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Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year.

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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#21 » by arkuo » Mon May 17, 2021 4:36 am

Luka needs to be mentally strong entering the playoffs this year. Everyone knows Morris has his number and knows what buttons to press to get techs out of these two Euro kids. Look for Morris to try to step on Luka's ankle again. He will pull these tricks. Up to the Mavs to respond and hit back and set the tone for the series. Unfortunately Donnie traded the bruiser in James Johnson for Reddick who's on vacation right now.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#22 » by Apz » Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 am

So, if u remove the **** ghat were before asg, what does it look like? I really dont care about the stats before that, luka was worked like a dog when like 5 of top 7 were oug for a month, and u could see it tired him. They gog a week rest now, for luka its the first rest all season. He is close to a 30p triple double on average, what do people demand? Average a 40? 50? Even with all that **** before asg, he carried this team to 5th ahead of and with better stats and with worse supporting cast then curry lebron ad dame. I would say that in the west, only jokic been better
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#23 » by wolfram » Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 am

Luka has great impact with his playmaking and scoring. But Curry is on another level as a scorer. I watched him yesterday, he is a cheat code. Hard to put him above Curry and Jokic in the West. But Luka should still be 1st or 2nd team All NBA.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#24 » by ACMFFL » Mon May 17, 2021 11:09 am

wolfram wrote:Luka has great impact with his playmaking and scoring. But Curry is on another level as a scorer. I watched him yesterday, he is a cheat code. Hard to put him above Curry and Jokic in the West. But Luka should still be 1st or 2nd team All NBA.


Imo Luka should be a lock for the 1st team: Jokic/Giannis/Kawhi/Steph/Luka
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#25 » by KhalilS » Mon May 17, 2021 2:32 pm

It's between him and Dame, too close to call really.

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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#26 » by fuller4379 » Mon May 17, 2021 2:56 pm

KhalilS wrote:It's between him and Dame, too close to call really.

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I don't want Lillard to get it because I hate the whiny Portland media. Lillard has a better supporting cast and the same record. Luka has more assists per game and about the twice the rebounds per game. It will be close though.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#27 » by Absinthe » Mon May 17, 2021 5:54 pm

There’s been way too many injuries and covid related issues this season. That’s got a lot to do with it. At one point, the Mavs lead the league in games missed due to covid protocol. The second half of the season has seen Maxi and Porzingis missing significant time. So yes, when your primary ball handler and playmaker is having to consistently operate with different starting line ups it’s going to impact team chemistry and efficiency. It’s a no brainer. When the Mavs got healthy, he started playing better. It’s a numbers game.

Also, he definitely entered the season out of shape. It’s no secret. I won’t dispute that.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#28 » by leolozon » Mon May 17, 2021 7:33 pm

Apz wrote:So, if u remove the **** ghat were before asg, what does it look like? I really dont care about the stats before that, luka was worked like a dog when like 5 of top 7 were oug for a month, and u could see it tired him. They gog a week rest now, for luka its the first rest all season. He is close to a 30p triple double on average, what do people demand? Average a 40? 50? Even with all that **** before asg, he carried this team to 5th ahead of and with better stats and with worse supporting cast then curry lebron ad dame. I would say that in the west, only jokic been better


He has been ever so slightly worst on counting stats after the all-star break, even when considering that he played 1.7 mpg less.

26.9/7.6/8.2 post vs 28.6/8.4/9.0 pre, both on .587 TS%.

People don't demand anything, but it's normal to expect a 3rd year player to get better, no matter if you consider that he is or not. I think it's arguable, but I would side with slightly worse offensively and better defensively.

I was personally expecting his FT% to go up to close to .800, his 3p% to go up to 35% and his FG% close to the rim to stay the same. So for him to get to .600 TS% +. Plus, of course, work on his body. I think it's reasonable. I'm not sure why the need to use fallacies with "average 40-50 ppg".

The guy is maybe the best 2nd year player ever, you have to have some expectations.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#29 » by Bob8 » Mon May 17, 2021 8:15 pm

leolozon wrote:
Apz wrote:So, if u remove the **** ghat were before asg, what does it look like? I really dont care about the stats before that, luka was worked like a dog when like 5 of top 7 were oug for a month, and u could see it tired him. They gog a week rest now, for luka its the first rest all season. He is close to a 30p triple double on average, what do people demand? Average a 40? 50? Even with all that **** before asg, he carried this team to 5th ahead of and with better stats and with worse supporting cast then curry lebron ad dame. I would say that in the west, only jokic been better


He has been ever so slightly worst on counting stats after the all-star break, even when considering that he played 1.7 mpg less.

