RealGM

What do you guys think of how kidd played in dallas? is there any hope for next year?

on the chicago board there's a discussion about dealing kirk/nocioni for kidd, weigh in
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

I would do a Kirk/Nocioni for Kidd swap in a heartbeat... I think JKidd played with a lot of heart late in the season though... Had Avery used him right, he could have had a larger impact. Im all for trading for youth at this point though

I'd do that trade probably. It gives us Nocioni, who is a perfect backup SF/PF, which would allow us to trade Bass since his role would be dimminished anymore.

Maybe Stack/Howard/Bass for Redd/Mason?

Use the complete MLE on a backup C and we'd be looking solid, I guess.

G- Hinrich / Terry
G- Redd / Terry
F- Mason / Nocioni
F- Dirk /Nocioni
C- Damp / MLE

I'd do that trade anyday.

I'd pass because of their long term contracts.

Chicago may just trade Nocioni for an expiring, because he is way overpaid for his production this season. Nocioni for Stack may just be considerable for Chi. (i actually talked about that on the Chi board and they considered it)

And i dont want to downgrade from Kidd to Hinrich. That guy is overrated and overpayed.

Bottom line is we trade a big expiring for two fallen talents with bad contracts. As Kidd is still very productive, i rather hold on him or trade for a great player on a max contract on a thats looking to get under the cap.

i'd really rather hang on to kidd right now. i think that after we go through a training camp with him and the rest of the team it will pay off big. And if it so happens to not work out, we have a huge expiring chip for the trade deadline.

i'd be all over that! from a nonmonetary standpoint i think it would be good. both seemed to have down years last year(esp. Heinrich) but they were still decent. Both guys can score and shoot the 3. Heinrich can defend nicely (i think) and gets steals. I dont know what their contracts are like but honestly i just dont see that mattering for us anytime soon.

There is a thing to be said about keeping Kidd and letting him gel through training camp and next season. If we get a coach and some players that will utilize his skills then i think it would be ok to keep him. I don't see why Kidd can't get similar numbers that he did this year or like a 10-8-9 or so. If we SOMEHOW kept the core of Dirk Damp Jet JHo and added to it, or traded JET or JHo for improvements and had the right coach, i think we could compete again and just see what happens.

After what the mavs gave up for Kidd, i don't think he's going anywhere next season.

LOL, all the responces here must not have clicked on the link...

Yeah, I'd do Kirk + Nocioni for Kidd, but I ain't taking Hughes and Nocioni; I'd rather let Kidd expire

The trade on the Chicago board was was Kidd for Hughes + Hinrich + Gray

If that wasn't enough, they want to dump more salary on us with Nocioni for Stack.

tyrissius wrote:What do you guys think of how kidd played in dallas? is there any hope for next year?

on the chicago board there's a discussion about dealing kirk/nocioni for kidd, weigh in
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

I like the false advertising then. always look at the details.

I would do a Kirk/Nocioni for Kidd swap in a heartbeat

Of course!

With Kidd poor showing with the Mavs, age and declining skills, I doubt the Mavs can get the same package as they did to get him.

The team that show a lot of interest with Kidd before the deadline is Portland. The Blazers has the young pieces and if I'm Cuban, I'll try to work out a trade before Kidds value go down, and besides, Cuban said that he will give him a big pay for an extension and it will be wise to move him to avoid the contract that will affect the Mavs payroll, and it will be even more hard to trade him because of it.

JES12 wrote:LOL, all the responces here must not have clicked on the link...

Yeah, I'd do Kirk + Nocioni for Kidd, but I ain't taking Hughes and Nocioni; I'd rather let Kidd expire

The trade on the Chicago board was was Kidd for Hughes + Hinrich + Gray

If that wasn't enough, they want to dump more salary on us with Nocioni for Stack.

The original trade proposition was Nocioni/Hinrich/Hughes for Stackhouse/Kidd. Nocioni is an upgrade over Stackhouse (plus he's younger). Hinrich might actually flourish out in Dallas since combo guards like Jason Terry and Devin Harris have success on that team. Hughes sucks, but his contract expires the same time Stackhouse's does (so it's not like Dallas is getting a huge long term contract of dead weight with more years than Stackhouse's).

The reason why Hughes is included is to make the salaries work. Noc + Hinrich for Kidd isn't valid. From what I can see, this trade can help both teams (Chicago clearing cap space for a rebuild and Dallas getting some roleplayers to reload for another playoff run).

catalyst wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I like the false advertising then. always look at the details.

feel free to read beyond the first post. some posters countered with hinrich/nocioni for kidd or hinrich for jhow

you're acting like i'm deviously trying to sell a product. its a discussion, and i presented the scenario that i thought would be more possible. if you want to talk about the deal including hughes, that is also fine.

