RS 24/25 - Mavs @ Jazz (Sat 930PM EST)

[Dirk]

Revenge game for the loss from a few weeks ago.



Mavs play the Blazers the following night.

[GermanFan120]

We need to beat them up by 40 points.

[41Dirk41]

We need to beat them up by 40 points.

In the first half.

[Mavrelous]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[GermanFan120]

Somebody punches Sexton's face already please.

[StoneIsland]

I didn’t watch the game, why did Marshall play so little?

[Mavrelous]

I didn’t watch the game, why did Marshall play so little?

Didn't watch either but post game recaps say he's sick.
Impressive they were able to get these wins while being this shorthanded.

[41Dirk41]

Mr Kyrie Irving. Again.
He is stronger than the haters. Best trade ever for the Mavs. What a vocale leader, what a floor leader, what a Locker room leader. Thank you Kai.

Another huge game by Big Gaf and PJ. Solid.
Spencer great from the bench. All board Always cheers for you. Even in that 0-50 game hahahhahah
Grimes with a great start.
D-Liv solid game. Kessler is a tough match up for him.
Naji played so so and then he was out. Sick probably.
Hardy is a disaster.
Maxi is just a body, at least he has to become our Marcus Morris. Dirty, tough and trash talker... Because he is done as basketball player.

We badly need Luka and Klay.

Next one.

[StoneIsland]

I didn’t watch the game, why did Marshall play so little?

Didn't watch either but post game recaps say he's sick.
Impressive they were able to get these wins while being this shorthanded.

I just read that he had respiratory problems in the locker room at the halftime break. Probably just the product of earlier illness. I doubt he will play tonight, but I hope at least Luka and Klay will come back and the rest of the team will play again.

[HMFFL]

Quentin Grimes had a very good game with the exception of his 1-6 shooting from the line.



Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Archx]

I want Green back for Hardy. No brainer. If Dinwiddie can continue to play under control and produce good minutes, with Luka, Klay and Exum returning, no use of Hardy anymore. And Maxi is also a complete mystery at this point.

[arkuo]

Team plays better without Luka.

[Mavrelous]

I want Green back for Hardy. No brainer. If Dinwiddie can continue to play under control and produce good minutes, with Luka, Klay and Exum returning, no use of Hardy anymore. And Maxi is also a complete mystery at this point.

Why? Grimes is everything Green was supposed to be...
Green had 2 giod games when Lamello was out, he was terrible next to him, same issue on the Mavs.
I wa.t Maxi and OMax to turn to DFS, that's all Mavs need IMO, I'm sick of the will he won't he game with Maxi.

[Archx]

Team plays better without Luka.

This is actually interesting to look at. We know Mavs lost some early games by pt difference of 1,2,3,1, etc... Obviously things that stood out to fans were Perkins and his minions yelling at the cloud how bad Mavs are under Luka-lead team.

Then if we go into details, and check some things media also forgot to point out, which are injuries. Lively, PJ were out, Grimes was benched, Naji was still figuring out his role and Dinwiddie was auditioning for some random Chinese team.

Now fast forward a bit and going into details with Mavs lineup combinations you can clearly see a huge improvement if you only slot one of these guys into various lineup combinations.

Mavs most played lineup this season is K. Irving - K. Thompson - P. Washington - L. Dončić - D. Gafford with -13.4 NETrtg (bad)
...but what happens when you slot a healty Lively in this same lineup instead of Gafford? They jump to a whooping +25.6 NETrtg.

Another example a lineup without Luka.

K. Irving - K. Thompson - P. Washington - D. Gafford - Q. Grimes -27.6 NETrtg
....now swap Gafford with Lively and you get an insane +42.5 NETrtg

And i could go on and on with similar examples when you slot Grimes in the lineup in various combinations (with or without Luka).

I know it's easy just to say "Hey Luka is holding the team back, now they're winning" but when you go and check ALL things it's actually the opposite. Believe it or not, Mavs have a worse defensive statistics without Doncic, they have worse shot quality production without Luka, etc... I won't bore you with all of this, too much to read and type out.

TLDR; Mavs had a bit easier schedule now PLUS they got important pieces back. Sure, we could say role players stepped up and learned to play within the system better now that Luka was out but ALL IN ALL, no Mavs don't play better without him. We have a sample size of 6 years to prove it, we would need much more than 20 games to get to this conclusion.

[Archx]

I want Green back for Hardy. No brainer. If Dinwiddie can continue to play under control and produce good minutes, with Luka, Klay and Exum returning, no use of Hardy anymore. And Maxi is also a complete mystery at this point.

Why? Grimes is everything Green was supposed to be...
Green had 2 giod games when Lamello was out, he was terrible next to him, same issue on the Mavs.
I wa.t Maxi and OMax to turn to DFS, that's all Mavs need IMO, I'm sick of the will he won't he game with Maxi.

Was more of a joke than me being serious. But it is true if Hornets offered the same deal i would take it Otherwise ship Hardy and Maxi for a functioning PF. I can't stand watching Maxi turning down completely open 3's just to watch him dribble out of bounds 2 seconds later.

[daoneandonly]

Nice win, really want to see the momentum continue no.matter who they play

Hop Naji feels better soon. Solid team effort.

Please say no to Green ha, that past mistake is over. Only former Mav worth pursuing is DFS. but not at the expense of a FRP

[arkuo]

Team plays better without Luka.

This is actually interesting to look at. We know Mavs lost some early games by pt difference of 1,2,3,1, etc... Obviously things that stood out to fans were Perkins and his minions yelling at the cloud how bad Mavs are under Luka-lead team.

