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Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next?

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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#141 » by JJP » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:08 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
leolozon wrote:What about a man who beats up his wife? Does he have problem with his emotions?

What about a 40yo family man who still drives drunk and smashes his car into a pole?

What about a man going behind his boss's back when things don't go his way?


Ask Dirk. He's the one who recommended Kidd.

Also, you ever watched an NFL game? Don't come at me with this moral superiority Liberal ****. There isn't a professional sports team in the world that doesn't have some stain on their record. I don't want to hear it.



Anyone thinks we have a problem should have to live in Portland with the Billings hiring. Kidd's incident pales in comparison. Players have checkered pasts as well. Was KP's investigation finally completed?

What both new coaches have in common is that they were in the distant past, and many of the details remain out of sight to the public. Leolozon, you use present tense verbs like "beats" and infer that Kidd still drives drunk. Is that a fact you can point to recently?

There may be reasons to dislike Kidd, but I'm not sure castigating him for something that happened years ago makes good sense given the nature of professional sports.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#142 » by leolozon » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:10 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
leolozon wrote:What about a man who beats up his wife? Does he have problem with his emotions?

What about a 40yo family man who still drives drunk and smashes his car into a pole?

What about a man going behind his boss's back when things don't go his way?


Ask Dirk. He's the one who recommended Kidd.

Also, you ever watched an NFL game? Don't come at me with this moral superiority Liberal ****. There isn't a professional sports team in the world that doesn't have some stain on their record. I don't want to hear it.


I don't personally watch the NFL, no.

Not sure what being liberal as to do with drunk driving, violence and acting like an a**hole at your job...
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#143 » by leolozon » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:14 pm

JJP wrote:
DJ_3_Ball wrote:
leolozon wrote:What about a man who beats up his wife? Does he have problem with his emotions?

What about a 40yo family man who still drives drunk and smashes his car into a pole?

What about a man going behind his boss's back when things don't go his way?


Ask Dirk. He's the one who recommended Kidd.

Also, you ever watched an NFL game? Don't come at me with this moral superiority Liberal ****. There isn't a professional sports team in the world that doesn't have some stain on their record. I don't want to hear it.



Anyone thinks we have a problem should have to live in Portland with the Billings hiring. Kidd's incident pales in comparison. Players have checkered pasts as well. Was KP's investigation finally completed?

What both new coaches have in common is that they were in the distant past, and many of the details remain out of sight to the public. Leolozon, you use present tense verbs like "beats" and infer that Kidd still drives drunk. Is that a fact you can point to recently?

There may be reasons to dislike Kidd, but I'm not sure castigating him for something that happened years ago makes good sense given the nature of professional sports.


I do think that Kidd is a low character individual and he showed it many times in different ways. I used the present tense because it was the tense used in the post. I just found it funny that RC was getting disparaged because he screams at inanimate objects when Kidd was just hired. I do agree that RC seems to have anger issues.

I can't get myself to root for Kidd, so I'll have to root for the team despite Kidd being there, which kind of sucks.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#144 » by JJP » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:28 pm

Well I rooted for Carlisle and now it appears he was a little angrier than I thought. I don't know. Winning and losing has a way changing our perceptions. It's probably better I don't come with any preconceived baggage and just let it play out.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#145 » by Dirk » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:56 pm

I was surprised with the way Carlisle went about this.

He could have been classy. Written a nice statement. And moved on. We'd all understand, accept it and some celebrate it. Instead, the announcement is done via a screenshot from the notes app, posted by a twitter account. Frankly, I found that ridiculous.

As if that wasn't enough, then for some reason, he felt it'd be appropriate to chime in on who the Mavs should hire. And again, lacking class, he doesn't suggest anyone from within the organization... but some from from the outside.

The Kidd choice seems very dubious from a basketball perspective. He was and is a butt joke. We're basically relying on the fact that he's learned and grown in his time as an assistant.

His personal life, only becomes somewhat relevant to me because of what went on with the Mavs --- sexual harassment and misconduct not too long ago --- and Cuban going on tv and whatnot.

MARK CUBAN: First, just an apology to the women involved. The women that in a couple cases were assaulted and not just to them, but their families, because this is not something that just is an incident and then it's over -- it stays with people, it stays with families, and I'm just sorry I didn't see it. I'm just sorry I didn't recognize it. And I just hope that out of this, you know, we'll be better, and we can avoid it, and we can help make everybody just smarter about the whole thing.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24735180/transcript-comments-dallas-mavericks-owner-mark-cuban-nba-probe-mavericks-sexual-harassment-allegations

You don't have to lean one way or the other to just realise that it's awkward for sure. And it's natural that it's brought up.

