RealGM

Dirk and Gasol both have three years left. Gasol makes about three mill less each year. So Mavs save almost 10 mill by rolling with Gasol instead of Dirk. You could make the arguement that Gasol is the more efficient player than Dirk.

Odom is an expiring deal. By contrast, Terry is FAR from expiring. Replacing Terry with Odom saves th Mavs over 30 mill assuming they do not resign Odom. Mavs could even package Odom in deadline deal for a "real keeper". Jones fills cap space.

In a nutshell, Mavs trade Dirk for Gasol and really don't lose that much. Gasol plays close to the basket and has a better FG%. Dirk is the better shooter. They are equal rebounders and defensive players.

The real onus fro this deal is ridding themselves of Terry's contract (a near impossible feat). Odom will get significant minutes but should be used to get an elite player at the deadline or simply let go to preserve space for 2010.

Mavs look someting like this:
PG - Kidd
SG - Stackhouse
C - Gasol
PF - Odom
SF - Howard

G - Barea
G - Foster
C - Dampier/Diop
F - Bass
F - Green

Is Dirk that much better than Gasol that the Mavs should pass on the opprtunity to let Terry go and free up oodles of cap space?

Personally I don't think Mavs lose that much if any with Gasol.

Okay now shoot me down I've got a vest on.

LOL!

Oh, your serious.

ALL HAIL wrote: You could make the arguement that Gasol is the more efficient player than Dirk.

...

In a nutshell, Mavs trade Dirk for Gasol and really don't lose that much.
...

wow, you really believe that, dont you?
what a waste of post

you must be a laker fan lol.

dirk is way better then gasol at everything even ping pong.

Pau's Career -- 503 497 35.4 0.513 0.227 0.733 2.5 6.1 8.6 3.1 0.5 1.8 2.55 2.40 18.8
Dirk's Career -- 758 734 36.5 0.471 0.379 0.870 1.3 7.3 8.6 2.7 0.9 1.0 1.93 2.60 22.4

Rebounds -- Even 8.6
FG% -- Pau 51%
Assists -- Pau 3.1
Scoring -- Dirk 22.4
Blocks -- Pau 1.8
Steals -- Dirk .9
3FG% -- Dirk 38%

Dirk gets WAY more hype so I understand people thinking that he is WAY better than Gasol but in fact it is a lot closer than most people think.

Dirk is better than Gasol cuz Dirk makes Pau his biatch everythime they play each other....and Pau never has been able to carry a team on his shoulders the way Dirk does and Pau never takes over in the 4th the way Dirk does, Gasol has never fought for rebounds with 2 centers that avg a reb every 3 minutes along with the 3rd best rebounding SF in the league and now, the best rebounding PG in the league.....

I could go on, but why?


STFU you troll!

Oh, BTW, You totally f'd your credibility with this statment:

"The real onus fro this deal is ridding themselves of Terry's contract (a near impossible feat)."

He won a world championship without entering the court. Come on. What're you doing?
It's never a retool nor rebuild plan. Why should we even think about it?

Pau and Lamar both have a trouble in the brain. Both are comparable to Antoine Walker.
Worthless. I won't trade JET for Odom. He's not particularly good at anything.
His IQ is questionable. Pau stops the offense to allow a steal from Rondo at low post.

Neither of them deserves a Josh Howard. Why do you insert our best player in such a deal.

You all are really overating Dirk. The Mavs have lost in the first round for two years not because of the PG position or lack of talent. They lost because Dirk is overated. Dirk does not take over games when it counts. The Mavs should have a couple of titles. Miami beat them because Dirk chose to be a bystander. They lost against GS because Dirk chose to be a bystander.

I really don't think a championship can be won with Dirk as your best player. Instead of being so emotional. Show me, if you can, how Nowitzki is head and shoulders above Gasol. By the numbers, they are pretty even. Dirk like I said gets the hype because he's played on better teams but how is he better.

Gasol stunk up the Finals but Dirk lost to the eighth seed in his MVP year.

Dirk is a damn good shooter, but he's not that much better than Gasol.

Prove me wrong. Don't get emotional. Jeez!

And you way over-rate Gasol.

Gasol gets sweeped by Dirk in the playoffs. Not because of his team-mates, because Gasol dets dominated by Dirk's Defense....yeah that's right...Dirk's defense!

And bringing up past series where Stern and Nellie intefered are both irrelivent. And this year, it was the PG!

By the numbers, Kevin Martin is not a big drop off at all to Kobe Bryant!

So why don't you prove me wrong!

ALL HAIL wrote:You all are really overating Dirk. The Mavs have lost in the first round for two years not because of the PG position or lack of talent. They lost because Dirk is overated. Dirk does not take over games when it counts. The Mavs should have a couple of titles. Miami beat them because Dirk chose to be a bystander. They lost against GS because Dirk chose to be a bystander.

I really don't think a championship can be won with Dirk as your best player. Instead of being so emotional. Show me, if you can, how Nowitzki is head and shoulders above Gasol. By the numbers, they are pretty even. Dirk like I said gets the hype because he's played on better teams but how is he better.

