Mavs Offseason - 21/22 - what do we do from here?

[dirkforpres]

The Mavs couldn't turn Jordan into a shooter beyond 6 feet or get him to defend a wing on the perimeter. Three coaches have not been able to get Simmons to shoot an outside shot.

Fultz could stick in Orlando because he's the dominant guard in a back-court. Simmons wouldn't be that here, and he's not a shooting guard.

You can't stick Simmons in the Mavs lineup next to Luca and expect him to do anything with the ball except pass it back to Luca.

I don’t think you have to make Ben a perimeter threat like Curry or anything, but it’s possible that he can at least mimic what Derozan provides on offense with the right coaching… As long as you can find a way to turn him into even a 70% free throw shooter, then the trade would be an overwhelming success for Dallas. I have way more faith in Simmons turning his career around than I do with Porzingis.

You need to take a further look.
Simmons fit perfectly with Doncic. Another big man in the perimeter with great defense and any skill.
Luka is too smart for this NBA contest. Give him any player and the player will be better.
Or do you prefer Richardson next to Luka?

Enviado desde mi Mi 10 mediante Tapatalk

I think I’m you must be confused… I’m actually arguing IN FAVOR of a Luka-Simmons pairing.

Doesn’t matter though.. Unless Simmons fires Rich Paul, Cuban isn’t trading for him anytime soon

[Mavrelous]

If the Mavs traded for a player with a 40 million dollar contract ending in 2025, and acquired a skill set didn't include shooting the ball at all...ever. I would literally stop watching the Mavericks. You guys are drunk

If it proved to be a failure, the GM wouldn't last a year. Cuban would literally be mocked into oblivion.

We just watched Luka go 1 on 5, and it's not because he's "selfish", let him go 1 on 5, but have good defense around him, we also watched RC go zone with 2 towers against the best 3pt shooting team in the league because the lane was so open for business, Clippers had parties in there, imagine a perimeter defender like Simmons.
Luka was overworked both in RS and PO because there's no reliable ball handler on the team.
It's all theoretical, I don't think the Sixers would trade Simmons for a deal around THJ/Brunson/5 years away 1st, but one could dream.

[JJP]

I don’t think you have to make Ben a perimeter threat like Curry or anything, but it’s possible that he can at least mimic what Derozan provides on offense with the right coaching… As long as you can find a way to turn him into even a 70% free throw shooter, then the trade would be an overwhelming success for Dallas. I have way more faith in Simmons turning his career around than I do with Porzingis.

In a playoff game, Simmons was afraid to dunk the ball. He can't be DeRozan even in his dreams. Three coaches have not been able to turn him into even a 8-10 foot shooter. If you want DeRozan, get him! He's available at a better salary

Simmons does not compliment Luca on offense. As I said, why would Luca pass him the ball.... ever? This is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA. You can't get him cheap. People!

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/ben-simmons-trade-destinations-knicks-blazers-damian-lillard-rockets-01f8cy152bxh

"In the aftermath of the Philadelphia 76ers' collapse against the Atlanta Hawks in Game 5 of their Eastern Conference Semifinals last night, the first question I asked myself is how much longer is Ben Simmons under contract for, because the guy is about as helpful to the team in the fourth quarter as a pile of rocks. The answer, I discovered, was staggering -- four years and over $140 million."

[dirkforpres]

I don’t think you have to make Ben a perimeter threat like Curry or anything, but it’s possible that he can at least mimic what Derozan provides on offense with the right coaching… As long as you can find a way to turn him into even a 70% free throw shooter, then the trade would be an overwhelming success for Dallas. I have way more faith in Simmons turning his career around than I do with Porzingis.

In a playoff game, Simmons was afraid to dunk the ball. He can't be Derozan even in his dreams. Three coaches have not been able to turn him to even a 8-10 foot shooter.

Simmons does not compliment Luca on offense. As I said, why would Luca pass him the ball.... ever? This is the 12th highest paid player in the NBA. You can't get him cheap. People!

