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RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST)

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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#81 » by 41Dirk41 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 8:20 pm

Melli isn't a pure shooter but he can shoot from 3 like Kleber and DFS,Dallas doesn't have any sharp shooter unless JJ.

When Melli played in good basketball system he shoots very well (his last years of EL), with Doncic he can easily hit 38/40% wide open.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#82 » by Bluelabel24 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 8:51 pm

41Dirk41 wrote:Melli isn't a pure shooter but he can shoot from 3 like Kleber and DFS,Dallas doesn't have any sharp shooter unless JJ.

When Melli played in good basketball system he shoots very well (his last years of EL), with Doncic he can easily hit 38/40% wide open.

strongly agree with this.. the system is also a huge part of one's shooting %. tbh im really impressed with lukas 38% 3pt simply because most of his shots are against the opposing teams best defenders/ double teams or last second shots because the offense was stagnant (and some also are just dumb as well). im actually not that impressed if a guy shoots 41% from 3 but if you look deeper at the stats you find out that most if not all those shots are wide open.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#83 » by DrPampiloni » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:03 pm

Bob8 wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
41Dirk41 wrote:Not a good game at all, but a W is a W... Nic Melli need more touches on offensive.

Green is an athletic freak but can't shoot, at least he has hustle.

Tim is a killer, perfect 6man for a contender.

Washington is trash btw.

Melli seems to be considered a shooter but he has never hit more than 33.5% in his NBA career.
In fact he was only about a 20% shooter this year before he became a Mav.
Looked good last night though.


He was shooting his last 4 years in Euroleague and in domestic competition over 40% for 3. Around 270 games sample size.


The 3-pt line is further back in the NBA than it is in Europe. A part of it is mental, but still it took 4 years for Maxi Kleber to become a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#84 » by Bob8 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:21 pm

DrPampiloni wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:Melli seems to be considered a shooter but he has never hit more than 33.5% in his NBA career.
In fact he was only about a 20% shooter this year before he became a Mav.
Looked good last night though.


He was shooting his last 4 years in Euroleague and in domestic competition over 40% for 3. Around 270 games sample size.


The 3-pt line is further back in the NBA than it is in Europe. A part of it is mental, but still it took 4 years for Maxi Kleber to become a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA


Melli is 2x more talented offensive player than Kleber, question is, if he's good enough in D.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#85 » by XTraderXL » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:35 pm

fuller4379 wrote:
Absinthe wrote:Someone explain to me how Luka is so fundamentally sound and can’t hit free throws.


I think he gets worn down because he is having to carry the team on his back.



Yeah, thats a terrible take. He would be missing 3s as well but his % on those is going up. FTs are mental, has nothing to do with him being worn down. He just isnt sure of his FTs, you can see it on his facial expression and right after his release.

I have been watching some videos from practice when he is shooting FTs and he is shooting them differently than in the game. He should be shooting each FT the same way, no matter if its in the game or at practice. You need a "ritual" which you repeat over and over so it becomes automatic. Luka has a different ritual during games than in practice and this is his biggest issue. He will eventually get there but the coaches are also not doing their job during practice.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#86 » by 41Dirk41 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:59 pm

Bob8 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
He was shooting his last 4 years in Euroleague and in domestic competition over 40% for 3. Around 270 games sample size.


The 3-pt line is further back in the NBA than it is in Europe. A part of it is mental, but still it took 4 years for Maxi Kleber to become a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA


Melli is 2x more talented offensive player than Kleber, question is, if he's good enough in D.


And a very better passer and little bit better rebounder... Carlisle and Luka have a lot of confidence in him and that it's great.
Don't worry about Melli, he is a perfect role player from the bench with high BBQI.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#87 » by DrPampiloni » Sun Apr 4, 2021 10:15 pm

Bob8 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
He was shooting his last 4 years in Euroleague and in domestic competition over 40% for 3. Around 270 games sample size.


