Minnesota proposal

4ho5ive · Post #1 » by **4ho5ive** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:03 pm

Im not exactly sure on your depth at SF, but at a glance it doesnt seem like there is much outside of Howard. With that said Minnesota is trying to find a way to pick up another 1st round pick in this years draft. You may not want yours as it will be very high and likely push you over the lux. So....

Ryan Gomes for Maurice Ager + 1st round pick 2008.

You get a hustle 3/4 tweener with a sweet mid range J, for a D-league prospect and the aformentioned 1st.

Realmavsman · Post #2 » by **Realmavsman** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:06 pm

4ho5ive wrote:Im not exactly sure on your depth at SF, but at a glance it doesnt seem like there is much outside of Howard. With that said Minnesota is trying to find a way to pick up another 1st round pick in this years draft. You may not want yours as it will be very high and likely push you over the lux. So....

Ryan Gomes for Maurice Ager + 1st round pick 2008.

You get a hustle 3/4 tweener with a sweet mid range J, for a D-league prospect and the aformentioned 1st.

I would rather keep the 1st round pick. Not sure that Ryan Gomes is any better than our pick this year in Reyshawn Terry. He is playing in Europe this year but that is because our team is stacked and there was no room for him yet.

JES12 · Post #3 » by **JES12** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:09 pm

Gomes is better than Ager for sure, but what is the point? Gomes would not see playing time in Dallas and by the time he does (2010..when Stack, Ager, Hassell, Jones and maybe George are gone) he would be 28 staring at the 30 mark.

I'd rather draft a 20yo, send him to the D-league for 2 years and then play him at age 22 with Reyshawn Terry and Fazekas.

Beat me to it Realmavsman!

4ho5ive · Post #4 » by **4ho5ive** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:14 pm

Ah! I completely forgot you guys drafted Terry. I like that kid too. Oh well.

shrink · Post #5 » by **shrink** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:17 pm

Realmavsman wrote: I would rather keep the 1st round pick. Not sure that Ryan Gomes is any better than our pick this year in Reyshawn Terry. He is playing in Europe this year but that is because our team is stacked and there was no room for him yet.

Oh come on. Ryan Gomes has started over 100 games in his short NBA carreer. He has shown he can score inside and outside against NBA competition. He's been averaging about 14 PPG and 9 RPG over his last ten games, plays good defense and has a good attitude.

Posters from two other teams have said he's worth a late first, and I think that's a fair assessment. Any more gets into some legitimate prospects, any less is second round hopefuls. The difference is that Gomes provides production now.

Now, I could understand an argument like, "We're fine for the play-offs and don't need another option at SF/PF." But you're talking about the 28th pick, and a guaranteed salary next year to boot. I think its unfair to say he's no better than Reyshawn Terry with what Gomes has proven in the NBA.

JES12 · Post #6 » by **JES12** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:22 pm

shrink

If we can clear some playing time for him, then I could see a "fair" trade occuring, but we have absloutly no room for the guy and any offer from us would not be what Minny would concider "fair value".

Dallas trading for prospect(s) that want to see playing time before 2010 is unrealistic.

I can see us trading our 1st for a 2010 1st, but Gomes is clearly worth more to you than us.

shrink · Post #7 » by **shrink** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:35 pm

I don't see Gomes as a "prospect" but if you say that he won't get any playing time (his numbers are a little better than Stackhouse's), then I'll respect that.

And why in the world would a team with a record like MIN trade a 2010 1st for probably the 28th pick in this draft? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Pointguard01 · Post #8 » by **Pointguard01** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:53 pm

shrink wrote:I don't see Gomes as a "prospect" but if you say that he won't get any playing time (his numbers are a little better than Stackhouse's), then I'll respect that.

And why in the world would a team with a record like MIN trade a 2010 1st for probably the 28th pick in this draft? That doesn't make any sense to me.

While I would love a player like Gomes, Avery is too in love with guys like Devean George and Jerry Stackhouse to give Gomes playing time over them.

shrink · Post #9 » by **shrink** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:35 pm

Pointguard01 wrote: While I would love a player like Gomes, Avery is too in love with guys like Devean George and Jerry Stackhouse to give Gomes playing time over them.

Fair enough. Well said.

dirkforpres · Post #10 » by **dirkforpres** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:38 am

I would do the trade if Juwan was included instead of the pick... It wont be that great of a draft this year from the looks of it, but I would still like to keep the pick... Does anyone know how Reyshawn is doing BTW?

JES12 · Post #11 » by **JES12** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:50 am

shrink wrote:I don't see Gomes as a "prospect" but if you say that he won't get any playing time (his numbers are a little better than Stackhouse's), then I'll respect that.

And why in the world would a team with a record like MIN trade a 2010 1st for probably the 28th pick in this draft? That doesn't make any sense to me.

1) People around the league still call Devin Harris a prospect at 14.1 PPG, 5.3 APG & 1.71 SPG...hell, they did not even put him on the all-star ballot. So don't take offense to the "prospect" label being tagged on a 25yo avg 10 PPG & 5 RPG on the worst team in the NBA this year and the just slightly more on the 2nd worst team in the NBA last year.

