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RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST)

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KhalilS
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#41 » by KhalilS » Mon Jan 3, 2022 1:35 pm

Archx wrote:Also, amazing pass to seal the game. This is something Brunson can't do yet... get entire defense to collaps on him. That's why i don't understand how people think Mavs play better without Luka or are better with Brunson. It can look good yes, but there is a reason why they win more games with Luka on the floor even if On/Off don't show it yet. One of the good examples is DFS who was again open entire night but was again missing so many open 3's.


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Poku slept on this one, he hasn't made any progress in his time in the league, lots of raw potential, even more catastrophic mistakes.
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#42 » by XTraderXL » Mon Jan 3, 2022 1:53 pm

Bob8 wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
Archx wrote:Also, amazing pass to seal the game. This is something Brunson can't do yet... get entire defense to collaps on him. That's why i don't understand how people think Mavs play better without Luka or are better with Brunson. It can look good yes, but there is a reason why they win more games with Luka on the floor even if On/Off don't show it yet. One of the good examples is DFS who was again open entire night but was again missing so many open 3's.


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Brunson usually doesnt let the game to be this close against bad teams so he doesnt even need some circus assists to clinch the game. With Luka on the court the Mavs cant seem to dominate even the bad teams. Something is up with him this season, his demeanor has been different this whole year. Its not just bad conditioning in my opinion.


You might be a bit exaggerating about Brunson. ;)

1st game after being out 3 weeks, with very limited training because of Covid, doesn't tell much about Luka too. He will need few weeks to show, what he's really capable of in this season.


Well, thats what all advanced stats show. But we all know what Luka can do when he is on top of his game, his ceiling is far higher than Brunsons. But so far this year its a simple fact that the Mavs would have a better record if they had a player like Brunson instead of Luka.

Its true that it was his first game after 3 weeks but he hasnt been playing much better than this before they sent him to fat camp either :lol:
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#43 » by Archx » Mon Jan 3, 2022 1:59 pm

XTraderXL wrote:
Archx wrote:Also, amazing pass to seal the game. This is something Brunson can't do yet... get entire defense to collaps on him. That's why i don't understand how people think Mavs play better without Luka or are better with Brunson. It can look good yes, but there is a reason why they win more games with Luka on the floor even if On/Off don't show it yet. One of the good examples is DFS who was again open entire night but was again missing so many open 3's.


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Of course they win more games with him playing but thats more because with him out, they dont have a back up since Brunson is the primary PG. Switch Luka for another "Brunson" off the bench and this team would have been at 0.650 this year. He has been a consistently negative player this year when he is on the court, Brunson a consistent plus. In fact it happened many times that Brunson was the one who had to lead his unit in comebacks after Luka with his unit played like crap. Brunson has been better than Luka as a starter as well but they were losing those games because they had nobody to come off the bench for him.

Besides, Brunson has played in every single Mavs win this year so your suggestion that Luka is "the" reason they win more games with him is false. Take Brunson out and only play Luka and the Mavs are sub .500 in that stretch easy. The fact is he has been bad this year, there is no way around it.

About Covid... I had it 2 weeks ago, was a mild flu for 2-3 days. Went to the gym 5 days after my symptoms were gone and didnt lose a step. No issues at all. And I could be Lukas father if I started really really early 8-)


I agree to certain degree but like any coach or player will say, stats/advance stats only paint half of the picture. You still need people on the floor to see how defense reacts and ultimately what is the outcome. So far, when Luka plays and with all the issues that he has this season, Mavs still do better in the win column. And this play i posted is one of the main reasons why he needs to play. If DFS made all his shots, Mavs would have won by a much larger difference.

Obviously if Luka was in better shape he could have attacked the rim more often, so he has to shoulder some blame on why this game was closer than it should have been.
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#44 » by XTraderXL » Mon Jan 3, 2022 2:31 pm

Archx wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
Archx wrote:Also, amazing pass to seal the game. This is something Brunson can't do yet... get entire defense to collaps on him. That's why i don't understand how people think Mavs play better without Luka or are better with Brunson. It can look good yes, but there is a reason why they win more games with Luka on the floor even if On/Off don't show it yet. One of the good examples is DFS who was again open entire night but was again missing so many open 3's.