The 3-pt line is further back in the NBA than it is in Europe. A part of it is mental, but still it took 4 years for Maxi Kleber to become a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA


Melli is 2x more talented offensive player than Kleber, question is, if he's good enough in D.


I was specifically talking about 3pt shooting, not offense in general, anyway the thing is... I do not think he is, actually... A better ball-handler probably? But that's it. They had similar output in Europe in the same league at the same age. Nico just decided to stay in Europe longer
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#88 » by SOUNDCHASER » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:57 am

Melli impressed me tonight and I can see him getting into the rotation a lot with his ability to rebound and hit 3's. I just hope JJ Thinks we have a shot to contend and that he can be a difference maker here with Luka getting him open shots. If Melli turns it around and starts hitting 3's then JJ should easily fit in and get a groove going. Not having Beal made the game an opportunity to rest starters like KP and others but we are looking like a much deeper team after this trade and we can work things so we rest guys and go fresh into the play offs.

Green was impressive and showed he has a great upside and could develop into a rotation contributor next season. The team is looking like its go a great chemistry developing a 3 deep roster at a lot of positions and I think if WCS comes back to be a contributor then we are going to contend this year. Boban was a beast against DC. We can go big and cause teams trouble and with Burke Brunson and JJ we got small covered as well. Lots of ways to match up and win the games with guys who can get hot on the 3's. It comes down to defense in the play offs and stopping the other teams in crunch time so we need to up that part of the teams game fast.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#89 » by Bob8 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:46 am

DrPampiloni wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:
The 3-pt line is further back in the NBA than it is in Europe. A part of it is mental, but still it took 4 years for Maxi Kleber to become a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA


Melli is 2x more talented offensive player than Kleber, question is, if he's good enough in D.


I was specifically talking about 3pt shooting, not offense in general, anyway the thing is... I do not think he is, actually... A better ball-handler probably? But that's it. They had similar output in Europe in the same league at the same age. Nico just decided to stay in Europe longer


They didn't play in the same league. Kleber never played in the top competition in the Europe. Melli was top3 Pf in the top competition in the Europe and played 2x F4. He scored 28 points in the final match of 2017/2018 season. If Fener have had won that match, Melli would have been MVP not Luka.

People not understanding how different are leagues in Europe probably enabled Mavs to get Luka. All those drafted players before Luka never played in Euroleague or had minor roles. Even wonder kid Rubio averaged 6/3/3 in his final year, being 2 years older than Luka.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#90 » by deb » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:35 am

Bob8 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Melli is 2x more talented offensive player than Kleber, question is, if he's good enough in D.


I was specifically talking about 3pt shooting, not offense in general, anyway the thing is... I do not think he is, actually... A better ball-handler probably? But that's it. They had similar output in Europe in the same league at the same age. Nico just decided to stay in Europe longer


They didn't play in the same league. Kleber never played in the top competition in the Europe. Melli was top3 Pf in the top competition in the Europe and played 2x F4. He scored 28 points in the final match of 2017/2018 season. If Fener have had won that match, Melli would have been MVP not Luka.

People not understanding how different are leagues in Europe probably enabled Mavs to get Luka. All those drafted players before Luka never played in Euroleague or had minor roles. Even wonder kid Rubio averaged 6/3/3 in his final year, being 2 years older than Luka.

Calm down Bobbie. They both played in the Bundesliga from 2015-2017, Maxi for Bayern, Nicolo for Bamberg, and they had similar averages at the time, Nicolo was a bit better but not by a huge margin (16/17: Maxi 9ppg and 5.3 rpg, Nicolo 11.7 ppg and 7.4 rpg). Maxi then went to Dallas and Nicolo to Fenerbahce, where he made his Euroleague name...