The same reason why people would still trade for a player like Rudy Gobert or Draymond Green. Just because you aren't putting up 25 points a night doesn’t mean you’re a terrible basketball player. Simmons is still a fantastic defender, rebounder, and passer… I’m not going to deny he looked terrible in the playoffs, but so did Porzingis. If Mavs make a smart coaching hire, and do whatever they did with Deandre to turn him into a subpar FT shooter, then it’s a great trade… Mavs can pick up other shooters to surround with in free agency

Also the 76ers have only had 2 coaches in the Simmons era, one of them being one of the worst coaches of all time in Brett Brown

[arkuo]

If the Mavs traded for a player with a 40 million dollar contract ending in 2025, and acquired a skill set didn't include shooting the ball at all...ever. I would literally stop watching the Mavericks. You guys are drunk

If it proved to be a failure, the GM wouldn't last a year. Cuban would literally be mocked into oblivion.

I don't think you need all 5 guys to be able to shoot the 3. But this is just my opinion. Depends on who they get as coach. The Capela-Harden pick and roll was one of the toughest to guard back then and it worked.

Look at it at the flip side too. With 4 other players outside (including Luka), Ben would get a ton of space to work his man 1v1. Ben is a system player IMO. and it doesnt work with Philly because of the spacing. Embiid and Thybulle would all clog the lanes inside. With KP, Luka, DFS and your SG all standing outside, wouldn't it help Simmons too?

But again this hinges on the fact that Dallas has assets to go after him in a trade. If next best options for replacing THJ are Norman Powell or Gary Trent Jr, screw that. Gamble on Simmons. Luka is ready to win now. Powell or Trent Jr are solid players but I doubt they'd get you over the hump in a game 7 versus Kawhi and PG.

[Bnice5]

It's a gamble for sure. The pluses he brings are his All-NBA defense, plus he adds another facet to the Mavs offense which is running the one man fast break. That's one part Dallas has been missing for years because we just like half court sets so much ever since Dirk and now Luka setting plays at their own pace. Ben does a lot of things in transition both offense and defense. Ben's lack of shooting doesn't rock the Mavs' offense too much. Luka and KP will take most of the shots. Heck, even KP is complaining about lack of shots. Ben will feel right at home having no requirement to score in the 20s. Luka will score 45 by himself.

Now Im not saying we have assets to get him, but if he is offered to Dallas, you dont think twice. Take anyone outside of Luka or KP. There is literally no one in free agency this year or next year that will sign with the Mavs who is All-NBA 1st team defense. Absolutely no one. And for a conference that has Lebron, Kawhi, Booker, Mitchell, to have an elite defender is an absolute must to go deep into the playoffs. The DFS-Kleber tandem on defense allows Kawhi and PG career numbers. Dallas is not scaring anyone on D. So if you can get one of those, I think its well worth the risk.

Think James Worthy to Magic Johnson. Dallas has the Magic Johnson in Luka already.

You are probably right. With Luka and KP for scoring, and Simmons as the Dennis Rodman dirty work guy, it could be special. Simmons could get KP the ball in the right spots. Would be no letup in ball handling when Luka was off the court.

I wouldn't give up KP for him, as they would need that shooting and scoring in a Simmons lineup. But everything else other than Luka would be on the table. Still high risk and I would want to make sure the coach was completely on board with the idea and had a plan to make them all work together.

As with anything NBA related, I think any GM would evaluate the risk and see what other options there are. In terms of All NBA defense, there are none available. And the list of guys 6'10 that can help the Mavs arent impressive either. The risk becomes manageable when you see that Luka is 22, Simmons is 24 and KP is 25. It means as a GM, if it doesnt work, you have time to blow it up by their next contract.

With Simmons being 24, that's a lot of time to work with. A lot of mechanics are natural right now. A 6'10 guy who has handles like Luka and can run the break on his own from corner to corner? There's absolutely no one available right now with that combination of skill. Even setting aside the fact that he cant shoot threes. Like I said, he's the same height as Clint Capela, with way more skill.