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Of course they win more games with him playing but thats more because with him out, they dont have a back up since Brunson is the primary PG. Switch Luka for another "Brunson" off the bench and this team would have been at 0.650 this year. He has been a consistently negative player this year when he is on the court, Brunson a consistent plus. In fact it happened many times that Brunson was the one who had to lead his unit in comebacks after Luka with his unit played like crap. Brunson has been better than Luka as a starter as well but they were losing those games because they had nobody to come off the bench for him.

Besides, Brunson has played in every single Mavs win this year so your suggestion that Luka is "the" reason they win more games with him is false. Take Brunson out and only play Luka and the Mavs are sub .500 in that stretch easy. The fact is he has been bad this year, there is no way around it.

About Covid... I had it 2 weeks ago, was a mild flu for 2-3 days. Went to the gym 5 days after my symptoms were gone and didnt lose a step. No issues at all. And I could be Lukas father if I started really really early 8-)


I agree to certain degree but like any coach or player will say, stats/advance stats only paint half of the picture. You still need people on the floor to see how defense reacts and ultimately what is the outcome. So far, when Luka plays and with all the issues that he has this season, Mavs still do better in the win column. And this play i posted is one of the main reasons why he needs to play. If DFS made all his shots, Mavs would have won by a much larger difference.

Obviously if Luka was in better shape he could have attacked the rim more often, so he has to shoulder some blame on why this game was closer than it should have been.


I already explained why Dallas has a better record when Luka is playing but you keep ignoring it. Again, his units are consistently worse than the opposition when he is on the floor. The fact is that Dallas won more games because of good bench play instead of starting fives play. When Brunson was moved to starting five, they suddenly became positive but the bench was not competitive. Do you see the trend? You cant blame Lukas bad on/off numbers on his teammates because when Brunson was starting (with the same starting players) the numbers magically went from - with Luka to + with Brunson. How do you explain that?
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#45 » by Archx » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:15 pm

XTraderXL wrote:
Spoiler:
Archx wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
Of course they win more games with him playing but thats more because with him out, they dont have a back up since Brunson is the primary PG. Switch Luka for another "Brunson" off the bench and this team would have been at 0.650 this year. He has been a consistently negative player this year when he is on the court, Brunson a consistent plus. In fact it happened many times that Brunson was the one who had to lead his unit in comebacks after Luka with his unit played like crap. Brunson has been better than Luka as a starter as well but they were losing those games because they had nobody to come off the bench for him.

Besides, Brunson has played in every single Mavs win this year so your suggestion that Luka is "the" reason they win more games with him is false. Take Brunson out and only play Luka and the Mavs are sub .500 in that stretch easy. The fact is he has been bad this year, there is no way around it.

About Covid... I had it 2 weeks ago, was a mild flu for 2-3 days. Went to the gym 5 days after my symptoms were gone and didnt lose a step. No issues at all. And I could be Lukas father if I started really really early 8-)


I agree to certain degree but like any coach or player will say, stats/advance stats only paint half of the picture. You still need people on the floor to see how defense reacts and ultimately what is the outcome. So far, when Luka plays and with all the issues that he has this season, Mavs still do better in the win column. And this play i posted is one of the main reasons why he needs to play. If DFS made all his shots, Mavs would have won by a much larger difference.

Obviously if Luka was in better shape he could have attacked the rim more often, so he has to shoulder some blame on why this game was closer than it should have been.

I already explained why Dallas has a better record when Luka is playing but you keep ignoring it. Again, his units are consistently worse than the opposition when he is on the floor. The fact is that Dallas won more games because of good bench play instead of starting fives play. When Brunson was moved to starting five, they suddenly became positive but the bench was not competitive. Do you see the trend? You cant blame Lukas bad on/off numbers on his teammates because when Brunson was starting (with the same starting players) the numbers magically went from - with Luka to + with Brunson. How do you explain that?


There are multiple threads where i said that Brunson is doing insanely good job and i don't understand why people want to trade him. He has the argument to be the 2nd most important player on this team at this point. What i am trying to tell you is, with all the brilliance of Brunson, you still need Luka with all his issues to WIN games. If everything what you're saying was 100% rock solid, then Mavs should bite apple and move on from Luka and see how far they can go.


Luka, DFS, Powell, Porzingis, THJ ( most played lineup ) is -16pts per 100
...same lineup WITH Brunson is only -3 per 100. But they also played aprox 60 minutes less. So smaller sample size. Still it indicates what you said, Brunson works better than Luka.

