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Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST)

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Bob8
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#201 » by Bob8 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 12:11 pm

arkuo wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Carlisle's game plan was a 5-out offense. Everyone was instructed to stand outside so Luka can run around inside improvising. This is where coaching, or lack thereof, is apparent. If spot up shooting was key, the only one of KP, DFS and Kleber needed to be on the floor at any given time. The others can just be plain defenders.

All three of KP, DFS and Kleber had the same task on offense. Which is to just stand outside and wait for a pass. That's just redundant. I'd actually experiment on having KP play PF next year as long as you can get a bigger SF like Covington and a C like Holmes. That way Covington can switch on to SF or PF on defense covering for KP's slower lateral movements.


I didn't see no problem with Luka feeding Boban or Powell and I didn't see KP playing differently, when Luka was not playing. I have never seen KP attacking smaller defender. His only move is shooting over them. Saying that, his offense might be salvageable, but KP without D is unless for Mavs.


I guess Carlisle needs to be more creative in squeezing more out of KP next season. That's still a $100M investment and I'm pretty sure Cuban doesn't want to flush that down the drain just yet. I feel like he will give it one more year to see where it goes. He's not getting equal value anyway, so why rush to send him out? At this point, Dallas has to incentivize Boston to take KP for Walker. Imagine adding a first round pick to KP just to get 31 year old Kemba Walker.


Because things won't change overnight. Kp is what he's, Luka is what he's and RC is what he's. But mostly, I don't believe KP will become good defender again.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#202 » by arkuo » Tue Jun 8, 2021 12:14 pm

Bob8 wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
I didn't see no problem with Luka feeding Boban or Powell and I didn't see KP playing differently, when Luka was not playing. I have never seen KP attacking smaller defender. His only move is shooting over them. Saying that, his offense might be salvageable, but KP without D is unless for Mavs.


I guess Carlisle needs to be more creative in squeezing more out of KP next season. That's still a $100M investment and I'm pretty sure Cuban doesn't want to flush that down the drain just yet. I feel like he will give it one more year to see where it goes. He's not getting equal value anyway, so why rush to send him out? At this point, Dallas has to incentivize Boston to take KP for Walker. Imagine adding a first round pick to KP just to get 31 year old Kemba Walker.


Because things won't change overnight. Kp is what he's and Luka is what he's.


Agreed. Although Luka still has a higher ceiling than KP.

If Luka was Magic, then Cuban needs to get him a James Worthy. Lengthy forward, can guard multiple positions.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#203 » by MrOrange » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:09 pm

Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:And? What's your point 1) Stop pretending that LD is some kind of messiah and 2) Mavs would do a big favour to KP and to Latvian basketball fans if they actually traded KP. We actually beg for that :)
And 7'3 bigs normally know how to play in the post and are at least decent rim protectors.

Luka injured his ankle in the final against Serbia. They played Spain in the semifinals.

Luka was 18 years old In Eurobasket, so it's normal that Dragic in his prime was a leader.


Than we agree at least on something. Mavs and KP will be better off. KP should enjoy being star in Detroit for example. ;)

Is anyone particular that you wish to get from Detroit in that trade? :D Or that would be a trade out of spite? I actually know one sort of DET related guy who I would love to see on the Mavs and who would contribute. His name is Delon Wright who was later traded from DET to SAC. HAHA. EDIT: Sorry, mate, you seem to be stuck with KP at the moment. Because neither Cuban nor Donnie makes decisions based on silly takes from the fans. If you really want a trade that would make the media, fans and the talking heads blow up your internet connection for years to come: may I suggest KP for Julius Randle 8-)
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#204 » by Bob8 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:53 pm

MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:


Than we agree at least on something. Mavs and KP will be better off. KP should enjoy being star in Detroit for example. ;)

Is anyone particular that you wish to get from Detroit in that trade? :D Or that would be a trade out of spite? I actually know one sort of DET related guy who I would love to see on the Mavs and who would contribute. His name is Delon Wright who was later traded from DET to SAC. HAHA. EDIT: Sorry, mate, you seem to be stuck with KP at the moment. Because neither Cuban nor Donnie makes decisions based on silly takes from the fans. If you really want a trade that would make the media, fans and the talking heads blow up your internet connection for years to come: may I suggest KP for Julius Randle 8-)


No, I want only the best for KP and his fans. KP in Detroit might have some chances to be the best scorer of the team. ;) And it's kinda cool that both main pieces of the trade end together.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#205 » by MrOrange » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:38 pm

Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Than we agree at least on something. Mavs and KP will be better off. KP should enjoy being star in Detroit for example. ;)

Is anyone particular that you wish to get from Detroit in that trade? :D Or that would be a trade out of spite? I actually know one sort of DET related guy who I would love to see on the Mavs and who would contribute. His name is Delon Wright who was later traded from DET to SAC. HAHA. EDIT: Sorry, mate, you seem to be stuck with KP at the moment. Because neither Cuban nor Donnie makes decisions based on silly takes from the fans. If you really want a trade that would make the media, fans and the talking heads blow up your internet connection for years to come: may I suggest KP for Julius Randle 8-)


No, I want only the best for KP and his fans. KP in Detroit might have some chances to be the best scorer of the team. ;) And it's kinda cool that both main pieces of the trade end together.

I kinda wish the best to the Mavs. A title that is. Because I have followed the team since Dirk and Nash and Finley and Nelson as a coach. This will not come until they will stop playing a one-person dominating game with a ridiculous usage rate. And no superstars are coming in FA because there is nobody in this league that I am aware of, who would wish to play a secondary role to Luka. You should be looking at superstar veterans at the veteran minimum - the only thing that would work in the current state of play. And I am actually not trying to be nasty here, just objective.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#206 » by Bob8 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:03 pm

MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:Is anyone particular that you wish to get from Detroit in that trade? :D Or that would be a trade out of spite? I actually know one sort of DET related guy who I would love to see on the Mavs and who would contribute. His name is Delon Wright who was later traded from DET to SAC. HAHA. EDIT: Sorry, mate, you seem to be stuck with KP at the moment. Because neither Cuban nor Donnie makes decisions based on silly takes from the fans. If you really want a trade that would make the media, fans and the talking heads blow up your internet connection for years to come: may I suggest KP for Julius Randle 8-)


No, I want only the best for KP and his fans. KP in Detroit might have some chances to be the best scorer of the team. ;) And it's kinda cool that both main pieces of the trade end together.

I kinda wish the best to the Mavs. A title that is. Because I have followed the team since Dirk and Nash and Finley and Nelson as a coach. This will not come until they will stop playing a one-person dominating game with a ridiculous usage rate. And no superstars are coming in FA because there is nobody in this league that I am aware of, who would wish to play a secondary role to Luka. You should be looking at superstar veterans at the veteran minimum - the only thing that would work in the current state of play. And I am actually not trying to be nasty here, just objective.


If max.player plays like KP then they for sure won't. Change him with Gobert and Richardson with Seth and they for sure could.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#207 » by leolozon » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:25 am

Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Here you have for first 6 games and it looked even more obvious tonight.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender/


I'm not sure how this is an argument against what I said.

First, you would have to take Luka out of the equation, because he does his own thing with his step back 3. Luka was wide open on only 7.3%.

Considering the % I'm seeing from 3 (34.7% open and wide open for the Mavs and 38.1% for the Clips), minus Luka, I'm standing by the idea that the Mavs role players were also taking open 3s in this game and the difference was that they didn't hit them. A difference of 3.4% (minus Luka) can't explain shooting around 25% (without Luka) VS 46%.


You can look for last game only. Like I thought, Clippers were shooting wide open all night.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender/


I never said that the Clippers weren't shooting open 3s. Arguing with you is so frustrating. It's like you don't read. It's a waste of time. Learn to argue against what people are saying.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#208 » by Bob8 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:52 am

[list=][/list]
leolozon wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
leolozon wrote:
I'm not sure how this is an argument against what I said.

First, you would have to take Luka out of the equation, because he does his own thing with his step back 3. Luka was wide open on only 7.3%.

Considering the % I'm seeing from 3 (34.7% open and wide open for the Mavs and 38.1% for the Clips), minus Luka, I'm standing by the idea that the Mavs role players were also taking open 3s in this game and the difference was that they didn't hit them. A difference of 3.4% (minus Luka) can't explain shooting around 25% (without Luka) VS 46%.


You can look for last game only. Like I thought, Clippers were shooting wide open all night.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender/


I never said that the Clippers weren't shooting open 3s. Arguing with you is so frustrating. It's like you don't read. It's a waste of time. Learn to argue against what people are saying.


Start of our conversation,

Me,
"Difference was obvious. Clippers shots were wide open in higher %."

You" Unless you have numbers, I don't think it was in a % high enough to explain the difference in shooting.