26.9/7.6/8.2 post vs 28.6/8.4/9.0 pre, both on .587 TS%.

People don't demand anything, but it's normal to expect a 3rd year player to get better, no matter if you consider that he is or not. I think it's arguable, but I would side with slightly worse offensively and better defensively.

I was personally expecting his FT% to go up to close to .800, his 3p% to go up to 35% and his FG% close to the rim to stay the same. So for him to get to .600 TS% +. Plus, of course, work on his body. I think it's reasonable. I'm not sure why the need to use fallacies with "average 40-50 ppg".

The guy is maybe the best 2nd year player ever, you have to have some expectations.


You really don't see difference between his second and third year? 7 months offseason vs. 3 months offseason? Easy schedule with few months preparation for a bubble vs. crazy difficult schedule?
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#30 » by leolozon » Mon May 17, 2021 11:14 pm

Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
Apz wrote:So, if u remove the **** ghat were before asg, what does it look like? I really dont care about the stats before that, luka was worked like a dog when like 5 of top 7 were oug for a month, and u could see it tired him. They gog a week rest now, for luka its the first rest all season. He is close to a 30p triple double on average, what do people demand? Average a 40? 50? Even with all that **** before asg, he carried this team to 5th ahead of and with better stats and with worse supporting cast then curry lebron ad dame. I would say that in the west, only jokic been better


He has been ever so slightly worst on counting stats after the all-star break, even when considering that he played 1.7 mpg less.

26.9/7.6/8.2 post vs 28.6/8.4/9.0 pre, both on .587 TS%.

People don't demand anything, but it's normal to expect a 3rd year player to get better, no matter if you consider that he is or not. I think it's arguable, but I would side with slightly worse offensively and better defensively.

I was personally expecting his FT% to go up to close to .800, his 3p% to go up to 35% and his FG% close to the rim to stay the same. So for him to get to .600 TS% +. Plus, of course, work on his body. I think it's reasonable. I'm not sure why the need to use fallacies with "average 40-50 ppg".

The guy is maybe the best 2nd year player ever, you have to have some expectations.


You really don't see difference between his second and third year? 7 months offseason vs. 3 months offseason? Easy schedule with few months preparation for a bubble vs. crazy difficult schedule?


It's always weird when someone exaggerates one number up and the other down.

From official game to official game, it's 6.5 months vs close to 4 months (+ 4.5 months of covid before the bubble). Not 7 vs 3. Even if it's a small sample size, he did go basically 30/10/10 on around .600 TS% in the bubble and the idea was that the 4.5 months off was like an offseason and he was better.

Some superstars aren't affected by the tough schedule.

People are so defensive of Doncic it's crazy. He's my favorite player and a top 10 guy in the NBA, but I'm not blind. He never managed to get completely in shape all season long and did regress in some ways during the RS, mostly because of it. I don't even understand how that can be a debate.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#31 » by Bob8 » Tue May 18, 2021 5:57 am

leolozon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
He has been ever so slightly worst on counting stats after the all-star break, even when considering that he played 1.7 mpg less.

26.9/7.6/8.2 post vs 28.6/8.4/9.0 pre, both on .587 TS%.

People don't demand anything, but it's normal to expect a 3rd year player to get better, no matter if you consider that he is or not. I think it's arguable, but I would side with slightly worse offensively and better defensively.

I was personally expecting his FT% to go up to close to .800, his 3p% to go up to 35% and his FG% close to the rim to stay the same. So for him to get to .600 TS% +. Plus, of course, work on his body. I think it's reasonable. I'm not sure why the need to use fallacies with "average 40-50 ppg".

The guy is maybe the best 2nd year player ever, you have to have some expectations.


You really don't see difference between his second and third year? 7 months offseason vs. 3 months offseason? Easy schedule with few months preparation for a bubble vs. crazy difficult schedule?


It's always weird when someone exaggerates one number up and the other down.

From official game to official game, it's 6.5 months vs close to 4 months (+ 4.5 months of covid before the bubble). Not 7 vs 3. Even if it's a small sample size, he did go basically 30/10/10 on around .600 TS% in the bubble and the idea was that the 4.5 months off was like an offseason and he was better.

Some superstars aren't affected by the tough schedule.