Luka, DFS, Bullock, Powell, THJ are a whooping -40 pts per 100.. And that's a horrible lineup because it has Powell in it and a 28% 3pt shooter Bullock. You add the inconsistent THJ and On/Off numbers quickly tank.

Brunson on the other hand has more positive lineups with +points because he hardly plays without either Luka or KP on the floor, while Luka plays a lot without either Brunson or KP. And that's on Kidd to figure out best lineups. It's why also Bob8 mentioned couple of times that Luka plays with horrible and inconsistant lineups. He obviously can't carry this season like he did in playoffs where it didn't matter who played with him, he was simply unstoppable.

For example, Luka, Bullock, DFS, KP, Powell is +29pts per 100 on similar margin size than the same lineup with Brunson but without Luka. But Brunson in the same lineup is -5.5pts per 100.

These incredible inconsistencies go hand in hand what Mavs as a whole unit showed us this season. They can be really streaky or really cold. In one paragraph i can blame THJ and Powell yet in the other paragraph i basically show you that they can work great. It's an incredible paradox when it comes to this team.
It's also one of the main reasons why Luka looked bad early on when Mavs were one of the best shot creating teams but were ranked only 27th in long range shooting. Luka was, for the most part, top5 in all categories which you could use to judge someone's ability to create for his team.

Long story short... yeah, Brunson looks better on paper and i am not denying or ignoring what you're saying, but what actually works best for Mavs? Well W/L proves that they do better when Luka plays and has the ball. The sample size of Brunson is way to small. So it's going to take a lot of effort from Brunson to convince me that he should be their main playmaker or whatever you want to call it.
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#46 » by XTraderXL » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:37 pm

Archx wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
Spoiler:
Archx wrote:
I agree to certain degree but like any coach or player will say, stats/advance stats only paint half of the picture. You still need people on the floor to see how defense reacts and ultimately what is the outcome. So far, when Luka plays and with all the issues that he has this season, Mavs still do better in the win column. And this play i posted is one of the main reasons why he needs to play. If DFS made all his shots, Mavs would have won by a much larger difference.

Obviously if Luka was in better shape he could have attacked the rim more often, so he has to shoulder some blame on why this game was closer than it should have been.

I already explained why Dallas has a better record when Luka is playing but you keep ignoring it. Again, his units are consistently worse than the opposition when he is on the floor. The fact is that Dallas won more games because of good bench play instead of starting fives play. When Brunson was moved to starting five, they suddenly became positive but the bench was not competitive. Do you see the trend? You cant blame Lukas bad on/off numbers on his teammates because when Brunson was starting (with the same starting players) the numbers magically went from - with Luka to + with Brunson. How do you explain that?


There are multiple threads where i said that Brunson is doing insanely good job and i don't understand why people want to trade him. He has the argument to be the 2nd most important player on this team at this point. What i am trying to tell you is, with all the brilliance of Brunson, you still need Luka with all his issues to WIN games. If everything what you're saying was 100% rock solid, then Mavs should bite apple and move on from Luka and see how far they can go.


Luka, DFS, Powell, Porzingis, THJ ( most played lineup ) is -16pts per 100
...same lineup WITH Brunson is only -3 per 100. But they also played aprox 60 minutes less. So smaller sample size. Still it indicates what you said, Brunson works better than Luka.

Luka, DFS, Bullock, Powell, THJ are a whooping -40 pts per 100.. And that's a horrible lineup because it has Powell in it and a 28% 3pt shooter Bullock. You add the inconsistent THJ and On/Off numbers quickly tank.

Brunson on the other hand has more positive lineups with +points because he hardly plays without either Luka or KP on the floor, while Luka plays a lot without either Brunson or KP. And that's on Kidd to figure out best lineups. It's why also Bob8 mentioned couple of times that Luka plays with horrible and inconsistant lineups. He obviously can't carry this season like he did in playoffs where it didn't matter who played with him, he was simply unstoppable.

For example, Luka, Bullock, DFS, KP, Powell is +29pts per 100 on similar margin size than the same lineup with Brunson but without Luka. But Brunson in the same lineup is -5.5pts per 100.

These incredible inconsistencies go hand in hand what Mavs as a whole unit showed us this season. They can be really streaky or really cold. In one paragraph i can blame THJ and Powell yet in the other paragraph i basically show you that they can work great. It's an incredible paradox when it comes to this team.
It's also one of the main reasons why Luka looked bad early on when Mavs were one of the best shot creating teams but were ranked only 27th in long range shooting. Luka was, for the most part, top5 in all categories which you could use to judge someone's ability to create for his team.