No way we're taking hughes in any kind of trade.
Though I think kidd is washed up and would like to see him gone, I think we have enough very bad contracts.

Pointguard01 wrote:I'd do that trade probably. It gives us Nocioni, who is a perfect backup SF/PF, which would allow us to trade Bass since his role would be dimminished anymore.

Maybe Stack/Howard/Bass for Redd/Mason?

Use the complete MLE on a backup C and we'd be looking solid, I guess.

G- Hinrich / Terry
G- Redd / Terry
F- Mason / Nocioni
F- Dirk /Nocioni
C- Damp / MLE

No way we should let go of bass. He was the 3rd best player on our team behind JET and Dirk in the series. He's what only 23, he's one we need to focus on building around and developing. He's an animal.

Henry Turner wrote:No way we're taking hughes in any kind of trade.
Though I think kidd is washed up and would like to see him gone, I think we have enough very bad contracts.

What if the Bulls would be willing to include a pick and 3m$, or sign and trade even another valuable player to Dallas, like Duhon in order to use his Base year compensation to make things work (thus, you won't lose your MLE).

For instance:

The Dallas Mavericks receive: Larry Hughes, Kirk Hinrich, Andres Nocioni, Aaron Gray, CHI 2009 1st-round pick (unprotected), 3m$ cash

The Dallas Mavericks trade: Jason Kidd, Jerry Stackhouse

fisher wrote:The original trade proposition was Nocioni/Hinrich/Hughes for Stackhouse/Kidd. Nocioni is an upgrade over Stackhouse (plus he's younger). Hinrich might actually flourish out in Dallas since combo guards like Jason Terry and Devin Harris have success on that team. Hughes sucks, but his contract expires the same time Stackhouse's does (so it's not like Dallas is getting a huge long term contract of dead weight with more years than Stackhouse's).

The reason why Hughes is included is to make the salaries work. Noc + Hinrich for Kidd isn't valid. From what I can see, this trade can help both teams (Chicago clearing cap space for a rebuild and Dallas getting some roleplayers to reload for another playoff run).

Nocioni is on a long ass contract and overpaid. He is the next Luke Walton, Marco Jaric, Troy Murphy.

Stack is paid 9 mil next 2 years compared to 26 mil for Hughes, one of the only SGs I would not trade Stack for.

Hinrich may flurish, but he is still paid 38 mil over 4 years. That's a huge risk for a win now team when there is no guarantee he will revert back to his former self. It's okay to take that risk, but not if you are trading 100.5 mil of contracts for $30.3 mil.

And Kirk + Nocioni for Kidd is valid once the BYCs come off June 30th. Hughes is not needed and no way does Nocioni by real estate in dallas as we would trade him while he still has some value if that trade did go down.

Ray Allen Iverson wrote:What if the Bulls would be willing to include a pick and 3m$, or sign and trade even another valuable player to Dallas, like Duhon in order to use his Base year compensation to make things work (thus, you won't lose your MLE).

For instance:

The Dallas Mavericks receive: Larry Hughes, Kirk Hinrich, Andres Nocioni, Aaron Gray, CHI 2009 1st-round pick (unprotected), 3m$ cash

The Dallas Mavericks trade: Jason Kidd, Jerry Stackhouse

How 'bout no!

For starters, take Shaggy and Stack out. I have no interest in trading 9 mil of Stack for 36.5 mil of Shaggy, especially since it goes past summer 2010. No need for the Shaggy on a team lead by Dirk. And then switch Hughes to Gooden or include a 3 way where Gooden fetches you a pick and sends us an expiring...something like Snow & to us & Cle 1st to you.

JES12 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How 'bout no!

How 'bout

JES12 wrote:Where do I sign?

I know many people ore down on Kirk, but I think a change of scenery could do him good. Not as good as Kidd next year, but adding a young with potential like Gray and a tradeable asset like Shaggy would make up the difference.

Source

JES12 wrote:For starters, take Shaggy and Stack out. I have no interest in trading 9 mil of Stack for 36.5 mil of Shaggy, especially since it goes past summer 2010. No need for the Shaggy on a team lead by Dirk. And then switch Hughes to Gooden or include a 3 way where Gooden fetches you a pick and sends us an expiring...something like Snow & to us & Cle 1st to you.

Besides finance, what don't you like about this deal. Hinrich and Nocioni are prototypical Carlisle players, who will do what they are asked to do without the risk of complaining (whereas I am not sure about Kidd).