Lets Give Him His Due

daoneandonly · Post #1 » by **daoneandonly** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:18 pm

Now me and him have rarely seen eye to eye, as with many of my fellow mavs posters, but lets give the poster we all know as JES his due, he was absolutely right about Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd has given us a combined 4 points in 2 very crucial games, his defense is not as good as Harris, we lost Diop the only guy that could somewhat contain Duncan or Amare, we lose picks, all for what, a PG who gives us nothing but assaulting his ex wife, cheating on her, having a son with quite a noggin, and groping women in clubs.

We barely ever agree JES, and in the future again we may not, but touch

your_dallas_mavericks · Post #2 » by **your_dallas_mavericks** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:58 pm

You just opened up a huge helping of "I told ya so!" and I think we are all about to be force fed.

Well, we have this one coming. I'm in agreement with da1&only...

Post #3 » by **catalyst** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:11 pm

UGH. Do we have to?

He was right. I do not know if mavs would have been OK with the legacy players, but they are clearly not as good without them. Real shame. This is the risk of making big trades. I was takign the opinion of wait and See. This trade has not made this team better this season.

JaeRell · Post #4 » by **JaeRell** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:37 pm

not a mav or kidd fan..but your team's offense doesn't even take advantage of kidd's strengths...

why does avery run isos to howard and dirk all the time when kidd is on the floor?

why don't the mavs get into transition more with kidd on the floor?

it's like yall are playing the same offense as if devin harris was here...but the difference is kidd can't shoot hanging around the three point line when yall do isos all game.

in half court.... it's so stagnant...you guys need to move off the ball more with cuts and screens so kidd can use his court vision.

dampier seems like the only one making the moves off the ball to get open.

i mean...the suns switched their offense a little to accommodate shaq...why can't avery switch the offense a little?

i think avery should be gone...i thought i heard the commentators say that avery wanted kidd to be more aggresive and shoot more...smh.

Post #5 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:46 pm

daoneandonly wrote:Now me and him have rarely seen eye to eye, as with many of my fellow mavs posters, but lets give the poster we all know as JES his due, he was absolutely right about Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd has given us a combined 4 points in 2 very crucial games

I didn't know Jason was a scorer to begin with! :dontknow:

JaeRell wrote:not a mav or kidd fan..but your team's offense doesn't even take advantage of kidd's strengths...

Very true and I'm still waiting too see this happen. Jason needs all his teammates to run, not just one, and yet we continue we to play weak basketball. Jason's not the problem, it's Avery at this point, and having a lack of talent on the bench to bring out what Jason does best.

daoneandonly · Post #6 » by **daoneandonly** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:10 pm

HMFFL:
I didnt know Devin Harris could run an offense to begin with and rack up assists, but wait, last two games, he's had 12 and 9 dimes, along with 20 plus points.

dirkforpres · Post #7 » by **dirkforpres** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:57 pm

Ugh this is almost as bad as having to say emil2k was right about Blatche... Well, you were right JES... Kidd is cancer to this team.

Post #8 » by **DDansby123** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:36 pm

It's too bad our regular season record and how we play against teams in the regular season is all that matters.

daoneandonly · Post #9 » by **daoneandonly** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:38 pm

DDan there arent any posters I respect more than you and catalyst, but its not a lock we're in the playoffs, GS can overtake us after we lose to SA, Denver is not just some idle team, we keep losing like this, and we will be out.

Post #10 » by **DDansby123** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:51 pm

daoneandonly wrote:DDan there arent any posters I respect more than you and catalyst, but its not a lock we're in the playoffs, GS can overtake us after we lose to SA, Denver is not just some idle team, we keep losing like this, and we will be out.

Of course, but everyone seems to be acting as though the season's already over.

Post #11 » by **catalyst** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:53 pm

daoneandonly wrote:DDan there arent any posters I respect more than you and catalyst,

This shows how misguided your poor soul is, daone.

daoneandonly · Post #12 » by **daoneandonly** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:21 pm

haha its all about respect cat, all about respect

JES12 · Post #13 » by **JES12** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:32 pm

Ah, a thread just for me!

I feel so special. Wait..that's not the first time I've been called "special."

HMFFL: You are right, Kidd is not the problem. Kidd adds a demntion to this team we did not have before, but he also took a lot away by the pieces it took to get him (Hassell, Diop & Harris, who all should have had about 5-10 more MPG). If you guys remember the arguments with DDansby that finally made him put me on his ignore list, his argument was that "THIS" team needed Kidd and my argument was that "THIS" team needed Harris.

In the right system, Kidd > Harris (i.e. Kidd/Iverson trade would have boosted Denver to top 4), but Avery, Dirk, Howard, & our current squad + Harris > than Current squad + Kidd.

Honestly, major trades are fine even in mid season for all except the PG spot. The PG spot, especially as different as Harris and Kidd are, should be done in the offseason before training camp. And give the age of Kidd next off season, I may still not have liked it then.

But, the point is, the trade HAS been done. This IS our team. And we must hope that the post season proves me wrong!

JES12 · Post #14 » by **JES12** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:36 pm

dirkforpres wrote:Ugh this is almost as bad as having to say emil2k was right about Blatche... Well, you were right JES... Kidd is cancer to this team.

I wouldn't call him a cancer. Kidd is what he is. A great PG that puts up great assist numbers and great reb numbers on teams that don't have good rebounders up front. That is exactly what we got. To call him a cancer, IMO, is knee jerking.