I provided you with numbers, like you demanded, which say that Clippers had 2x higher % of wide open 3s than Mavs in last game and you say may argument is not valid. I honestly don't know what more can I do.
Playing Zone with Boban and KP is taking calculated risk. Having that high % of wide open 3s not necessarily means you will shoot great, but normally that helps a lot.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#209 » by MrOrange » Wed Jun 9, 2021 7:33 am

Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
No, I want only the best for KP and his fans. KP in Detroit might have some chances to be the best scorer of the team. ;) And it's kinda cool that both main pieces of the trade end together.

I kinda wish the best to the Mavs. A title that is. Because I have followed the team since Dirk and Nash and Finley and Nelson as a coach. This will not come until they will stop playing a one-person dominating game with a ridiculous usage rate. And no superstars are coming in FA because there is nobody in this league that I am aware of, who would wish to play a secondary role to Luka. You should be looking at superstar veterans at the veteran minimum - the only thing that would work in the current state of play. And I am actually not trying to be nasty here, just objective.


If max.player plays like KP then they for sure won't. Change him with Gobert and Richardson with Seth and they for sure could.


KP and Gobert are polar opposites. Hard to compare. The only player on the Mavs remotely comparable to him is Boban. And nobody knows how Carlisle would utilize Gobert. And I think that Snyder has done an excellent job for Jazz. I have kinda lost trust in Carlisle in the course of this season and POs. Curry and Richardson's situation is a no-brainer. A horrible trade when the result is that you even cannot play JR during the POs. And I also think that letting Wright go was a mistake.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#210 » by Bob8 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 9:55 am

MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:I kinda wish the best to the Mavs. A title that is. Because I have followed the team since Dirk and Nash and Finley and Nelson as a coach. This will not come until they will stop playing a one-person dominating game with a ridiculous usage rate. And no superstars are coming in FA because there is nobody in this league that I am aware of, who would wish to play a secondary role to Luka. You should be looking at superstar veterans at the veteran minimum - the only thing that would work in the current state of play. And I am actually not trying to be nasty here, just objective.


If max.player plays like KP then they for sure won't. Change him with Gobert and Richardson with Seth and they for sure could.


KP and Gobert are polar opposites. Hard to compare. The only player on the Mavs remotely comparable to him is Boban. And nobody knows how Carlisle would utilize Gobert. And I think that Snyder has done an excellent job for Jazz. I have kinda lost trust in Carlisle in the course of this season and POs. Curry and Richardson's situation is a no-brainer. A horrible trade when the result is that you even cannot play JR during the POs. And I also think that letting Wright go was a mistake.


I just wanted to say that having second star is not necessarily to build contending team around Luka. You just need to surround him with defenders and shooters. KP was very good fit till the moment he stopped defending. We all know that Luka is not good defender, he needs wing defenders and rim protector to play with him.

Look at Luka's playoffs numbers, 57 eFG% might not look phenomenal, until you look at his shoots. Only 9% of 2-pointers assisted and only 6% of 3-pointers assisted. Shooting 3 points pull-ups and step-backs 41%, this is Steph's territory. This are incredible numbers. KP on the other hand has had 53 eFG%, 92% of 2-pointers assisted and 100% of 3s assisted, shooting only 30% for 3, averaging 22.5 points less.

KP might be misused, but no one sane would advocate that he should score more than Luka. Luka playing like that open shots for others too. THJ and DFS main beneficiaries. KP could have been too, if he would be able to set good screens and roll or shoot higher %. Expecting that Mavs give KP 20+ shots with his efficiency and skills is totally unrealistic. On the other hand, if KP starts playing good D again, he will for sure have opportunity to score around 20 points. I believe blaming Luka and RC is wrong, KP is just not playing good enough at the moment. And he will have to understand that Mavs need his D much more than his offense.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#211 » by MrOrange » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:37 pm

Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
If max.player plays like KP then they for sure won't. Change him with Gobert and Richardson with Seth and they for sure could.


KP and Gobert are polar opposites. Hard to compare. The only player on the Mavs remotely comparable to him is Boban. And nobody knows how Carlisle would utilize Gobert. And I think that Snyder has done an excellent job for Jazz. I have kinda lost trust in Carlisle in the course of this season and POs. Curry and Richardson's situation is a no-brainer. A horrible trade when the result is that you even cannot play JR during the POs. And I also think that letting Wright go was a mistake.


I just wanted to say that having second star is not necessarily to build contending team around Luka. You just need to surround him with defenders and shooters. KP was very good fit till the moment he stopped defending. We all know that Luka is not good defender, he needs wing defenders and rim protector to play with him.