Gasol stunk up the Finals but Dirk lost to the eighth seed in his MVP year.

Dirk is a damn good shooter, but he's not that much better than Gasol.

Prove me wrong. Don't get emotional. Jeez!

Dirk took a team to the Finals, no other way around that. He single-handedly killed the Suns, he got them past the Spurs, Pau Gasol never lead his team to JACK ****. The Mavericks haven't run in an offense that fits Kidd, it's not Kidd, it's not Dirk, it's the way the offense was run. Let me see Pau Gasol score 50 in a Playoff game. Hell, let me see him score 30. Dirk is not the problem with this team. The Heat wouldn't have beaten us without a little extra help from the angels above (the guys in black and white stripes). Dirk has been consistently good in the regular season, he choked off the GSW series, but he just hasn't had enough support on this team.

If you can't handle to look at things objectively, and see that Dirk is clearly better than Pau, then you might as well just let this topic die, because it's a losing effort, especially in a Mavericks forum.

EDIT: INSTEAD of us trying to prove YOU wrong, prove yourself RIGHT, because we really don't have to listen to you, this is our forum, we have nothing to prove to anyone else.

Good post. Let me be clear. I think Dirk is better, just not that much better. If Dirk is a ten ,hypothetically of course, than Gasol is a nine. Gasol IMO is not that far behind Dirk.

On the contrary, I feel I'm being very objective. I think Gasol and Dirk are soft and can never be the best player on a championship team. Dirk had the opportunity to prove me otherwise but regardless of the refs (and I'd be the first to admit the refs were giving Wade calls left and right) Dirk showed once again that when it's time to carry this team and assert his will on this team as the leader he falls short. Not everytime, most times. Stackhouse was closer to being that guy for the Mavs than Dirk. I just wish he'd played for the Mavs at 25.

Dirk is good but not an elite player. He's one of the best shooters in the game but has not developed any real semblance of a post game. That's his fault. GS was guarding him with players half his size (slight exagerration) and Dirk rarely backed them in. Hell even Gasol has proven he can abuse players in the post especially if they're smaller.

If you replace Dirk with Gasol you win a few less games maybe 5 TOPS. The dropoff to me is not that signicant. I merely suggested the trade because the Mavs IMO need more of a post threat and the Lakers with Bynum could probably use more of a shooting threat. I know he's your best player. I think Cuban has done a good job surrounding him with talent especially after Avery came on board.

Dirk and Gasol continue to be very similiar players with regard to overall production with Dirk getting the slight edge.

Would you trade Kobe (best player) and Luke Walton (longest contract, though no where near as good as Terry) for Kevin Martin (assuming Kobe and Martin are near the same age) and Mikki Moore just to dump Luke? Or as you say, "the real onus fro this deal is ridding themselves of Walton's contract (a near impossible feat)."

When you can say yes to that, then we will cut you some slack...

Till then, if Dirk is a 10, Gasol is a 6 and at best, 6.5. (no player that is only effective as the 3rd option gets past 7).

ALL HAIL wrote:If you replace Dirk with Gasol you win a few less games maybe 5 TOPS.

Your dillusional! We make that trade and we are eaisly in the lotto and Cuban would make the Memphis Grizzlies owner feel better about the Gasol trade.

ALL HAIL wrote:the Lakers with Bynum could probably use more of a shooting threat.

Blount, Miller and Murphy are all available.

ALL HAIL wrote:I think Cuban has done a good job surrounding him with talent especially after Avery came on board.

Cuban as not done any good moves besides signing Bass since Avery jumped on board. The last good move was drafting Harris, but that was in the Nellie era.

ALL HAIL wrote:Dirk and Gasol continue to be very similiar players with regard to overall production with Dirk getting the slight edge.

Like I said, you are dillusional. Just watch the Memphis games (any year) where Gasol was the #1 option and see how far he got compared to Dirk as the #1 option.

If you're going to say that Kobe is only a notch better than Kevin Martin as I am saying Dirk is only a notch better than Gasol you have got to break down their career statistical comparison as I did for Gasol and DIrk. If not then what you are saying is mere conjecture. It sounds good and witty I must admit but lacks depth and density.

And if your point is in fact proven that Kobe is only slightly better than K. Martin then to be more realistic you would have to include Radman (6 mill per) and Luke Walton (4 mill per) to equal the savings that the MAvs will incur by losing Terry's 10 mill per contract.

And again, if your point is proven that Kobe is a only a notch better than K. Martin, contextually speaking, if the Lakers were coming off a loss in the Finals (they are) coupled with a first round exit to the eighth seed and an overall feeling that they were going in the wrong direction, I would by all means strongly consider dumping Kobe with Radman and Walton to acquire K. MArtin (who according to you, by the career numbers is only slightly less of a player than Kobe and a decent expiring contract like Odom's.

I'd really like to see the career statistical comparison of the two.