This is not to say that Maxi would have Nico's impact in Euroleague if he'd stayed in Europe, but they did play in the same league at the same time at roughly the same age (Nico is almost exactly 1 year older) and had similar output....
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#91 » by Bob8 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 10:06 am

deb wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
DrPampiloni wrote:
I was specifically talking about 3pt shooting, not offense in general, anyway the thing is... I do not think he is, actually... A better ball-handler probably? But that's it. They had similar output in Europe in the same league at the same age. Nico just decided to stay in Europe longer


They didn't play in the same league. Kleber never played in the top competition in the Europe. Melli was top3 Pf in the top competition in the Europe and played 2x F4. He scored 28 points in the final match of 2017/2018 season. If Fener have had won that match, Melli would have been MVP not Luka.

People not understanding how different are leagues in Europe probably enabled Mavs to get Luka. All those drafted players before Luka never played in Euroleague or had minor roles. Even wonder kid Rubio averaged 6/3/3 in his final year, being 2 years older than Luka.

Calm down Bobbie. They both played in the Bundesliga from 2015-2017, Maxi for Bayern, Nicolo for Bamberg, and they had similar averages at the time, Nicolo was a bit better but not by a huge margin (16/17: Maxi 9ppg and 5.3 rpg, Nicolo 11.7 ppg and 7.4 rpg). Maxi then went to Dallas and Nicolo to Fenerbahce, where he made his Euroleague name...

This is not to say that Maxi would have Nico's impact in Euroleague if he'd stayed in Europe, but they did play in the same league at the same time at roughly the same age (Nico is almost exactly 1 year older) and had similar output....


And you're again mixing things. Yes Bayern and Brose both played in German league, but Brose played in Euroleague too, while Bayern played in Eurocup. So their stats are incomparable, because Euroleague is far better competition. Euroleague clubs are buying more or less all the best players, who are playing in Europe. Melli played 9 years in Euroleague, Kleber 0 games.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#92 » by 41Dirk41 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 10:17 am

Nic played in EL for years when he was in Olimpia Milano, he was already an EL player with good stats and reputation.
Their Europe carriers aren't comparable, the Bundesliga and the EL are different universes.

I love Maxi and maybe his kind of play traslates better in NBA but what Nic Melli did in Europe is elite(with National team too) and 28points in the Final of EL are insane. Trust me.

Luka is the prove that European guys can play.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#93 » by deb » Mon Apr 5, 2021 11:04 am

Bob8 wrote:
deb wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
They didn't play in the same league. Kleber never played in the top competition in the Europe. Melli was top3 Pf in the top competition in the Europe and played 2x F4. He scored 28 points in the final match of 2017/2018 season. If Fener have had won that match, Melli would have been MVP not Luka.

People not understanding how different are leagues in Europe probably enabled Mavs to get Luka. All those drafted players before Luka never played in Euroleague or had minor roles. Even wonder kid Rubio averaged 6/3/3 in his final year, being 2 years older than Luka.

Calm down Bobbie. They both played in the Bundesliga from 2015-2017, Maxi for Bayern, Nicolo for Bamberg, and they had similar averages at the time, Nicolo was a bit better but not by a huge margin (16/17: Maxi 9ppg and 5.3 rpg, Nicolo 11.7 ppg and 7.4 rpg). Maxi then went to Dallas and Nicolo to Fenerbahce, where he made his Euroleague name...

This is not to say that Maxi would have Nico's impact in Euroleague if he'd stayed in Europe, but they did play in the same league at the same time at roughly the same age (Nico is almost exactly 1 year older) and had similar output....


And you're again mixing things. Yes Bayern and Brose both played in German league, but Brose played in Euroleague too, while Bayern played in Eurocup. So their stats are incomparable, because Euroleague is far better competition. Euroleague clubs are buying more or less all the best players, who are playing in Europe. Melli played 9 years in Euroleague, Kleber 0 games.


41Dirk41 wrote:Nic played in EL for years when he was in Olimpia Milano, he was already an EL player with good stats and reputation.
Their Europe carriers aren't comparable, the Bundesliga and the EL are different universes.