2) If the season was to end right now, we would have the 26th pick (so just stop it with you trying to devalue our pick by calling it the 28th) and we are 2.5 games away drom the 21st pick. Hopefully Minny would increase their record similar to the Blazer's, so a 21-26 pick this year (still a slightly deeper than normal draft) should be equal value to a 11-25 pick 3 years away (assuming top 10 protected pick).

JES12 · Post #12 » by **JES12** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:53 am

Oh, BTW, I called him a prospect because he would not see any playing time here. Combine that with the fact that he never has established himself as a star vs mediocure at best player.

So prospect or scrub? Which do you want me to call him? He ceratinly is no star player anywhere or even a starter here.

Post #13 » by **studcrackers** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:48 am

im not even sure if we can trade our 1st rounder this year

also i dont want to trade for a guy that probably wont see the floor here, given the mavs ability to find decent players at the back end of the draft id rather keep the pick

if myself was going to do a trade i'd do a 3 for 1 or 4 for 2, so i could get rid of our "depth" (more like players that can play but are just rotting away w/us, they arent that special either) for a player like magette or artest

Rand10 · Post #14 » by **Rand10** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:18 am

I'd rather have the pick too. Gomes is decent but doesn't fill a need here. They can have Ager for free though.

shrink · Post #15 » by **shrink** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:58 am

JES12 wrote: 2) If the season was to end right now, we would have the 26th pick (so just stop it with you trying to devalue our pick by calling it the 28th) and we are 2.5 games away drom the 21st pick. Hopefully Minny would increase their record similar to the Blazer's, so a 21-26 pick this year (still a slightly deeper than normal draft) should be equal value to a 11-25 pick 3 years away (assuming top 10 protected pick).

I believe DAL will end the season as one of the five best teams in the league. I used the number #28 because I figure its the expected value of the pick in the range #26-#30. I was not trying to devalue it.

I will say though that you seem pretty pessimistic about your team though. 21-26? You're at 26 now, and your only possibility is that you stay even or go down? And you think there are nine teams that might have better records?

You guys are better than that, I hope!

Post #16 » by **studcrackers** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:20 am

he was just presenting a hypothetical since right now the top teams records are all within a few games of each other

JD45 · Post #17 » by **JD45** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:29 pm

I think Gomes and Bass are similar.

I like Gomes' shooting range, but Bass has played well in Dallas. Both are 3/4 tweeners. I don't think the Mavs have room for two players like that. Maybe Gomes is a little better. It is hard to say and it would be hard for him to move in front of Bass when he would be coming into a new system in mid-season.

But the trade idea is very fair and a nice idea to discuss.

Realmavsman · Post #18 » by **Realmavsman** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:48 pm

No offense but personally I think people are overrating Gomes. Someone has to score and rebound even on bad teams. There is always going to be people on bad teams that still average double figures. Someone has to take the shots and get the rebounds. I just think that Gomes' numbers are partially a function of playing on teams that are not very good and not very deep.

So despite the fact that he is in Europe, I am not sure that if you put Reyshawn Terry on the T-Wolves and gave him the same minutes as Gomes is getting he would not average similar numbers. I could be dead wrong and I will be honest that I have not watched a lot of Ryan Gomes play but that is my feeling.

I certainly don't think that Gomes would get much if any time on this current Mavericks team.

jwa1107 · Post #19 » by **jwa1107** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:49 pm

dirkforpres wrote:I would do the trade if Juwan was included instead of the pick... It wont be that great of a draft this year from the looks of it, but I would still like to keep the pick... Does anyone know how Reyshawn is doing BTW?

Juwan was bought out by MIN; they don't want him back

and what an ultra crappy thing to do to a guy you signed to a vet min deal after a buyout - you should waive him before you trade him back to his buyout team because he might respect you more that way and it would not negatively impact players' opinions of the mgmt as much as the 'backstab' trade

4ho5ive · Post #20 » by **4ho5ive** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:32 pm

Realmavsman wrote:No offense but personally I think people are overrating Gomes. Someone has to score and rebound even on bad teams. There is always going to be people on bad teams that still average double figures. Someone has to take the shots and get the rebounds. I just think that Gomes' numbers are partially a function of playing on teams that are not very good and not very deep.

So despite the fact that he is in Europe, I am not sure that if you put Reyshawn Terry on the T-Wolves and gave him the same minutes as Gomes is getting he would not average similar numbers. I could be dead wrong and I will be honest that I have not watched a lot of Ryan Gomes play but that is my feeling.

I certainly don't think that Gomes would get much if any time on this current Mavericks team.

I dont think we are overrating him too much. Some of us figured you guys could use someone to hustle at the 3 spot. I glanced at the roster and didnt really see a solid backup so i assumed (and i was wrong) that you needed someone.

As has been said many times here, he wouldnt crack the rotation, thats fine, my bad. But the kid's mid-range J is nothing to scoff at, and he brings alot of hustle. Alot of Celtics fans were upset he was thrown in the KG deal and if you want more info on him, just ask them.