There are a ton of valuable points in the last page and a half here...Frankly I throw anything not named Luka at Ben Simmons. Is he overpaid? yes... Can he shoot? No and probably never really will... But can he be Luka's pick and roll partner and defensive anchor in a highly switchable team defense approach? hell yes...

Defensive stud. Check... secondary ball handler/distributor? check... roll man? check... pass from the Luka trap? check... think of what happened when powell would be at the free throw line with his man 5 feet behind him trapping Luka... Powell could attack the rim, or pass to any of the 3 guys at the 3 point line... I trust Ben Simmons in that role way more than Powell... essentially he could destroy that scenario and force teams away from trapping Luka high to get the ball out of his hands...

I'm ok trading KP if needed because frankly we could find another guy to fill that type of role. I've already said on here i would be a proponent of bringing in guys like Bobby Portis, Nic Batum, etc. to play the 5... Could you imagine a line up of

Nic Batum (proved he can guard the paint from Rudy Gobert and KP and is an easily attainable Free agent)
Kleber (help side D and play 5 in pinch)
Ben Simmons (KP and some, probably have to be a 3 team trade here... (KP to Oklahoma, Simmons to Dallas, Kemba, Brunson, DFS+ to 76s)
Luka
Norman Powell? THJ? Danny Green? Lonzo Ball? Reggie Jackson? (SG in the 15-20M/year range)

Bench (improve this with any remaining free agent money on guys that can improve over time...

Bobby Portis / WCS
Otto Porter JR / Tyler Bey (learn how to shoot a 3 while he grows up)
Josh Green (learn to shoot 3)
Frank Ntilikina (learn to shoot 3)/ Nate Hinton
Tyrell Terry (covered on D with good flexible defensive team)

Now do i think it will happen that we could turn KP, Brunson, and DFS into Ben Simmons and allow for a major transformation like this to happen overnight? no... I don't think we can

[JJP]

It's impossible for me to believe that anyone watched that game last night and thought, "Wow, I think I want that guy be a Dallas Maverick. A guy that demands the ball and can't shoot is perfect next to Luca!"

[arkuo]

It's all theoretical, I don't think the Sixers would trade Simmons for a deal around THJ/Brunson/5 years away 1st, but one could dream.

Theoretically yes. And Morey is smart enough to send him out West too. Sending him to a contender in the East would defeat the purpose of improving his team but making his conference rivals stronger too.

For salaries to match, I think the Mavs have to add Kleber to that mix. Kleber should help spread the floor for Embiid to work inside.

Embiid getting triple teamed is the direct result of having Simmons and Thybulle in there, making spacing difficult. Simmons and Thybulle cant shoot threes so defenders can stick and rotate on Embiid easier.

Now imagine having Embiid inside, but flanked by Kleber, THJ, Seth Curry and Tobias Harris all outside and capable of shooting 3s. It immediately changes the dynamic. The defense cant gamble on leaving those guys open. Embiid now has space to work with. Theoretically.

[JD45]

If the Mavs traded for a player with a 40 million dollar contract ending in 2025, and acquired a skill set didn't include shooting the ball at all...ever. I would literally stop watching the Mavericks. You guys are drunk

If it proved to be a failure, the GM wouldn't last a year. Cuban would literally be mocked into oblivion.

Yeah, this would be a high stakes gamble. Big risk. I don't think Carlisle could make it work. Don Nelson probably could, but he is definitely not coming back. Avery Johnson couldn't do it.

[arkuo]

It's impossible for me to believe that anyone watched that game last night and thought, "Wow, I think I want that guy be a Dallas Maverick. A guy that demands the ball and can't shoot is perfect next to Luca!"

You cant base it off last night. Anyone trading for Simmons now will be for perceived value. You gamble on what you can do with him moving forward than what he has done during his last game. I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

Its beats having than Cuban spending one year deals on vets until he hits the next Dwight Howard IMO. If Dallas signs Devin Harris again just to fill a roster spot and sell Plan Powder again, Cuban is gonna hear from the media and the fans, for sure.

