IMO. If they want him that bad, that's how it will cost especially with that RFA status.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#116 » by dirkforpres » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:32 pm

arkuo wrote:Wiretap reports the Hawks offered 4 years $90M to John Collins. Which he eventually turned down. I think thr Mavs have to go 15 to 20M over that for Atlanta to back off. Offering an additional 10M is an easy match IMO. If they want him that bad, that's how it will cost especially with that RFA status.


4/105 seems like the right number for him
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#117 » by arkuo » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:51 pm

dirkforpres wrote:
arkuo wrote:Wiretap reports the Hawks offered 4 years $90M to John Collins. Which he eventually turned down. I think thr Mavs have to go 15 to 20M over that for Atlanta to back off. Offering an additional 10M is an easy match IMO. If they want him that bad, that's how it will cost especially with that RFA status.


4/105 seems like the right number for him



That looks like an easy match for Atlanta if Collins keeps this up. To snag an RFA, Dallas needs to go over and above like how they overpaid Barnes for GSW to back off the price tag. I personally do not think Collins is worth $115M or $120M. Kleber can start at PF. He is more effective there. So Dallas' money can be spent for a SF who can average another 15ppg. Send THJ and DFS to the 2nd unit. That would be a strong lineup.
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#118 » by dirkforpres » Fri Jan 8, 2021 6:43 pm

arkuo wrote:
dirkforpres wrote:
arkuo wrote:Wiretap reports the Hawks offered 4 years $90M to John Collins. Which he eventually turned down. I think thr Mavs have to go 15 to 20M over that for Atlanta to back off. Offering an additional 10M is an easy match IMO. If they want him that bad, that's how it will cost especially with that RFA status.


4/105 seems like the right number for him



That looks like an easy match for Atlanta if Collins keeps this up. To snag an RFA, Dallas needs to go over and above like how they overpaid Barnes for GSW to back off the price tag. I personally do not think Collins is worth $115M or $120M. Kleber can start at PF. He is more effective there. So Dallas' money can be spent for a SF who can average another 15ppg. Send THJ and DFS to the 2nd unit. That would be a strong lineup.


In the past year the Hawks drafted a PF with the 6th pick, traded for Capela, and also signed Danilo... I’m not 100% sure they’d match since they don’t really need that much money dedicated to the PF position... Especially with the looming Trae extension that will put them in luxury tax territory
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#119 » by arkuo » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:00 pm

dirkforpres wrote:
arkuo wrote:
dirkforpres wrote:
4/105 seems like the right number for him



That looks like an easy match for Atlanta if Collins keeps this up. To snag an RFA, Dallas needs to go over and above like how they overpaid Barnes for GSW to back off the price tag. I personally do not think Collins is worth $115M or $120M. Kleber can start at PF. He is more effective there. So Dallas' money can be spent for a SF who can average another 15ppg. Send THJ and DFS to the 2nd unit. That would be a strong lineup.


In the past year the Hawks drafted a PF with the 6th pick, traded for Capela, and also signed Danilo... I’m not 100% sure they’d match since they don’t really need that much money dedicated to the PF position... Especially with the looming Trae extension that will put them in luxury tax territory



That's a fair point too.

My reservations with maxing Collins comes from the fact that when we do, that's essentially our team for the next 3 years. That's it. No more cap space, KP, Collins and Luka will be maxed out. Now when you look at it on paper, the question is will those 3 be enough to get you over the Lakers. Maybe if Collins keeps up his 20-10 stat line?
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Re: So... which free agents are left in 2021 for the Mavs? 

Post#120 » by JD45 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:03 pm

I dont think the timing will work for the Mavs to bid on a high priced RFA.

They would have to renounce bird rights for THJ and probably JRich. Stretch Powell and maybe even decline the option on WCS. All to make a big bid for a RFA, then wait to see if the other team matches. During that time, all their other good options, including resigning THJ and JRich could evaporate. They would put the difference between a good offseason and a disaster in the hands of another team. Too much risk for me.
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