I love Maxi and maybe his kind of play traslates better in NBA but what Nic Melli did in Europe is elite(with National team too) and 28points in the Final of EL are insane. Trust me.

Luka is the prove that European guys can play.


Well I was responding to Bob8 saying they didn't play in the same league. They did. In 16/17 Brose ended the regular season in 2nd place in the Bundesliga with 58 points and Bayern 3rd with 56.

Also, the most Melli averaged in the Euroleague before joining Brose at age 24 was 5.3 ppg, not exactly " an EL player with good stats and reputation". He actually left Armani to go to Brose because he wanted more playing time and a bigger role. He got both, but Brose was not exactly a top level Euroleague team either.

Additionally, Bayern also played in the Euroleague in 2015/16, but Maxi was injured, so didn't play in the Euroleague. Bayern was knocked out of Euroleague quickly and finished the season in Eurocup, where Maxi did play.

Again, I'm not saying Maxi would have had a better career than Melli, had he stayed in Europe. Most likely not, I feel Melli is a more skilled player, whereas Maxi is a more physical one, thus better suited to the NBA. But I still maintain that Melli made most of his European reputation in Fenerbahce, and there wasn't that huge of a gap between Melli's and Maxi's European accomplishments before 2017.

Overall, including Melli's Fenerbahce years, there is a huge gap in European accomplishments in favor of Melli.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#94 » by Bob8 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:45 pm

deb wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
deb wrote:Calm down Bobbie. They both played in the Bundesliga from 2015-2017, Maxi for Bayern, Nicolo for Bamberg, and they had similar averages at the time, Nicolo was a bit better but not by a huge margin (16/17: Maxi 9ppg and 5.3 rpg, Nicolo 11.7 ppg and 7.4 rpg). Maxi then went to Dallas and Nicolo to Fenerbahce, where he made his Euroleague name...

This is not to say that Maxi would have Nico's impact in Euroleague if he'd stayed in Europe, but they did play in the same league at the same time at roughly the same age (Nico is almost exactly 1 year older) and had similar output....


And you're again mixing things. Yes Bayern and Brose both played in German league, but Brose played in Euroleague too, while Bayern played in Eurocup. So their stats are incomparable, because Euroleague is far better competition. Euroleague clubs are buying more or less all the best players, who are playing in Europe. Melli played 9 years in Euroleague, Kleber 0 games.


41Dirk41 wrote:Nic played in EL for years when he was in Olimpia Milano, he was already an EL player with good stats and reputation.
Their Europe carriers aren't comparable, the Bundesliga and the EL are different universes.

I love Maxi and maybe his kind of play traslates better in NBA but what Nic Melli did in Europe is elite(with National team too) and 28points in the Final of EL are insane. Trust me.

Luka is the prove that European guys can play.


Well I was responding to Bob8 saying they didn't play in the same league. They did. In 16/17 Brose ended the regular season in 2nd place in the Bundesliga with 58 points and Bayern 3rd with 56.

Also, the most Melli averaged in the Euroleague before joining Brose at age 24 was 5.3 ppg, not exactly " an EL player with good stats and reputation". He actually left Armani to go to Brose because he wanted more playing time and a bigger role. He got both, but Brose was not exactly a top level Euroleague team either.

Additionally, Bayern also played in the Euroleague in 2015/16, but Maxi was injured, so didn't play in the Euroleague. Bayern was knocked out of Euroleague quickly and finished the season in Eurocup, where Maxi did play.

Again, I'm not saying Maxi would have had a better career than Melli, had he stayed in Europe. Most likely not, I feel Melli is a more skilled player, whereas Maxi is a more physical one, thus better suited to the NBA. But I still maintain that Melli made most of his European reputation in Fenerbahce, and there wasn't that huge of a gap between Melli's and Maxi's European accomplishments before 2017.

Overall, including Melli's Fenerbahce years, there is a huge gap in European accomplishments in favor of Melli.


