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How Much Would Goran Dragic Help?

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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#21 » by HairyGOATee » Mon Aug 9, 2021 9:57 pm

deb wrote:
JJP wrote:
deb wrote:The Raps will not buy Dragic out. Why should they? They will either keep him or get what they want in return. They will most definitely not give up draft picks for the privilege of buying Dragic out.


If the Raps bought out Dragic, it would essentially mean that the Raptors traded Lowry for Precious Achiuwa. :)


No, if they buy out Dragic, they give up Lowry and 19 million in cash (minus whatever Dragić decides to leave on the table) for Achiuwa. Which is worse than just renouncing Lowry and losing him for nothing as an FA.


Maybe Dragic decides to leave some money on the table so he can sign with Dallas. So it might not be $19 million. Kemba just left around $20 million on the table with his buyout.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#22 » by HairyGOATee » Mon Aug 9, 2021 9:58 pm

last I heard, the Mavs felt pretty good about the odds of Dragic getting bought out.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#23 » by KhalilS » Mon Aug 9, 2021 10:25 pm

Everyone is huffing and puffing on both sides, but in reality, Goran would most likely be cut at 12:01 AM past trade deadline, if not traded before.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#24 » by Mr B » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:32 am

HairyGOATee wrote:
deb wrote:
JJP wrote:
If the Raps bought out Dragic, it would essentially mean that the Raptors traded Lowry for Precious Achiuwa. :)


No, if they buy out Dragic, they give up Lowry and 19 million in cash (minus whatever Dragić decides to leave on the table) for Achiuwa. Which is worse than just renouncing Lowry and losing him for nothing as an FA.


Maybe Dragic decides to leave some money on the table so he can sign with Dallas. So it might not be $19 million. Kemba just left around $20 million on the table with his buyout.

The Mavs have zero interest in paying Dragic $19M. They’ve made that pretty clear. The only way Dragic is playing in Dallas is if he get released and is being paid significantly less money. MAYBE they would trade for him at the deadline but they are definitely not trading for him with that full $19M being due.


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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#25 » by HairyGOATee » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:39 pm

Mr B wrote:
HairyGOATee wrote:
deb wrote:
No, if they buy out Dragic, they give up Lowry and 19 million in cash (minus whatever Dragić decides to leave on the table) for Achiuwa. Which is worse than just renouncing Lowry and losing him for nothing as an FA.


Maybe Dragic decides to leave some money on the table so he can sign with Dallas. So it might not be $19 million. Kemba just left around $20 million on the table with his buyout.

The Mavs have zero interest in paying Dragic $19M. They’ve made that pretty clear. The only way Dragic is playing in Dallas is if he get released and is being paid significantly less money. MAYBE they would trade for him at the deadline but they are definitely not trading for him with that full $19M being due.


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Yeah, that's why I said Dragic would leave money on the table in the event of a buyout. That's also how he'd be able to sign with the Mavs. He can't leave the money on the table if it's a trade, nor can he sign with the Mavs that way. He'd just get shipped to the team instead. But again, I was talking about a buyout and him signing for the vet min or something like that.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#26 » by Kurtz » Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:17 pm

arkuo wrote: Riley bamboozled Masai again into taking his contract the same way he was able to squeeze Bosh out of Toronto before. No point for Cuban to help Toronto.


Just wanna correct you a little bit on this.

In 2010, Bosh hit free agency and was not coming back to Toronto. So Toronto sign and traded him to Miami for two first-round picks + TPE. One of those first rounders turned out to be 4th overall. Under the circumstances, that trade turned out to be a win-win. Riley payed a steep price, but it was clearly worth it.

Similarly, Lowry was moving on this offseason. Masai sign and traded him for a good prospect, a 1st rounder, he was interested in last year. Again, likely a win-win, although future will tell who, if anyone, came out ahead.

Now, how much Masai values Dragic - I don't know, although clearly he's willing to move him. What I can tell you is that Masai doesn't waste assets and he likes playing hardball with other GMs and he won't simply buy Goran out. If Dallas is interested in Goran (and I think he'd be a good fit), I would speculate that he'd ask for Josh Green, who he apparently was interested in last year.

