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RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST)

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wolfram
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#21 » by wolfram » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:32 pm

It's hilarious to me how people still worry about Luka.
leolozon
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#22 » by leolozon » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:33 pm

JD45 wrote:
gottamakeit wrote:
Its ugly to watch when he's not feeling it. And today he wasn't feeling it; stemming from his frustration with the refs.
He needs to find a way to impact the game without messing up the rhythm of the rest of the team.


I agree that Luka didn't have one of his better games. But he still scored 21 points on 16 shots with 12 assists and 5 rebounds. For mere mortals that is All-Star level NBA performance. So he had a very positive effect, just not his normal god-mode.


I rather see him attack the rim and have a lower efficiency in a game than see him settling for 3s and have average efficiency, simply because I know that attacking the rim will pay off in the long run and his efficiency will go up.

We are also judging him as a top 5 talent in the league, not as an average-good player. Yeah, 21/12 on .560 TS% is good for most players. But the point is that Doncic isn't most player, he was 4th in MVP voting as a 20-21yo.

He's still worst this year than he was last year, even if we thought he was back to his former self a couple of weeks ago. His shooting seems improved, but it's not clear given the sample size.

He was supposed to play himself back into shape, but I think it's obvious he's still too heavy for his own good and it's affecting his performances. He's not Jokic who needs weight to bully people inside. He needs to be faster and have better stamina.

Maybe his ankle is bothering him, but extra weight doesn't help in that regard either.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#23 » by gottamakeit » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:24 pm

leolozon wrote:
JD45 wrote:
gottamakeit wrote:
Its ugly to watch when he's not feeling it. And today he wasn't feeling it; stemming from his frustration with the refs.
He needs to find a way to impact the game without messing up the rhythm of the rest of the team.


I agree that Luka didn't have one of his better games. But he still scored 21 points on 16 shots with 12 assists and 5 rebounds. For mere mortals that is All-Star level NBA performance. So he had a very positive effect, just not his normal god-mode.


I rather see him attack the rim and have a lower efficiency in a game than see him settling for 3s and have average efficiency, simply because I know that attacking the rim will pay off in the long run and his efficiency will go up.

We are also judging him as a top 5 talent in the league, not as an average-good player. Yeah, 21/12 on .560 TS% is good for most players. But the point is that Doncic isn't most player, he was 4th in MVP voting as a 20-21yo.

He's still worst this year than he was last year, even if we thought he was back to his former self a couple of weeks ago. His shooting seems improved, but it's not clear given the sample size.

He was supposed to play himself back into shape, but I think it's obvious he's still too heavy for his own good and it's affecting his performances. He's not Jokic who needs weight to bully people inside. He needs to be faster and have better stamina.

Maybe his ankle is bothering him, but extra weight doesn't help in that regard either.


Him going to the rim creates so many good things for the Mavs offense. Defenses collapse, leaving his teammates open.
It also gives his teammates space to move and cut.

When he's jacking up shots, the offense feels stymied; and also it bails out the opposing defense from having to expend any energy to defend.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#24 » by gottamakeit » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:25 pm

wolfram wrote:It's hilarious to me how people still worry about Luka.


I think its hilarious people have blinders on
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#25 » by Bob8 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:26 pm

leolozon wrote:
JD45 wrote:
gottamakeit wrote:
Its ugly to watch when he's not feeling it. And today he wasn't feeling it; stemming from his frustration with the refs.
He needs to find a way to impact the game without messing up the rhythm of the rest of the team.


I agree that Luka didn't have one of his better games. But he still scored 21 points on 16 shots with 12 assists and 5 rebounds. For mere mortals that is All-Star level NBA performance. So he had a very positive effect, just not his normal god-mode.


I rather see him attack the rim and have a lower efficiency in a game than see him settling for 3s and have average efficiency, simply because I know that attacking the rim will pay off in the long run and his efficiency will go up.

We are also judging him as a top 5 talent in the league, not as an average-good player. Yeah, 21/12 on .560 TS% is good for most players. But the point is that Doncic isn't most player, he was 4th in MVP voting as a 20-21yo.