Kleber played only 24 games in the same league as Melli. 0 in Euroleague.

Melli made his name in Brose playing in Euroleague. In his last season he averaged 11.5/7.5/2.3 with 53.5% for 2 and 43.4% for 3, that's elite numbers for Euroleague. That's why Fener, who was Euroleague champion and financially one of the strongest clubs in Europe, bought him. So yes, he was top3 Pf in Europe before joining Fener.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#95 » by deb » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:57 pm

Bob8 wrote:
deb wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
And you're again mixing things. Yes Bayern and Brose both played in German league, but Brose played in Euroleague too, while Bayern played in Eurocup. So their stats are incomparable, because Euroleague is far better competition. Euroleague clubs are buying more or less all the best players, who are playing in Europe. Melli played 9 years in Euroleague, Kleber 0 games.


41Dirk41 wrote:Nic played in EL for years when he was in Olimpia Milano, he was already an EL player with good stats and reputation.
Their Europe carriers aren't comparable, the Bundesliga and the EL are different universes.

I love Maxi and maybe his kind of play traslates better in NBA but what Nic Melli did in Europe is elite(with National team too) and 28points in the Final of EL are insane. Trust me.

Luka is the prove that European guys can play.


Well I was responding to Bob8 saying they didn't play in the same league. They did. In 16/17 Brose ended the regular season in 2nd place in the Bundesliga with 58 points and Bayern 3rd with 56.

Also, the most Melli averaged in the Euroleague before joining Brose at age 24 was 5.3 ppg, not exactly " an EL player with good stats and reputation". He actually left Armani to go to Brose because he wanted more playing time and a bigger role. He got both, but Brose was not exactly a top level Euroleague team either.

Additionally, Bayern also played in the Euroleague in 2015/16, but Maxi was injured, so didn't play in the Euroleague. Bayern was knocked out of Euroleague quickly and finished the season in Eurocup, where Maxi did play.

Again, I'm not saying Maxi would have had a better career than Melli, had he stayed in Europe. Most likely not, I feel Melli is a more skilled player, whereas Maxi is a more physical one, thus better suited to the NBA. But I still maintain that Melli made most of his European reputation in Fenerbahce, and there wasn't that huge of a gap between Melli's and Maxi's European accomplishments before 2017.

Overall, including Melli's Fenerbahce years, there is a huge gap in European accomplishments in favor of Melli.


Kleber played only 24 games in the same league as Melli. 0 in Euroleague.

Melli made his name in Brose playing in Euroleague. In his last season he averaged 11.5/7.5/2.3 with 53.5% for 2 and 43.4% for 3, that's elite numbers for Euroleague. That's why Fener, who was Euroleague champion and financially one of the strongest clubs in Europe, bought him. So yes, he was top3 Pf in Europe before joining Fener.


Hehe, I see you are a contrarian, just like me, and I forced you to go google obscure euro facts.

Kleber in fact played more than 24 games in the same league as Melli, it was 61 games, actually, while they were both playing in Germany at the same time. And he would have played in the Euroleague, had he not been injured. It's kind of weird to treat Euroleague as an all or nothing thing. If you play Euroleague you're a good player, if you don't you're not. There's plenty of Eurocup teams that could play and win in the Euroleague and have done just that, played one year in the Eurocup and next year in the Euroleague. The nine years of Euroleague in itself don't impress me much, Uroš Slokar for example played five seasons of Euroleague and played (well, had a contract) in the NBA, still not a Euroleague legend.

However, you were right in the spirit of things if not in the exact wording, and I was wrong, got to give you that. Melli started making a name for himself in Bamberg and played better in the Euroleague than in the Bundesliga. In his last year with Bamberg he was selected to the All-Euroleague second team and then left for Fenerbahce.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#96 » by Bob8 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:27 pm

deb wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
deb wrote:


Well I was responding to Bob8 saying they didn't play in the same league. They did. In 16/17 Brose ended the regular season in 2nd place in the Bundesliga with 58 points and Bayern 3rd with 56.