Personally, I don't care about Kidd's personal life and personal history.

Mark Cuban has been very disappointing the last few years and he simply doesn't change. Talks too much. Doesn't know when to shut up and the decisions have been all over the place. "He is what he is".

Just hope Nico is an inspired choice and Kidd ends up doing a good job.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#146 » by JD45 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:02 pm

leolozon wrote:
JD45 wrote:
DJ_3_Ball wrote:Reportedly Jason Kidd wanted to join the Mavs coaching staff as an assistant after he was let go by Milwaukee. Reports say Carlisle said no. Apparently he didn't feel comfortable with Kidd on his staff because he felt Kidd might try to backstab him (which Kidd has a reputation for doing). Apparently Carlisle also is easily feels threatened.

With regards to Carlisle's peculiar comments about who the Mavs should hire after he stepped down, apparently Carlisle's relationship had been deteriorating with Luka and Jamahl Mosley's close relationship with Luka made Carlisle feel threatened or he just felt it was a betrayal of some sort. This explains why Carlisle threw shade on Mosley on his way out.

So for all of the Carlisle apologists on this forum who think Cuban is the jerk and Carlisle is some rocket scientist, who discount player relationships & think the NBA is still run like it was in the 1980s, Carlisle is a very insecure person by all reports. Very petty and a certified horse's ass. I'm glad he's gone. I haven't liked Carlisle since about 2014. He overstayed his welcome. And even if none of that is true... if just the part about having a deteriorating relationship with Luka is true, then he needed to go.


Any grown man who is yelling at inanimate objects has problems with his emotions. If that was his rage outlet to keep from raging at people, then he could at least get credit for effort. But apparently his rage was directed at people as well. Lack of emotional control is not the same as being a "hardass" or disciplinarian. That uncontrolled emotion is lack of discipline. A controlled coach might use yelling or anger as a motivational tool, but thats a lot different from it just being uncontrolled. I can't believe he lasted this long with that behavior.


What about a man who beats up his wife? Does he have problem with his emotions?

What about a 40yo family man who still drives drunk and smashes his car into a pole?

What about a man going behind his boss's back when things don't go his way?


All reason's I didn't want Kidd to be coach either. That and showing no signs of actual competence at coaching.

Being glad that Carlisle is gone is not the same as being glad Kidd is the new coach.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#147 » by Mr B » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:17 pm

leolozon wrote:
JD45 wrote:
DJ_3_Ball wrote:Reportedly Jason Kidd wanted to join the Mavs coaching staff as an assistant after he was let go by Milwaukee. Reports say Carlisle said no. Apparently he didn't feel comfortable with Kidd on his staff because he felt Kidd might try to backstab him (which Kidd has a reputation for doing). Apparently Carlisle also is easily feels threatened.

With regards to Carlisle's peculiar comments about who the Mavs should hire after he stepped down, apparently Carlisle's relationship had been deteriorating with Luka and Jamahl Mosley's close relationship with Luka made Carlisle feel threatened or he just felt it was a betrayal of some sort. This explains why Carlisle threw shade on Mosley on his way out.

So for all of the Carlisle apologists on this forum who think Cuban is the jerk and Carlisle is some rocket scientist, who discount player relationships & think the NBA is still run like it was in the 1980s, Carlisle is a very insecure person by all reports. Very petty and a certified horse's ass. I'm glad he's gone. I haven't liked Carlisle since about 2014. He overstayed his welcome. And even if none of that is true... if just the part about having a deteriorating relationship with Luka is true, then he needed to go.


Any grown man who is yelling at inanimate objects has problems with his emotions. If that was his rage outlet to keep from raging at people, then he could at least get credit for effort. But apparently his rage was directed at people as well. Lack of emotional control is not the same as being a "hardass" or disciplinarian. That uncontrolled emotion is lack of discipline. A controlled coach might use yelling or anger as a motivational tool, but thats a lot different from it just being uncontrolled. I can't believe he lasted this long with that behavior.


What about a man who beats up his wife? Does he have problem with his emotions?

What about a 40yo family man who still drives drunk and smashes his car into a pole?

What about a man going behind his boss's back when things don't go his way?

I hope you’re bringing that same energy to the board of a team that just hire a guy who’s in to gang rape.


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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#148 » by JJP » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:26 pm

While I was not a fan of Kidd for coach, there is some perspective needed.