He's still worst this year than he was last year, even if we thought he was back to his former self a couple of weeks ago. His shooting seems improved, but it's not clear given the sample size.

He was supposed to play himself back into shape, but I think it's obvious he's still too heavy for his own good and it's affecting his performances. He's not Jokic who needs weight to bully people inside. He needs to be faster and have better stamina.

Maybe his ankle is bothering him, but extra weight doesn't help in that regard either.


If a game like this is one of your worst games in a season, 21/5/12 and an easy win against Denver, than you're not only in conversation for MVP but also for GOAT. MJ had many much worse games. Expectations for Luka are totally unrealistic. Nobody is having only perfect games. If anything he's incredibly consistent.
He's not in condition to drive every possession. Even more, driving that much is dangerous for his ankles. And this is not normal season, they will have to play half of a season in 2 months, meaning you cannot give 100% in every game.
Do you really believe that fans know more than Luka and coaching staff, what Luka should do?
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#26 » by leolozon » Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:33 pm

Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
JD45 wrote:
I agree that Luka didn't have one of his better games. But he still scored 21 points on 16 shots with 12 assists and 5 rebounds. For mere mortals that is All-Star level NBA performance. So he had a very positive effect, just not his normal god-mode.


I rather see him attack the rim and have a lower efficiency in a game than see him settling for 3s and have average efficiency, simply because I know that attacking the rim will pay off in the long run and his efficiency will go up.

We are also judging him as a top 5 talent in the league, not as an average-good player. Yeah, 21/12 on .560 TS% is good for most players. But the point is that Doncic isn't most player, he was 4th in MVP voting as a 20-21yo.

He's still worst this year than he was last year, even if we thought he was back to his former self a couple of weeks ago. His shooting seems improved, but it's not clear given the sample size.

He was supposed to play himself back into shape, but I think it's obvious he's still too heavy for his own good and it's affecting his performances. He's not Jokic who needs weight to bully people inside. He needs to be faster and have better stamina.

Maybe his ankle is bothering him, but extra weight doesn't help in that regard either.


If a game like this is one of your worst games in a season, 21/5/12 and an easy win against Denver, than you're not only in conversation for MVP but also for GOAT. MJ had many much worse games. Expectations for Luka are totally unrealistic. Nobody is having only perfect games. If anything he's incredibly consistent.
He's not in condition to drive every possession. Even more, driving that much is dangerous for his ankles. And this is not normal season, they will have to play half of a season in 2 months, meaning you cannot give 100% in every game.
Do you really believe that fans know more than Luka and coaching staff, what Luka should do?


Yeah, I get it, you defend Luka no matter what on any small criticism. Settling for 3s as much as he does in recent games and weighing more than last year isn't a positive thing no matter how you want to spin it. Where did I say that he should only have perfect games? That's not the point at all.

Expecting a 3rd year player to be slightly better or as good as in his 2nd year is completely unrealistic? Is that a joke? The expectations are at least top 5 player in the league and probably top 3, something that is realistic. I'm not using any random standard, I'm using the standard he set last year. He came in overweight which affected his game and still kind of is after 3 months.

I'm not even sure how people can debate what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he should only have great game. I'm saying that he shouldn't settle for that many 3s. If he isn't in game shape or has trouble with his ankles at such a young age, then the weight should come down. Because his energy was off in that last game.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#27 » by Bob8 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:54 pm

leolozon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
I rather see him attack the rim and have a lower efficiency in a game than see him settling for 3s and have average efficiency, simply because I know that attacking the rim will pay off in the long run and his efficiency will go up.

We are also judging him as a top 5 talent in the league, not as an average-good player. Yeah, 21/12 on .560 TS% is good for most players. But the point is that Doncic isn't most player, he was 4th in MVP voting as a 20-21yo.

He's still worst this year than he was last year, even if we thought he was back to his former self a couple of weeks ago. His shooting seems improved, but it's not clear given the sample size.

