Messi 2022 and Dirk 2011

Post #1 » by **Mavrelous** » Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:38 pm

These were nerve wrecking 3 hours, I saw France going up 4-3 in the last minute, but a huge save led to counter attack that almost finished the game and Messi won the title in the penalties carrying Argentina on his back.
Brought me back to 2011 when Dirk finally got his ring, the failure in 2007 compared to Messi in 2010, the missed chance against the Heat in 2006 compared to 2014 finals against Germany.
Two ATG, Messi maybe the best ever and Dirk top 10, finally get their deserved title at the biggest stage of rheir sport.
Sports are exciting and fun, but there are special moments that go beyond the glory in the trophy, moments where men bigger than life finally slay their daemons.

When joy visits you
Don't try to remember its previous betrayals
Let joy come through and explode
-- Mahmoud Darwish

Apz · Post #2 » by **Apz** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:10 am

Reminds me more of ray bourque(spelling?). Sakic and Forsberg let ray take the stanley cup trophy even tho he werent captain.

Maradona still greater then messi tho

UglyBugBall · Post #3 » by **UglyBugBall** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:34 pm

Not really comparable. Argentina has one of the best supporting casts around Messi in international football. Especially defensively, they are dominant for almost a decade now. This wasn't Maradona winning with an average cast. Dirk had decent teammates, but relative to the league it was a far weaker supporting cast than that of Argentinas.

I do think this win moves Messi clearly above Ronaldo now. But it wasn't a Dirk-esque carry job.

Post #4 » by **Mavrelous** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:47 pm

UglyBugBall wrote:Not really comparable. Argentina has one of the best supporting casts around Messi in international football. Especially defensively, they are dominant for almost a decade now. This wasn't Maradona winning with an average cast. Dirk had decent teammates, but relative to the league it was a far weaker supporting cast than that of Argentinas.

I do think this win moves Messi clearly above Ronaldo now. But it wasn't a Dirk-esque carry job.

You're over-estimating Agentina's supporting cast IMO, it's worse than France, Brazil, England and even Spain, but this isn't the comparison I'm drawing, it's about going through big failure when recognized as the best is SA 2010/Dubs 2007 (Messi's first Ballon d'Or, Dirk's only MVP season) and reaching very close and losing against Germany 14/Heat 06, and winning in your last shot, Messi is 35, Dirk was 33, with old costar (Di Maria and JET and Kidd).

UglyBugBall · Post #5 » by **UglyBugBall** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:55 pm

Mavrelous wrote:
UglyBugBall wrote:Not really comparable. Argentina has one of the best supporting casts around Messi in international football. Especially defensively, they are dominant for almost a decade now. This wasn't Maradona winning with an average cast. Dirk had decent teammates, but relative to the league it was a far weaker supporting cast than that of Argentinas.

I do think this win moves Messi clearly above Ronaldo now. But it wasn't a Dirk-esque carry job.

You're over-estimating Agentina's supporting cast IMO, it's worse than France, Brazil, England and even Spain, but this isn't the comparison I'm drawing, it's about going through big failure when recognized as the best is SA 2010/Dubs 2007 (Messi's first Ballon d'Or, Dirk's only MVP season) and reaching very close and losing against Germany 14/Heat 06, and winning in your last shot, Messi is 35, Dirk was 33, with old costar (Di Maria and JET and Kidd).

I see what you're saying. Although in that case I disagree because I dont think anyone really thought that Dirk was the best, and so I dont think he had nearly the same expectations as Messi did. I dont think many were expecting him to win a championship in an era of Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Duncan etc. If anything, Messi's win is more similar to that of Lebrons, where there was a belief among some people that it was the only thing between them being all time players or legitimate GOATs.

Post #6 » by **Mavrelous** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:00 pm

In 2007? After the 2006 run? GSW were a bad team, but they had the Mavs number in RS alst, that's the only doubt there was, Mavs were a great team and title favourites, expected to steamroll their way to a title, Kobe and Lebron teams were non factors, Cavs were swept by the Spurs easily, as expected, and Dirk was MVP despite shameless ESPN capmpaign for LeBron "We are all witnesses" or something like that.