Also, the most Melli averaged in the Euroleague before joining Brose at age 24 was 5.3 ppg, not exactly " an EL player with good stats and reputation". He actually left Armani to go to Brose because he wanted more playing time and a bigger role. He got both, but Brose was not exactly a top level Euroleague team either.

Additionally, Bayern also played in the Euroleague in 2015/16, but Maxi was injured, so didn't play in the Euroleague. Bayern was knocked out of Euroleague quickly and finished the season in Eurocup, where Maxi did play.

Again, I'm not saying Maxi would have had a better career than Melli, had he stayed in Europe. Most likely not, I feel Melli is a more skilled player, whereas Maxi is a more physical one, thus better suited to the NBA. But I still maintain that Melli made most of his European reputation in Fenerbahce, and there wasn't that huge of a gap between Melli's and Maxi's European accomplishments before 2017.

Overall, including Melli's Fenerbahce years, there is a huge gap in European accomplishments in favor of Melli.


Kleber played only 24 games in the same league as Melli. 0 in Euroleague.

Melli made his name in Brose playing in Euroleague. In his last season he averaged 11.5/7.5/2.3 with 53.5% for 2 and 43.4% for 3, that's elite numbers for Euroleague. That's why Fener, who was Euroleague champion and financially one of the strongest clubs in Europe, bought him. So yes, he was top3 Pf in Europe before joining Fener.


Hehe, I see you are a contrarian, just like me, and I forced you to go google obscure euro facts.

Kleber in fact played more than 24 games in the same league as Melli, it was 61 games, actually, while they were both playing in Germany at the same time. And he would have played in the Euroleague, had he not been injured. It's kind of weird to treat Euroleague as an all or nothing thing. If you play Euroleague you're a good player, if you don't you're not. There's plenty of Eurocup teams that could play and win in the Euroleague and have done just that, played one year in the Eurocup and next year in the Euroleague. The nine years of Euroleague in itself don't impress me much, Uroš Slokar for example played five seasons of Euroleague and played (well, had a contract) in the NBA, still not a Euroleague legend.

However, you were right in the spirit of things if not in the exact wording, and I was wrong, got to give you that. Melli started making a name for himself in Bamberg and played better in the Euroleague than in the Bundesliga. In his last year with Bamberg he was selected to the All-Euroleague second team and then left for Fenerbahce.


So you're counting Kleber's time in Wurzburg. ;) I meant actually playing together in the same time.

German league is 5th tier competition, so I really don't believe performance there, if not exceptional, means anything.

Eurocup or Champion league clubs are few tiers below Euroleague clubs, with exception of some clubs who have big plans for the future and are not in Euroleague yet. Euroleague is semi closed league. Most clubs have A license, some qualify through other competition, that's why some clubs are going in and out. The fact is that playing in Euroleague is the goal for every player and best players play there.

Melli didn't only played in Euroleague like Slokar, but he was multiple years top3 Pf in Euroleague, which we cannot say about Slokar.

If you have watched Melli played in Euroleague, than you for sure know, how much more talent he has. But like I said, that doesn't necessarily means, he will be as useful as Kleber in Nba.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#97 » by deb » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:07 pm

Bob8 wrote:
deb wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Kleber played only 24 games in the same league as Melli. 0 in Euroleague.

Melli made his name in Brose playing in Euroleague. In his last season he averaged 11.5/7.5/2.3 with 53.5% for 2 and 43.4% for 3, that's elite numbers for Euroleague. That's why Fener, who was Euroleague champion and financially one of the strongest clubs in Europe, bought him. So yes, he was top3 Pf in Europe before joining Fener.


Hehe, I see you are a contrarian, just like me, and I forced you to go google obscure euro facts.