He was supposed to play himself back into shape, but I think it's obvious he's still too heavy for his own good and it's affecting his performances. He's not Jokic who needs weight to bully people inside. He needs to be faster and have better stamina.

Maybe his ankle is bothering him, but extra weight doesn't help in that regard either.


If a game like this is one of your worst games in a season, 21/5/12 and an easy win against Denver, than you're not only in conversation for MVP but also for GOAT. MJ had many much worse games. Expectations for Luka are totally unrealistic. Nobody is having only perfect games. If anything he's incredibly consistent.
He's not in condition to drive every possession. Even more, driving that much is dangerous for his ankles. And this is not normal season, they will have to play half of a season in 2 months, meaning you cannot give 100% in every game.
Do you really believe that fans know more than Luka and coaching staff, what Luka should do?


Yeah, I get it, you defend Luka no matter what on any small criticism. Settling for 3s as much as he does in recent games and weighing more than last year isn't a positive thing no matter how you want to spin it. Where did I say that he should only have perfect games? That's not the point at all.

Expecting a 3rd year player to be slightly better or as good as in his 2nd year is completely unrealistic? Is that a joke? The expectations are at least top 5 player in the league and probably top 3, something that is realistic. I'm not using any random standard, I'm using the standard he set last year. He came in overweight which affected his game and still kind of is after 3 months.

I'm not even sure how people can debate what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he should only have great game. I'm saying that he shouldn't settle for that many 3s. If he isn't in game shape or has trouble with his ankles at such a young age, then the weight should come down. Because his energy was off in that last game.


Take away first 2 weeks and his numbers are much better than last year, even with slow start he has better Fg% and 3 pts %. He has more assists and is much better in clutch too. I really cannot see where you see regression. Like it or not his future depends on how much he will improve 3 points %, he cannot drive much more and he's being defended very well. 3 points shooting is the key for his improvement.

And we were talking about last game, which was far from perfect, it might be in his top3 worst games, but still good enough for important win. Pretty solid bad game.

You're right about his conditioning but that cannot be improved much during the season. He will need to take more seriously off-season.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#28 » by leolozon » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:26 pm

Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
If a game like this is one of your worst games in a season, 21/5/12 and an easy win against Denver, than you're not only in conversation for MVP but also for GOAT. MJ had many much worse games. Expectations for Luka are totally unrealistic. Nobody is having only perfect games. If anything he's incredibly consistent.
He's not in condition to drive every possession. Even more, driving that much is dangerous for his ankles. And this is not normal season, they will have to play half of a season in 2 months, meaning you cannot give 100% in every game.
Do you really believe that fans know more than Luka and coaching staff, what Luka should do?


Yeah, I get it, you defend Luka no matter what on any small criticism. Settling for 3s as much as he does in recent games and weighing more than last year isn't a positive thing no matter how you want to spin it. Where did I say that he should only have perfect games? That's not the point at all.

Expecting a 3rd year player to be slightly better or as good as in his 2nd year is completely unrealistic? Is that a joke? The expectations are at least top 5 player in the league and probably top 3, something that is realistic. I'm not using any random standard, I'm using the standard he set last year. He came in overweight which affected his game and still kind of is after 3 months.

I'm not even sure how people can debate what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he should only have great game. I'm saying that he shouldn't settle for that many 3s. If he isn't in game shape or has trouble with his ankles at such a young age, then the weight should come down. Because his energy was off in that last game.


Take away first 2 weeks and his numbers are much better than last year, even with slow start he has better Fg% and 3 pts %. He has more assists and is much better in clutch too. I really cannot see where you see regression. Like it or not his future depends on how much he will improve 3 points %, he cannot drive much more and he's being defended very well. 3 points shooting is the key for his improvement.

And we were talking about last game, which was far from perfect, it might be in his top3 worst games, but still good enough for important win. Pretty solid bad game.

You're right about his conditioning but that cannot be improved much during the season. He will need to take more seriously off-season.