The domestic abuse issue happened in 2001 - twenty years ago. He went to anger management for 6 months, completed it, and then continued with it after completion. An ugly divorce where accusations flew occurred in 2007, but it was just that - an ugly divorce. He had his DUI in 2012, and then nothing after that. He's been married now for 10 years and has two children... and nothing noteworthy about drinking or abuse.

His Lakers stint is largely considered successful, with several Laker players saying he was instrumental in that run. Player and coaches respect him and want him on their teams. So his record is largely a net plus for the last decade - both personally and professionally.

There are reasons he shouldn't have been hired over other coaches - and Dirk points out one glaring issue about the incongruency of the Mavs sexual abuse problems in a post above - but there are reasons to hire (far more than there were for Chauncy Billups). So this hire, while not my favorite, is at least understandable.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#149 » by DJ_3_Ball » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:32 pm

leolozon wrote:I don't personally watch the NFL, no.

Not sure what being liberal as to do with drunk driving, violence and acting like an a**hole at your job...


My bad. I overreacted a little bit. I'm just tired of that Cancel Culture garbage.

Listen, Kidd made some very serious mistakes in his past & he's reportedly trouble on a coaching staff. On the other hand, LeBron, Dirk, Giannis, Dame, and dozens of other future Hall of Famers love him. So that has to count for something too.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#150 » by daoneandonly » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:41 pm

DJ_3_Ball wrote:
leolozon wrote:I don't personally watch the NFL, no.

Not sure what being liberal as to do with drunk driving, violence and acting like an a**hole at your job...


My bad. I overreacted a little bit. I'm just tired of that Cancel Culture garbage.

Listen, Kidd made some very serious mistakes in his past & he's reportedly trouble on a coaching staff. On the other hand, LeBron, Dirk, Giannis, Dame, and dozens of other future Hall of Famers love him. So that has to count for something too.


Yeah cancel culture is toxic is moronic

Yeah Im not too happy about Kidd either, thought Mosley deserved a chance. Though as someone pointed out, if his main responsibility was coaching the defense, well then that really doesnt speak well for the job he did given how bad the Mavs D was.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#151 » by Mr B » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:23 pm

More evidence of Carlisle being a prick. Doesn’t seem right that the head of the coaches union would try to ruin the career of a young up and coming coach.

Read on Twitter
?s=21


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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#152 » by JJP » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:46 pm

In retrospect, it now looks like their was a lot of inter-office politics... almost to the point that it was out of hand.

These kinds of things are a cancer, so I'm glad it's done.... but how Cuban misses these red flags is concerning.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#153 » by arkuo » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:55 pm

JJP wrote:but how Cuban misses these red flags is concerning.



He's in Holywood. He's not in Dallas 100% of the time.

Which also explains the lack of accountability on Donnie's end, just sits in his office and does nothing. The warden is always out, the inmates run the yard.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#154 » by kazyv » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:33 am

Dirk wrote:I was surprised with the way Carlisle went about this.

He could have been classy. Written a nice statement. And moved on. We'd all understand, accept it and some celebrate it. Instead, the announcement is done via a screenshot from the notes app, posted by a twitter account. Frankly, I found that ridiculous.

As if that wasn't enough, then for some reason, he felt it'd be appropriate to chime in on who the Mavs should hire. And again, lacking class, he doesn't suggest anyone from within the organization... but some from from the outside.


huh, since when is carlisle running the espn and/or woj account? espn asked him for a nice statement, he gave one and the woj **** posted some notes screenshot on twitter. how is that on carlisle?

and if that wasn't enough, how classy would it be to suggest some dude who's out of the organisation the next day instead of the guy that gets hired just as he recommended him? quite frankly, that just tells us he was playing nice with cuban
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#155 » by Darren » Thu Jul 1, 2021 1:33 pm

If Kidd can develop rookies such as Bey, Green, Hinton and Terry, it's already fine. Doncic can be the real head coach on court. Finley can be the scout on draft matter and handle some of the manager duty. The new GM can be prime recruiter without doing much actual work. If the Mavs end up with Kawhi, these moves are awsome. If the Mavs end up with Oubre, Hardaway or DeRozan, things do not look good at all. I'd rather sign 1-year FA and wait for Dame. The only moves I could think of is KP for Hield deal. I am more keen on Batum, Rose and so on.