People are so defensive of Doncic it's crazy. He's my favorite player and a top 10 guy in the NBA, but I'm not blind. He never managed to get completely in shape all season long and did regress in some ways during the RS, mostly because of it. I don't even understand how that can be a debate.


He had 2 offseasons last year, before regular season and before bubble. He played 61 games in 10 months last year and 66 in 5 months this year. If you don't see huge difference in this and last season, then ...
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#32 » by guille_4 » Tue May 18, 2021 12:09 pm

I think he has improved slightly as an offensive player.

Shooting 3s or going to the rim are more important in the regular season.

Developing a midrange-game is key in tight games and in the playoffs. He has improved a lot in the midrange.

I agree that FT shooting is a concern. I think it is affected by stamina, he started the season shooting FT better. Hopefully this is something he can focus on in the offseason.

In terms of his 3PT shooting, I think going from 31.6% to 35% is a big improvement. Hopefully this is something he can keep improving as it is key to his game. Shooting 38% would be huge for Luka.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#33 » by agentofatlas » Wed May 19, 2021 6:56 pm

arkuo wrote:The eye test says Luka had more success in highlight passes last year. Those long dimes for a corner 3 or an alley oop pass from a pick and roll. He had more of those last year. Is it a case of being scouted by NBA coaches?


It's more of the case that the Mavs have no real roll threat other than Dwight.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#34 » by XTraderXL » Thu May 20, 2021 8:00 am

As for Lukas FTs, he is definitely capable of 85% and eventually even 90%. A bad FT shooter will never go 12/12 in a game. Luka has a few of such games every year which means he is actually a pretty good FT shooter in a vacuum. His issue is mental and when he fixes that and starts hitting FTs at 85%+, he will go to another level as a player. Right now he is way too inconsistent to be relied upon at the line. He should be shooting every tech and be handed the ball at the end of close games when the other team has to foul. You cant have Richardson touch the ball as you never know if he is going to catch or fumble. But at least he hits the FTs haha
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#35 » by ozwizard8 » Fri May 21, 2021 10:08 am

Out of shape posts are just not true. It was only true for first 2 weeks. Luka/Jokic will not look ripped. Just make a peace with that body type.
In general, Luka needed to spend much more energy due to injuries and his focus on defense. Not having time to rest due to short season also took a toll. So in some games he was just off. He usually come back with a very good game in the next one. However for stats, you cannot get your average back when you play with 30% energy one game and 90% energy next one.

Luka’s offensive efficiency also declined due to his teammates on the court.
Seth Curry was running round the screens and creating multiple threats for the defense which was opening lanes, disrupt the defense. As he’s replaced with Josh Richardson, now J.Richardson defender always clogged the paint and the opponent team brought help/double team to Luka.
Seth>>JRich for Luka on offense.
Same thing goes for KP as well. James Johnson/Melli minutes and some center minutes would go to KP if he was healthy. Last year he actually had good months where he was bringing the big men out and letting Luka to finish at the rim without 3 men suffocating him.

So considering these changes, small decline on offense is not a big deal.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#36 » by Archx » Fri May 21, 2021 12:29 pm

ozwizard8 wrote:Out of shape posts are just not true. It was only true for first 2 weeks. Luka/Jokic will not look ripped. Just make a peace with that body type.
In general, Luka needed to spend much more energy due to injuries and his focus on defense. Not having time to rest due to short season also took a toll. So in some games he was just off. He usually come back with a very good game in the next one. However for stats, you cannot get your average back when you play with 30% energy one game and 90% energy next one.


Well, he even admited himself that he is not where he wants to be regarding his body. It's hard to argue against that :D He was way more bouncy and lean when he played with our national team and it's not like he's 10 years older now. It's 100% slowing him down. Look at the bubble for example, huge difference since then.

But he also said couple of days ago that he had COVID at some point, so i have no clue how that affected his season. He said he didn't feel it or maybe had it before the bubble even. Who knows...but he absolutely needs couple of months off and just get in to the gym and work on his game and body. The problem is, he wants to play for our country again when the playoffs end, so that will also automatically shorten his next off season.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#37 » by ozwizard8 » Fri May 28, 2021 9:29 pm

Archx wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:Out of shape posts are just not true. It was only true for first 2 weeks. Luka/Jokic will not look ripped. Just make a peace with that body type.
In general, Luka needed to spend much more energy due to injuries and his focus on defense. Not having time to rest due to short season also took a toll. So in some games he was just off. He usually come back with a very good game in the next one. However for stats, you cannot get your average back when you play with 30% energy one game and 90% energy next one.