Would Dallas be willing to pay that price? No idea - depends on how much your new management likes Green, I guess.

ps: As far as selling 2nd rounders for a little bit of cash ...that won't happen either. Toronto is owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation and a few mil is rather trivial.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#27 » by KhalilS » Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:34 pm

Kurtz wrote:Now, how much Masai values Dragic - I don't know, although clearly he's willing to move him. What I can tell you is that Masai doesn't waste assets and he likes playing hardball with other GMs and he won't simply buy Goran out. If Dallas is interested in Goran (and I think he'd be a good fit), I would speculate that he'd ask for Josh Green, who he apparently was interested in last year.


I doubt the asked price is Josh Green, I think if Powell/Burke/Green were fine by TOR it would've already happened already.
The Birch signing makes me believe this trade is not happening, but who knows.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#28 » by Kurtz » Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:46 pm

KhalilS wrote:
Kurtz wrote:Now, how much Masai values Dragic - I don't know, although clearly he's willing to move him. What I can tell you is that Masai doesn't waste assets and he likes playing hardball with other GMs and he won't simply buy Goran out. If Dallas is interested in Goran (and I think he'd be a good fit), I would speculate that he'd ask for Josh Green, who he apparently was interested in last year.


I doubt the asked price is Josh Green, I think if Powell/Burke/Green were fine by TOR it would've already happened already.
The Birch signing makes me believe this trade is not happening, but who knows.


Fair enough - there was a rumour that Masai liked him last year, but Masai doesn't leak much so could have been bs. But Green does fit Masai's preferred profile - good measurables and defense...and the team is in no rush now so taking on a project would be fine.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#29 » by SOUNDCHASER » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:53 am

Terry has looked good in summer league so far and so I kind of doubt we even want Dragic now. With Terry showing signs of becoming a decent contributor I really see no reason to invest in Goran as a feel good move
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#30 » by Mr B » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:24 am

Kurtz wrote:
arkuo wrote: Riley bamboozled Masai again into taking his contract the same way he was able to squeeze Bosh out of Toronto before. No point for Cuban to help Toronto.


Just wanna correct you a little bit on this.

In 2010, Bosh hit free agency and was not coming back to Toronto. So Toronto sign and traded him to Miami for two first-round picks + TPE. One of those first rounders turned out to be 4th overall. Under the circumstances, that trade turned out to be a win-win. Riley payed a steep price, but it was clearly worth it.

Similarly, Lowry was moving on this offseason. Masai sign and traded him for a good prospect, a 1st rounder, he was interested in last year. Again, likely a win-win, although future will tell who, if anyone, came out ahead.

Now, how much Masai values Dragic - I don't know, although clearly he's willing to move him. What I can tell you is that Masai doesn't waste assets and he likes playing hardball with other GMs and he won't simply buy Goran out. If Dallas is interested in Goran (and I think he'd be a good fit), I would speculate that he'd ask for Josh Green, who he apparently was interested in last year.

Would Dallas be willing to pay that price? No idea - depends on how much your new management likes Green, I guess.

ps: As far as selling 2nd rounders for a little bit of cash ...that won't happen either. Toronto is owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation and a few mil is rather trivial.

That’s the rumor why Dallas doesn’t want to trade for Dragic. Along with not wanting to pay that $19M they don’t want to give up young prospects. They would like to get Dragic because he would be good in the locker room and his game fits next to Luka but he would be a luxury not a necessity. They don’t NEED Dragic so why give up prospects and then have to pay him $19M on top of that.


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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#31 » by deb » Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:48 am

Mr B wrote:
Spoiler:
Kurtz wrote:
arkuo wrote: Riley bamboozled Masai again into taking his contract the same way he was able to squeeze Bosh out of Toronto before. No point for Cuban to help Toronto.


Just wanna correct you a little bit on this.

In 2010, Bosh hit free agency and was not coming back to Toronto. So Toronto sign and traded him to Miami for two first-round picks + TPE. One of those first rounders turned out to be 4th overall. Under the circumstances, that trade turned out to be a win-win. Riley payed a steep price, but it was clearly worth it.

Similarly, Lowry was moving on this offseason. Masai sign and traded him for a good prospect, a 1st rounder, he was interested in last year. Again, likely a win-win, although future will tell who, if anyone, came out ahead.

Now, how much Masai values Dragic - I don't know, although clearly he's willing to move him. What I can tell you is that Masai doesn't waste assets and he likes playing hardball with other GMs and he won't simply buy Goran out. If Dallas is interested in Goran (and I think he'd be a good fit), I would speculate that he'd ask for Josh Green, who he apparently was interested in last year.