Then if we go into details, and check some things media also forgot to point out, which are injuries. Lively, PJ were out, Grimes was benched, Naji was still figuring out his role and Dinwiddie was auditioning for some random Chinese team.

Now fast forward a bit and going into details with Mavs lineup combinations you can clearly see a huge improvement if you only slot one of these guys into various lineup combinations.

Mavs most played lineup this season is K. Irving - K. Thompson - P. Washington - L. Dončić - D. Gafford with -13.4 NETrtg (bad)
...but what happens when you slot a healty Lively in this same lineup instead of Gafford? They jump to a whooping +25.6 NETrtg.

Another example a lineup without Luka.

K. Irving - K. Thompson - P. Washington - D. Gafford - Q. Grimes -27.6 NETrtg
....now swap Gafford with Lively and you get an insane +42.5 NETrtg

And i could go on and on with similar examples when you slot Grimes in the lineup in various combinations (with or without Luka).

I know it's easy just to say "Hey Luka is holding the team back, now they're winning" but when you go and check ALL things it's actually the opposite. Believe it or not, Mavs have a worse defensive statistics without Doncic, they have worse shot quality production without Luka, etc... I won't bore you with all of this, too much to read and type out.

TLDR; Mavs had a bit easier schedule now PLUS they got important pieces back. Sure, we could say role players stepped up and learned to play within the system better now that Luka was out but ALL IN ALL, no Mavs don't play better without him. We have a sample size of 6 years to prove it, we would need much more than 20 games to get to this conclusion.

The thing is, if Luka is averaging 32 or something, with him coming back, the team won't suddenly score 170 points per game. Everybody else will just score a little less while Luka gets 28 touches per game.

I analyze basketball simply. You move the ball to the open guy for a an open 3, versus Luka dribbling 19 seconds for a stepback 3. 3 points is the same 3 points.

That style of play won't make Luka finish out the year strong. It does get him a lot of youtube highlights for triple doubles, but he ends the year with a ketchup stain on his knee and he's burnt out again from dominating the ball.

Something's gotta give. Been doing it for 6 years as you said, expecting a different result, like Luka suddenly not being gassed out in the playoffs is not the likely result. We've seen the same movie over and over. Crash out of the playoffs, Luka being gassed out. Then still playing for Slovenia. Then coming back into camp out of shape and needing rest. Same as his technical fouls every year, and yes, we've heard the "it's on me, I have to do better" line every year too. Glad to be proven wrong for one season for a change though. Otherwise, it's "Luka needs 3 more all stars from Nico Harrison again".

[Archx]

The thing is, if Luka is averaging 32 or something, with him coming back, the team won't suddenly score 170 points per game. Everybody else will just score a little less while Luka gets 28 touches per game.

I analyze basketball simply. You move the ball to the open guy for a an open 3, versus Luka dribbling 19 seconds for a stepback 3. 3 points is the same 3 points.

That style of play won't make Luka finish out the year strong. It does get him a lot of youtube highlights for triple doubles, but he ends the year with a ketchup stain on his knee and he's burnt out again from dominating the ball.

All of what you said could be true. Though there are some little things underneath all of this that you can still simply compare with stats.

Mavs offense a lot of times had problems in the 4th Q because they were all over the place, not even Kyrie could organize them because he's not a true PG. Even vs Jazz they made a lot of silly mistakes on offense because they were rushing and just looked all over the place. You need someone to calm things down and specially in playoffs when game slows a lot, you need basically one of the best half court players in the NBA to have the ball in his hands.

Luka leads the team in fast break points 4.6, Kyrie is 2nd with 2.3 per game, he also scores 3x more than Kyrie in pts of TO's. So, when people say he plays slow, etc. That's actually a very lazy argument.

He also leads the team in points in the paint, Gafford being 2nd. Also an area where you usually draw most fouls another underrated aspect of the game, which Mavs miss right now.

Another "small" things that are quite big when they add up over the season.

-% of drawn fouls, Luka leads the team by a large margin
-% of steals Luka 2nd behind PJ

In the last 4 games with Luka being out, Kyrie as a team leader, still had much worse AST%, and also barely played with a faster pace than Luka, on almost 30% USG%.

Kyrie is also 2nd behind Luka in passes made per game.

And another interesting fact about passing game. Luka passes leads to 7.6 assists per game which results to a total of 20.6 FG's per game from Mavs players. And Mavs players are shooting team high 47% from the field when they receive a pass from Luka on a bigger example size.

Compared to Kyrie, his passes lead to 17.3 FGA per game and Mavs players make only 41% of those. Which means there is a ton of room in shot and quality of shot creations with Luka out.

And if you filter that, last 4 games without Luka, Kyrie's passing actually gets worse because he gets more attention. His passes lead to 20 FGA's per game but % of makes drops to 38%.

I think there is a ton of small things that fans miss and don't appreciate when Luka leads the offense.

[Mavrelous]

This is the 1st time since 2018 that Luka-less Mavs are a good team, including teams led by Brunson and KP, this is a cause for celebration, not womdering whether Mavs need their best player.
Celtics without Tatum are 55+ wins team, Warriors are 3-1 w/on Stepth with 1 very close loss to OKC, it doesn't take from the players themselves that the team w/o them is good.

[Archx]

This is the 1st time since 2018 that Luka-less Mavs are a good team, including teams led by Brunson and KP, this is a cause for celebration, not womdering whether Mavs need their best player.
Celtics without Tatum are 55+ wins team, Warriors are 3-1 w/on Stepth with 1 very close loss to OKC, it doesn't take from the players themselves that the team w/o them is good.

I think we're all happy they're finally back on the right track. Other aspects like going into details "WHY?" are also fun. Is it not allowed to analyse things or why would this need an explanation from a mod?