Well, he even admited himself that he is not where he wants to be regarding his body. It's hard to argue against that :D He was way more bouncy and lean when he played with our national team and it's not like he's 10 years older now. It's 100% slowing him down. Look at the bubble for example, huge difference since then.

But he also said couple of days ago that he had COVID at some point, so i have no clue how that affected his season. He said he didn't feel it or maybe had it before the bubble even. Who knows...but he absolutely needs couple of months off and just get in to the gym and work on his game and body. The problem is, he wants to play for our country again when the playoffs end, so that will also automatically shorten his next off season.

He said that for the initial part of the season. And in general, you'll always work to have a better conditioning/body etc.

In general, your post is just BS. Doncic never had lean muscle body type. He was thinner as he was younger. Like most European players coming to NBA, he gain weight on purpose. This is no European Championship. Doncic needed those muscle/mass and now you see how he performs in playoffs. He ****' bodies not just Beverley but also forwards like Morris-Kawhi-PG. Even against Zubac he can put shoulder to drive.

For both Doncic and Jokic people should just make peace with their looks. Don't expect lean muscle on those guys. They might not have 'defined' muscles showing up but they're **** strong. And they can accelerate, decelerate pretty quickly as well. They're not leapers but they have great core strength.
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Re: Luka has been statistically a worse offensive player than last year. 

Post#38 » by Archx » Fri May 28, 2021 10:26 pm

ozwizard8 wrote:
Archx wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:Out of shape posts are just not true. It was only true for first 2 weeks. Luka/Jokic will not look ripped. Just make a peace with that body type.
In general, Luka needed to spend much more energy due to injuries and his focus on defense. Not having time to rest due to short season also took a toll. So in some games he was just off. He usually come back with a very good game in the next one. However for stats, you cannot get your average back when you play with 30% energy one game and 90% energy next one.


Well, he even admited himself that he is not where he wants to be regarding his body. It's hard to argue against that :D He was way more bouncy and lean when he played with our national team and it's not like he's 10 years older now. It's 100% slowing him down. Look at the bubble for example, huge difference since then.

But he also said couple of days ago that he had COVID at some point, so i have no clue how that affected his season. He said he didn't feel it or maybe had it before the bubble even. Who knows...but he absolutely needs couple of months off and just get in to the gym and work on his game and body. The problem is, he wants to play for our country again when the playoffs end, so that will also automatically shorten his next off season.

He said that for the initial part of the season. And in general, you'll always work to have a better conditioning/body etc.

In general, your post is just BS. Doncic never had lean muscle body type. He was thinner as he was younger. Like most European players coming to NBA, he gain weight on purpose. This is no European Championship. Doncic needed those muscle/mass and now you see how he performs in playoffs. He ****' bodies not just Beverley but also forwards like Morris-Kawhi-PG. Even against Zubac he can put shoulder to drive.

For both Doncic and Jokic people should just make peace with their looks. Don't expect lean muscle on those guys. They might not have 'defined' muscles showing up but they're **** strong. And they can accelerate, decelerate pretty quickly as well. They're not leapers but they have great core strength.


Dude, do you even know how Jokic looked like before he slimmed down? Or better yet, do you even have a clue how fast and strong Luka already was before he even came to the NBA? Dude was moving around grown ass ex-NBA players in the post and guarding PF's.
What are you talking about? Luka and Jokic both need/had to slim down because of the long season and also to minimize risking injuries. Not to mention to have a long career. They absolutely DON'T NEED to have such high body mass. And btw who was talking about being ripped? Have you ever worked out in your life? You can shape and prepare your body whichever way you want and still be very strong. Doesn't have to be ripped like you often repeated.

You say my post is BS when i literally re-wrote what he and his trainers said. How do you know more about him than us who are actually from Slovenia? It was an article literally few days ago when Luka was talking about off season and how he needs to work out, but will probably be delayed because he wants to play for our NT.

Luka was thin when he was obviously very young but then he started to become more stronger and stronger but was still bouncy and very quick on his feet. How was that possible? Because his body was still working differently than year later when those lean muscles started gaining more "flesh" on them. It was clearly noticable at the end of the Real Madrid campaing when Luka was exhausted even before they reached final 4.
He can absolutely develop athletic and strong body. He already has all the tools. Unless you want him to be in shape for 50-60 games each year and that's it.

But anyway, i have no desire to discuss this same topic over and over again. Believe what you want and i also will believe what we often hear from him or his staff directly.

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