Would Dallas be willing to pay that price? No idea - depends on how much your new management likes Green, I guess.

ps: As far as selling 2nd rounders for a little bit of cash ...that won't happen either. Toronto is owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation and a few mil is rather trivial.

That’s the rumor why Dallas doesn’t want to trade for Dragic. Along with not wanting to pay that $19M they don’t want to give up young prospects. They would like to get Dragic because he would be good in the locker room and his game fits next to Luka but he would be a luxury not a necessity. They don’t NEED Dragic so why give up prospects and then have to pay him $19M on top of that.


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The 19 million is overstated imo. It's one year and the raps would have to take at least close to 15 million in salary back. Is there
really a big difference between paying Powell and Burke 14 million to play 25 minutes per game or paying Dragić 19 million to play 25 minutes per game? Plus it actually clears cap for 2022/23 season. If that difference is a deal breaker, Cuban's just being cheap. It's the sweeteners to the deal that have mavs balking imo.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#32 » by arkuo » Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:59 am

deb wrote:
The 19 million is overstated imo. It's one year and the raps would have to take at least close to 15 million in salary back. Is there
really a big difference between paying Powell and Burke 14 million to play 25 minutes per game or paying Dragić 19 million to play 25 minutes per game? Plus it actually clears cap for 2022/23 season. If that difference is a deal breaker, Cuban's just being cheap. It's the sweeteners to the deal that have mavs balking imo.



If it only took Powell and Burke, the deal would have been done by now. Masai is clearly wanting more assets back seeing how the Mavs are eager to make moves, he's raising the price because the demand is there and the supply of free agents are low. That's where Cuban checks out IMO. No use sending out more assets than that for a 1 year rental. Just go with the team as currently built and see what small tweaks can be done prior to the trade deadline. No use getting another Slovenian in just because a reunion looks cool and everybody can sing kumbaya. Nobody buys stocks when the prices are high. Same applies here.

Also, the 19M expiring that Dragic brings is cancelled out when Doncic's 207M deal kicks in next summer. No use for an expiring now. That train has left the station. All future deals will be MLE ones from here on out.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#33 » by deb » Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:13 am

arkuo wrote:
deb wrote:
The 19 million is overstated imo. It's one year and the raps would have to take at least close to 15 million in salary back. Is there
really a big difference between paying Powell and Burke 14 million to play 25 minutes per game or paying Dragić 19 million to play 25 minutes per game? Plus it actually clears cap for 2022/23 season. If that difference is a deal breaker, Cuban's just being cheap. It's the sweeteners to the deal that have mavs balking imo.



If it only took Powell and Burke, the deal would have been done by now. Masai is clearly wanting more assets back seeing how the Mavs are eager to make moves, he's raising the price because the demand is there and the supply of free agents are low. That's where Cuban checks out IMO. No use sending out more assets than that for a 1 year rental. Just go with the team as currently built and see what small tweaks can be done prior to the trade deadline. No use getting another Slovenian in just because a reunion looks cool and everybody can sing kumbaya. Nobody buys stocks when the prices are high. Same applies here.

Also, the 19M expiring that Dragic brings is cancelled out when Doncic's 207M deal kicks in next summer. No use for an expiring now. That train has left the station. All future deals will be MLE ones from here on out.


Agree, that's the point of my post. 19 million means nothing now. It's the additional assets raps would want that are the deal breaker.

However, an expiring contract still has value imo. It can be flipped at the trade deadline. Or Bird rights can be used for an S&T over the cap...
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#34 » by JJP » Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:18 am

What is the obsession with Green? He fits Masai's profile? Do we really think this alone is difference-maker in a trade?
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#35 » by arkuo » Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:22 am

JJP wrote:What is the obsession with Green? He fits Masai's profile? Do we really think this alone is difference-maker in a trade?


Everything has been speculation at this point. We don't know if Masai even wants Green or a 1st round pick.

Green's name was just floated by some Raptor fan on RealGM. And we don't know it's just a kid putting out names he happens to like for his fantasy team.

It also has to be noted that Masai was not even considered by Cuban as a possible GM candidate at all. Not an interview or anything. So there may be some hurt egos there. Every factor has to be considered with these deals. They're not robots. Things can get personal at times.

Cuban is just taking a stand now to wait it out. He's more of "I can afford to wait it out. Can your bosses do the same with Goran's 19M paycheck? Come back to me when they say they can." Cuban is an owner. Masai is an employee. Cuban handles his own money. Masai is responsible for someone else'. They're playing the chicken game right now. In most occassions, it's the billionaire that wins.
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#36 » by Mr B » Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:13 pm

deb wrote:
Mr B wrote:
Spoiler:
Kurtz wrote:
Just wanna correct you a little bit on this.