Troy Murphy is a good fit he is immovable however if it doesn't work out however.

Your wrong about Cuban's signings though. The Mavs should have won the title. They're team was assembled well. During the Nellie years they were poorly constructed. Dirk is soft and doesn't rebound consistently. Avery and Cuban realized that they needed to put Dirk next very physical big men like Dampier and Diop. Dampier makes a lot of money but he and Diop are extremely important to balance out Dirk's soft finesse game. Also, bringing in defensive role players like Buckner were vitally important to changing the culture of no defense in Dallas. Avery and Cuban transformed this team with smart personnel moves. This is why Cuban was so quick to get Diop back. He knows he needs a constant physical presence next to Dirk to balance Dirk's softness.

ALL HAIL wrote:If you're going to say that Kobe is only a notch better than Kevin Martin as I am saying Dirk is only a notch better than Gasol you have got to break down their career statistical comparison as I did for Gasol and DIrk..

No I don't! Only the most recent year or two matters.
By that statement, Alonzo Mourning >>>> Bynum

Mourning: 838 686 31.0 0.527 0.247 0.692 2.6 5.9 8.5 1.1 0.5 2.8 2.64 3.40 17.1
Bynum: 163 78 19.3 0.571 0.000 0.649 1.7 3.9 5.6 1.0 0.2 1.3 1.13 2.50 7.2

And you would be an idiot to believe that.

And if your point is in fact proven that Kobe is only slightly better than K. Martin then to be more realistic you would have to include Radman (6 mill per) and Luke Walton (4 mill per) to equal the savings that the MAvs will incur by losing Terry's 10 mill per contract.

No, I don't have to use exact $ amounts, because unlike Radman and Walton, Terry earns his money. There is no need to dump him, unlike Walkton and Radman. In addition, Terry has 33.3 mil guaranteed (5.6 mil of his last year is not guaranteed) vs 45.4 mil on your two players.

I would by all means strongly consider dumping Kobe with Radman and Walton to acquire K. MArtin (who according to you, by the career numbers is only slightly less of a player than Kobe and a decent expiring contract like Odom's.

By your exact wording, Kobe is a dump, Dir is a loss. And of course you would because in real like, Martin is 5 years younger than Kobe (vs. 2 yr diff on Dirk/Gasol) and Kobe has caused problem after problem in LA and Dirk has done nothing but posative things in Dallas.

Besides, Odom would have absolutly ZERO valu to a lotto bound team, which we will be if we made this trade; Kwame Brown would be just as good.

Fine dude. Just compare the last three years then. That's fine. Also, according to many on this board Terry is dead weight. Obviously you feel differently. I think we can both agree that his production does not equate to his 10 mill a year salary for the next four years (maybe three-correct me if I'm wrong).

ALL HAIL wrote:Your wrong about Cuban's signings though. The Mavs should have won the title. They're team was assembled well. During the Nellie years they were poorly constructed. Dirk is soft and doesn't rebound consistently. Avery and Cuban realized that they needed to put Dirk next very physical big men like Dampier and Diop. Dampier makes a lot of money but he and Diop are extremely important to balance out Dirk's soft finesse game. Also, bringing in defensive role players like Buckner were vitally important to changing the culture of no defense in Dallas. Avery and Cuban transformed this team with smart personnel moves. This is why Cuban was so quick to get Diop back. He knows he needs a constant physical presence next to Dirk to balance Dirk's softness.

1) Dampier was before Avery. You have a point on Diop, though.
2) Avery never used, hated and traded Marquis Daniels, Greg Buckner and Trenton Hassell. Never even gave them a chance. You are dead wrong.
3) Keeping Avery here as long as he did was a bad move in itself.
4) Resigning Stackhouse was a mistake. Trading Harris for Kidd was a mistake. Allowing Juwan Howard to even be in a mavs uniform was a mistake. Trading all our draft picks was a mistake. Paying Terry and Dampier by about 2-3 mil more than what they are worth was a mistake. Not making moves to help this team like signing Posey, MoPete, etc. was a mistake.

Don't act like you know anything about this team when you clearly don't!

ALL HAIL wrote:Fine dude. Just compare the last three years then. That's fine. Also, according to many on this board Terry is dead weight. Obviously you feel differently. I think we can both agree that his production does not equate to his 10 mill a year salary for the next four years (maybe three-correct me if I'm wrong).

Hold on a minute....

You are telling me that an injury free, clutch player that has avg over 15 PPG almost his entire career, shoots over 45% from the field and over 40% from 3 annually and amoung the top 10 in 3pt % and 3 pt made annually and is the heart of the team, is willing to learn and play any role (PG, SG, 6th man) for the betterment of the team, 5+ APG as PG and 3+ ASP as SG and shows no sign of slowing down is not worth 10 mil?

Uh oh, Someone needs to tell Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Mike Bibby, Corey Maggetter, Ron Artest and almost any NBA player not on a rookie contract that they are worth about 6-7 mil and are overpaid!