Kleber in fact played more than 24 games in the same league as Melli, it was 61 games, actually, while they were both playing in Germany at the same time. And he would have played in the Euroleague, had he not been injured. It's kind of weird to treat Euroleague as an all or nothing thing. If you play Euroleague you're a good player, if you don't you're not. There's plenty of Eurocup teams that could play and win in the Euroleague and have done just that, played one year in the Eurocup and next year in the Euroleague. The nine years of Euroleague in itself don't impress me much, Uroš Slokar for example played five seasons of Euroleague and played (well, had a contract) in the NBA, still not a Euroleague legend.

However, you were right in the spirit of things if not in the exact wording, and I was wrong, got to give you that. Melli started making a name for himself in Bamberg and played better in the Euroleague than in the Bundesliga. In his last year with Bamberg he was selected to the All-Euroleague second team and then left for Fenerbahce.


So you're counting Kleber's time in Wurzburg. ;) I meant actually playing together in the same time.

German league is 5th tier competition, so I really don't believe performance there, if not exceptional, means anything.

Eurocup or Champion league clubs are few tiers below Euroleague clubs, with exception of some clubs who have big plans for the future and are not in Euroleague yet. Euroleague is semi closed league. Most clubs have A license, some qualify through other competition, that's why some clubs are going in and out. The fact is that playing in Euroleague is the goal for every player and best players play there.

Melli didn't only played in Euroleague like Slokar, but he was multiple years top3 Pf in Euroleague, which we cannot say about Slokar.

If you have watched Melli played in Euroleague, than you for sure know, how much more talent he has. But like I said, that doesn't necessarily means, he will be as useful as Kleber in Nba.


No, Maxi and Melli both played 2015/16 and 2016/17 seasons in the Bundesliga. Maxi only played 24 games in 2015/16 due to injuries and thus also missed playing in the Euroleague, even though his team did in fact play Euroleague that season. So what does that make Bayern in comparison to Bamberg? Was Bamberg a few tiers above Bayern in 2015/16, if they played in the exact same competitions? Bamberg was better, but the difference was not as big as you're trying to make it.

Maxi then played 37 games in 2016/17 Bundesliga, combining for 61 caps in the two years Melli and Maxi played in the same competition.

Melli was a great Euroleague player, but he only became one after he joined Bamberg, before he was sorta Slokar level in production. So if we're arguing European production before Maxi joined the mavs in 2017, you can't say Melli was a multiple times top 3 pf in Euroleague because at that time he wasn't. He had a decent Euroleague season in 2015/16 and then a good one in 2016/17 earning All-Euroleague 2nd team while his team managed to win a whopping 10 of 30 games in Euroleage and finished 13th of 16th.

He then went to Fenerbahce where he became a Euroleague great, but that's beside the point, we're arguing about pre Fenerbahce production.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#98 » by Bob8 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:21 pm

deb wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
deb wrote:
Hehe, I see you are a contrarian, just like me, and I forced you to go google obscure euro facts.

Kleber in fact played more than 24 games in the same league as Melli, it was 61 games, actually, while they were both playing in Germany at the same time. And he would have played in the Euroleague, had he not been injured. It's kind of weird to treat Euroleague as an all or nothing thing. If you play Euroleague you're a good player, if you don't you're not. There's plenty of Eurocup teams that could play and win in the Euroleague and have done just that, played one year in the Eurocup and next year in the Euroleague. The nine years of Euroleague in itself don't impress me much, Uroš Slokar for example played five seasons of Euroleague and played (well, had a contract) in the NBA, still not a Euroleague legend.

However, you were right in the spirit of things if not in the exact wording, and I was wrong, got to give you that. Melli started making a name for himself in Bamberg and played better in the Euroleague than in the Bundesliga. In his last year with Bamberg he was selected to the All-Euroleague second team and then left for Fenerbahce.


So you're counting Kleber's time in Wurzburg. ;) I meant actually playing together in the same time.

German league is 5th tier competition, so I really don't believe performance there, if not exceptional, means anything.