Long story short... yeah, Brunson looks better on paper and i am not denying or ignoring what you're saying, but what actually works best for Mavs? Well W/L proves that they do better when Luka plays and has the ball. The sample size of Brunson is way to small. So it's going to take a lot of effort from Brunson to convince me that he should be their main playmaker or whatever you want to call it.



I never said they dont need him. He has by far the highest ceiling on this team and is one of the best players in the league, when he is in shape and in form. But this year so far Dallas would have a better record if they had another player similar to Brunson instead of Luka. That doesnt mean that will be the case as the season moves forward and by no means I am advocating for a trade or to bench Luka.

I would however closely look at this coming offseason and see what Luka does. If he doesnt have the discipline to lose weight and get in shape, I would trade him at first opportunity while his trade value is still so high. I would not wait for him to get his head straight for another few years. Every season he comes back heavier and his game has not progressed for 2 years now. Thats pretty unusual for a 22 y.o. player. He should be getting better every year at this age but he is stagnating or getting worse. Who knows, maybe he is what he is at this point and based on what I know about him personally, I am not 100% he will be able to ever get in good enough shape to fulfill his potential which would be a terrible shame. I think he could be the best player on the planet for years to come but he wont do it at 270lbs or whatever his weight is now. Honestly he looks like 280lbs to me at this point. He looks massive on the court.
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#47 » by juanc » Mon Jan 3, 2022 3:50 pm

Luka's impact on the game this year is simmilar to Westbrook's. Yes he does some nice things here and there, but overall he has been a disaster this year. I remember at the begining of the season when everybody was saying that Luka needs better teammates, that he can't go nowhere with this team, etc.
The reality is that he/the Mavs can go nowhere when he plays like that and is 40 pounds overweight. Playoff and olympic Luka was great, but what we are witnessing now is just a shade of that.
I'm not voting for him in the all star voting this year becouse well, he doesn't deserve it in my opinion.
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#48 » by Archx » Mon Jan 3, 2022 4:38 pm

XTraderXL wrote:I would however closely look at this coming offseason and see what Luka does.


Yeah, this is something i wonder aswell. Irony is, maybe best thing for him would be to really miss the playoffs, take a month off then push the reset button and start grinding. In his rookie year i often said "wait till' he's around 23/24yo, he'll be quicker, stronger, more agile and faster... Well, he's stronger alright :lol: Olympics screwed him up basically, apparently he needs longer breaks in order to clear his head and then come back more prepared.
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#49 » by fuller4379 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:23 pm

I think we were spoiled with Dirk. Dirk would work all off-season to add something to his game.
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Re: RS 21/22 - Mavs @ Thunder (Mond. 7PM EST) 

Post#50 » by Bob8 » Mon Jan 3, 2022 6:07 pm

XTraderXL wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:

Brunson usually doesnt let the game to be this close against bad teams so he doesnt even need some circus assists to clinch the game. With Luka on the court the Mavs cant seem to dominate even the bad teams. Something is up with him this season, his demeanor has been different this whole year. Its not just bad conditioning in my opinion.


You might be a bit exaggerating about Brunson. ;)

1st game after being out 3 weeks, with very limited training because of Covid, doesn't tell much about Luka too. He will need few weeks to show, what he's really capable of in this season.


Well, thats what all advanced stats show. But we all know what Luka can do when he is on top of his game, his ceiling is far higher than Brunsons. But so far this year its a simple fact that the Mavs would have a better record if they had a player like Brunson instead of Luka.

Its true that it was his first game after 3 weeks but he hasnt been playing much better than this before they sent him to fat camp either :lol:


I believe Luka's season till now is really a big disappointment, but there are many reasons for that. Luka started similarly bad like last year and then he had much better November, like last year. Differences between this year and last year are obvious too. Kidd and missing 14 games in a period, when he should became better.

Brunson on the other hand used everything on his disposal. No Luka and strange Covid season with many teams having problems. His preparation on crucial season in his carrier and his motivation obviously on other level. I still doubt very much he can be a leader of a good playoff team. Clippers for example would have crushed him in playoffs. He and Luka aren't good pairing either, because nobody can't defend. Brunson being as 6th man works the best, but I doubt Mavs can afford, what he will ask next year and someone else will pay.

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