I just wished Damp & Dirk acted like the regular season meant something before the trade rumors. Until then, they did not care. Now they are playing their hearts out and still falling short.

dirkforpres · Post #15 » by **dirkforpres** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:03 pm

Youre probably right... Calling a hall of fame point guard a cancer is probably overreacting, but everytime I look at his crappy stat line and watch him brick 3 pointers in clutch time (where everyone says he plays his best), it just makes me miss Devin just a little more.

Post #16 » by **DDansby123** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:00 pm

dirkforpres wrote:Youre probably right... Calling a hall of fame point guard a cancer is probably overreacting, but everytime I look at his crappy stat line and watch him brick 3 pointers in clutch time (where everyone says he plays his best), it just makes me miss Devin just a little more.

Devin wasn't exactly a clutch shooter, either. The problem is that NO ONE on this team seems capable of making a clutch basket anymore. Last season, we won a ton of close games that, in all honesty, we shouldn't have won. This year, particularly recently, that hasn't been the case. Last year, I'd find myself saying, "Dang, this team just finds ways to win ballgames." This year, I've been saying, "Dang, this team just finds ways to lose ballgames." We overachieved last year in the regular season and imploded in the playoffs. This year, if history repeats, our underachieving regular season ways will give way to overachieving in the playoffs and winning the title! Right?

Re: Kidd, I love how he makes this team look when we run a motion offense. And we've actually done that against some of the inferior teams we've played recently. But then we play the good teams and seem to revert back to iso ball to win games (which doesn't work). If we can get our players (and coach) more comfortable running a bunch of screens offensively and pushing the ball generally, I think we'll show fairly significant improvement by the playoffs. If we don't, we'll get bounced early, IMO.

Again, though, there's an inch worth of difference between 0-7 and winning games against SA, LA, and Boston. A little improvement, a few adjustments, and the law of averages kicking in (e.g., someone's got to make a clutch bucket SOMETIME, right?), we could be in really good shape for the playoffs. I'm not betting on that, but it's certainly a possibility.

Henry Turner · Post #17 » by **Henry Turner** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:22 pm

Trading devin wasn't a bad idea, trading devin and adding diop, hassell (he could have been useful against kobes, tmacs, ginobilis) + picks just for grandpa was a terrible idea.
I strongly believe that it killed the future of the franchise for the next years; we should have tried to play the psycho card (artest for stack+bass+pick) and get KT from seattle.

Post #18 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:56 pm

daoneandonly wrote:HMFFL:
I didnt know Devin Harris could run an offense to begin with and rack up assists, but wait, last two games, he's had 12 and 9 dimes, along with 20 plus points.

Give it time daoneandonly, you have yet to see what Jason can do for this team, but he needs his teammates to play his game. I'm not seeing much of that yet.

Your the one who mentioned Jason's scoring numbers, I never tried to compare assist numbers, and I figured everyone knew Jason was not a scorer.

To a certain extent, I like to think Devin may feel free now, and he can have more control of what goes on for New Jersey. I doubt he had that freedom with Dallas, and yet his career numbers should continue too improve now that he's off Dallas. Jason Kidd is still the premier point guard and can make a bigger impact on our beloved Mavericks.

I place so much blame on our management for going old during the offseason and not focusing on added more size. I also place some of the blame on Avery but many of our players are unable to do what he's wanting. I'm basically ready to see our bench revamped at some point.

JES12 · Post #19 » by **JES12** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:26 am

HMFFL wrote:To a certain extent, I like to think Devin may feel free now, and he can have more control of what goes on for New Jersey. I doubt he had that freedom with Dallas, and yet his career numbers should continue too improve now that he's off Dallas. Jason Kidd is still the premier point guard and can make a bigger impact on our beloved Mavericks.

In all fairness...coming from one of the best Devin fans....Harris is not doing all that well in New Jersey. Yes, he is more free. Yes, he is putting up more points and more assists in only slightly more minutes. However, he is jacking up a lot of shots also; he thinks he's Ray Allen now. He is missing many of them and appears to becoming a volume scorer. He is settling for the jumper more than slashing (oppoiste in Dallas). He still good defensivley, but he seems to be spending more energy on the offensive end now.

I like the dallas-Devin, not the New Jersey-Devin. I think the best would be Dallas minus Avery Devin, but no use walking down that road again.

Post #20 » by **HMFFL** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:54 am

JES12 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

In all fairness...coming from one of the best Devin fans....Harris is not doing all that well in New Jersey. Yes, he is more free. Yes, he is putting up more points and more assists in only slightly more minutes. However, he is jacking up a lot of shots also; he thinks he's Ray Allen now. He is missing many of them and appears to becoming a volume scorer. He is settling for the jumper more than slashing (oppoiste in Dallas). He still good defensivley, but he seems to be spending more energy on the offensive end now.

I like the dallas-Devin, not the New Jersey-Devin. I think the best would be Dallas minus Avery Devin, but no use walking down that road again.

True.

I feel he's going to do more now that he's with New Jersey. While he has more options, he needs to remember not to do too much, and stick to his roots. I love the offensive side of Devin, but like you said he needs to find away to control it more, and I'm sure he's going to realize that at some point. New Jersey is probably asking more out of him since they know he can shoot and defend.

I wish him the best as I'm a fan myself. I expect him to become an All-Star and the "What If" will carry over to this board as if we would win a title within our 3 year window with Devin.