Eurocup or Champion league clubs are few tiers below Euroleague clubs, with exception of some clubs who have big plans for the future and are not in Euroleague yet. Euroleague is semi closed league. Most clubs have A license, some qualify through other competition, that's why some clubs are going in and out. The fact is that playing in Euroleague is the goal for every player and best players play there.

Melli didn't only played in Euroleague like Slokar, but he was multiple years top3 Pf in Euroleague, which we cannot say about Slokar.

If you have watched Melli played in Euroleague, than you for sure know, how much more talent he has. But like I said, that doesn't necessarily means, he will be as useful as Kleber in Nba.


No, Maxi and Melli both played 2015/16 and 2016/17 seasons in the Bundesliga. Maxi only played 24 games in 2015/16 due to injuries and thus also missed playing in the Euroleague, even though his team did in fact play Euroleague that season. So what does that make Bayern in comparison to Bamberg? Was Bamberg a few tiers above Bayern in 2015/16, if they played in the exact same competitions? Bamberg was better, but the difference was not as big as you're trying to make it.

Maxi then played 37 games in 2016/17 Bundesliga, combining for 61 caps in the two years Melli and Maxi played in the same competition.

Melli was a great Euroleague player, but he only became one after he joined Bamberg, before he was sorta Slokar level in production. So if we're arguing European production before Maxi joined the mavs in 2017, you can't say Melli was a multiple times top 3 pf in Euroleague because at that time he wasn't. He had a decent Euroleague season in 2015/16 and then a good one in 2016/17 earning All-Euroleague 2nd team while his team managed to win a whopping 10 of 30 games in Euroleage and finished 13th of 16th.

He then went to Fenerbahce where he became a Euroleague great, but that's beside the point, we're arguing about pre Fenerbahce production.


I don't know, for me his best year was in Brose, but it's true it's easier to play in lesser club. My main point still stands, Melli was more talented, at least for European style of basketball.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#99 » by 41Dirk41 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:59 pm

@deb

Probably you're right and i overvalue Melli because i see him play a lot of time, but i can assicure you that in Europe he had a lot of respect when he played for Milano.

Don't look too much at the stats, in Europe is very hard to make monster stats.
Kyle Hines is a EL legend and he averaged 8points and 4 rebound in his Championship seasons...Luka is Luka and he averaged 16+5+4 in his MVP season.
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Re: RS 20/21 - Mavs @ Wizards (Sat. 7PM EST) 

Post#100 » by DrPampiloni » Mon Apr 5, 2021 9:07 pm

41Dirk41 wrote:@deb

Probably you're right and i overvalue Melli because i see him play a lot of time, but i can assicure you that in Europe he had a lot of respect when he played for Milano.

Don't look too much at the stats, in Europe is very hard to make monster stats.
Kyle Hines is a EL legend and he averaged 8points and 4 rebound in his Championship seasons...Luka is Luka and he averaged 16+5+4 in his MVP season.


I see that deb already succeeded in bringing you to a more reasonable position. I will simply recap by saying:
1) It's pointless to use the time of Melli at Fenerbahce as an argument here. Maxi is one year younger and cracked the rotation as an NBA player already as a rookie in the 2017-18 season, while Nico stayed in Europe and went to a Euroleague contender. Before that season as Bob8 clarified, they did put out similar stats in the German BBL (which was my point).
2) I am a European basketball fan, you need not tell me how Euroleague is a different caliber. Be that as it may ACB is arguably the 2nd best league in Europe and Maxi had a very strong season in Spain as 23 year old https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/maxi-kleber-1.html. If Maxi had stayed in Europe he would have been for sure a highly coveted Euroleague player, his only issue were always injuries. I have nothing but love for Nico (I am Italian and proud of his achievements) but I think that we should not expect too much out of him.


EDIT: I mixed up Bob8 with deb originally. My mistake: apologies to both :D

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