Is It Worth It?

[DDansby123]

Just a curiosity of mine, but with all the talk of rebuilding vs. retooling, I'm interested in everyone's responses to this question...

How would this team have to rank on paper versus the other WC teams for us to consider retooling worthwhile?

I ask because I don't see any way we could improve our roster and jump into the #1 ranking (on paper). In fact, I don't see much hope for getting above 4th or 5th this offseason. Now, even the 4th or 5th best team has a chance at a title if everything goes right. But is it worth it? Do you continue to retool even if you're only, say, 7th best on paper? What about 2nd or 3rd?

I can see both sides of the argument, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks.

[mavsfoty]

Basically I'm hoping for a team that remains competitve while preparing for the post-Dirk era.

[DDansby123]

Basically I'm hoping for a team that remains competitve while preparing for the post-Dirk era.

Two questions:

(1) What exactly is "competitive"? First-round exits? Second round?
(2) Are you OK with a long, drawn-out rebuilding process in the post-Dirk era?

[dirkforpres]

Had we not made the playoffs, I would say we should start rebuilding from the ground up... Because we did make the playoffs, and have already brought in a new coach, I say start building around Kidd, Dirk, and Bass and try to remain competitive while doing so over the next few years (until we get Damp, Kidd, etc.'s contracts off the payroll)

[JES12]

I would have been all for rebuilding if we had not traded our 2010 pick, but the way it is now, we have to go through a 2 year re-tool, but retool with short contracts.

I would trade Terry while he has some value (coming off the playoffs) and keep Howard while his value is low.

Maybe something like Terry for Bobby Jackson + Luther Head + #22. That way, our rebuilding process would be easier.

[dirkforpres]

I would have been all for rebuilding if we had not traded our 2010 pick, but the way it is now, we have to go through a 2 year re-tool, but retool with short contracts.

I would trade Terry while he has some value (coming off the playoffs) and keep Howard while his value is low.

Maybe something like Terry for Bobby Jackson + Luther Head + #22. That way, our rebuilding process would be easier.

That is awful... I wont trade JET in the same conference, let alone the same division... And even if we were to, I think we could ask for more than that.

[JES12]

That is awful... I wont trade JET in the same conference, let alone the same division... And even if we were to, I think we could ask for more than that.

Where else are you going to get more finacial freedom by summer 2010 and a young piece and/or a 1st rd pick?

[soulhunter]

I'd be happy with either extreme.

Either make some major moves to try and become a contender (legitimately)

or

Look to rebuild, and commit to it.

I don't see a whole lot o good in being a 5-8 seed and losing in the first round year-in-year-out. I'd prefer to either admit we don't have the pieces and blow it all up, or really really take some risks towards winning.

[dirkforpres]

-= original quote snipped =-

Where else are you going to get more finacial freedom by summer 2010 and a young piece and/or a 1st rd pick?

Theres gotta be somebody outside of our conference who can give up more than Bobby Jackson and a low 1st rounder for JET... Im thinking somewhere in the east like Chicago, Milwaukee, or Charlotte would all be better trading partners than Houston, especially if Dallas is trying the "rebuild, but remain competitive" style of things

[studcrackers]

the only thing keeping me from rebuilding is that 2010 unprotected pick, so id try and do all i can to surround talent for dirk until that contract expires b/c about all our contracts expire at the same time and you can completely rebuild. plus i dont see but the same 4 teams competing year in and year out for the next 8 or so years (utah, portland, nawlins and lakers and maybe seattle or if houston could stay healthy)

[dirtyfilthynasty]

You know me. I'm always up for an exciting trade but I don't think the Mavs are as far off as you guys.

I honestly think that the Mavs would have beat the Hornets if Howard had been average and had his head in the game. The Spurs series would have been 50/50 with each game coming down to the last 5 minutes. I think we would have beaten the Rockets and the Jazz but would have had problems with Phoenix and would have lost to the Lakers.

If the Mavericks get a taller shooting guard who can average 12-15 points a game while playing good defense (possibly Wright) and get good series from their top players, I think they can be a top 3 team easily now.

Whether you rebuild or retool though, I think the Lakers have the West wrapped up for a while.

[Deus]

I don't see the team moving up anytime soon with the players we have now. Carlisle isn't going to become a miracle worker and suddenly the team is a 60 win team again. The Mavs will get worse and win 45 games next season if they stand pat.

I say start rebuilding now. Trade all excess contract fat like Terry, Josh, and Damp. Unfortunately we'll have to wait until next year for Kidd's contract to expire. Then next summer start again with a fresh new look. Possibly even a top 10 pick in the draft if the Mavs win only 20-25 games this upcoming season.

None of this is going to happen though. Carlisle is here to try and win now. If Cuban thinks this team still has a chance he's dellusional.

[Dirkenstien41]

I say start rebuilding now. Then next summer start again with a fresh new look. Possibly even a top 10 pick in the draft if the Mavs win only 20-25 games this upcoming season.

None of this is going to happen though. Carlisle is here to try and win now. If Cuban thinks this team still has a chance he's dellusional.

So you want to start rebuilding now and go through an awful season next season just to waste another prime year for Dirk?

Idiotic.

This team still has the ability to be something special. We just need to make a few moves and we're right back in the hunt.

[mavsfoty]

-= original quote snipped =-



Two questions:

(1) What exactly is "competitive"? First-round exits? Second round?
(2) Are you OK with a long, drawn-out rebuilding process in the post-Dirk era?

Basically a team that is fun to watch and isn't going to loss 50 but has a shot at winning 50. Kind of like the recent Lakers.... A couple of early exits but built a solid core and bench. I know the Kidd trade cost us some picks but we did gain Kidd's giant expiring.