Oh yeah, if you take away the first 2 weeks, it's close, but we are dealing with a small sample size and my point is that he has been settling for 3s too often lately. Notice that I didn't have that criticism 2 weeks ago, as I thought he was getting back to form, with better 3pt shooting, but worst from 2 (probably has to do with conditioning), so pretty much the same efficiency.

He's not shooting better from the FT line, he was at 80.6% in Oct-Nov-Dec last year, he's at 75.4% right now. He generally gets worst as the season goes on, probably because of conditioning. We'll only know at the end of the year if he's better. His FT shooting is going down right now.

He's less explosive, doesn't finish as well around the rim (72.6% last year vs 65.5% this year in the restricted area), he doesn't draw as many fouls (9.2 last year vs 7.8 this year), doesn't rebound as well (his ORBD went down from 1.3 to 0.8) I see him get out rebounded more than last year. I also see more games where he seems to lack energy. And all that can be link to him being still too heavy for his own good.

His defense was better at the start of the year than last year, but I'm not quite sure it's the case anymore.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Nuggets (Sat. 10PM EST) 

Post#29 » by Bob8 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:48 pm

leolozon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
Yeah, I get it, you defend Luka no matter what on any small criticism. Settling for 3s as much as he does in recent games and weighing more than last year isn't a positive thing no matter how you want to spin it. Where did I say that he should only have perfect games? That's not the point at all.

Expecting a 3rd year player to be slightly better or as good as in his 2nd year is completely unrealistic? Is that a joke? The expectations are at least top 5 player in the league and probably top 3, something that is realistic. I'm not using any random standard, I'm using the standard he set last year. He came in overweight which affected his game and still kind of is after 3 months.

I'm not even sure how people can debate what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he should only have great game. I'm saying that he shouldn't settle for that many 3s. If he isn't in game shape or has trouble with his ankles at such a young age, then the weight should come down. Because his energy was off in that last game.


Take away first 2 weeks and his numbers are much better than last year, even with slow start he has better Fg% and 3 pts %. He has more assists and is much better in clutch too. I really cannot see where you see regression. Like it or not his future depends on how much he will improve 3 points %, he cannot drive much more and he's being defended very well. 3 points shooting is the key for his improvement.

And we were talking about last game, which was far from perfect, it might be in his top3 worst games, but still good enough for important win. Pretty solid bad game.

You're right about his conditioning but that cannot be improved much during the season. He will need to take more seriously off-season.


Oh yeah, if you take away the first 2 weeks, it's close, but we are dealing with a small sample size and my point is that he has been settling for 3s too often lately. Notice that I didn't have that criticism 2 weeks ago, as I thought he was getting back to form, with better 3pt shooting, but worst from 2 (probably has to do with conditioning), so pretty much the same efficiency.

He's not shooting better from the FT line, he was at 80.6% in Oct-Nov-Dec last year, he's at 75.4% right now. He generally gets worst as the season goes on, probably because of conditioning. We'll only know at the end of the year if he's better. His FT shooting is going down right now.

He's less explosive, doesn't finish as well around the rim (72.6% last year vs 65.5% this year in the restricted area), he doesn't draw as many fouls (9.2 last year vs 7.8 this year), doesn't rebound as well (his ORBD went down from 1.3 to 0.8) I see him get out rebounded more than last year. I also see more games where he seems to lack energy. And all that can be link to him being still too heavy for his own good.

His defense was better at the start of the year than last year, but I'm not quite sure it's the case anymore.


He's better, if we take first 2 weeks away. If we look the whole season the numbers are very similar, but he's much better in clutch, when it matters the most.

His room from improvement is basically his conditioning, FT% and 3pts %. Conditioning is more or less about his willingness, FT% is mental thing for him, and 3pts % is about repetition. So you should be glad that he's taking that many 3-pointers. ;)

Luka is having pretty good year, problem is that we expect to much from Mavs, they're simply not better than last year. Off-season was just total failure. Look at Suns, why are they so much better? Not because of Booker and Ayton, but because of CP3. And what have Mavs got?

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