I think Hardaway truely want to head to Miami. The Mavs has to overpay to retain TH. Then, the Mavs are better off staying away from that.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#156 » by Mr B » Thu Jul 1, 2021 3:44 pm

Darren wrote:If Kidd can develop rookies such as Bey, Green, Hinton and Terry, it's already fine. Doncic can be the real head coach on court. Finley can be the scout on draft matter and handle some of the manager duty. The new GM can be prime recruiter without doing much actual work. If the Mavs end up with Kawhi, these moves are awsome. If the Mavs end up with Oubre, Hardaway or DeRozan, things do not look good at all. I'd rather sign 1-year FA and wait for Dame. The only moves I could think of is KP for Hield deal. I am more keen on Batum, Rose and so on.

I think Hardaway truely want to head to Miami. The Mavs has to overpay to retain TH. Then, the Mavs are better off staying away from that.

Here we go. Sign Kawhi, sign and trade THJ for Duncan Robinson, trade for Myles Turner. Rebuild around Luka, Kawhi, Robinson, Turner. Easy peezy, lemon squeezy

Read on Twitter
?s=21


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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#157 » by arkuo » Thu Jul 1, 2021 5:18 pm

Mr B wrote:
Darren wrote:If Kidd can develop rookies such as Bey, Green, Hinton and Terry, it's already fine. Doncic can be the real head coach on court. Finley can be the scout on draft matter and handle some of the manager duty. The new GM can be prime recruiter without doing much actual work. If the Mavs end up with Kawhi, these moves are awsome. If the Mavs end up with Oubre, Hardaway or DeRozan, things do not look good at all. I'd rather sign 1-year FA and wait for Dame. The only moves I could think of is KP for Hield deal. I am more keen on Batum, Rose and so on.

I think Hardaway truely want to head to Miami. The Mavs has to overpay to retain TH. Then, the Mavs are better off staying away from that.

Here we go. Sign Kawhi, sign and trade THJ for Duncan Robinson, trade for Myles Turner. Rebuild around Luka, Kawhi, Robinson, Turner. Easy peezy, lemon squeezy

Read on Twitter
?s=21


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One big selling point for Kawhi to sign with Dallas (IF he were to leave LA, I dont think its possible) is him "leading" a young team with 2 stars. Marketed that way at least.

But the biggest selling point in Kawhi coming over is Jason Kidd. Kidd strikes me as an enabler type of coach. He'll party with him, allow him to sit out stretches of games in the season so he can be fresh for the playoffs. Kidd the type of coach to let these things slide, including Uncle Dennis being around. Uncle Dennis and Janis Porzingis in the stands together? This I gotta see. Carlisle would probably say no to that type of BS.

If Kidd can ask a player to bump into him to accidentally spill his drink to create a fake timeout, with all those cameras on national TV? Imagine what he can negotiate behind closed doors. He's an enabler, not necessarily a good thing, but if he lands you Kawhi, together with Nico Harrison, then they're worth every penny.
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#158 » by BlueSan » Thu Jul 1, 2021 8:17 pm

Kawhi aint coming to Dallas.... chill

As for Rick. I never liked the guy, but this recent s**** is beyond pathetic. Even if in some reality it was all accidental, by chance, taken out of context stuff, he should definitely know better.
Dissing Moseley, going out of his way to mention kid, not mentioning Luka and so on and on. Pathetic and childish


If I can mention Cuban at the same time. Let me just make this comparison

"He is what he is...." may look stupid at first and it is, cause it is not cool no matter what.

But now let us take a look at Porzingis' famous statement during interviews.

"It is what it is...."

You think that is by chance? I do not... food for thoughts
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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#159 » by HMFFL » Thu Jul 1, 2021 9:08 pm

Kawhi will possibly need surgery this off-season. Say we sign him, how is Luka, and some of you going to react to him not playing every game? Load management needs to occur next season, maybe not as heavily as it was two seasons ago, but he cannot be expected to play 40 minutes every game.

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Re: Rick Carlisle Steps Down! What Next? 

Post#160 » by BlueSan » Thu Jul 1, 2021 11:15 pm

Actually, I think he can. I will explain.

This load management thing is a fairly recent thing in basketball or the NBA. It definitely has its reasons and some medical feedback. Naturally, a body that is fully rested and ready to go can perform better and has less risk of injury.
But on the other hand, decades now we have seen players play out entire seasons, having 40 + minutes, having the ball in their hands a lot, and especially if they were as young as Luka it is very doable.
It comes down to what on earth is happening with this sport when players sit out games to rest and whatnot. I personally am against it.
I am also against over 60 games per season as I think it lessens the value of each game and increases injury risks.

But even so till that changes, I am against artificially saving up players and protecting them from themselves or random factors that may cause injuries. It goes against everything I believed in and still believe in as a person that played sports and loves to watch sports, so I hope I don't see it done with Luka.

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