[JJP]

It's impossible for me to believe that anyone watched that game last night and thought, "Wow, I think I want that guy be a Dallas Maverick. A guy that demands the ball and can't shoot is perfect next to Luca!"

You cant base it off last night. Anyone trading for Simmons now will be for perceived value. You gamble on what you can do with him moving forward than what he has done during his last game. I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

Its beats having than Cuban spending one year deals on vets until he hits the next Dwight Howard IMO. If Dallas signs Devin Harris again just to fill a roster spot and sell Plan Powder again, Cuban is gonna hear from the media and the fans, for sure.

You're setting you sights on one of the most expensive players in the NBA and hoping he changes... a lot. He was in a playoff game, struggled with free throws and was afraid to shoot. Defenses backed off him HOPING he would shoot.

So people here think that's a good business decision? A good basketball decision?

[dirkforpres]

It's impossible for me to believe that anyone watched that game last night and thought, "Wow, I think I want that guy be a Dallas Maverick. A guy that demands the ball and can't shoot is perfect next to Luca!"

A first team all defense 24 year old who is a nightly triple double threat, but had a terrible 3 week stretch. There’s a reason why 6 months ago he was the highlight of a potential James Harden trade. If the Mavs truly have faith in their development team and coaching staff going forward, then a Simmons trade shouldn’t be questioned too much. There’s no denying the potential

[arkuo]

So people here think that's a good business decision? A good basketball decision?

Good basketball decision? Hell yes!

You turn THJ Brunson and Kleber into Ben Simmons? Hell yes! Because prior to Philly losing last night, THJ couldnt get you barely anything of more value.

if you can consolidate those salaries and turn them into something, I say go for it. Luka is ready to win now. Not 4 years from now, but now.

Kawhi would score 50 on THJ, Brunson or Kleber. On any single game. Would he get those numbers with Simmons on him? That alone is worth the gamble. There is a reason why the Clippers ducked the Lakers for the Mavs. That defense isnt scaring anyone. They're being mocked right there.

[JJP]

It's impossible for me to believe that anyone watched that game last night and thought, "Wow, I think I want that guy be a Dallas Maverick. A guy that demands the ball and can't shoot is perfect next to Luca!"

A first team all defense 24 year old who is a nightly triple double threat, but had a terrible 3 week stretch. There’s a reason why 6 months ago he was the highlight of a potential James Harden trade. If the Mavs truly have faith in their development team and coaching staff going forward, then a Simmons trade shouldn’t be questioned too much. There’s no denying the potential

I would at least understand this thinking if you we're getting a bargain - but the opposite is true. He's broken right now, and one of the most expensive players in the NBA.

[arkuo]

one of the most expensive players in the NBA.

I think if a team is planning to go for a deep playoff run, there is a price to enter.

Any of the 4 teams in the conference finals right now are way over the cap. You gotta spend money on players to win. We cant keep rolling one one year deals every year until Cuban hits the jackpot on Giannis.

[JJP]

one of the most expensive players in the NBA.

I think if a team is planning to go for a deep playoff run, there is a price to enter.

Any of the 4 teams in the conference finals right now are way over the cap. You gotta spend money on players to win. We cant keep rolling one one year deals every year until Cuban hits the jackpot on Giannis.

Win? Philly couldn't win even though they clearly had a top 5 player in Embid. You're just hoping, and you're willing to spend on a hope.

I'm all for going over the cap, but I'd like something that looks more promising than a reclamation project.

[Bnice5]

one of the most expensive players in the NBA.

I think if a team is planning to go for a deep playoff run, there is a price to enter.

Any of the 4 teams in the conference finals right now are way over the cap. You gotta spend money on players to win. We cant keep rolling one one year deals every year until Cuban hits the jackpot on Giannis.

Win? Philly couldn't win even though they clearly had a top 5 player in Embid. You're just hoping, and you're willing to spend on a hope.