I think if we can start getting some young talent and some cap flexiblity via trades or free agency then the drop won't be like it was in the 90's.

[Darren]

Value-wise, we'll be better off retool for a year or 2 when everybody but JET become expiring contract again. In this way, we won't lose a top pick to NJN.

With Carlisie as new head coach, Mark Cuban is looking to compete for at least one more year. You know, Rick is great coach at his first year. Like Avery, he's too rigid to get along with players for long.

By then, Mark will sell the team, I guess.

[DDansby123]

It sounds to me like most of you are OK with the Mavs continuing to perform as they have for the past 7 or 8 years: a talented team that, depending on matchups and timing, could finish anywhere from the 1st to 8th seed in the regular season and be eliminated anywhere from the first round to the Finals...but that probably isn't going to be the clear-cut title favorite any year.

Personally, all the failures of this core group have gotten to me, and I'm tired of the team described above. I can understand those of you who aren't tired of it, but that's just my opinion. To me, this team needs a major, major shakeup personnel-wise, if only for the fact that it clearly isn't up to snuff mentally...so even if we look good paper, the likelihood is that we fall flat in the playoffs.

The biggest issue in all of this is Dirk. He'll be 30 at the start of next season and 33 when his contract is up. Personally, I don't want to start a rebuilding process around a 33-year-old jumpshooter, so that leaves us starting from scratch with mid-first draft picks and a ton of cap space. To me, rebuilding from there will be much, much more difficult than rebuilding now by trading Dirk.

[mavsfoty]

It sounds to me like most of you are OK with the Mavs continuing to perform as they have for the past 7 or 8 years: a talented team that, depending on matchups and timing, could finish anywhere from the 1st to 8th seed in the regular season and be eliminated anywhere from the first round to the Finals...but that probably isn't going to be the clear-cut title favorite any year.

Personally, all the failures of this core group have gotten to me, and I'm tired of the team described above. I can understand those of you who aren't tired of it, but that's just my opinion. To me, this team needs a major, major shakeup personnel-wise, if only for the fact that it clearly isn't up to snuff mentally...so even if we look good paper, the likelihood is that we fall flat in the playoffs.

The biggest issue in all of this is Dirk. He'll be 30 at the start of next season and 33 when his contract is up. Personally, I don't want to start a rebuilding process around a 33-year-old jumpshooter, so that leaves us starting from scratch with mid-first draft picks and a ton of cap space. To me, rebuilding from there will be much, much more difficult than rebuilding now by trading Dirk.

I agree with you and understand your frustration. I think the past three seasons have beaten down alot of Mavericks fans. We've gone from a team with a great core along with a bright future to what we are now.

I think the FO got enamored and sort of blinded with certain players and ideals and forget to think long term. I think the time to rebuild will be when some of the 03 Draft Class start to become FA's again (Bosh, LBJ, etc.)

[sweet daddy]

DDan, there isn't a clear-cut title favorite every year, and when there is one, it's almost always the team that won it last year. Point is, the Mavs will never ever be the clear-cut title favorite until they win that first championship.

I'm pissed because I think we were on the way there. But a little early success 2 years ago fooled management into thinking we were ready to win. Frankly, I was with them, I thought we were closer than we were. That's excusable ... I'm a fan, not an NBA front office executive. They are paid to know better.

So, if we had continued to slowly resolve our deficiencies (size in the backcourt, a low post threat, etc.), we'd have Dirk in his prime as the anchor of a team with lots of playoff experience that didn't have an easy weakness for playoff teams to exploit. Instead, look at what we're talking about now.

My biggest fear isn't Dirk, or how long before his window has passed. My fear is that our FO doesn't know how to assemble a team that has the total package.

[Pointguard01]

Im in shock.

What is the point of being that team that barely gets into the playoffs but would be happy with just getting to the second round. That doesnt make us any better, its not like we are a young team gaining experience, but instead, we are just wasting years. I'd much rather sacrifice everything and try to win NOW, that be just good, and start a slow rebuilidng process while remaining competitive.

I personally am completely sold on the idea of rebuilding. Some are worried about not getting that 2010 pick, but I think this can be a quick rebuilding move. We are in perfect position to rebuild now. We have players with value (Dirk & Howard) and good role players that teams looking to compete would want in a package with Dirk or Howard, considiering they would be looking to compete by aquiring them.

Trade.....

Dirk + Terry for Marion + Blount + Pick
Marion + Blount for Marubry + Lee + Future Pick
Howard + Damp + Stack for Nesterovic + Bargnani + Ford + Future Pick

You then have Marbury, Nesterovic, Kidd all coming off the books as huge expiring contracts. We have some young players like Miami's pick, Bargnani, Lee to go along with Bass and future picks. We would have no contracts on our books next offseason, so we could look to sign some key free agents if we wanted, and we'd also get a top 5 pick in all liklihood with this team.

Depending on what we draft we can look to package Ford, Barganai, Badd or Lee, whoever isnt longterm fits here to get something we need. And there are plenty of other options with teams to trade with and swap out: Portland has LaFrentz's contract, Cleveland has Szczerbiak's contract, ect.

[Teffer10]

I can't agree with those who think we should be a 50 win team and rebuild at the same time. That is a recipe for being mediocre at best for the next decade.

The Mavs either have to make extremely aggressive moves this off season to help Dirk, or trade him and start the rebuilding process.

My opinion is to attempt to make a blockbuster trade early in the off season and if they can't vastly improve this team through a trade, start shopping Dirk in the latter part of the summer.

This current team has no business calling itself a legit contender and signing a FA is not going to change that. Trading Terry and Stack would be an improvement to the team but not enough to get us the assets that we desparately need.

Right now, rebuilding is the most logical approach to take since we have a tremendous trade piece in Dirk and no realistic means to procure the proper players to help him.