In 2010, Bosh hit free agency and was not coming back to Toronto. So Toronto sign and traded him to Miami for two first-round picks + TPE. One of those first rounders turned out to be 4th overall. Under the circumstances, that trade turned out to be a win-win. Riley payed a steep price, but it was clearly worth it.

Similarly, Lowry was moving on this offseason. Masai sign and traded him for a good prospect, a 1st rounder, he was interested in last year. Again, likely a win-win, although future will tell who, if anyone, came out ahead.

Now, how much Masai values Dragic - I don't know, although clearly he's willing to move him. What I can tell you is that Masai doesn't waste assets and he likes playing hardball with other GMs and he won't simply buy Goran out. If Dallas is interested in Goran (and I think he'd be a good fit), I would speculate that he'd ask for Josh Green, who he apparently was interested in last year.

Would Dallas be willing to pay that price? No idea - depends on how much your new management likes Green, I guess.

ps: As far as selling 2nd rounders for a little bit of cash ...that won't happen either. Toronto is owned by a multi-billion dollar corporation and a few mil is rather trivial.

That’s the rumor why Dallas doesn’t want to trade for Dragic. Along with not wanting to pay that $19M they don’t want to give up young prospects. They would like to get Dragic because he would be good in the locker room and his game fits next to Luka but he would be a luxury not a necessity. They don’t NEED Dragic so why give up prospects and then have to pay him $19M on top of that.


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The 19 million is overstated imo. It's one year and the raps would have to take at least close to 15 million in salary back. Is there
really a big difference between paying Powell and Burke 14 million to play 25 minutes per game or paying Dragić 19 million to play 25 minutes per game? Plus it actually clears cap for 2022/23 season. If that difference is a deal breaker, Cuban's just being cheap. It's the sweeteners to the deal that have mavs balking imo.

If Powell and Burke (together are about $15M) we’re the only two players on the table for the Mavs I believe they would pull the trigger. It would clear $4M off this years cap for the Raptors and like you said, clear space for the Mavs next season.

From the rumors that was the original proposed trade. At some point the trade changed though to Masai now wanting a FRP or Josh Green, neither of which the Mavs are willing to part with.

If this continues to the trade deadline I believe they will end up doing Powell/Burke for Dragic.


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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#37 » by Mr B » Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:18 pm

JJP wrote:What is the obsession with Green? He fits Masai's profile? Do we really think this alone is difference-maker in a trade?

Yes I actually do believe the lack of wanting to include Green or a FRP in the trade is what has stopped this from going through. Green has a lot of potential as a 3-D player. Is giving up a player than can be as good or better than DFS (and is at the beginning of his career) worth a 1 year rental on a player that could very well be playing his last year in the NBA?


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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#38 » by Mr B » Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:22 pm

arkuo wrote:
JJP wrote:What is the obsession with Green? He fits Masai's profile? Do we really think this alone is difference-maker in a trade?


Everything has been speculation at this point. We don't know if Masai even wants Green or a 1st round pick.

Green's name was just floated by some Raptor fan on RealGM. And we don't know it's just a kid putting out names he happens to like for his fantasy team.

It also has to be noted that Masai was not even considered by Cuban as a possible GM candidate at all. Not an interview or anything. So there may be some hurt egos there. Every factor has to be considered with these deals. They're not robots. Things can get personal at times.

Cuban is just taking a stand now to wait it out. He's more of "I can afford to wait it out. Can your bosses do the same with Goran's 19M paycheck? Come back to me when they say they can." Cuban is an owner. Masai is an employee. Cuban handles his own money. Masai is responsible for someone else'. They're playing the chicken game right now. In most occassions, it's the billionaire that wins.

I don’t think Masai ever had any interest in leaving Toronto. It’s likely Cuban already knew that. Why waist time courting a GM that is perfectly happy where he is and was about to get paid by that team. Nico has had a great reputation around the NBA for several years and was courted by several teams over the past few years to be their GM.


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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#39 » by JJP » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:09 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20
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Re: How Much Would Goran Dragic Help? 

Post#40 » by KhalilS » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:37 pm

JJP wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20


Possible, because Powell + WCS aren't enough, if it's true I think a 2nd rd pick or 2 will go to TOR.

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