I'm all for going over the cap, but I'd like something that looks more promising than a reclamation project.

Philly has an extremely poor fitting top 5 player in Embid... there skillsets don't work together at all and the entire league has been saying that for years... it is why they will never get out of the playoffs... not because the 2 players don't have strong skillsets, its because their skills don't align. In fact, they are pulling Embid out of the paint when they should be letting him dominate in there...

Both Embid and Simmons need 4 other guys on the team that can effectively space the floor... they just don't work together... if Simmons comes here, he gets to be the lone paint disruptor... as arkuo points out he becomes our giannis lite... let him get the ball 1 on 1 to face up defenders from 10 ft out and he will dominate the paint... let him be a pick and roll partner for Luka and Luka feed him 5-10 layups/dunks a night... Let him dominate on D...

He provides Dallas exactly what they don't have... the problem though is Dallas can't provide what Philly needs in a guard that can stir the offense... I think a third team would need to be involved and i think KP would have to go out with at least Brunson... But i do that all day.

[arkuo]

one of the most expensive players in the NBA.

I think if a team is planning to go for a deep playoff run, there is a price to enter.

Any of the 4 teams in the conference finals right now are way over the cap. You gotta spend money on players to win. We cant keep rolling one one year deals every year until Cuban hits the jackpot on Giannis.

Win? Philly couldn't win even though they clearly had a top 5 player in Embid. You're just hoping, and you're willing to spend on a hope.

I'm all for going over the cap, but I'd like something that looks more promising than a reclamation project.

We can agree to disagree here. We just view things differently.

But the situation is similar to Bam Adebayo. The Heat got swept 0-4 because Adebayo has zero offensive skills yet is paid the max. Do we see Pat Riley in a rush trying to trade him? Im sure Morey is taking his time in real life too. So when these players come on to the trade market, which they often dont, you take your shot.

I'd hold out money for the Kawhis or the KDs of the league to join Luka too. But I understand none of those are happening in our lifetimes to be honest. No established American all star is sleeping in picket lines trying to join Dallas in the summer. It just not happening. Luka's realistic best case scenario is to partner KP with Richaun Holmes and I do not think that will get things done in 7 game series against PHX, UTA, LAL, LAC, DEN and Porland to a certain extent (depends on how they improve this summer). That Luka-THJ backcourt scrambling and chasing Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Kawhi Leonard or Lebron? That's gonna be brutal.

[fuller4379]

Ben Simmons can’t even dunk against Trae Young. Maybe he thought it was Hakeem standing in front of him.

Read on Twitter

[arkuo]

Ben Simmons can’t even dunk against Trae Young. Maybe he thought it was Hakeem standing in front of him.

Read on Twitter

I wouldn't look into the Philly-ATL series. Simmons checked out completely. Its not a good barometer and not indicative of his skills and what he can do for a defense starved Dallas team for the coming years.

If teams and GMs based their views on how Rondo checked out in Dallas, he wouldn't be sought after by upper tier playoff teams now. if teams based their views on how Lebron deferred offensive possessions in the 2011 finals and was visibly seen avoiding the ball, you wouldn't get a single GM not wanting Lebron today. Im sure you get what I mean.

Ben's defense is elite. You can ask him to guard Lebron today, Lilard tomorrow and Kawhi the week after. There's not a lot players around the league you can ask that from. And certainly no one from the Mavs. That alone is worth the price of admission.

Forget the lack of 3 point shots, playing with Luka, you won't get many shot attempts either. Luka scores in the 40s. Even KP who is a very capable shooter is complaining about his lack of touches. I think if Ben were to come to Dallas, shooting will be far from an actual requirement. Defending the opposing team's star player, night in night out will though.

It's perceived value. If teams are paying the max for Bam Adebayo, Rudy Gobert and freakin Jonathan Isaac who plays 25 games per year, yet are far less skilled that Simmons is, you can bet that the market for paying Ben Simmons the max is still there.