Look at Luka's playoffs numbers, 57 eFG% might not look phenomenal, until you look at his shoots. Only 9% of 2-pointers assisted and only 6% of 3-pointers assisted. Shooting 3 points pull-ups and step-backs 41%, this is Steph's territory. This are incredible numbers. KP on the other hand has had 53 eFG%, 92% of 2-pointers assisted and 100% of 3s assisted, shooting only 30% for 3, averaging 22.5 points less.

KP might be misused, but no one sane would advocate that he should score more than Luka. Luka playing like that open shots for others too. THJ and DFS main beneficiaries. KP could have been too, if he would be able to set good screens and roll or shoot higher %. Expecting that Mavs give KP 20+ shots with his efficiency and skills is totally unrealistic. On the other hand, if KP starts playing good D again, he will for sure have opportunity to score around 20 points. I believe blaming Luka and RC is wrong, KP is just not playing good enough at the moment. And he will have to understand that Mavs need his D much more than his offense.

I am generally not a fan of blaming anyone and, goodness gracious, I never said that KP is better than Luka or should score more than him. I am just sad to see the venom, including the media, that was out there during the series and after. I will repeat what I said earlier: season 3 will show it properly whether it all works or not. I also absolutely understand the situation KP is coming from. I have torn my ACL twice (and meniscus with it the 2nd time, it comes as a package): the first time falling from a skateboard and the second on the basketball court. After the 2nd tear, my surgeon told me: C'mon man don't pretend that you will be an athlete anymore. You will walk and run alright, but most likely get arthritis during old age :) It has not happened yet, but I also have avoided any contact sports since then.
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Re: Playoffs 20/21 - G7 - Mavs @ Clippers (Sund, 3:30PM EST) 

Post#212 » by Bob8 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:17 pm

MrOrange wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
MrOrange wrote:
KP and Gobert are polar opposites. Hard to compare. The only player on the Mavs remotely comparable to him is Boban. And nobody knows how Carlisle would utilize Gobert. And I think that Snyder has done an excellent job for Jazz. I have kinda lost trust in Carlisle in the course of this season and POs. Curry and Richardson's situation is a no-brainer. A horrible trade when the result is that you even cannot play JR during the POs. And I also think that letting Wright go was a mistake.


I just wanted to say that having second star is not necessarily to build contending team around Luka. You just need to surround him with defenders and shooters. KP was very good fit till the moment he stopped defending. We all know that Luka is not good defender, he needs wing defenders and rim protector to play with him.

Look at Luka's playoffs numbers, 57 eFG% might not look phenomenal, until you look at his shoots. Only 9% of 2-pointers assisted and only 6% of 3-pointers assisted. Shooting 3 points pull-ups and step-backs 41%, this is Steph's territory. This are incredible numbers. KP on the other hand has had 53 eFG%, 92% of 2-pointers assisted and 100% of 3s assisted, shooting only 30% for 3, averaging 22.5 points less.

KP might be misused, but no one sane would advocate that he should score more than Luka. Luka playing like that open shots for others too. THJ and DFS main beneficiaries. KP could have been too, if he would be able to set good screens and roll or shoot higher %. Expecting that Mavs give KP 20+ shots with his efficiency and skills is totally unrealistic. On the other hand, if KP starts playing good D again, he will for sure have opportunity to score around 20 points. I believe blaming Luka and RC is wrong, KP is just not playing good enough at the moment. And he will have to understand that Mavs need his D much more than his offense.

I am generally not a fan of blaming anyone and, goodness gracious, I never said that KP is better than Luka or should score more than him. I am just sad to see the venom, including the media, that was out there during the series and after. I will repeat what I said earlier: season 3 will show it properly whether it all works or not. I also absolutely understand the situation KP is coming from. I have torn my ACL twice (and meniscus with it the 2nd time, it comes as a package): the first time falling from a skateboard and the second on the basketball court. After the 2nd tear, my surgeon told me: C'mon man don't pretend that you will be an athlete anymore. You will walk and run alright, but most likely get arthritis during old age :) It has not happened yet, but I also have avoided any contact sports since then.


Sorry to hear that. Injuries are really the worst enemy of sportsman.

It's really difficult to be in KP's skin nowadays. On the other hand, he's very well paid so I guess it comes in the package.

Management will need to take difficult decision, whatever they do. But again, they are very well paid to make it.

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